Dr Kwon

[Forged4life]

9 hours ago, MPStrat said:

I will say that what Kwon is teaching is a conglomeration of the most helpful things I have learned in the last decade and I like the way he frames the golf swing conceptually. I will also say that if I was exposed to this material five years ago, I don’t know if I would fully understand the how and why enough to incorporate it into my swing. Without exception learning/making changes to the golf swing on the internet is a near impossible task. 

It’s true. As someone stated early in the thread there seems to be the two camps of swinging the club WITH arms vs using the body/ground to swing the club. It’s really an intent situation but these videos seem to link the two where you basically use the body/ground to swing the arms but not using the arms. One little nugget that was literally a quick second in the video that clicked for me was to look at the ball OVER the left shoulder at transition and that keeps the torso closed the split second longer. Only done air swings with it but it is a very different move to me as I spin open from the top and have never really found a way to combat that effectively. I also like this becaose it’s devoid of technical thoughts and just to be athletic. I’ve always been a good athlete pitching and hitting etc but with golf I’m way to position oriented and technical and it has made me less free and rigid over time. Plying today so we will see ha

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, Forged4life said:

It’s true. As someone stated early in the thread there seems to be the two camps of swinging the club WITH arms vs using the body/ground to swing the club. It’s really an intent situation but these videos seem to link the two where you basically use the body/ground to swing the arms but not using the arms. One little nugget that was literally a quick second in the video that clicked for me was to look at the ball OVER the left shoulder at transition and that keeps the torso closed the split second longer. Only done air swings with it but it is a very different move to me as I spin open from the top and have never really found a way to combat that effectively. I also like this becaose it’s devoid of technical thoughts and just to be athletic. I’ve always been a good athlete pitching and hitting etc but with golf I’m way to position oriented and technical and it has made me less free and rigid over time. Plying today so we will see ha

Looking at the ball in the manner prescribed also helps to make a full shoulder turn.  LOL tends to get the spine leaning towards the target a bit which is a good thing though I have gotten a lot of flack on that one in another thread.  I find that moving the entire body towards the target hopefully starting at about lead arm 9:00 in the backswing (recentering) and not just the hips as demoed in the second video very helpful.  Not the easiest thing to do for me but something to work on.  When I manage that movement I get a nice feeling of lots of room for the arms to swing through on a good path.

[Forged4life]

51 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Looking at the ball in the manner prescribed also helps to make a full shoulder turn.  LOL tends to get the spine leaning towards the target a bit which is a good thing though I have gotten a lot of flack on that one in another thread.  I find that moving the entire body towards the target hopefully starting at about lead arm 9:00 in the backswing (recentering) and not just the hips as demoed in the second video very helpful.  Not the easiest thing to do for me but something to work on.  When I manage that movement I get a nice feeling of lots of room for the arms to swing through on a good path.

Funny thing is I’ve always had the centering move, move my whole torso towards the target always been a small guy so thought that was power but was always ahead of the ball so now power. But now if i shift to the right and then just do my move it’s pretty good. Really have to feel I’m shifting a ton but in mirror it’s only like an inch or two 

[pusb365]

Have been playing poorly recently but watched these videos and went to the range today. Made a huge difference in strike, direction and aesthetics on camera. 

 

Definitely added a few yards as well. 

[airjammer]

14 hours ago, rondo01 said:

More today…

 

 

Seems like Kwon likes more extension at the top of the swing than Dana. I think Dana mentions somewhere that maintaining more front bend helps with the stretch in transition. 

[MrHateCoffee]

So is this guy just the latest in GRF teaching ala Zen Golf?

[Zitlow]

58 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Seems like Kwon likes more extension at the top of the swing than Dana. I think Dana mentions somewhere that maintaining more front bend helps with the stretch in transition. 

 

Good video. Dr Kwon makes a pendulum motion with his lower spine instead of a metronome motion with his C7 (back of the neck) like you see a lot of people do. Dr Kwon is trying to get the metronome (sway) out of Brendon's swing which is caused by trying to swing wide down the target line. 

