A Few Thoughts From Monty.....

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

“The modern pro”? Or Bryson and top 5%?

 

The average “modern pro” carries their 3w 243 yards (275 driver).

 

Figure they pull 3w for accuracy in most cases and don’t “lean on it”

 

But that’s the whole point ; )

 

They can’t swing for the fences with a much smaller 3w as a toaster head. 

 

Limit cc and you’ll bring back distance to  2000 levels where 300 yards was a big drive.

 

Whats the problem?

 

 

 

 

If a Johnny Miller could swing like this with persimmon why would a three wood sized head hold them back?

 

 

[Body_Visions]

8 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

If a Johnny Miller could swing like this with persimmon why would a three wood sized head hold them back?

 

 

 

 

Because he is Johnny Miller?  I think most of our points is to try and identify the Johnny Millers.

[Shilgy]

31 minutes ago, Body_Visions said:

 

 

Because he is Johnny Miller?  I think most of our points is to try and identify the Johnny Millers.

And 50 years later the new guys can’t compete with that? C’mon man…..

[bscinstnct]

59 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

If a Johnny Miller could swing like this with persimmon why would a three wood sized head hold them back?

 

 

 

Most pros, and ams alike, who played old gear, agree that they couldn’t swing nearly as hard given much little forgiveness the smaller clubs had.

 

JM notwithstanding, of course ; )

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Most pros, and ams alike, who played old gear, agree that they couldn’t swing nearly as hard given much little forgiveness the smaller clubs had.

 

JM notwithstanding, of course ; )

As an am from that era I’ll disagree …..remember the driver, for instance, was 2” shorter than current while the head was a bit bigger than said 3 wood.

[bscinstnct]

36 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

As an am from that era I’ll disagree …..remember the driver, for instance, was 2” shorter than current while the head was a bit bigger than said 3 wood.

 

So the equipment was more forgiving in Johnnie’s era?

 

 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

So the equipment was more forgiving in Johnnie’s era?

 

 

Who said that?  Point is that 190cc driver head was not attached to a 46” shaft. It played at 43 1/2 with a steel shorter shaft.  
 

So many on this board try to make it out like the old stuff was just sooooo hard to play well.  No it wasn’t.

 

An example….this training aid is easy to hit imo.  
https://shop.golfpsp.com/

 

But oh my….it’s so small! Lol. It’s the modern driver that is more difficult to hit well consistently.  Do you get better results if center is hit than the past equipment?  Yes.  But the point is it was much easier to hit the center in a smaller shorter club.  At least for some of us.

[bscinstnct]

8 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Who said that?  Point is that 190cc driver head was not attached to a 46” shaft. It played at 43 1/2 with a steel shorter shaft.  
 

So many on this board try to make it out like the old stuff was just sooooo hard to play well.  No it wasn’t.

 

An example….this training aid is easy to hit imo.  
https://shop.golfpsp.com/

 

But oh my….it’s so small! Lol. It’s the modern driver that is more difficult to hit well consistently.  Do you get better results if center is hit than the past equipment?  Yes.  But the point is it was much easier to hit the center in a smaller shorter club.  At least for some of us.

 

TW was hitting a 260cc driver and 43” steel shaft. He averaged 298 yards in 2000.

 

And that was TW 1.0, he was swinging hard! Hard as possible but still needed to have a mind for the much smaller sweet spot and less forgiveness than the modern toaster head. 

 

Thats all I’m talkin bout. 
 

A 300 yard being a big drive again. I doubt anybody would say that TW was playing less exciting golf than Bryson ; )

[Body_Visions]

14 hours ago, Shilgy said:

And 50 years later the new guys can’t compete with that? C’mon man…..

 

 

Sure I would say that. 50 years later there hasn’t been anyone that hit it better at their best than Miller did at his. 

[grm24]

14 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Most pros, and ams alike, who played old gear, agree that they couldn’t swing nearly as hard given much little forgiveness the smaller clubs had.

Selective amnesia on your part BSC? You seem to purposely be overlooking or completely ignoring the fact how much the balata golf balls crazily spun back in those days. Which has always been mentioned by the players in that era as a reason why they didn't always swing as hard as they could when compared to golf balls of today. It was mostly the spin. It wasn't always club forgiveness back then. Todays golf balls spin way less than the balata days. 

