A Few Thoughts From Monty.....

[Superbrit]

20 hours ago, Forged4ever said:

That's ok, I'll check em for ya😊

 

I am clueless as to what is a "meaningful sense" versus say, a "non meaningful" sense, however last year(2021) Na was good for a 289.6 average, which ranked him at T177 on Tour.

 

Shilgs is usually spot on with his numbers, averages, etc., we just disagree on that strength of field bullsh*t😂😂

 

Anytime that I'm on the losing side of a logic based data driven argument, I call "bullsh*t," lolol🤪

 

Shilgs is much more mature than I, or so Madison tells me😜

 

Cheers🍻

RP

Always make me chuckle these stats, it has Rory at 311, so Na is only 22 yards behind Rory, yeah right! 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Superbrit

[vman]

On 1/21/2022 at 1:31 PM, milesgiles said:

 

and yet the answer is so simple

 

for pro's and amateurs in gross events, limit head size to 250cc or so. I want to see what Bryson and Wolff can do when they dont have near infinite forgiveness with the clubhead 

Lol...Brysons 3 wood is about 170cc's and he hits it 300 off the tee.

[bscinstnct]

31 minutes ago, vman said:

Lol...Brysons 3 wood is about 170cc's and he hits it 300 off the tee.

 

Yes, TW was hitting a 260cc steel head with a 43” steel shaft 300 yards.

 

Much more challenging than the toaster heads now to get it out there 300 yards. 

[milesgiles]

8 hours ago, vman said:

Lol...Brysons 3 wood is about 170cc's and he hits it 300 off the tee.

 

sounds about right.  An exceptional drive should be about 300, as it always used to be. Not an average one.

 

Thanks for agreeing

[mat562]

If only there was an item of golf equipment, used by amateurs and pros alike, which was relatively cheap, disposable and rolled over on a regular basis, and which could be modified to reduce distance in a way which was readily achievable through technology and easy to implement via routine replacement.

[munichop]

I watched the DP tourney this week and Monty is right except when the wind blows.  Then you have to hit real golf shots and not all the players can do that as well as one might think.  Wind is the last defense for the modern guys.  A lot has to do with the fact that they play courses too short for the length they hit the ball.  Using the 36 times the length you hit your 5 iron  rule I should play a course that is maybe 6200 yards but the pros should be playing over 8000 yards and they never do that.  If you want to know what it is like to play a course too short for your length move up 1000 yards and hot driver all day and you will see you have wedges over half the time just like they do.  That's why guys like Hatton believe every par 5 should be reachable. 

[Titleist99]

On 1/23/2022 at 3:26 AM, milesgiles said:

 

sounds about right.  An exceptional drive should be about 300, as it always used to be. Not an average one.

 

Thanks for agreeing

It all boils down to revenue......No one will pay a premium cable bill to watch a touring Pro hit his driver as long as his/her Saturday morning foursome.......

The PGATOUR sells distance, that's their product. Manufactures of clubs also sell distance.....with the latest and greatest models.......Nobody knows how to generate revenue like the PGATOUR

[milesgiles]

6 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

It all boils down to revenue......No one will pay a premium cable bill to watch a touring Pro hit his driver as long as his/her Saturday morning foursome.......

The PGATOUR sells distance, that's their product. Manufactures of clubs also sell distance.....with the latest and greatest models.......Nobody knows how to generate revenue like the PGATOUR

 

I don’t agree with the first part at all. I’m certainly not paying to watch drive wedge all day 

[Titleist99]

4 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

I don’t agree with the first part at all. I’m certainly not paying to watch drive wedge all day 

Nor would I pay to watch a bunch of Corey Pavins out there driving the  ball 250-260 off the tee.

Each to his own though.......... I would say that the modern game is not for you.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Titleist99

[milesgiles]

56 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Nor would I pay to watch a bunch of Corey Pavins out there driving the  ball 250-260 off the tee.

Each to his own though.......... I would say that the modern game is not for you.

 

neither do I. I want to see the Pavins and Dechambeau's competing against each other, and everyone in between. 

 

I would say you dont know what you are missing 

[Shilgy]

On 1/21/2022 at 2:36 AM, milesgiles said:

 

he's exactly right in his last comment, where are the Olazabals, the Faldo's, the Crenshaws, the Seve's, the Trevino's etc etc etc. all of whom swung and played in their own unique ways? Pro golf has become one dimensional, I'm not a pro am I bitter?

Wolff, Rahm, Simpson come to mind immediately to contradict that statement.  Crenshaw Faldo and Jose Maria were all pretty much classical swingers in the same mold as the current players. They just chose to swing with much less speed as opposed to Jack and Miller that swung like todays best.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

neither do I. I want to see the Pavins and Dechambeau's competing against each other, and everyone in between. 

 

I would say you dont know what you are missing 

We do still have the Pavins out there…..according to @hammersiaNa is only out there 255.🤣

 

We still have long and short players contending. Except instead of 250-270 it’s 290-310 on average.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

neither do I. I want to see the Pavins and Dechambeau's competing against each other, and everyone in between. 

 

I would say you dont know what you are missing 

If you roll back the ball, there will be no Pavins to compete........

All players compete now.....you just have to be good at different things if you can't put it out there 325 yards. The PGATOUR has about 45 tournaments.....Players only play 20-22 of them a year, they need to choose wisely to give themselves the best opportunity to win or compete. IMO of course.

