Please take five minutes and read this article

[leezer99]

https://firepitcollective.com/what-the-ncaas-mental-health-crisis-means-for-college-golf/

[iGolf67]

I knew a young man who went to a D1 school on a golf scholarship. He transferred after the first year to a D2 school as the combination of golf and academics was a bit too much for him. He had a schedule that mapped his day from waking up to going to bed.  He said his life was golf and school with no real opportunities to decompress. 

 

That said, many D1 athletes matriculate without having any serious issues, but there are those that do and it's important that any sports program they are involved in makes it clear up front that if a student/athlete is having any issues there are avenues he/she can pursue to get help without any stigma being attached to them. 

[Medson]

Really great article. The article did a good job to raise the issue that, I assume, is not foreign to any of us. However, it is little light on substance besides it is okay to seek help.

 

My daughter is young and has played tournaments for a while. One philosophical shift I'm trying to make is more "inward looking". In other words, focus on ourselves or take care ourselves. A lot of parents talk about "needing to win" or "measure up against this or that kid". It gave me no pleasure for my kid to beat another kid. I knew someone uses my daughter as measuring stick, which annoys me. By virtue of practicing, my daughter will become better at golf. I'm trying to see if this new mindset can (hopefully) make us a mental healthier family. It is a work-in-progress, it might take years. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Medson

[DevilDog]

Always has been this way for college athletes.  I played college baseball in the late 70s.  Play fall season, then spring season practice starts in January not to mention the short off season workouts in November & December.  Summer was finding a collegiate league, I did Cape Cod, and playing every day.  I loved it.  I would say if a kid is stressing too much about their sport at the competitive level they probably should get out for their own mental well being.  Have to have other interests other than the sport to keep yourself from burnout.  I played around with the guitar and rode dirt motorcycles as much as I could.  

[vandyfan]

I played college soccer in the early 2000s. I was relatively burnt out by the time I was finished. When I look at how kids are specializing more, training more, "optimizing" more, it seems like sports have become less fun for kids at the highest levels. Add in Covid and the pressure of keeping your scholarship as tuition continues to skyrocket is a real problem.

[NJBigFish22]

I watched a recent YT by No Laying Up about a week with the Stanford Women’s team.  Very interesting how the coach really tried to get her players to take breaks and try to be normal.  Some of the girls said school was hard, but practicing for 4-6 hours a day, probably lends to stress and potential burn out.  If your going this route you need to understand the advantages, but also some of the downside, cause with the money colleges invest in these programs, you can’t just “mail it in” and rely on talent or getting breaks.  Someone will be happy to replace you.

 

I played college baseball and it was a grind.  I have also met a lot of D1 athletes and there days are mapped out, but this can be a benefit later in life, not only time management, but healthy lifestyles.  

[heavy_hitter]

My daughter played D1 golf.  I can tell you there are serious mental health issues that were swept under the rug at her University within all of the athletic programs.  My daughter's coach at UNC Charlotte was given the option to resign rather than be fired under allegations of Racism, Mental Abuse, and Sexual Harassment.  The Athletic Department was going to do nothing until the a group working with the girl's sent the issue to the President of the University and it became a Personnel Issue with HR.  The University system in Division 1 NCAA athletics is set up to benefit the coaches with little to no regards to the mental and physical health of the students.  There are programs in place, but like anything, the coaches know how to abuse the system.  I find it worse in women's sports than men's sports  because the female coaches "need to prove themselves."

 

I have said I will tell her story here.  I have hinted at it a couple of times, but still don't think the timing is right.  What happened with all of the girl's was disgusting.

Edited June 1, 2022 by heavy_hitter

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

2 hours ago, DevilDog said:

Always has been this way for college athletes.  I played college baseball in the late 70s.  Play fall season, then spring season practice starts in January not to mention the short off season workouts in November & December.  Summer was finding a collegiate league, I did Cape Cod, and playing every day.  I loved it.  I would say if a kid is stressing too much about their sport at the competitive level they probably should get out for their own mental well being.  Have to have other interests other than the sport to keep yourself from burnout.  I played around with the guitar and rode dirt motorcycles as much as I could.  

^^^ this and the part folks don't talk about. 

 

Community service projects

Donation calls

The university had a day where they hosted kids with special needs.  So the team taught them grip and fundamental swings.

 

Its not alot, but it's not high school anymore.

 

Personally, my son has Army ROTC as well.  He is basically up at 4"45 and goes to bed about 11pm or so.  Down days he is sleeping by 7.

