Did Golfers Of Yesteryear Have It Tougher?

[khalespace]

Pro golfers of any era have the best equipment and courses available for them. Don't feel bad for Bobby Jones or Jack Niklaus. 50 years later someone will ask the same questions.

[Shilgy]

1 minute ago, RobotDoctor said:

You might want to practice a little more. The impact pattern is the size of a quarter.  😉

 

Great impact area!!!

Not mine and wish it was!  As I recall it is 10 hits with a tour pro.

[RobotDoctor]

Just now, Shilgy said:

Not mine and wish it was!  As I recall it is 10 hits with a tour pro.

Lol.  Now do I have to teach you to simply say "Thank you" and go along your merry way?  You could have built legendary status with that one.  😁😁😁

[Shilgy]

4 minutes ago, RobotDoctor said:

Lol.  Now do I have to teach you to simply say "Thank you" and go along your merry way?  You could have built legendary status with that one.  😁😁😁

Thank you🍻

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

How many strokes per round does he gain on that guy off the tee? #Workhardestforthelargestgains

 

Doesn't matter who, it matters where.  BDC is .328 strokes better off the tee than the guy in second place.

 

So he has barely cleared as much from the second best player in SG-T2G as he has to gain to be the best in SG-Putting.

 

#meatonthebone #lowhangingfruit

 

Even still, it isn't just his putting.  He is 53 in sg-approach.  For a guy who is driving it significantly farther than most of the field he should be killing that.

[Soloman1]

I remember the days when exercise was bending over on the first tee to pick up your tee, your cigarette and your styrofoam cup of Dunkin' Donuts coffee to get the cobwebs out from the night before.

 

And then there were beauties like this:

 

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Doesn't matter who, it matters where.  BDC is .328 strokes better off the tee than the guy in second place.

 

So he has barely cleared as much from the second best player in SG-T2G as he has to gain to be the best in SG-Putting.

 

#meatonthebone #lowhangingfruit

 

Even still, it isn't just his putting.  He is 53 in sg-approach.  For a guy who is driving it significantly farther than most of the field he should be killing that.

Lol, that’s not how that works.  He gets the strokes gained from the drive….what he does from the closer spot is calculated by others playing from the same distance.  He doesn’t double dip his SG and get compared to other approach shots on the same hole that are from further away.

 

I believe from interviews he calls his game still a work in progress, and is #7 in the world hole he works at it.

 

At least he’s not one of the complacent guys everyone complains about.

[ghostrider]

Geibergers 59 with old equipment and really with much poorer fairways and greens is really amazing.

[Soloman1]

3 hours ago, ghostrider said:

Geibergers 59 with old equipment and really with much poorer fairways and greens is really amazing.

True. The course was over 7,000 yards with balata, persimmon and blades.

 

Dave Stockton was his playing partner. He said that he called his wife and said that he played pretty well, but the guy he played with beat him by 13 shots…

[farmer]

Geiberger shot that 59 in Memphis, in June, without the benefit of modern fabrics.  Guarantee that his shirt was like a towel by the end of the day.

[bladehunter]

20 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

I saw an interview somewhere with Tiger he said that he took his old Cobra driver that he won the '97 Masters with to the range.   He said he "couldn't hit it" he hit his current 3 wood farther.  Not that he couldn't really hit it, just that he couldn't make it perform with is aging body, modern balls, on modern tour distance courses.  Augusta National back then was around 6800 yards I believe.  But yes, those old clubs were not that hard to hit, you just had to hit them close to the sweetspot, if not it got ugly real quick.  Pros don't have the sweetspot issue like a 25 handicap.  I had an old Wilson laminated 3 wood with my first set that I could crush, I only wish I could hit my modern 3 wood like I could hit that club with my 18 year old body.  🙂

I just built a 975d with an s400u steel shaft and a tiny amount of tip trim.  Not rebar at all but heavy.  I can barely elevate it at 118 mph .  It may however roll 80 yards.  Not on course yet.  But it’s not even close to the callaway epic speed head I’m hitting.  It took more skill to play pre 2000. I’m sorry. It just did.  They’re  strong and long now. And many could have been good back then. But it’s easier today.  That’s a huge part of the amount of talent we see get a card now.  

[bladehunter]

19 hours ago, oikos1 said:

What?  Mishits don't happen?

They do , they just now fly 310 down the right rough line. 

[dlygrisse]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

They do , they just now fly 310 down the right rough line. 

I remember people playing Bubba Watson type of slices and hooks back then, I myself the first year I played, hit a 40 yard slice around the course on occasion.  I could not hit that shot today no matter how much I tried.  

[oikos1]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

They do , they just now fly 310 down the right rough line. 

Not always:

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/tour-news/watch-bryson-dechambeau-hits-46-yard-drive-225296  😁

 

But I fully acknowledge that technological equipment changes have changed the game.  And that everyone on this board has benefited form them in one way or another.