[grm24]

29 minutes ago, Body_Visions said:

 

 

Sure I would say that. 50 years later there hasn’t been anyone that hit it better at their best than Miller did at his. 

Woods, Tiger - 2000.

[bscinstnct]

9 hours ago, grm24 said:

Selective amnesia on your part BSC? You seem to purposely be overlooking or completely ignoring the fact how much the balata golf balls crazily spun back in those days. Which has always been mentioned by the players in that era as a reason why they didn't always swing as hard as they could when compared to golf balls of today. It was mostly the spin. It wasn't always club forgiveness back then. Todays golf balls spin way less than the balata days. 

 

no argument.

 

But strictly on the driver head itself.

 

The difference in the size of the sweetspot is absurd. And that’s what would make driving distance drop to 300 yards being a big drive again. 
 

There’s a reason they have massive R&D budgets, NASA engineers, and rare earth materials poured into them, right?

 

; )

 

 

[TiScape]

8 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

no argument.

 

But strictly on the driver head itself.

 

The difference in the size of the sweetspot is absurd. And that’s what would make driving distance drop to 300 yards being a big drive again. 
 

There’s a reason they have massive R&D budgets, NASA engineers, and rare earth materials poured into them, right?

 

; )

 

 

I think the sweet spot on that driver (modern drivers) is bigger than the entire face of the old skool drivers! 😆 No way! That doesn’t have a big impact on how hard a player can go at the ball!

Edited January 28, 2022 by TiScape

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, TiScape said:

I think the sweet spot on that driver (modern drivers) is bigger than the entire face of the old skool drivers! 😆 No way! That doesn’t have a big impact on how hard a player can go at the ball!

 

I think you’re right!

 

 

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

I think you’re right!

 

 

It’s teed up too high.

[Forged4ever]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:18 PM, Shilgy said:

As an am from that era I’ll disagree …..remember the driver, for instance, was 2” shorter than current while the head was a bit bigger than said 3 wood.

Also as an Am from that era, c'mon Bro😂😂

 

Yah, our persimmons were 190ish, on par with today's 3M's, however that's where the similarities end, lolol

 

Today, you can take it well outside a quarter center face and depending on your swing, still move it out and keep it in play.

 

Even though the phrase, "hit it on the screws" came from this era, if you, I or anyfrigginbody strayed to those screws, you were losin big time distance and depending on your swing/spin, you could very easily be losin balls, or at least you'd be in the trash and on a challenging track, it was gonna be a very looooooooong day, lol

 

My TP 810 was the sh*t in the day(When Sam quit baggin the Izzet , he Played a customized version of the 810, with Mr. Penna putting the staff decal on the crown and then he had to modify the sole to accept the Staff sole plate), though forget the screws or that insert, as if you, or I, didn't "nut" that baby square in the middle of that triangle on the TP or in between those middle screws on the Mac, that ball was goin only God knows where and not very far, lol. Even compared to the modern 3M, they're like an SGI metal compare to the persimmon drivers, lolol.
 

Having Played the persimmons, I can't believe that you would even equate them in the same universe as the big metal

Ti drivers of the modern era. I remember standin on the practice with Sean and laughin about a couple of new TBaG drivers that we were tryin out and sayin what a world of difference if we'd have had those when we were learnin the game as kids and we could've swung for the fences like these kids do today versus the more controlled swing that one had to use with both persimmon woods and true butter knife blades🔪, as @TiScape mentioned above me🤙

 

Oh well, maybe it was just us *ssholes in Southwestern Pennsylvania😜🤪

 

Stay Well Brotha👊
RP

Edited January 29, 2022 by Forged4ever

[Forged4ever]

9 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

no argument.

 

But strictly on the driver head itself.

 

The difference in the size of the sweetspot is absurd. And that’s what would make driving distance drop to 300 yards being a big drive again. 
 

There’s a reason they have massive R&D budgets, NASA engineers, and rare earth materials poured into them, right?

 

; )

 

 

Great image Brotha!!

 

If you did that with a persimmon, a ball hit in the orange and yellow would be a 200yd or less drive, and definitely not in the short hair!!

 

Have a Great Weekend👊
RP

[Shilgy]

18 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

Also as an Am from that era, c'mon Bro😂😂

 

Yah, our persimmons were 190ish, on par with today's 3M's, however that's where the similarities end, lolol

 

Today, you can take it well outside a quarter center face and depending on your swing, still move it out and keep it in play.