 

Sam Snead swinging the bottom of his spine to the right which has created an axis (post) consisting of his right leg and spine. He's balanced on his right hip. 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Zitlow

[NoCalHack]

Just discovered this guy and watched the first video. 
 

apologies that I haven’t read this whole thread. But his ideas are interesting. 
 

I find it striking that in the first video that when he constantly demonstrates the “wrong move” which is to open the body, it looks exactly like Gankas demonstrating his “correct move”. 
 

Different strokes for different folks. When I try and do the Gankas move it’s a disaster for me given my swing. The Kwon way works better for me. 

[Stiff]

On 12/27/2021 at 8:27 AM, Redjeep83 said:

I’ve only watched a few, he also gets distracted easily I have noticed. The instructor could be teaching an important concept to him and he walks off to get a ball or goes to adjusts cameras, microphones and lights, lol. 

Bingo.  I find him very hard to watch.  Very disrespectful not to make eye contact and pay attention to the person (expert) he's interviewing.

[Soloman1]

Well, he has some pretty serious ADD. He can be a little difficult to be around in person.

 

The real question is: are you scoring better?

 

And Sam Snead had freakish mobility in his hips. He was like a Rockette. He could kick the top of a door frame at 80 years old.

[enormous13]

14 hours ago, Stiff said:

Bingo.  I find him very hard to watch.  Very disrespectful not to make eye contact and pay attention to the person (expert) he's interviewing.

This isn’t to be mean, but I honestly think he’s very mildly on the spectrum after watching some of his stuff. So the lack of eye contact, wandering, and jumping around in topics aren’t intentionally disrespectful. Regardless, he presents some really good teachers to us for free via YT. 

[AndersUK]

18 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

So is this guy just the latest in GRF teaching ala Zen Golf?

 

Dr Kwon is different league IMO.  He teaches with more certainty and authority than any other coach I have seen deliver a live lesson save for Gankas.  It is also the best gradient to learning a golf swing that I have ever seen.  

 

Brendon is no hack and he needed a lot of continuous hands-on correction to progress through each stage, which goes to show how many gradients most amateurs miss during learning the golf swing. This is his best content to date by far but I agree he lacks basic communication skills and is constantly distracted by roaming thoughts.

 

For me Kwon and Gankas are pioneers right now when it comes to golf coaching.

[Forged4life]

28 minutes ago, AndersUK said:

For me Kwon and Gankas are pioneers right now when it comes to golf coaching.

It’s interesting as they seem to have polar opposite movements going on 

[Forged4life]

57 minutes ago, enormous13 said:

This isn’t to be mean, but I honestly think he’s very mildly on the spectrum after watching some of his stuff. So the lack of eye contact, wandering, and jumping around in topics aren’t intentionally disrespectful. Regardless, he presents some really good teachers to us for free via YT. 

On the spectrum or just kind of a doosh

[NoCalHack]

53 minutes ago, Forged4life said:

It’s interesting as they seem to have polar opposite movements going on 

 

 

I found this really striking.

 

 

At top is a screenshot of Dr. Kwon YouTube video.  At bottom is Gankas.

 

Look familiar?  Yes, but Kwon is demonstrating this move as being wrong.  Gankas is demonstrating this move as being good.

 

 

 

For me, the Kwon move is way more natural.  Far more traditional, like Snead or Nicklaus used to swing.

 

When I try to do the Gankas move, I hit weak right shots with an inefficient release.   In my swing, the problem is not rotation.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[flatnstuck]

1 hour ago, enormous13 said:

This isn’t to be mean, but I honestly think he’s very mildly on the spectrum after watching some of his stuff. So the lack of eye contact, wandering, and jumping around in topics aren’t intentionally disrespectful. Regardless, he presents some really good teachers to us for free via YT. 

 

Quite possibly. It’s standard practice for his personal interactions. He’s generally worth tuning out if you can hear the instructor speak while being spoken over. I’ve found that his instructors tend to be the paragons of patience when dealing with Brendan.

 

It is funny to watch him actually do whatever a given instructor advocates, really stripe one and then completely shut down while he processes what just happened. At that point the given instructor might as well be discussing string theory for all Brendan is paying attention.

