LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[bladehunter]

8 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

This is true. Compare it to the PGAT..... the place where Monahan can delete any golfers he chooses to delete even if they have some of the best careers in the history of golf.

 

Wiki has the accurate lifetime earnings list.  NOT the PGAT website.

 

It's embarrassing that Wiki, which can be edited by anybody, would be more accurate than the PGAT website.

I’d say it’s accurate for current pga tour players. Or players on good standing. 

[bladehunter]

8 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

The only question in my mind is "do you want to have the best US players on the US team?"  If the answer is yes, then it shouldn't matter what tour they play or if they are a club pro.  Nobody should be disqualified for the tour they choose to play or to not play.  The only legitimate debate is about who the best 12 US golfers are at selection time.

That’s incredibly subjective though.  One of the 12 best us players might still be in college.  But they don’t qualify due to where they play or don’t play.  Same as the LIV.    
 

Brooks might or might not even qualify as such . Who are we comparing him to , as far as team play record. His isn’t stellar.  6-5-1 I believe. That’s basically a coin flip . 

[Purple Toupee]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

 

Brooks, had a pattern of not caring or playing well in regular events and bringing his A game to majors. Beating him at an event he does not care about is not that special. 

Yet he’s won 2 LIV events.  By your logic LIV events must be a lot closer to majors than regular PGAT events.

[Shilgy]

15 minutes ago, Purple Toupee said:

Yet he’s won 2 LIV events.  By your logic LIV events must be a lot closer to majors than regular PGAT events.

Or, using the same logic….LIV events are not vert talented top to bottom because even an “I don’t care” Koepka is able to win a couple.

[Purple Toupee]

43 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’d say it’s accurate for current pga tour players. Or players on good standing. 

Some of us just want it to be accurate, without any stipulations.

[mitchl]

On 5/21/2023 at 8:36 PM, ahenderX said:

In Phil’s post PGA presser he revealed “I know things others don’t”. I’m open to suggestions what this might be.

Maybe some inside knowledge on a stock?   He's known that before when others didn't.

 

[HomaComa]

13 hours ago, fowlerscousin said:

This win for brooks is huge for liv. It says a lot if you win a liv event with brooks in the field.

Brooks is leaving LIV the minute his contact is up in 2 years time. He doesn’t care about the exhibition league lol

[2bGood]

14 hours ago, Purple Toupee said:

Yet he’s won 2 LIV events.  By your logic LIV events must be a lot closer to majors than regular PGAT events.

Or by my logic LIV can be won without much effort or interest by him.

 

BTY this was not a shot at LIV. Brooks has said himself on many occasions he does not get excited about regular events.

 

“It’s tough to focus like that for — I’m going to be flat out honest. I can’t focus. A major I get excited and I feel stuff on the first tee; I just struggle to do that in regular events. The focus and discipline is there in a major where it’s not here. I kind of go for everything.”

Edited May 23, 2023 by 2bGood

[PedronNiall]

I'm wondering what drives decisions one way or another when it comes to sponsorships at this point. TM cut DJ from all ads and players events while Adidas didn't renew with him. Titleist similarly removed Cam Smith from their site and all materials. Srixon had their "major" ad running with Koepka in the 3rd slot this past weekend and has him prominently featured on the main page currently. Nike hasn't pulled any contracts AFAIK and don't run features the way they used to when they had a full lineup of gear so no real difference there.

 

Interesting seeing it play out so differently between brands.

[MoeMoe]

That's better Rory. 

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, Purple Toupee said:

Yet he’s won 2 LIV events.  By your logic LIV events must be a lot closer to majors than regular PGAT events.

Or …. They’re so easy that a “no care “brooks can simply show up and win a certain percentage of the time.  

[ahenderX]

17 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Which reasons align with why you personally believe this?

 

I tend to side more with Faxon and that the Ryder Cup is not wholly the property of the PGAT and DPWT (and by extension also the PGAT again).  The PGA of America is the custodian of the Ryder Cup process in the US and a 60/20/20 split between the DWPT and PGA of GBI and PGA of Europe per wikipedia.  It would seem a decision to exclude LIV players based upon their professional tour allegiance would not be consistent when the PGA of America allowed them to play in the PGA Championship and when I am assuming an American born player playing exclusively on the DPWT/Euro in the past would have been eligible as well.  To the best of my knowledge the American professional golfers on LIV are still PGA of A members.  When I searched the PGA of A member directory just now the LIV guys are there.

I have changed my opinion on Koepka. If the Ryder Cup players want him to play,  Johnson should pick him.

[tiderider]

12 hours ago, NormanFan said:

 

Except those WGC events happened like three times a year.  LIV is running what, like 14 events a year?  Plus, I'd argue that the 16 player difference is big, especially when you consider the quality top to bottom of those WGC events versus what LIV has, which are very stratified in terms of ability.

one would think that goes without saying, but apparently not ... LIV events aren't in the same universe as a wgc event in terms of talent/depth ... 

