LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[jdl]

5 hours ago, avrag said:

Are you sure, that there was a signed agreement for the Ryder Cup captain, which said that?
All I can imagine is an agreement, which includes a commitment to certain number of events on the European Tour. Much like what Sergio Garcia claims at the moment. And how did Stenson's LIV contract make it "effectively" impossible to honour both? Which tournaments he has to participate in are scheduled at the same time?

 

Yes we are sure. You clearly have access to the internet so it's fairly easy to validate this. And it was posted in this thread when it happened as well.

 

No it has nothing to do with playing in any events on the DP Tour. He agreed not to support other competing "tours", i.e. LIV. So pretty clear cut what would happened when he signed with LIV.

 

48 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

I think the PGA Tour issue going forward is how marketable are their events when JT and Rory take time off?  Will get worse if they grab more big names

 

The event last weekend was a zero leaderboard without Finau … I’d have rather watched LIV if it was on .. sad but true.  

 

this is where the tours could co-exist with proper scheduling in my opinion 

 

interesting times

 

Uh...OK? The weeks before and after a major has always had the problem of drawing the big names. You're not going to have great fields in each and every event. The majors, the Players and a half dozen other events will be where those top fields exist. Yeah we all want more but there's a limit with a niche sport like golf.

 

Personally I'd like to see the silly FedEx playoffs axed and some new off season events instead. I think (hope) we are headed that way eventually.

[Str8Putt]

9 hours ago, dalehead said:

And what if they bought tickets and protested on the course? Send in security and have them removed. The Kingdom would love seeing that video on the evening news and social media.

They'll get escorted off just like when they do it at soccer, basketball, baseball and any other venue.

It's nothing new and there isn't going to be any shock and awe from it. 

Also there's a fine line when protesting. You go too far and the ones who normally would be sympathetic to your cause may no longer be that way if you go overboard. 

[RobS]

5 hours ago, avrag said:

Are you sure, that there was a signed agreement for the Ryder Cup captain, which said that?
All I can imagine is an agreement, which includes a commitment to certain number of events on the European Tour. Much like what Sergio Garcia claims at the moment. And how did Stenson's LIV contract make it "effectively" impossible to honour both? Which tournaments he has to participate in are scheduled at the same time?

Yes.  The excerpt from the contract is below.  It was reported that Pelley, DP Tour CEO, included this in the contract due to Stenson's potential interest in joining LIV.  While USA Ryder Cup in owned by the PGA of America and not the PGA Tour, the DP Tour is the majority owner of the European Ryder Cup.

 

 "The successful candidate will be expected during his tenure to commit to supporting the Ryder Cup and the DP World Tour exclusively and therefore, by extension, not supporting or promoting other properties [including, without limitation, other Tours, Leagues, Series or Competitions]."

[mitchl]

13 hours ago, CCTxGolf said:

The Ryder cup could have allowed Stenson to continue as the captain. Why does he have to play on the PGAT to captain the Euros in the Ryder cup.

 

PGAT needs to play ball. They have monopolized the golf market for long enough. They forgot how to compromise.

really?   This is what Stenson said in March, just 4 months ago:

"The captain signs a contract. The captain has an agreement and those agreements are between Ryder Cup Europe and the captain. I'm fully committed to my role and working towards the result we want in Rome," Stenson said in March, the day of his appointment. 

Since LIV was happening in March, it’s likely the contract stipulated not working for another Tour.

 

Now he signs a new contract with that different tour which binds him to play in possibly 14 events or even more in 2023 in the year of the Ryder Cup.    Now I don’t know really how much work being a captain is, but if you are unavailable for more than one week every month, that would seem you are no longer “fully committed” to the Ryder Cup.

 

further, the outfit you signed with is causing a great deal of strife between players and fans.   So no rational person could choose this path and expect to continue as captain,

 

[mitchl]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

Greg Norman be like 

 

We’re a closed shop

 

Until someone half way appealing wants to join

 

🤣

 

 

 

bubba certainly fits the profile for a LIV golfer.   Major winner, mid 40s.   4 years since he last won.

 

the only part that surprises me is that his family seems really important to him, and now he us committing to so many set tournaments that he must play and has no choice about.

 

we will see if this is right.  I thought Cam or Hidecki was next.

