LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[tatertot]

35 minutes ago, CBarns92 said:

I don’t think it all has to be immediate. Look at Australia. They were massively popular there and a part of the reason is that in the past a lot of top pros visited there and generated interest in the game that didn’t exist before.

 

LIV now capitalizes on that. The game grew in Australia. They can repeat that same formula in other places now. Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.

'massively popular'?

[jls667]

42 minutes ago, CBarns92 said:

I don’t think it all has to be immediate. Look at Australia. They were massively popular there and a part of the reason is that in the past a lot of top pros visited there and generated interest in the game that didn’t exist before.

 

LIV now capitalizes on that. The game grew in Australia. They can repeat that same formula in other places now. Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.

 

That didn't grow the game. The game was already super popular. Aussies love their golf. What it did was brought a professional golf event with a collection of popular players, including Cam Smith and Leishman, to feed their desire for live golf. Hence why it appeared so popular but it didn't grow the game.

 

Having professional tournaments internationally doesn't grow the game, no matter what LIV thinks or says. Making this expensive, historically elitist, game we love more accessible and affordable to today's youth grows the game. Things like the First Tee grow the game which is, wait for it....part of the PGA not LIV. Putting clubs in the hands of kids who would have never had the opportunity to swing a club is what grows the game.

[fixyurdivot]

1 hour ago, CBarns92 said:

I don’t think it all has to be immediate. Look at Australia. They were massively popular there and a part of the reason is that in the past a lot of top pros visited there and generated interest in the game that didn’t exist before.

 

LIV now capitalizes on that. The game grew in Australia. They can repeat that same formula in other places now. Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.

Agree.  I'm thinking LIV's strategy is the games evolution over the long run; specifcally markets outside the USA. Golf as we've known it may not be golf of the future.  In 100 years they could be playing tour events with wiffel golf balls on artificial turf.

[bcjim]

8 hours ago, ahenderX said:

In the initial wave of players joining LIV, the primary reason stated was more personal time with family. Whether that is true is another discussion.

Spoiler: Its not true.  They have all taken easy money because easy money was offered.

[stinger_gc]

I honestly agree with a lot of what Rory is saying. If the deal with PIF falls apart, what’s stopping Yasir from buying the DP World Tour? That would give the LIV guys a pathway to OWGR points and PIF would have a huge stake in the Ryder cup.
The DP World CEO is friends with Yasir and he’d hand over the keys in a heartbeat 

[HulaGolfMom]

We’re watching the replay of Pebble and the local station is running LIV ads for the tourney here in Vegas next week. 
We golfed in our Saturday morning group and nobody cares about it.

Something came up in twitter about a 59 at LIV, so I scrolled thru the LIV threads here and there was only one post where I saw somebody posted a twitter post about it, but no other discussion. But I saw a bit more discussion about Clark’s 60.  I see more people post more about non golf content about LIV than actual golf. 

[iBanesto]

😅

Edited February 4 by iBanesto
Wrong thread.

[bscinstnct]

48 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Agree.  I'm thinking LIV's strategy is the games evolution over the long run; specifcally markets outside the USA. Golf as we've known it may not be golf of the future.  In 100 years they could be playing tour events with wiffel golf balls on artificial turf.

 

“In 100 years they could be playing tour events with wiffel golf balls on artificial turf.”

 

Sure but the question is

 

Will anyone watch that? Will it make any money?

 

LIV is welcome to burn 100 Billion on mumble rap whiffle ball golf for the next 50 years

 

But, if LIV is any indication of their “strategic” prowess, it could be to an audience of crickets. 
 

You can’t just spend 500MM on Rahmbo and tell people to watch. They know it’s weak. 
 

And they know what’s good ; )

 

Edited February 4 by bscinstnct

[idrive]

8 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

That’s what drives me absolutely crazy about LIV. Norman could’ve gotten in touch with Dawson in 2021 to verify whether or not the format would be eligible for ranking points and adjust accordingly 

 

The biggest problem from the very beginning is Normans ego. He thought all he had to do is snap his fingers and everyone would bow down and accommodate his demands. Continually making promises he couldn't end up keeping such as, the PGAT can't stop you from playing their Tournaments. We will have OWGR points because I'm Greg Norman and I told you to give them to us. Etc. Players will beat the doors down and ring the phones off of the hook to join.

 

Greed and revenge cloud a persons mind. 

 

8 hours ago, woahnelly said:

 

Norman has the charm of a used car salesman.

 

Norman would take that as a compliment.

[grm24]

3 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

I honestly agree with a lot of what Rory is saying. If the deal with PIF falls apart, what’s stopping Yasir from buying the DP World Tour? That would give the LIV guys a pathway to OWGR points and PIF would have a huge stake in the Ryder cup.
The DP World CEO is friends with Yasir and he’d hand over the keys in a heartbeat 

Sounds good in theory. You seem to forget that the PGA Tour has joint venture and financial interests with the DP Tour via European Tour Productions. The deal is for 10+ years. The PGA Tour increased their investment in that a few years back and now has 40% ownership of it. If the negotiations with the PGA Tour fall apart PIF isn't going to simply walk in and buy the ET. It's just not that simple. If it was PIF would have already done that. 