[tiderider]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/golf/2023/05/22/sergio-garcia-qualifies-us-open-tiger-woods-withdraws/51517509/

 

see ... there IS a pathway to the majors for liv players ... play well in the US Open and one could be invited to the others (sergio obviously already qualifies for one of them) ... 

[GreatStrike]

3 hours ago, MoeMoe said:

That's better Rory. 

 

Wouldn't it be nice if Jay Monahan was man enough to reciprocate and congratulate the 2023 PGA Championship winner, Brooks Koepka?  

 

What some PGAT players have said:

 

“Brooks dominated this day. Guy knows how to play in majors, incredibly impressive! Congrats to Brooks and his team on another trophy” – Justin Thomas, two-time PGA Championship winner 

 

“Brooks is a great player, and now he has five majors. I mean, that's a hell of a record right there. It's not easy going toe to toe with a guy like that. He is not going to give you anything.” – Viktor Hovland, 2023 PGA Championship runner-up (T-2) 

 

“Greatest player in Majors in the last 15 years! Congrats to @BKoepka on his 5th Major! Awesome job buddy!” – Billy Horschel 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by GreatStrike
orthography

[King_Slender]

1 hour ago, ahenderX said:

I have changed my opinion on Koepka. If the Ryder Cup players want him to play,  Johnson should pick him.

 

You can tell that the Likes of DL3 are pulling strings behind the scenes with Zach Johnson.  

[Ghost of Snead]

36 minutes ago, GreatStrike said:

 

Wouldn't it be nice if Jay Monahan was man enough to reciprocate and congratulate the 2023 PGA Championship winner, Brooks Koepka?  

 

What some PGAT players have said:

 

“Brooks dominated this day. Guy knows how to play in majors, incredibly impressive! Congrats to Brooks and his team on another trophy” – Justin Thomas, two-time PGA Championship winner 

 

“Brooks is a great player, and now he has five majors. I mean, that's a hell of a record right there. It's not easy going toe to toe with a guy like that. He is not going to give you anything.” – Viktor Hovland, 2023 PGA Championship runner-up (T-2) 

 

“Greatest player in Majors in the last 15 years! Congrats to @BKoepka on his 5th Major! Awesome job buddy!” – Billy Horschel 

 

 

 

 

Monahan went to Koepka's wedding - how do you know he has not congratulated Brooks privately ? 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by Ghost of Snead

[aus10KC]

On 5/22/2023 at 9:06 AM, Golferpaul said:

I'm posting these quotes from memory, so maybe some can help with my quotes;

 

LIV hater quotes:

• These guys are all washed up
• Nobody wants to watch these washed up guys
• Playing guaranteed money events will make them less competitive
• Playing no-cut events will make them less competitive
• etc.

But look at this!  These "washed up, non-competitive" guys placed T2, T2, and T4 at the Masters then 1st and T4 at the PGA.  Can we all just agree that golf tournaments are better when they include ALL of the best golfers?  Not just the ones that Monahan hasn't scrubbed from his website. 

 

Westwood, Kaymer, Poulter ect... Can they compete week in week out on the PGAT? 

 

LIV paid for some great golfers... DJ, Cam, Brooks

 

But I'm not going to lump Lee Westwood in with that group.

[idrive]

Brooks winning doesn't validate liv. Brooks was Brooks long before going to liv.

 

It's been said over and over they have a handful of guys that are some of the best players in the world.  You'd expect these handful to continue to be relevant.  As far as the rest of livs field they are truly a bunch of names that are well past their prime or have no history of having any relevance or elite status,

 

Nothings changed.

 

Congrats to Brooks.

 

 

[Noles]

1 hour ago, GreatStrike said:

 

Wouldn't it be nice if Jay Monahan was man enough to reciprocate and congratulate the 2023 PGA Championship winner, Brooks Koepka?  

 

What some PGAT players have said:

 

“Brooks dominated this day. Guy knows how to play in majors, incredibly impressive! Congrats to Brooks and his team on another trophy” – Justin Thomas, two-time PGA Championship winner 

 

“Brooks is a great player, and now he has five majors. I mean, that's a hell of a record right there. It's not easy going toe to toe with a guy like that. He is not going to give you anything.” – Viktor Hovland, 2023 PGA Championship runner-up (T-2) 

 

“Greatest player in Majors in the last 15 years! Congrats to @BKoepka on his 5th Major! Awesome job buddy!” – Billy Horschel 

 

 

 

Reciprocate???

[jimecherry]

1 hour ago, idrive said:

Brooks winning doesn't validate liv. Brooks was Brooks long before going to liv.

 

It's been said over and over they have a handful of guys that are some of the best players in the world.  You'd expect these handful to continue to be relevant.  As far as the rest of livs field they are truly a bunch of names that are well past their prime or have no history of having any relevance or elite status,

 

Nothings changed.

 

Congrats to Brooks.

 

 

ill post this response when the us open rolls around and you have guys on here saying stuff about 54 hole grand slam winners and how bad phil looks ;}

[HackerDad78]

A few things became clear to me over the weekend watching Brooks win. 