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, idrive said:

 

Guess I'll never know as I'll never see her.

 

 

There's a reason. He has manifested this no less than 200+ times. IMO you're responding to a paid liv bot.  One of two I put on ignore several weeks ago.  I have no desire to read posts from bots that are here to do nothing but antagonize, gloat, spread rumor after rumor repeatedly.  Same BS over and over and over. Unfortunately, when he's (rarely) quoted I see the same drivel, again.

Yep. They have a way of ignoring me.  Eventually.  😂

[avrag]

36 minutes ago, RobS said:

Yes.  The excerpt from the contract is below.  It was reported that Pelley, DP Tour CEO, included this in the contract due to Stenson's potential interest in joining LIV.  While USA Ryder Cup in owned by the PGA of America and not the PGA Tour, the DP Tour is the majority owner of the European Ryder Cup.

 

 "The successful candidate will be expected during his tenure to commit to supporting the Ryder Cup and the DP World Tour exclusively and therefore, by extension, not supporting or promoting other properties [including, without limitation, other Tours, Leagues, Series or Competitions]."

So he wasn't allowed to play on the PGA Tour as well?

[smashdn]

10 hours ago, idrive said:

 

1) liv has very few of the "highest level of golfers" atm.

2) they are not qualified.

 

Please explain how they are qualified. I would suggest you do your homework before you try and answer that.

 

It's not the players that are trying to “tear down, compete against, and minimize the PGAT”

 

It's Greg Norman

 

Regarding "qualified," I am interpreting that as "exempt into the field."  I could be wrong but that was how I read that.  

 

That being the case, wouldn't Brooks, DJ, Phil and probably a few others be exempt into just about any field of any event on the PGA Tour?

 

Now obviously, at this juncture, DJ has resigned so he would not be, as well as any others who have resigned.

[ChipStrokes]

10 hours ago, dalehead said:

And what if they bought tickets and protested on the course? Send in security and have them removed. The Kingdom would love seeing that video on the evening news and social media.

the what-ifs are getting a little ridiculous, on both sides of the aisle here.

 

if the moral upper hand is the card the protestors are playing, crashing the gates with a hostile protest kind of undermines any credibility they might have. 

[smashdn]

55 minutes ago, jdl said:

Uh...OK? The weeks before and after a major has always had the problem of drawing the big names. You're not going to have great fields in each and every event. The majors, the Players and a half dozen other events will be where those top fields exist. Yeah we all want more but there's a limit with a niche sport like golf.

 

Personally I'd like to see the silly FedEx playoffs axed and some new off season events instead. I think (hope) we are headed that way eventually.

 

Isn't that what LIV has essentially given us and more importantly the players playing in those events?  It was pretty clear to me hearing from the guys who went early to LIV that they wanted to play about the number of events they were playing or a few less but have some more guaranteed money and not have the play-offs and not have the whole-year season thing.

 

If I had to guess, and this is only my guess, guys were playing in events they really didn't want to as they had to play "catch-up" with Fed-Ex cup points in order to make the year end play-off stuff.  Which is pretty clever by the PGAT to set it that way as it forced more of the big names into those "lesser attended" tournaments here and there.  I would have to go back and look but contractually did they all have to play the fed-ex events?

 

I tend to think the play-offs are stupid as well.  Made even more so with guys starting ahead of others based upon points or prior finishes or whatever.

 

I don't know what the future of LIV will be but in the short term, as disruptive as it has been, it has been the rocking of the boat needed to get the PGAT to change for both the benefit of the players and fans.  I wonder, and wish I could have been a fly on the wall, why the PGAT wheels did not make concessions to the players before all this went down when it was just a threat?

[GreatStrike]

2 hours ago, aus10KC said:

It has come up a few times and some presume these guys only play for money. Here is Eddie Pepperell who is like 500 in the world so LIV wouldn't be interested in him anyway except as a temporary filler. Anyway, he talks about not playing for money, however when he does play well money is a by product from that allowing him to do what he loves.

 

https://golf.com/news/eddie-pepperell-on-liv-golf-defections-and-why-hell-never-join/

 

Some guys are all about the $$$ and others are not. 

 

I'm sure Bubba Watson will sign, he is 43 and is coming off knee surgery. Perfect guy for LIV, has a big social media presence and two time masters champ. 