Edited February 4 by grm24

[bcjim]

Rory comments lead me to believe he may have received a check in the mail recently. 

 

Also sounds like he has a tough time adjusting on the fly to things. 

[CBarns92]

4 hours ago, jls667 said:

 

That didn't grow the game. The game was already super popular. Aussies love their golf. What it did was brought a professional golf event with a collection of popular players, including Cam Smith and Leishman, to feed their desire for live golf. Hence why it appeared so popular but it didn't grow the game.

 

Having professional tournaments internationally doesn't grow the game, no matter what LIV thinks or says. Making this expensive, historically elitist, game we love more accessible and affordable to today's youth grows the game. Things like the First Tee grow the game which is, wait for it....part of the PGA not LIV. Putting clubs in the hands of kids who would have never had the opportunity to swing a club is what grows the game.

I wasn’t saying the LIV event in Australia is what grew it. The past years of top stars going there grew it, and that was reflected at LIVs event there. They can repeat the same formula of bringing top players to new markets and the game could grow there just as it did in Australia.

[pingbling23]

32 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Rory comments lead me to believe he may have received a check in the mail recently. 

 

Also sounds like he has a tough time adjusting on the fly to things. 

he knows the agreement is going through.

[stinger_gc]

52 minutes ago, grm24 said:

Sounds good in theory. You seem to forget that the PGA Tour has joint venture and financial interests with the DP Tour via European Tour Productions. The deal is for 10+ years. The PGA Tour increased their investment in that a few years back and now has 40% ownership of it. If the negotiations with the PGA Tour fall apart PIF isn't going to simply walk in and buy the ET. It's just not that simple. If it was PIF would have already done that. 

I’m aware of this. But what long term benefit does this provide to the DP world tour? We’re 3 years into this “alliance” and the only result is 10 guys leaving the DP world tour every year. Feels like a bs deal to me

[bekgolf]

19 minutes ago, CBarns92 said:

I wasn’t saying the LIV event in Australia is what grew it. The past years of top stars going there grew it, and that was reflected at LIVs event there. They can repeat the same formula of bringing top players to new markets and the game could grow there just as it did in Australia.

 

IIRC Australia was the biggest audience for Liv.  I wonder why it isn't the target for Liv?  IMO it's their only chance to be a respected tour with an audience.

[grm24]

46 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

I’m aware of this. But what long term benefit does this provide to the DP world tour? We’re 3 years into this “alliance” and the only result is 10 guys leaving the DP world tour every year. Feels like a bs deal to me

How about ET tour stability? Especially coming after C19 almost did the ET tour in. Long term stability. Provided a cash infusion. Has provided new co-sanctioned events between the two tours that didn't exist previously. Higher purses on the ET in conjunction with DP World as the ET tour presenting sponsor. While 10 ET players can accept PGA Tour membership now most top ET tour players leave the ET anyways to take advantage of what the PGA Tour affords players. So that's not really anything new.

 

Sometimes instead of making blind statements that are not really accurate while trying to prop up exhibition golf look at the bigger picture of what's actually going on. Without the help of the PGA Tour there is a real chance the ET/DP tour would not be on the solid ground it's currently on. 

Edited February 4 by grm24

[woahnelly]

18 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

I’m aware of this. But what long term benefit does this provide to the DP world tour? We’re 3 years into this “alliance” and the only result is 10 guys leaving the DP world tour every year. Feels like a bs deal to me

 

 

 

[grm24]

37 minutes ago, CBarns92 said:

I wasn’t saying the LIV event in Australia is what grew it. The past years of top stars going there grew it, and that was reflected at LIVs event there. They can repeat the same formula of bringing top players to new markets and the game could grow there just as it did in Australia.

What new markets? Everywhere outside of North America where the exhibition tour plays those areas already have existing professional golf tours that have been in existence for a long time. Even in the cities in USA/North America where they play. What "new" areas are they expanding golf in North America? The correct answer is nowhere. The exhibition tour isn't growing the game anywhere. No matter how many times they try to have people believe otherwise.

[stinger_gc]

5 hours ago, grm24 said:

How about ET tour stability? Especially coming after C19 almost did the ET tour in. Long term stability. Provided a cash infusion. Has provided new co-sanctioned events between the two tours that didn't exist previously. Higher purses on the ET in conjunction with DP World as the ET tour presenting sponsor. While 10 ET players can accept PGA Tour membership now most top ET tour players leave the ET anyways to take advantage of what the PGA Tour affords players. So that's not really anything new.

 

Sometimes instead of making blind statements that are not really accurate while trying to prop up exhibition golf look at the bigger picture of what's actually going on. Without the help of the PGA Tour there is a real chance the ET/DP tour would not be on the solid ground it's currently on. 