 

Golf or ROTC in college is hard enough by themselves but he has been able to hold up so far.

[DevilDog]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:19 PM, heavy_hitter said:

My daughter played D1 golf.  I can tell you there are serious mental health issues that were swept under the rug at her University within all of the athletic programs.  My daughter's coach at UNC Charlotte was given the option to resign rather than be fired under allegations of Racism, Mental Abuse, and Sexual Harassment.  The Athletic Department was going to do nothing until the a group working with the girl's sent the issue to the President of the University and it became a Personnel Issue with HR.  The University system in Division 1 NCAA athletics is set up to benefit the coaches with little to no regards to the mental and physical health of the students.  There are programs in place, but like anything, the coaches know how to abuse the system.  I find it worse in women's sports than men's sports  because the female coaches "need to prove themselves."

 

I have said I will tell her story here.  I have hinted at it a couple of times, but still don't think the timing is right.  What happened with all of the girl's was disgusting.

 

Reality is that a coach's livelihood is made from how well these kids perform so the pressure is huge on the kids.  Was that way when I played baseball way back when and probably worse today with the big money.  Player time is regimented, expectations are always high, not much down time.  Players have to find a way to get through the grind.  No excuse for a coach for being abusive, racist, or harassing at all.  NONE.  Best coaches demand a lot but also treat their kids with respect, dignity and a true concern for their well being.  My baseball coach was like this.  Demanding as all hell but he truly cared about us and his actions proved that.  

[heavy_hitter]

3 hours ago, DevilDog said:

 

Reality is that a coach's livelihood is made from how well these kids perform so the pressure is huge on the kids.  Was that way when I played baseball way back when and probably worse today with the big money.  Player time is regimented, expectations are always high, not much down time.  Players have to find a way to get through the grind.  No excuse for a coach for being abusive, racist, or harassing at all.  NONE.  Best coaches demand a lot but also treat their kids with respect, dignity and a true concern for their well being.  My baseball coach was like this.  Demanding as all hell but he truly cared about us and his actions proved that.  

I get it.  It is also women's college golf.  In the grand scheme of things no one cares unless you are Stanford, Alabama, Wake, Duke, or Vandy.

 

When 70%+ of the team has to seek psychological counseling, 50%+ have to take anxiety meds, and 40%+ have eating disorders, something is wrong.

[tiger1873]

At the end of the day it is all about the coach and how you get along with them.   Just picking a school because their ranked high or gave you a good deal can lead to problems.

 

If you are on the same page as the program you joined everything is going to work out.   I know some kids don't practice a lot but I could see it being pretty annoying to be on a team where the other players just do not care.  

[Bizzle80]

I don't know because my kid isn't close to worrying about college golf, but I can see how hard these kids are on themselves at even young ages. Cant even imagine the pressure they put on themselves at competitive colleges. I would imagine even a good coach has to manage the player's own expectations as much as anything.

 

Anyone watch the No Laying Up film about Stanford's womens team? good viewing...and interesting to see how their coach approaches everything.

[DevilDog]

On 6/3/2022 at 12:26 PM, heavy_hitter said:

I get it.  It is also women's college golf.  In the grand scheme of things no one cares unless you are Stanford, Alabama, Wake, Duke, or Vandy.

 

When 70%+ of the team has to seek psychological counseling, 50%+ have to take anxiety meds, and 40%+ have eating disorders, something is wrong.

 

Not disagreeing.  It's a tough business for the players.  Big adjustment from high school and even tournament golf.  Now have expectations placed on you by a coach and the coach always feels under pressure for his job.  Vicious cycle.

[caniac6]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:21 PM, DevilDog said:

Always has been this way for college athletes.  I played college baseball in the late 70s.  Play fall season, then spring season practice starts in January not to mention the short off season workouts in November & December.  Summer was finding a collegiate league, I did Cape Cod, and playing every day.  I loved it.  I would say if a kid is stressing too much about their sport at the competitive level they probably should get out for their own mental well being.  Have to have other interests other than the sport to keep yourself from burnout.  I played around with the guitar and rode dirt motorcycles as much as I could.  

I was involved with college basketball back in the 70s, and it seems like sports are more year round, and the coaching seems more intense these days. My nephew played high school baseball this past season as a freshman. He trains all year, and only plays baseball. Back in my time, we played all sports, depending on the season. These kids are placing too much pressure on themselves. 

[leezer99]

5 hours ago, Bizzle80 said:

I don't know because my kid isn't close to worrying about college golf, but I can see how hard these kids are on themselves at even young ages. Cant even imagine the pressure they put on themselves at competitive colleges. I would imagine even a good coach has to manage the player's own expectations as much as anything.