 

Bubba, being a two-time Masters Champ joining LIV has got to leave a nasty mark on the PGAT and dim-headed Jay Monahan. 💪  More to come! 😀

[RobS]

38 minutes ago, avrag said:

So he wasn't allowed to play on the PGA Tour as well?

I would assume he was permitted to play PGA Tour events due to the ‘strategic alliance’ between the PGA Tour and DP but that’s just a guess. 

[Fernk]

[tiderider]

1 hour ago, jdl said:

 

Yes we are sure. You clearly have access to the internet so it's fairly easy to validate this. And it was posted in this thread when it happened as well.

 

No it has nothing to do with playing in any events on the DP Tour. He agreed not to support other competing "tours", i.e. LIV. So pretty clear cut what would happened when he signed with LIV.

 

 

Uh...OK? The weeks before and after a major has always had the problem of drawing the big names. You're not going to have great fields in each and every event. The majors, the Players and a half dozen other events will be where those top fields exist. Yeah we all want more but there's a limit with a niche sport like golf.

 

Personally I'd like to see the silly FedEx playoffs axed and some new off season events instead. I think (hope) we are headed that way eventually.

that would be a nice zig to the liv's zag ... the whole playoffs/team format thing just isn't going to work, imo ... golf isn't football or a team sport ... they get rid of one of the three playoff events, maybe spread out the schedule a bit more ... (would be great if the Open would move to one week later) ... have one event for the top 100, with added points, even ... everybody gets a check ... then a final big one of the top 75 or so, and everybody gets a check again ... somehow take the money from the missing 3rd event and use it in there somewhere ... not sure how to get the sponsor in there against fedex, tho i'm sure there's a way ... call it a year ... start over ... 

[woahnelly]

Seems Greg is targeting all the Augusta winners kind of forcing their hand. IF rumors of Hideki and Scott join are true, the only other remaining winners in recent memory would be Scottie, Crippled Tiger, Speith, Danny Willet, convict Angel Cabrera, and retired Trevor Immelman. 

[tiderider]

55 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Isn't that what LIV has essentially given us and more importantly the players playing in those events?  It was pretty clear to me hearing from the guys who went early to LIV that they wanted to play about the number of events they were playing or a few less but have some more guaranteed money and not have the play-offs and not have the whole-year season thing.

 

If I had to guess, and this is only my guess, guys were playing in events they really didn't want to as they had to play "catch-up" with Fed-Ex cup points in order to make the year end play-off stuff.  Which is pretty clever by the PGAT to set it that way as it forced more of the big names into those "lesser attended" tournaments here and there.  I would have to go back and look but contractually did they all have to play the fed-ex events?

 

I tend to think the play-offs are stupid as well.  Made even more so with guys starting ahead of others based upon points or prior finishes or whatever.

 

I don't know what the future of LIV will be but in the short term, as disruptive as it has been, it has been the rocking of the boat needed to get the PGAT to change for both the benefit of the players and fans.  I wonder, and wish I could have been a fly on the wall, why the PGAT wheels did not make concessions to the players before all this went down when it was just a threat?

and the thing is, plenty of us have talked since the olympics were added about the need to remove some events, esp one of the wgc events ... unfortunately, it took the pandemic to do that ... 

 

i think one thing that is fairly clear is that the pga needs a new commissioner ... i don't think monahan is the captain for these waters ... 

[aus10KC]

34 minutes ago, Hocus_Pocus said:

 

Bubba, being a two-time Masters Champ joining LIV has got to leave a nasty mark on the PGAT and dim-headed Jay Monahan. 💪  More to come! 😀

 

I think they'll be fine. Plus I don't think Bubba is all that well liked amongst his peers even though he is a fan favorite. 

[Ghost of Snead]

40 minutes ago, Hocus_Pocus said:

 

Bubba, being a two-time Masters Champ joining LIV has got to leave a nasty mark on the PGAT and dim-headed Jay Monahan. 💪  More to come! 😀

 

Sure thing - let us know when David Gossett puts pen to paper. 🤡

[PorkChopExpress]

Not sure why Linksoul would respond to that question?
They're not his agent

 

lol

[the bishop]

30 minutes ago, Fernk said:

Well that settles that. 

