Hands controlled pivot....or pivot controlled hands?

[mantan]

I have always been a 'hands along for the ride' guy.....

 

But think i may have it backwards.

 

What say you?

[glk]

imo, they need to work together.   Too much dominance of either leads to issues.    Hands too in or out pivot reacts.    Pivots leads too much or trails ( or too flat it too steep )then arms react.
 

once out of synch then something has to happen to get them back together and that can be difficult if not impossible given the short duration of a swing.

 

Someone will feel hands lead ,some pivot ,and some neither.   We’re all different.

Edited April 3, 2021 by glk

[naj959]

11 minutes ago, glk said:

imo, they need to work together.   Too much dominance of either leads to issues.    Hands too in or out pivot reacts.    Pivots leads too much or trails ( or too flat it too steep )then arms react.
 

once out of synch then something has to happen to get them back together and that can be difficult if not impossible given the short duration of a swing.

 

Someone will feel hands lead ,some pivot ,and some neither.   We’re all different.

Excellent post! I've been back and forth between both camps and eventually one gets so out of pace with the other that ball striking really starts to suffer. I think constant monitoring and finding the middle is the key.

[hoganfan924]

I've tried both over the years, and pivot controlled hands always works much better for me.  Hands controlled results in a lot more mishits and less power, but that doesn't mean that I don't work on arm structure, directing my hands, or working on wrist angles/loading & unloading.  I do, but clubhead stability and clubface control are more consistent when the pivot's in charge, for me.  Key for me is making sure the arm swing stays in synch with the shoulder turn, and that arms don't overrun in the backswing.  Then I can pivot as fast as I want in the downswing and get good results.

Edited April 3, 2021 by hoganfan924
added information

[MonteScheinblum]

If you make a cake with sugar and no flour, you have sludge.  If you make it with all flour and no sugar, you have a beautiful thing that tastes like styrofoam.

 

Making these things mutually exclusive is an epic fail in the long run.

[tthomasgolfer605]

I prefer the grip it and sip it technique these days. 

[Zitlow]

If I told you what Mike Austin said I'd get thrown off the forum for wrong think. lol

[David C]

It’s a synergy that has to be timed.

[nlk10010]

Or, you could use neither: Swingless Golf Club.

 

Recognizing that you need both body and arms does not, IMO, preclude the use of drills that emphasize one or the other. Some of us (e.g. me and hoganfan924) find our tendency is to hit with the arms and neglect the rotation aspect. I've come across some videos from Rick Woodson (from ten years ago) in which he suggests a drill that's supposed to make you feel like you're "hitting the ball with the pivot".  It has really helped me complete my rotation and synch the body and arms correctly, but it FEELS like I'm driving the entire swing with my pivot.

Edited April 7, 2021 by nlk10010

[stingerfade]

8 minutes ago, nlk10010 said:

Or, you could use neither: Swingless Golf Club.

 

Recognizing that you need both body and arms does not, IMO, preclude the use of drills that emphasize one or the other. Some of us (e.g. me and hoganfan924) find our tendency is to hit with the arms and neglect the rotation aspect. I've come across some videos from Rick Woodson (from ten years ago) in which he suggests a drill that's supposed to make you feel like you're "hitting the ball with the pivot".  It has really helped me complete my rotation and synch the body and arms correctly, but it FEELS like I'm driving the entire swing with my pivot.

Link?

[nlk10010]

Sorry, here you go: Rick Woodson: "Hit and Hold" Drill.

 

I'm not (nor is he) claiming this is something no one has ever seen before, I just like his approach and his explanation.

[hoganfan924]

5 hours ago, nlk10010 said:

Or, you could use neither: Swingless Golf Club.

 

Recognizing that you need both body and arms does not, IMO, preclude the use of drills that emphasize one or the other. Some of us (e.g. me and hoganfan924) find our tendency is to hit with the arms and neglect the rotation aspect. I've come across some videos from Rick Woodson (from ten years ago) in which he suggests a drill that's supposed to make you feel like you're "hitting the ball with the pivot".  It has really helped me complete my rotation and synch the body and arms correctly, but it FEELS like I'm driving the entire swing with my pivot.

 

I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote.  My swing is pivot driven, is very rotational, and has been for at least 12 years, but that doesn't mean my arms are just noodles along for the ride.  they have structure, and I've worked hard over many years to ensure that they're synched up with my pivot, rather than running off and getting too far behind me in transition.

[nlk10010]

11 hours ago, hoganfan924 said:

 

I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote.  My swing is pivot driven, is very rotational, and has been for at least 12 years, but that doesn't mean my arms are just noodles along for the ride.  they have structure, and I've worked hard over many years to ensure that they're synched up with my pivot, rather than running off and getting too far behind me in transition.

Sorry if I did, I wasn't saying (or implying) your arms were noodles. My inference from what you said was that you might be like me; i.e. have to FEEL more of the pivot and less of your arms in order to end up with a structured, "synched up" swing. If I don't concentrate on "rotate, rotate, rotate" I will end up stalling and flipping, finishing up with my arms hitting at the ball and swinging past my body.

[me05501]

Check out this vid starting around 7:00. 

 

 

[mantan]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:54 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

If you make a cake with sugar and no flour, you have sludge.  If you make it with all flour and no sugar, you have a beautiful thing that tastes like styrofoam.

 

Making these things mutually exclusive is an epic fail in the long run.

 

Hard headed. It literally took a month for this to click. I've always been a 'hips driven golf swing' with the hands along for the ride. I've played some decent golf, but not as consistent and it felt like I wasn't in control. 

 

I started combining the two. Same good pivot elements, but also feel like I'm bringing the club back with my right forearm and letting the arms provide the power along with the pivot on the downswing. The result has felt a LOT more consistent and in control.

Edited May 8, 2021 by mantan

[indianagolf2]

Thats the 9 to 3 swing slicefixer in the vid

[Millbrook]

On 4/5/2021 at 5:26 PM, Zitlow said:

If I told you what Mike Austin said I'd get thrown off the forum for wrong think. lol

 

Please do tell, I enjoy your 'wrong think' contributions.