 

He does present excellent content, and some of the instructors, Malaska for example, really get to flesh out their thoughts despite his interview techniques. He really, really needs to be told to not be thinking of his next question while the other person is talking, because he often doesn’t hear what he’s being told the first time, but does manage the movement pattern once it’s sunk in.

[Forged4life]

7 minutes ago, NoCalHack said:

 

 

I found this really striking.

 

 

At top is a screenshot of Dr. Kwon YouTube video.  At bottom is Gankas.

 

Look familiar?  Yes, but Kwon is demonstrating this move as being wrong.  Gankas is demonstrating this move as being good.

 

 

 

For me, the Kwon move is way more natural.  Far more traditional, like Snead or Nicklaus used to swing.

 

When I try to do the Gankas move, I hit weak right shots with an inefficient release.   In my swing, the problem is not rotation.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea the gankas move wouldn’t work well with one of those pressure boards. All the pressure should be left by p5 right?

[AndersUK]

1 hour ago, Forged4life said:

It’s interesting as they seem to have polar opposite movements going on 

 

Yes, I find it interesting too and it almost looks like the swing verses hit conundrum.  Kwon has started adding the missing pieces in the learning curve of developing an effortless body driven swing.  Gankas has decoded the steps needed to deliver a set and hold driven hit/swing.

 

That said they share a key fundamental.  Both are body/pivot driven.

[swh0507]

7 minutes ago, Forged4life said:

Yea the gankas move wouldn’t work well with one of those pressure boards. All the pressure should be left by p5 right?

I don't think its the same thing. You have a screen grab that looks similar but are addressing two different things. I believe Dr. Kwon is basically talking about the people who do the Snead squat by just separating their legs (dropping the basket). You can drop the basket without torqueing the ground. Gankas is demonstrating a exaggerated slow mo torque of the ground. His real swing never gets in that position.  Below is a  screen grab (sorry for poor quality) of Gankas analyzing his swing on swing catalyst. He is demonstrating to much pressure back in this picture, but still has 63% forward.

[NoCalHack]

31 minutes ago, swh0507 said:

I don't think its the same thing. You have a screen grab that looks similar but are addressing two different things. I believe Dr. Kwon is basically talking about the people who do the Snead squat by just separating their legs (dropping the basket). You can drop the basket without torqueing the ground. Gankas is demonstrating a exaggerated slow mo torque of the ground. His real swing never gets in that position.  Below is a  screen grab (sorry for poor quality) of Gankas analyzing his swing on swing catalyst. He is demonstrating to much pressure back in this picture, but still has 63% forward.

 

 

I think it all goes to illustrate the point "feel isn't real".

 

Gankas is demonstrating an exaggerated move to try and correct someone's flaw.  Kwon seems to be demonstrating a similar move to illustrate someone's flaw.  It's true that Gankas doesn't advocate that exact position in the swing, and Kwon's student in the video doesn't take that exact position in the swing.

 

But philosophically their teaching is different for sure.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Zitlow]

As @NoCalHackpointed out this is the move Brandon is stuck on. GG created a swing doctrine that DD and other swing "experts" advocated the last 2 or 3 years. Hopefully they credited GG who's marketing genius developed it. 

 

 

A lot of them have moved on to the latest greatest thing by now. 

 

 

From my perspective Dr. Kwon is on the right track by using the lower body as the engine to create force in the swing.

 

However for those who are implementing Dr. Kwon's concept don't get married to his transition or his method of pulling the left side to apply force to the ball.

 

This is a crude analogy but if you were going to punch someone you want the force coming from behind the punch not in front of the punch. 

[Hilts1969]

I think a lot of instructors have different ideas although set up seems the most conforming across the board. I watch a lot of Monte, AMG, Gankas and milo lines and knowing quite a bit of Malaska stuff as well as watching this latest Dr Kwon piece. If I had the means I would go and see Monte and AMG tbh. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Hilts1969

[DShepley]

2 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

As @NoCalHackpointed out this is the move Brandon is stuck on. GG created a swing doctrine that DD and other swing "experts" advocated the last 2 or 3 years. Hopefully they credited GG who's marketing genius developed it. 