 

Anyone watch the No Laying Up film about Stanford's womens team? good viewing...and interesting to see how their coach approaches everything.

I think she won coach of the year.  

[MattM97]

I'm a former NCAA athlete from the 2010s and can say a lot of D1 sports are cutthroat, I went the JUCO route so I was recruited in high school and again my second year of college. It would go from 1 week as buddy buddy and the next week you didn't exist to them. The offers with timed deadlines were awful, like I'd have to base the final 2 years of my education and path to my life in a 24-48hr window and if I didn't it was gone and I could go back, I remember being so distracted then and same with my teammates, luckily our coaches were not new to this and were a great help talking us through it. 

 

I originally signed my NLI to a Power 5 school in the south, found out not long after I was injured and needed surgery and figured I could redshirt and rehab. Well about 1 month before I should have been on campus I'm informed they won't honor my scholarship and have to earn a spot on the team. They offered me a full release, no restrictions even to in conference school that's how little faith they had in me, again cutthroat after being buddy, buddy. 

 

I ended up at a D2 school and while my school had lofty goals my coach (bless that man honestly) gave me a year to redshirt and rehab before I officially competed for the school. My redshirt year was rough and we had a lot of sit down talks about my future, if this was D1 I would have been done but he could see I had something to prove and keep me on with that faith it took a 50ton weight off my back and I began to thrive. 

 

Next year I ended up being ranked top 3 in my event, 2x All-American, 1x conference champ, 1x conference runner up, part of a 2x runner up team at nationals. I got a chance I probably wouldn't have gotten in D1 and was able to grow and thrive, from that point on I was a big advocate of going to D2 or D3 school, you don't get the nice stuff and facilities in most cases but you get way more mental support and are allowed to grow as a person vs being so worried about performing at every single event. 

 

It's just my story but I can definitely say my year where I accomplished all that was one of my most memorable years ever coming off some of my worst years mentally. 

[chrissdc]

21 hours ago, MattM97 said:

I'm a former NCAA athlete from the 2010s and can say a lot of D1 sports are cutthroat, I went the JUCO route so I was recruited in high school and again my second year of college. It would go from 1 week as buddy buddy and the next week you didn't exist to them. The offers with timed deadlines were awful, like I'd have to base the final 2 years of my education and path to my life in a 24-48hr window and if I didn't it was gone and I could go back, I remember being so distracted then and same with my teammates, luckily our coaches were not new to this and were a great help talking us through it. 

 

I originally signed my NLI to a Power 5 school in the south, found out not long after I was injured and needed surgery and figured I could redshirt and rehab. Well about 1 month before I should have been on campus I'm informed they won't honor my scholarship and have to earn a spot on the team. They offered me a full release, no restrictions even to in conference school that's how little faith they had in me, again cutthroat after being buddy, buddy. 

 

I ended up at a D2 school and while my school had lofty goals my coach (bless that man honestly) gave me a year to redshirt and rehab before I officially competed for the school. My redshirt year was rough and we had a lot of sit down talks about my future, if this was D1 I would have been done but he could see I had something to prove and keep me on with that faith it took a 50ton weight off my back and I began to thrive. 

 

Next year I ended up being ranked top 3 in my event, 2x All-American, 1x conference champ, 1x conference runner up, part of a 2x runner up team at nationals. I got a chance I probably wouldn't have gotten in D1 and was able to grow and thrive, from that point on I was a big advocate of going to D2 or D3 school, you don't get the nice stuff and facilities in most cases but you get way more mental support and are allowed to grow as a person vs being so worried about performing at every single event. 

 

It's just my story but I can definitely say my year where I accomplished all that was one of my most memorable years ever coming off some of my worst years mentally. 

I’m curious why the D1 school wouldn’t honor your scholarship after signing a NLI.

My kid was injured after signing the NLI and before going to school. My kid was unable to play or practice the summer before college and missed the first event because of injury. What we were told by not just the school, was that the NLI locks a player in for at least a school year.

[MattM97]

35 minutes ago, chrissdc said:

I’m curious why the D1 school wouldn’t honor your scholarship after signing a NLI.

My kid was injured after signing the NLI and before going to school. My kid was unable to play or practice the summer before college and missed the first event because of injury. What we were told by not just the school, was that the NLI locks a player in for at least a school year.