[Shortgamemagic]

1 hour ago, mitchl said:

 

bubba certainly fits the profile for a LIV golfer.   Major winner, mid 40s.   4 years since he last won.

 

the only part that surprises me is that his family seems really important to him, and now he us committing to so many set tournaments that he must play and has no choice about.

 

we will see if this is right.  I thought Cam or Hidecki was next.

Another hypocritical flag waver. Perfect for liv 

[Krt22]

3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Yep. I asked this at the beginning.  Doesn’t seem to be a known thing.  But how do you go to Saudi Arabia and sue the princes parent sport  company in court ?  The answer is. You can’t.  

If I had to guess, it would not be radically different than any other sports contract. X amount of guaranteed, X amount up front, the rest paid via yearly salary, with some stipulations based on total events played, total marketing appearances, etc

 

These guys are essentially entertainers at this point, the promotional videos where they sound like used car salesmen are phenomenal. 

[smashdn]

28 minutes ago, aus10KC said:

 

I think they'll be fine. Plus I don't think Bubba is all that well liked amongst his peers even though he is a fan favorite. 

 

It is strategic not to attract more players.

 

As another poster mentioned, this cuts The Masters legs to an extent.

 

Big picture when one major decides to exclude players based upon what tour they play on, this sets up a scenario where if a player on that tour that is not invited/eligible to play wins, they cut themselves from the hype of a potential grand slam.

 

Like horse racing when the Kentucky Derby winner is held out of the Preakness.  It kills interest in the Preakness.  And on the other hand, if the KY Derby winner runs in and wins the Preakness, the eyes on the Belmont are exponentially more.

Edited July 27, 2022 by smashdn

[CCTxGolf]

3 hours ago, Shortgamemagic said:

Disagree 100%. Plus Stenson was on the DP tour not PGAT to be eligible for Ryder cup captain. 

the DP Tour is not who governs the Euro Team. It’s a separate institution. 
 

Stenson was a member of both Tours. 
 

The PGAT is the original group pushing for bans and the main influence for Euro Ryder Cups actions.

[CCTxGolf]

13 hours ago, RobS said:

The PGAT has nothing to do with Stenson being or not being captain.  That's in the DP World Tour's hands.  Stenson signed an agreement that effectively didn't allow him to join LIV and remain captain of the team.  If he didn't agree with the terms, he should have tried to negotiate the terms before signing or not signed on as captain at all.  The PGA and DP Tours don't need to play ball. That's like saying LIV needed to play ball and hold Stenson's offer until after the Ryder Cup.

The DP Tour doesn’t govern the Euro Team.

[CCTxGolf]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

Regarding "qualified," I am interpreting that as "exempt into the field."  I could be wrong but that was how I read that.  

 

That being the case, wouldn't Brooks, DJ, Phil and probably a few others be exempt into just about any field of any event on the PGA Tour?

 

Now obviously, at this juncture, DJ has resigned so he would not be, as well as any others who have resigned.

You read It correctly. Thank you. 

[GreatStrike]

20 minutes ago, the bishop said:

Well that settles that. 

 

The announcement said: 

 

Bubba Watson is expected to be the next player announced to join LIV. The announcement will made at LIV Bedminster. Bubba will join LIV in 2023

[Fernk]

39 minutes ago, PorkChopExpress said:

Not sure why Linksoul would respond to that question?
They're not his agent

 

lol

He is part owner?

[PorkChopExpress]

10 minutes ago, Fernk said:

He is part owner?

 

why would customer service rep respond to those question slol

[aus10KC]

32 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

It is strategic not to attract more players.

 

As another poster mentioned, this cuts The Masters legs to an extent.

 

Big picture when one major decides to exclude players based upon what tour they play on, this sets up a scenario where if a player on that tour that is not invited/eligible to play wins, they cut themselves from the hype of a potential grand slam.

 

Like horse racing when the Kentucky Derby winner is held out of the Preakness.  It kills interest in the Preakness.  And on the other hand, if the KY Derby winner runs in and wins the Preakness, the eyes on the Belmont are exponentially more.

 

 

I don't see why ANGC would keep out past winners just because they play on LIV... However players who are not former champions may have a hard time getting in. PGAT provides a path to playing in the Masters and is a very big deal to most players.