 

 

A lot of them have moved on to the latest greatest thing by now. 

 

 

From my perspective Dr. Kwon is on the right track by using the lower body as the engine to create force in the swing.

 

However for those who are implementing Dr. Kwon's concept don't get married to his transition or his method of pulling the left side to apply force to the ball.

 

This is a crude analogy but if you were going to punch someone you want the force coming from behind the punch not in front of the punch. 

I think if people are following the concepts of Dr Kwon, they should follow the concepts of Dr Kwon and not Zitlow......

[Zitlow]

24 minutes ago, DShepley said:

I think if people are following the concepts of Dr Kwon, they should follow the concepts of Dr Kwon and not Zitlow......

 

Haha, I agree. Don't follow my concepts but for those implementing Dr. Kwon's concepts it might be worthwhile for them to check out Mike Austin's concepts of using the lower body as the engine to move the upper body to create force. 

 

Austin's transition was different because he didn't drag the club head across the ball by pulling with his left side. Austin was amplifying the force by throwing the club head through the ball with his honds.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Zitlow

[glk]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

 

Haha, I agree. Don't follow my concepts but for those implementing Dr. Kwon's concepts it might be worthwhile for them to check out Mike Austin's concepts of using the lower body as the engine to move the upper body to create force. 

 

Austin's transition was different because he didn't drag the club head across the ball by pulling with his left side. Austin was amplifying the force by throwing the club head through the ball with his honds.

 

 

 

Dr kwon never says pull with your left side.  He says shift, turn and throw your arms over and over and over again.   And he talks about a body driven swing over and over.    Maybe you need to pay attention more to what he is saying and doing and park your biases.
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQ5x_5wHtD3/

 

 

[johnrobison]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

As @NoCalHackpointed out this is the move Brandon is stuck on. GG created a swing doctrine that DD and other swing "experts" advocated the last 2 or 3 years. Hopefully they credited GG who's marketing genius developed it. 

 

 

A lot of them have moved on to the latest greatest thing by now. 

 

 

From my perspective Dr. Kwon is on the right track by using the lower body as the engine to create force in the swing.

 

However for those who are implementing Dr. Kwon's concept don't get married to his transition or his method of pulling the left side to apply force to the ball.

 

This is a crude analogy but if you were going to punch someone you want the force coming from behind the punch not in front of the punch. 

And if I wanted to move something heavy, I can pull with more force than I can push. 

[Zitlow]

20 minutes ago, glk said:

Dr kwon never says pull with your left side.  He says shift, turn and throw your arms over and over and over again.   And he talks about a body driven swing over and over.    Maybe you need to pay attention more to what he is saying and doing and park your biases.
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQ5x_5wHtD3/

 

 

 

If Dr. Kwon isn't advocating a pull then clue me in and tell me what he's advocating here.

 

 

 

 

 

[glk]

4 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

If Dr. Kwon isn't advocating a pull then clue me in and tell me what he's advocating here.

 

 

 

 

 

By the shoulder turning not the arms pulling!    How does one turn the shoulders and not do a combo of pull and push?  Austin did the same thing.  No magic there.
 

Edited December 29, 2021 by glk

[Forged4life]

2 hours ago, Zitlow said:

As @NoCalHackpointed out this is the move Brandon is stuck on. GG created a swing doctrine that DD and other swing "experts" advocated the last 2 or 3 years. Hopefully they credited GG who's marketing genius developed it. 

 

 

A lot of them have moved on to the latest greatest thing by now. 

 

 

From my perspective Dr. Kwon is on the right track by using the lower body as the engine to create force in the swing.

 

However for those who are implementing Dr. Kwon's concept don't get married to his transition or his method of pulling the left side to apply force to the ball.

 

This is a crude analogy but if you were going to punch someone you want the force coming from behind the punch not in front of the punch. 

I don’t think he advocates any pulling at all from left side 

[Zitlow]

4 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

And if I wanted to move something heavy, I can pull with more force than I can push. 

 

The golf ball isn't heavy and besides Austin wasn't trying to push the golf ball down the fairway.