 

For those who say equipment has made the game easier, there isn't much talk about how agronomy has made the game more difficult.  A pro will score better with soft and slow greens.  Watch a few Shell matches and it's quite evident the ball stopping short iron darts and short roll outs on approaches.  The "golfers of yesteryear" definitely had it easier with approach shots and green side chips and pitches.

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Not always:

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/tour-news/watch-bryson-dechambeau-hits-46-yard-drive-225296  😁

 

But I fully acknowledge that technological equipment changes have changed the game.  And that everyone on this board has benefited form them in one way or another.

 

For those who say equipment has made the game easier, there isn't much talk about how agronomy has made the game more difficult.  A pro will score better with soft and slow greens.  Watch a few Shell matches and it's quite evident the ball stopping short iron darts and short roll outs on approaches.  The "golfers of yesteryear" definitely had it easier with approach shots and green side chips and pitches.

That’s a fair point. It’s truly just two different games.  I’d like to rename todays game …. Just not sure what to call it. 

[golfday]

Players unquestionably have it easier financially and travel wise. Hotels are more comfortable, the money has made air (sometimes private) travel more attainable, tournaments provide courtesy cars and nice food, etc. Purse money has grown significantly making probably putting less stress on the players to perform (however, if you lose your card you lose your card). I think that alone is enough to say it's easier today. However in every other regard, I'm not so sure. 

 

Op mentioned pyschologists, physios, etc. as proof they have it easier - in a way I'd say that's proof that it's harder. These days you have to do everything possible, and pay for it, to be competitive. Sure there are still some guys not doing that, but the number is decreasing, and those guys aren't top guys. The top guys now are searching for and trying everything possible to find and edge. It will be interesting to see if this helps players have longer productive careers / peaks, but if it does that just means less turnover at the top and it will be even harder to break in.

 

Club head speeds are getting faster. To me that's a sign of things being hard today. Players have to continually push boundaries or they get left behind.

 

Course conditions and equipment are relative. Your competitors all have the same things to deal with, so I don't see how it makes life today easier or harder. However, if trying to compare against eras it's complicated. Greens are smoother for sure... but they're also firmer and faster. Fairways are firmer and harder to hit now. Courses are pristine, but much longer.  When you see someone at the Masters hitting a 5i compared to a 7i today, remember that those clubs actually have very similar lofts and lengths. Irons are definitely more forgiving, but iron distance hasn't really changed as much as it can seem. 

 

We've flipped the premium on accuracy vs. distance with how drivers are designed. I don't think that makes it easier or harder, just different. Some people from today would have fared better in yester year, and some in the old days would be better off today.

[Titleist99]

25 minutes ago, golfday said:

Players unquestionably have it easier financially and travel wise. Hotels are more comfortable, the money has made air (sometimes private) travel more attainable, tournaments provide courtesy cars and nice food, etc. Purse money has grown significantly making probably putting less stress on the players to perform (however, if you lose your card you lose your card). I think that alone is enough to say it's easier today. However in every other regard, I'm not so sure. 

 

Op mentioned pyschologists, physios, etc. as proof they have it easier - in a way I'd say that's proof that it's harder. These days you have to do everything possible, and pay for it, to be competitive. Sure there are still some guys not doing that, but the number is decreasing, and those guys aren't top guys. The top guys now are searching for and trying everything possible to find and edge. It will be interesting to see if this helps players have longer productive careers / peaks, but if it does that just means less turnover at the top and it will be even harder to break in.

 

Club head speeds are getting faster. To me that's a sign of things being hard today. Players have to continually push boundaries or they get left behind.

 

Course conditions and equipment are relative. Your competitors all have the same things to deal with, so I don't see how it makes life today easier or harder. However, if trying to compare against eras it's complicated. Greens are smoother for sure... but they're also firmer and faster. Fairways are firmer and harder to hit now. Courses are pristine, but much longer.  When you see someone at the Masters hitting a 5i compared to a 7i today, remember that those clubs actually have very similar lofts and lengths. Irons are definitely more forgiving, but iron distance hasn't really changed as much as it can seem. 

 

We've flipped the premium on accuracy vs. distance with how drivers are designed. I don't think that makes it easier or harder, just different. Some people from today would have fared better in yester year, and some in the old days would be better off today.

While I agree with you in part, this is what it comes down to.....
The wonderful thing about golf is that every era of players plays the same course and the lowest score wins.

You can't compare eras......., speculation is like comparing apples and oranges. Add up the wins and see who comes out on top....IMO

[oikos1]

You absolutely can compare eras.  Making subjective statements about which era was more difficult, which we all do, it's human nature, just makes a mess of it.  However, you can factually and objectively compare the differences.