LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[dcmidnight]

22 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Maybe.

 

What is the PIF doubled all their prizemoney and signing/resigning $?

 

How many more high-ranked pros would they get?

 

Does it matter who they get?

 

They would get zero more. Guys who arent leaving for $50m arent leaving for $100m, you've got who you've got.

 

And no, it absolutely doesnt matter.

 

FWIW PIF wasnt out for $$ ROI, they are out for PR ROI, it was never about "We're spending $5B we hope to get back $6B" - thats never what this is about. So just because they *have* unlimited money, if they dont see some PR return, they arent going to dump $ into something indefinitely.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, Rapidcat said:

All the opinions on here seem so routed in small money for the PGAT.

 

The PIF last month was named the world’s most valuable sovereign wealth fund with total estimated assets of US$925 billion and an A+ brand strength rating (it was c.$700B when LIV commenced). Just Google it to get more details.

Yasir is personally worth a reported $120B. He's reportedly (ask Rory) a golf nut.

SSG invested a reported $3B in the PGAT (um, big deal).

PGAT's viewing ratings are down this season.

I'm sure that the entire $925B is not entirely allocated for golf, but based on these numbers the plan should be to continue to buy players at a $500M per contract until the PGAT collapse. No need to create a partnership with the PGAT that has a valuation of a measly $12B.

[bscinstnct]

49 minutes ago, Cactus Jack said:

 

Below is a basic summary. Jays missteps have been documented & confirmed by many sources including players like Jack & Rory, the PGAT Board, and confirmed by multiple sources over the past two years. One meeting three years ago and LIV golf never sees the light of day. 
 

https://www.firepitcollective.com/p/liv-and-let-die

 

The mistake was that Al-Sorour led the effort initially as opposed to ARum 

 

And He approached Jack?! Jack is great but wayyyyy removed at this point and probably not taken seriously 

 

ARum should have met with Tiger. That would have had potential cause TW>Jay

 

The another mistake by AlSorour  He reportedly sends this letter with no letterhead. No PIF nothing 

 

And it says,

 

“I am writing in my capacity as lead advisor of a new golf enterprise. I want to introduce you to our proposition and outline its value as a prospective partner of the PGA Tour. We are proposing an innovative league featuring twelve “teams” of top talent competing head-to-head over 14 weeks, creating a new dimension for sports and stakeholders. “

 

The only way to read this letter is…

 

we are starting a 14 week tour and want to get the “top talent”. The pga tours top guys, we are staring a league and want to take them. 

 

Honest but that’s no way to start a conversation. 
 

Look at how ARum is handling these conversations now. Slow, low key, meeting around a table to listen and talk. 
 

My take is it was miss handled equally by both sides
 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:36 PM by bscinstnct

[Rapidcat]

21 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

 

They would get zero more. Guys who arent leaving for $50m arent leaving for $100m, you've got who you've got.

 

And no, it absolutely doesnt matter.

 

FWIW PIF wasnt out for $$ ROI, they are out for PR ROI, it was never about "We're spending $5B we hope to get back $6B" - thats never what this is about. So just because they *have* unlimited money, if they dont see some PR return, they arent going to dump $ into something indefinitely.

 

Agree with the bolded, but if so, why does everyone on here think the opposite in regards to $$ROI?

 

The one thing you disregard is time - they have decades to achieve their PR ROI, we are just at the very start.

 

[Rapidcat]

2 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

The mistake was that Al-Sorour led the effort initially as opposed to ARum 

 

And He approached Jack?! Jack is great but wayyyyy removed at this point and probably not taken seriously 

 

ARum should have met with Tiger. That would have had potential cause TW>Jay

 

The another mistake by AlSorour  He reportedly sends this letter with no letterhead. No PIF nothing 

 

And it says,

 

“I am writing in my capacity as lead advisor of a new golf enterprise. I want to introduce you to our proposition and outline its value as a prospective partner of the PGA Tour. We are proposing an innovative league featuring twelve “teams” of top talent competing head-to-head over 14 weeks, creating a new dimension for sports and stakeholders. “

 

The only way to read this letter is…

 

we are starting a 14 week tour and want to get the “top talent”

 

Honest but that’s no way to start a conversation. 
 