 

Even though the phrase, "hit it on the screws" came from this era, if you, I or anyfrigginbody strayed to those screws, you were losin big time distance and depending on your swing/spin, you could very easily be losin balls, or at least you'd be in the trash and on a challenging track, it was gonna be a very looooooooong day, lol

 

My TP 810 was the sh*t in the day(When Sam quit baggin the Izzet , he Played a customized version of the 810, with Mr. Penna putting the staff decal on the crown and then he had to modify the sole to accept the Staff sole plate), though forget the screws or that insert, as if you, or I, didn't "nut" that baby square in the middle of that triangle on the TP or in between those middle screws on the Mac, that ball was goin only God knows where and not very far, lol. Even compared to the modern 3M, they're like an SGI metal compare to the persimmon drivers, lolol.
 

Having Played the persimmons, I can't believe that you would even equate them in the same universe as the big metal

Ti drivers of the modern era. I remember standin on the practice with Sean and laughin about a couple of new TBaG drivers that we were tryin out and sayin what a world of difference if we'd have had those when we were learnin the game as kids and we could've swung for the fences like these kids do today versus the more controlled swing that one had to use with both persimmon woods and true butter knife blades🔪, as @TiScape mentioned above me🤙

 

Oh well, maybe it was just us *ssholes in Southwestern Pennsylvania😜🤪

 

Stay Well Brotha👊
RP

What I am saying is that it was easier to center the old heads.  Was it concentration knowing you had to? Length of shaft? A younger me?  Beats the heck out of me but it was easier to hit the the old stuff solidly.  
  And yes….if you did miss the center as badly as I sometimes miss today it would have been an awful result.  But I didn’t.  So no….I’m not saying the old stuff was as forgiving as the new…..today you could miss center by more than an inch and still be on the fairway, albeit 30+ yards shorter than centered.  But a good player did not miss that old club by as much as he may occasionally today.

  

That’s  my opinion and it won’t waver.  Yeah…the potential to be much longer is greater today.  But easier to hit dead nuts center? No.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Shilgy

[Titleist99]

On 1/27/2022 at 6:20 PM, bscinstnct said:

 

TW was hitting a 260cc driver and 43” steel shaft. He averaged 298 yards in 2000.

 

And that was TW 1.0, he was swinging hard! Hard as possible but still needed to have a mind for the much smaller sweet spot and less forgiveness than the modern toaster head. 

 

Thats all I’m talkin bout. 
 

A 300 yard being a big drive again. I doubt anybody would say that TW was playing less exciting golf than Bryson ; )

2000-2022.....people have to know that technology would advance. The game advanced but in my mind 300 yards is still the benchmark for sucess on the PGATOUR. to this day Woods driving average fluctuated between 300-307 (don't quote me) and he's always been a force in the game, and he's not quite finished yet.......

Edited January 29, 2022 by Titleist99

[Forged4ever]

On another subject.....

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=montgomery slams harrington over ryder cup&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

As much as I like Colin, and Lord knows that my thought process isn't the be all end all, though it's pretty damn close, 😂😂, however, would something like this have been better said in either a one on one conversation with Padre or a group meeting, basically, behind closed doors🚪??

 

I don't see any reason for the public b*tch slap, regardless of whether it is a valid opinion, which I happen to believe it to be, or not.

 

I long for the days when we had only a telephone for communication, and we didn't have the ability to basically just pick up our phone, rip off a thought or two, and blast a Guy/Gal globally🌍 

 

I know that Monty is not a keyboard kommando cuz I've seen him confront someone belly to belly with his opinion, though I just think that this particular opinion was better left for a private discussion🤷🏻‍♂️
 

I'm a dinosaur🦖, lol😜🤪

 

Have a Great Weekend My Friends👊
RP

Edited January 29, 2022 by Forged4ever

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

2000-2022.....people have to know that technology would advance. The game advanced but in my mind 300 yards is still the benchmark for sucess on the PGATOUR. to this ay woos driving average fluctuated between 300-307 (don't quote me) and he's always been a force in the game, and he's not quite finished yet.......

It’s a shame TW didn’t “grow up” playing the 460cc/graphite driver.

 

He was a pretty accurate and long driver with steel/steel but he went on a wild swing change journey and then never mad the transition as well as many.

 

Imagine if he was a comfortable with the “modern driver” as the 975d/43” steel shaft?