 

No idea was never really given an answer, I even asked if redshirting was possible since I haven't at this point but was no go. I just think they didn't want to deal with me and wanted my scholarship to go to someone else they were recruiting. 

 

In the end I don't mind my NCAA career while short (NCAA took my senior year from me) it was great. I even got the opportunity to compete for team Canada. So if I could go back and do it again I'd go to the D2 school I ended up at from the start. I didn't get the endless gear and top class facilities but I had enough to work hard and had that support I needed too.

 

Thats what I tell a lot of athletes don't dismiss D2 schools and a lot of times people transfer into a D1 school and do extremely well. 

[chrissdc]

1 minute ago, MattM97 said:

 

No idea was never really given an answer, I even asked if redshirting was possible since I haven't at this point but was no go. I just think they didn't want to deal with me and wanted my scholarship to go to someone else they were recruiting. 

 

In the end I don't mind my NCAA career while short (NCAA took my senior year from me) it was great. I even got the opportunity to compete for team Canada. So if I could go back and do it again I'd go to the D2 school I ended up at from the start. I didn't get the endless gear and top class facilities but I had enough to work hard and had that support I needed too.

 

Thats what I tell a lot of athletes don't dismiss D2 schools and a lot of times people transfer into a D1 school and do extremely well. 

What I was trying to determine is how they can pull back your scholarship after you sign your NLI. The NLI protects you for at least a year.

[MattM97]

15 minutes ago, chrissdc said:

What I was trying to determine is how they can pull back your scholarship after you sign your NLI. The NLI protects you for at least a year.

 

Well I wasn't in school for a year to get surgery and rehab so maybe my year ran its course when I wasn't there. 

[Abh159]

48 minutes ago, chrissdc said:

What I was trying to determine is how they can pull back your scholarship after you sign your NLI. The NLI protects you for at least a year.

 

NLI is legally binding outside of very specific scenarios (which the NCAA outlines). Simply being injured is not one of those.

 

In @MattM97's case it sound like he chose (willingly or unwillingly) to delay enrolling in the university for medical reasons. Not enrolling for that upcoming period is one of the scenarios in which an NLI can be voided.

 

That being said... Schools and coaches can definitely discourage you from coming or encourage you to pursue other options, but they simply cannot void an NLI after it's been signed unless the situation meets one of the NCAA's criteria for doing so.

[chrissdc]

3 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

NLI is legally binding outside of very specific scenarios (which the NCAA outlines). Simply being injured is not one of those.

 

In @MattM97's case it sound like he chose (willingly or unwillingly) to delay enrolling in the university for medical reasons. Not enrolling for that upcoming period is one of the scenarios in which an NLI can be voided.

 

That being said... Schools and coaches can definitely discourage you from coming or encourage you to pursue other options, but they simply cannot void an NLI after it's been signed unless the situation meets one of the NCAA's criteria for doing so.

This is the point I was trying to make.

[MattM97]

8 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

NLI is legally binding outside of very specific scenarios (which the NCAA outlines). Simply being injured is not one of those.

 

In @MattM97's case it sound like he chose (willingly or unwillingly) to delay enrolling in the university for medical reasons. Not enrolling for that upcoming period is one of the scenarios in which an NLI can be voided.

 

That being said... Schools and coaches can definitely discourage you from coming or encourage you to pursue other options, but they simply cannot void an NLI after it's been signed unless the situation meets one of the NCAA's criteria for doing so.

 

8 hours ago, chrissdc said:

This is the point I was trying to make.

 

They basically said they didn't want me to come and that's why they offered the full release so I took it. I was broken goods to them and would have cost more than I was worth in their eyes.

 

I don't really want to hijack this thread anymore than I already have. I just wanted to show how cutthroat and ruthless D1 schools are, for many people they would have quit or been discouraged to continue school but I was stubborn and wanted to prove something.

[Petethreeput]

I played a DIII non-revenue sport, and for the last 3 years we were nationally ranked.  The surrounding DI schools dropped us from their schedules because they couldn't afford the egg on their face if they lost, and this is who we were:

The coach was part time, and made his money elsewhere so he didn't put any expectations or demands on us further than, "Play your absolute hardest."  Since we didn't have any outside pressure to perform it was fun, our team was cohesive, and during the off-season we didn't have to think about our sport daily.  If we continued to play in the off season it was because we wanted to hang out together.

Athletic stress and performance anxiety and depression can only exist when the outcome of a game is valued greater than the sport.  This is the result of the money in sport, the ESPN-afication of sport is killing sports for what they should be.  The money these coaches make creates external pressure on the athletes.  Television schedules put more pressure on the athletes.  The school's put more pressure on the kids.