 

1. He's a competitor and shows up for the biggest events. It seems to me he's back, but LIV had absolutely nothing to do with his win.  He earned his way to the Tour originally grinding it out through the ranks.  It's there, not LIV, that he learned how to close. Nothing but respect for how he earned his way to the top.

 

2. I don't see how his win "validates" LIV. He got paid a boat load of money up front. Getting beaten by CH3 and others doesn't tell me they can compete.  They played against him for years and couldn't sniff a major win with the likes of Brooks and others in the field. He didn't care about regular PGAt events, so the fact that he's winning LIV events tells me the level of competition is even lower. At least that's how I see it. 

 

3. Brooks has even hinted as much, but if he wasn't injured and in the mental state he was in when he signed, that decision could have gone different.  Not saying he regrets it, but his decision came at a low point, not a high in his career. 

 

I'll continue enjoying watching him play in majors, along with anyone else who has earned their right to be there.  But it in no way does his win excite me, or the general public, to tune in to watch LIV from my POV. It just simply reinforces how good the competition is at majors. 
 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by HackerDad78

[Purple Toupee]

7 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Or …. They’re so easy that a “no care “brooks can simply show up and win a certain percentage of the time.  

Third time’s a charm, I guess.

[2bGood]

8 hours ago, idrive said:

Brooks winning doesn't validate liv. Brooks was Brooks long before going to liv.

 

It's been said over and over they have a handful of guys that are some of the best players in the world.  You'd expect these handful to continue to be relevant.  As far as the rest of livs field they are truly a bunch of names that are well past their prime or have no history of having any relevance or elite status,

 

Nothings changed.

 

Congrats to Brooks.

 

 

I am not a LIV fan but I do agree that there was lots of speculation that even the top guys LIV acquired would lose their game and not be relevant. In year one, that has not been the case. Maybe it will be overtime, but right now that does not look likely. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by 2bGood

[smashdn]

6 hours ago, idrive said:

As far as the rest of livs field they are truly a bunch of names that are well past their prime or have no history of having any relevance or elite status,

 

Same can be said of PGAT fields unfortunately.  There is a "bell curve of talent" in any sports league.  This isn't a knock but an observation and an example, Matt Kucher still tees it up regularly on the PGAT.

[King_Slender]

And I'd like to use this as a plea to just let this forum be about GOLF regardless of where it's played.  If there's a rule about not talking about the politics of other tours, perfectly fine - I think that issue has been beaten to death and everyone has moved into their corner - nobody cares any more.

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/liv-golf-brooks-koepka-coach-blasts-media/

 

On golfers getting paid ahead of time:

Quote

“I don’t think Rory McIlroy should go anywhere in the world without somebody paying him, including Memphis and Memorial. That’s how good he is. Jon Rahm, Scottie Scheffler, if you’re in that category, you shouldn’t be going anywhere without being paid because it’s how good you are.”

 

On "taking the money":

 

Quote

“If I’m critical of you guys in the media, you guys portrayed this as (Brooks) took the money and then Tiger came out with his comment, you know, Tiger, the ultimate guy who got all the money up front. I mean, I was around then. He flew to his first professional golf tournament on Nike’s private jet, and he wasn’t paying for it.

 

Golf is golf - you don't have to choose one tour over another:

 

Quote

The good thing I think all of this is showing is, it’s just golf. You can be a racecar driver for NASCAR or you can be a racecar driver for F1. You’re still a race car driver. Nobody in NASCAR, nobody in F1 is asking you to choose between the two.But at the end of the day, it’s motor racing. What do you do for a living? I’m a race car driver. Where do you drive? Oh, NASCAR. Well, it’s not Formula 1. Do you think anybody would say that? You would never do that. That’s really what this is. And these things can both be true.

 

Even spicier quotes in the article. 

[Hawkeye77]

We have a place to discuss all things LIV.

[Golferpaul]

8 hours ago, aus10KC said:

 

Westwood, Kaymer, Poulter ect... Can they compete week in week out on the PGAT? 

 

LIV paid for some great golfers... DJ, Cam, Brooks

 

But I'm not going to lump Lee Westwood in with that group.

Nobody said they could.

[soap1984]

20 hours ago, HomaComa said:

 

I'm not a LIV fan because I think it's a mediocre product but Brooks 100% deserves to be on the Ryder Cup team. He'll probably make it on points and it'll be downright stupid to leave him off the the team

Mediocre how? Every week they play you get the best players playing. You can't hold liv to a standard you don't hold the tour to...most tour events are completely unwatchable so I don't really get how you could say it's inferior on average. 

[golfheaven69]

No one is denying there are a handful of really good players in the Saudi League. Along with a ton of has beens chasing the dollar. The panic is setting in for the top guys and now is not the time for the PGA Tour to give them an inch. The guys who left took the cash now want equal treatment from the US Tour. Continue to put the screws to them until the Saudi League crashes and they have no where to turn. They can count their cash.