 

Hed have been driving 315-320 and destroyed everybody more than he actually did ; )

Edited January 29, 2022 by bscinstnct

[Titleist99]

52 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

It’s a shame TW didn’t “grow up” playing the 460cc/graphite driver.

 

He was a pretty accurate and long driver with steel/steel but he went on a wild swing change journey and then never mad the transition as well as many.

 

Imagine if he was a comfortable with the “modern driver” as the 975d/43” steel shaft?

 

Hed have been driving 315-320 and destroyed everybody more than he actually did ; )

It was the never-ending quest to get better........

[bscinstnct]

8 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

It was the never-ending quest to get better........

Ive posted this before, very enlightening view from Butch Harmon on how TWs pursuit of a new swing 

 

“was a mistake when putting a new driver in the bag would have done the trick.”

 

Gives a great timeline and perspective on the evolution of the driver at that time and how TW possibly totally wasted time or worse…

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/gd0608_harmontiger/amp

Edited January 29, 2022 by bscinstnct

[Body_Visions]

2 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

On another subject.....

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=montgomery slams harrington over ryder cup&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

As much as I like Colin, and Lord knows that my thought process isn't the be all end all, though it's pretty damn close, 😂😂, however, would something like this have been better said in either a one on one conversation with Padre or a group meeting, basically, behind closed doors🚪??

 

I don't see any reason for the public b*tch slap, regardless of whether it is a valid opinion, which I happen to believe it to be, or not.

 

I long for the days when we had only a telephone for communication, and we didn't have the ability to basically just pick up our phone, rip off a thought or two, and blast a Guy/Gal globally🌍 

 

I know that Monty is not a keyboard kommando cuz I've seen him confront someone belly to belly with his opinion, though I just think that this particular opinion was better left for a private discussion🤷🏻‍♂️
 

I'm a dinosaur🦖, lol😜🤪

 

Have a Great Weekend My Friends👊
RP

 

 

I saw it, and immediately wondered why, but isn’t that the reason we all love him?  Ask him a question, and you will get an answer.

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

On another subject.....

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=montgomery slams harrington over ryder cup&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

As much as I like Colin, and Lord knows that my thought process isn't the be all end all, though it's pretty damn close, 😂😂, however, would something like this have been better said in either a one on one conversation with Padre or a group meeting, basically, behind closed doors🚪??

 

I don't see any reason for the public b*tch slap, regardless of whether it is a valid opinion, which I happen to believe it to be, or not.

 

I long for the days when we had only a telephone for communication, and we didn't have the ability to basically just pick up our phone, rip off a thought or two, and blast a Guy/Gal globally🌍 

 

I know that Monty is not a keyboard kommando cuz I've seen him confront someone belly to belly with his opinion, though I just think that this particular opinion was better left for a private discussion🤷🏻‍♂️
 

I'm a dinosaur🦖, lol😜🤪

 

Have a Great Weekend My Friends👊
RP

The old phrase “hindsight is 20/20 comes to mind when reading his comments.

[gvogel]

On 1/27/2022 at 12:44 PM, Shilgy said:

And 50 years later the new guys can’t compete with that? C’mon man…..

We would like to identify the guys who could.  Sure, some would.

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, gvogel said:

We would like to identify the guys who could.  Sure, some would.

You can’t tell who the great ball strikers are today?  Really?

[Body_Visions]

The guys that do strike it the purest aren’t rewarded accordingly I don’t believe.

[Shilgy]

14 hours ago, Body_Visions said:

The guys that do strike it the purest aren’t rewarded accordingly I don’t believe.

Really? Look at the world rankings….do you see anyone that is a poor striker but only has a great short game?

[Shilgy]

On further consideration…..I think all of us are missing the point.  Some have said they believe a rollback in head size would do the trick of making it more difficult like the good old days.  Others, including myself,  have said the head size is not the answer.  It has been touched on a bit but hat I think has been missed is that it is not the head size that makes the modern drivers more forgiving.  It is the lighter overall weight combined with the perimeter weighting that makes the “sweet spot” play bigger.  Even though the sweet spot truly is just a small spot.  It is just that the misses are penalized less.
  So a reduced size on its own would do little.  Does the idea of reducing the tech in modern clubs, of any size, really appeal to anyone out there?  If it does you can just play older clubs and be happy I guess.