[Forged4ever]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:31 AM, milesgiles said:

 I want to see what Bryson and Wolff can do when they dont have near infinite forgiveness with the clubhead 

So would I Brotha, so would I🤙👊

 

Cheers🍻

RP

[Titleist99]

Give a Pro any equipment and he or she will hit a million balls until they perfect them. Their golf work ethic is not like the average Joes's......IMO

 

That is what separate them from us.....

[munichop]

In one generation the driver went from being the most challenging club to hit to the least challenging club to hit.

[vman]

2 hours ago, munichop said:

In one generation the driver went from being the most challenging club to hit to the least challenging club to hit.

Having played in more Pro-Ams than I care to count over the last 30 years, this is blatantly and demonstrably untrue.

[Titleist99]

55 minutes ago, vman said:

Having played in more Pro-Ams than I care to count over the last 30 years, this is blatantly and demonstrably untrue.

While I totally agree with you......I' be interested in hearing some of the reasons for your conclusion.

[gvogel]

7 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Nor would I pay to watch a bunch of Corey Pavins out there driving the  ball 250-260 off the tee.

Each to his own though.......... I would say that the modern game is not for you.

What if Bryson was hitting his drives 260, and Corey was hitting it 220, or less.  And that was just the way it was, and the competition was fierce on Sunday.

Would you watch?

[munichop]

i should have qualified that statement about the driver saying it applies to the highly skilled player.   The driver will always be harder for some to hit.

[gvogel]

4 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Give a Pro any equipment and he or she will hit a million balls until they perfect them. Their golf work ethic is not like the average Joes's......IMO

 

That is what separate them from us.....

Not so.  I'm old enough to remember some pretty lousy drives by touring pros.

 

And then there is Jay Haas' pop up 150 yards dead left in the Ryder Cup at Oak Hill.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, gvogel said:

What if Bryson was hitting his drives 260, and Corey was hitting it 220, or less.  And that was just the way it was, and the competition was fierce on Sunday.

Would you watch?

Probably not. Most likely I'd golf more and watch my buddies hit the same shots......

 

I might even watch Greg Normans Saudi League......

Edited January 25, 2022 by Titleist99

[Forged4ever]

1 hour ago, munichop said:

I should have qualified that statement about the driver saying it applies to the highly skilled player.   The driver will always be harder for some to hit.

I knew what ya meant Brotha, lol😉

 

And I've Played in a couple of Pro Ams😜

 

Stay Well👊
RP

[milesgiles]

7 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

If you roll back the ball, there will be no Pavins to compete........

All players compete now.....you just have to be good at different things if you can't put it out there 325 yards. The PGATOUR has about 45 tournaments.....Players only play 20-22 of them a year, they need to choose wisely to give themselves the best opportunity to win or compete. IMO of course.

 

 

I never said anything about rolling the ball back

 

Limiting the driver cc for pro's and scratch ams is the best of all worlds

[milesgiles]

7 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Give a Pro any equipment and he or she will hit a million balls until they perfect them. Their golf work ethic is not like the average Joes's......IMO

 

That is what separate them from us.....

 

Wolff skied the 3 wood 150 yards at the US open that Bryson won, and Bryson stone cold topped the same club last year once. 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

 

I never said anything about rolling the ball back

 

Limiting the driver cc for pro's and scratch ams is the best of all worlds

In my mind, limiting any equipment is a bad idea.... 

To me, golf is just fine like it is...

[Shilgy]

On 1/25/2022 at 3:32 PM, milesgiles said:

 

 

I never said anything about rolling the ball back

 

Limiting the driver cc for pro's and scratch ams is the best of all worlds

How many cc’s do you roll back.  You seem to be off the height of the tee idea and now a cc rollback.  
 Sounds great but to what?  If the modern pro can hit a 175cc 3 wood at or over 300 yards what is the net gain?  That would push the Pavin type of player even further into the fringes of the golf world.

[milesgiles]

4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

How many cc’s do you roll back.  You seem to be off the height of the tee idea and now a cc rollback.  
 Sounds great but to what?  If the modern pro can hit a 175cc 3 wood at or over 300 yards what is the net gain?  That would push the Pavin type of player even further into the fringes of the golf world.

 

limiting the cc is effectively the same as tee height. Id rather see pro's use traditional size clubheads, whatever size that is.

 

hardly any pro's CARRY the 3 wood 300. Its the carry that takes the architecture out of play. So now you either have to swing hard but with skill (early tiger, jack) or smoothly (Pavin, Faldo) or work the ball (Trevino). 

 

Cant see how limiting cc punishes the shorter player at all. The top 10 on tour has never looked as homogenised as it does now, distance / total driving is the leading stat correlation to earnings

[bscinstnct]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

How many cc’s do you roll back.  You seem to be off the height of the tee idea and now a cc rollback.  
 Sounds great but to what?  If the modern pro can hit a 175cc 3 wood at or over 300 yards what is the net gain?  That would push the Pavin type of player even further into the fringes of the golf world.

 

“The modern pro”? Or Bryson and top 5%?

 

The average “modern pro” carries their 3w 243 yards (275 driver).

 

Figure they pull 3w for accuracy in most cases and don’t “lean on it”

 

But that’s the whole point ; )

 

They can’t swing for the fences with a much smaller 3w as a toaster head. 

 

Limit cc and you’ll bring back distance to  2000 levels where 300 yards was a big drive.

 

Whats the problem?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by bscinstnct

[vman]

Lots of "roll it back to the good old days" on here. The top end of golf was always going to evolve and so it should. Is the scoring so much better? I know some people can't enjoy watching the "bomb and gouge" golf but this is way overplayed, sure you need to hit it long on Tour but there are so many other facets to tournament play.