2 of the 3 Co-Sanctioned events are alt field events and have the SOF of a KFT event lol. I’m no way propping up exhibition golf but wouldn’t you agree that the dp world tour is more like KFT Europe most weeks

[bcjim]

1 hour ago, stinger_gc said:

2 of the 3 Co-Sanctioned events are alt field events and have the SOF of a KFT event lol. I’m no way propping up exhibition golf but wouldn’t you agree that the dp world tour is more like KFT Europe most weeks

There are only so many elite players.  Dp has plenty of good events with good fields. Top players can't play everywhere all the time. Even if there was huge purses at more dp events,  there is still,  only so many elite golfers. 

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, bcjim said:

There are only so many elite players.  Dp has plenty of good events with good fields. Top players can't play everywhere all the time. Even if there was huge purses at more dp events,  there is still,  only so many elite golfers. 

That’s true. I guess it’s sad to see the DP World Tour get diminished in this arms race. I actually love a lot of the places they play at, but there’s no way to compete when the PGAT and LIV are paying guys as much as they are

[CBarns92]

13 hours ago, grm24 said:

What new markets? Everywhere outside of North America where the exhibition tour plays those areas already have existing professional golf tours that have been in existence for a long time. Even in the cities in USA/North America where they play. What "new" areas are they expanding golf in North America? The correct answer is nowhere. The exhibition tour isn't growing the game anywhere. No matter how many times they try to have people believe otherwise.

It’s not about “having an existing professional golf tour” and you know this. It’s about the top players in the world playing there. Singapore, Hong Kong, talk of events in India and South America. When was the last time a field of top players visited these markets? Professional golf existed in Australia before Tiger and other top players went there, but them visiting is a big reason it grew in popularity. 

[ahenderX]

53 minutes ago, CBarns92 said:

It’s not about “having an existing professional golf tour” and you know this. It’s about the top players in the world playing there. Singapore, Hong Kong, talk of events in India and South America. When was the last time a field of top players visited these markets? Professional golf existed in Australia before Tiger and other top players went there, but them visiting is a big reason it grew in popularity. 

Singapore makes no sense if the goal is to grow the game. Population about the size of South Carolina. LIV Golf is not broadcast in Singapore, Hong Kong, or mainland China. So what’s the point of playing in Hong Kong or Singapore? Is it the Asian Tour connection LIV has?

[Cactus Jack]

17 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

I’m aware of this. But what long term benefit does this provide to the DP world tour? We’re 3 years into this “alliance” and the only result is 10 guys leaving the DP world tour every year. Feels like a bs deal to me

 

The benefit to the DPWT is existence. Without the PGAT coming along they dead. The only thing that kept the tour affloat was the Ryder Cup, otherwise they were effectively bankrupts and failing. The PGAT certainly used this in their negotiations as they now get the majority of the Ryder Cup revenue and the DPWT's best players.  

[Cactus Jack]

9 hours ago, bcjim said:

There are only so many elite players.  Dp has plenty of good events with good fields. Top players can't play everywhere all the time. Even if there was huge purses at more dp events,  there is still,  only so many elite golfers. 

 

Next man up, right? Elite player's don't matter when there's a constant pipeline of young talent. This is why players leaving for LIV doesn't matter.

[stinger_gc]

One start one top 5 for stinger GC! I’m counting this as a win

[jimecherry]

18 hours ago, stinger_gc said:

I’m aware of this. But what long term benefit does this provide to the DP world tour? We’re 3 years into this “alliance” and the only result is 10 guys leaving the DP world tour every year. Feels like a bs deal to me

the 150 - 200 category on the pga tour were supposed to help fill in the gap of losing 10 guys for a whole season but this early in and i'm not sure any pga tour players in that category have traveled to the middle east to play.

[jjtour]

Wondering why they do shotgun start and small field yet still run out of daylight for this playoff? You would think that would be an advantage of shotgun start, barring extreme circumstances never having to end on a Monday. 
 

Also, what’s the deal with canter and swafford not being on a team? They bring in atleast 5 new guys to league this year and those guys still aren’t attached to a team? Seems kinda like an eff you to them not being eligible for the team bonus cash.

Some things I think LiV does well and the top half of the field is quality, but some stuff is just beyond bush league for how much cash they have behind them. 

[Louis_Posture]

Today I watched some LIV Tour golf for the first time. The players wearing short pants, music playing on the course, and low-budget feel of the broadcast team was not compelling.

[jimecherry]

3 minutes ago, jjtour said:

Wondering why they do shotgun start and small field yet still run out of daylight for this playoff? You would think that would be an advantage of shotgun start, barring extreme circumstances never having to end on a Monday. 
 

Also, what’s the deal with canter and swafford not being on a team? They bring in atleast 5 new guys to league this year and those guys still aren’t attached to a team? Seems kinda like an eff you to them not being eligible for the team bonus cash.

Some things I think LiV does well and the top half of the field is quality, but some stuff is just beyond bush league for how much cash they have behind them. 

chasing the ideal of just be different shouldnt equal do everything by the seat of ones pants.