It is a world we (as TV viewers) have created.

Think about John Wooden, and all of his statements about sport.  His approach can't work today because while it was demanding, it was demanding on performance not outcomes.  Today it is the exact opposite for these kids.

[golfortennis]

17 hours ago, MattM97 said:

 

 

They basically said they didn't want me to come and that's why they offered the full release so I took it. I was broken goods to them and would have cost more than I was worth in their eyes.

 

I don't really want to hijack this thread anymore than I already have. I just wanted to show how cutthroat and ruthless D1 schools are, for many people they would have quit or been discouraged to continue school but I was stubborn and wanted to prove something.

 

I don't think you should apologize.  Your story is what needs to be known.  You were basically told they didn't want you there anymore.  Guaranteed a high school kid getting recruited never has that scenario crossing their minds, until it happens.  People need to know the NCAA is not about the athlete or student's best interest.  Gotta use them as much as they use you.

[MattM97]

Just now, golfortennis said:

 

I don't think you should apologize.  Your story is what needs to be known.  You were basically told they didn't want you there anymore.  Guaranteed a high school kid getting recruited never has that scenario crossing their minds, until it happens.  People need to know the NCAA is not about the athlete or student's best interest.  Gotta use them as much as they use you.

 

Exactly the NCAA even took away my senior year for a competition they deemed "out of season" despite no one else there at that meet not facing any punishment as well and me having written backing by the event director.

 

I'm not a fan of the NCAA but if a student can get their education covered and play a sport they enjoy do it, but no one should praise the NCAA, they're as corrupt as any other sports federation. 

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, Petethreeput said:

I played a DIII non-revenue sport, and for the last 3 years we were nationally ranked.  The surrounding DI schools dropped us from their schedules because they couldn't afford the egg on their face if they lost, and this is who we were:

The coach was part time, and made his money elsewhere so he didn't put any expectations or demands on us further than, "Play your absolute hardest."  Since we didn't have any outside pressure to perform it was fun, our team was cohesive, and during the off-season we didn't have to think about our sport daily.  If we continued to play in the off season it was because we wanted to hang out together.

Athletic stress and performance anxiety and depression can only exist when the outcome of a game is valued greater than the sport.  This is the result of the money in sport, the ESPN-afication of sport is killing sports for what they should be.  The money these coaches make creates external pressure on the athletes.  Television schedules put more pressure on the athletes.  The school's put more pressure on the kids.

It is a world we (as TV viewers) have created.

Think about John Wooden, and all of his statements about sport.  His approach can't work today because while it was demanding, it was demanding on performance not outcomes.  Today it is the exact opposite for these kids.

 

Sure, but don't forget Wooden's players didn't have money concerns either.......

 

Don't disagree with the rest you said, but Wooden's methods look a lot better when Lew Alcindor or Bill Walton is demonstrating them than Lou Hughes or Bill Jackson.

[Petethreeput]

6 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Sure, but don't forget Wooden's players didn't have money concerns either.......

 

Don't disagree with the rest you said, but Wooden's methods look a lot better when Lew Alcindor or Bill Walton is demonstrating them than Lou Hughes or Bill Jackson.

Oh heck yeah, I agree. But in 30 years we won’t hear about Saban like this. It’ll be he recruited and won. Coaching is now recruiting. That was my point. That’s why Mark Few is so remarkable at Gonzaga. It’s win or die.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Petethreeput

[golfortennis]

10 hours ago, Petethreeput said:

Oh heck yeah, I agree. But in 30 years we won’t hear about Saban like this. It’ll be he recruited and won. Coaching is now recruiting. That was my point. That’s why Mark Few is so remarkable at Gonzaga. It’s win or die.

 

I have to admit I find it amazing that Saban was able to recruit so cleanly all those years prior to the NIL, and then his QB was able to sign for a million $.  Boy that booster must have really been glad he could finally, finally! help out the boys.  Cause rules, you know...  😉

[heavy_hitter]

On 6/10/2022 at 3:05 PM, golfortennis said:

 

I don't think you should apologize.  Your story is what needs to be known.  You were basically told they didn't want you there anymore.  Guaranteed a high school kid getting recruited never has that scenario crossing their minds, until it happens.  People need to know the NCAA is not about the athlete or student's best interest.  Gotta use them as much as they use you.

^^^^^  100% Truth.  NCAA is about protecting the integrity of the school, athletic programs, and coaches at all costs.  Not what it used to be, but what it is about today.