Look at how ARum is handling these conversations now. Slow, low key, meeting around a table to listen and talk. 
 

My take is it was miss handled equally by both sides
 

 

 

Seriously, don't be so naive.

 

If you're the PGAT, you find out what the reality is at the start. A few phone calls, a meeting.

 

I mean, how many PGAT execs are there to investigate this from the start?

 

Oh, they're all hiding out in Houston in their Taj Mahal.

 

It's why the PGAT members (mostly) despise/dislike/disrespect the competency of PGAT exec management.

 

I give you your take on current talks, though.

 

Here's an idea - remove Jay and make Tiger commissioner, he's done as a player unfortunately.

[NV825]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Fedex contract is til 2027

 

Could see Aramco replace it, but in a different format/time of year. 
 

Maybe that’s where the line in the proverbial sand is drawn by SSG

 

Aramco branded events with all the top players but LIV gets shuttered, at least in any form that competes with tour interests. And PIF gets its big equity stake in of a tour enterprises 

 

Thats the simplest most beneficial for all
 

 

 

This seems like the most logical approach, whether it's replacing FedEx or joining them as a co-presenting sponsor for a revamped playoff series.

[bscinstnct]

16 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Seriously, don't be so naive.

 

If you're the PGAT, you find out what the reality is at the start. A few phone calls, a meeting.

 

I mean, how many PGAT execs are there to investigate this from the start?

 

Oh, they're all hiding out in Houston in their Taj Mahal.

 

It's why the PGAT members (mostly) despise/dislike/disrespect the competency of PGAT exec management.

 

I give you your take on current talks, though.

 

Here's an idea - remove Jay and make Tiger commissioner, he's done as a player unfortunately.

 

Disagree, there is absolutely a protocol and a proper way to go about initiating these conversations. 
 

The wrong way is to

 

Ply an 85 year old Jack into going to talk to Jay. And then writing a letter with zero credentials basically threatening someone multi decade business 

 

Read the article. Al-Sorour wouldn’t even even sign his name or put it on official letterhead because he didn’t want direct rejection.

 

The right way is to have someone with ARum board skills ask for a meeting with a key stakeholder. 
 

That’s what JDun did when he approached ARum

 

See the difference?

Edited Wednesday at 04:03 PM by bscinstnct

[Rapidcat]

4 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Disagree, there is absolutely a protocol and a proper way to go about initiating these conversations. 
 

The wrong way is to

 

Ply an 85 year old Jack into going to talk to Jay. And then writing a letter with zero credentials basically threatening someone multi decade business 

 

Read the article. Al-Sorour wouldn’t even even sign his name or put it on official letterhead because he didn’t want direct rejection.

 

The right way is to have someone with ARum board skills ask for a meeting with a key stakeholder. 
 

That’s what JDun did when he approached ARum

 

See the difference?

 

It's just semantics, ham fisted or not you deal with reality and that means if there's a whiff of SA $, you forget protocols and verify.

 

As you say though, JDun did it right...where was JMon?

[bscinstnct]

11 minutes ago, NV825 said:

 

This seems like the most logical approach, whether it's replacing FedEx or joining them as a co-presenting sponsor for a revamped playoff series.

 

I think SSG is looking at each event as a 

 

billboard.

 

whoever pays the most for it gets the event.

 

So they want to make a deal so they can have all the top players in charge as much as possible for each “billboard”

 

Maybe. Given how much FedEx pay is they will keep it. But then also guarantee 4 great times/courses for the Aramco events. 

[jdl]

2 hours ago, subrew said:

 

Do "they" even need a plan in place for those guys mentioned?  By winning the PGA Championships and US Open, guys like Brooks and Bryson automatically earned their PGAT card.  A five year PGAT exemption in fact.  He can join within 60 days of winning or anytime in the next five years.  It is right in the PGAT rules.  How Bryson's current "suspension" plays into it is another matter.  But Brooks resigned his PGAT membership, then won last year, so technically he could join the PGAT anytime before the five years runs out.

 

This would apply if pretty much anyone won the US Open.  A member of the Asian Tour, Sunshine Tour, Scandi Tour, or a total AM with zero tour membership.

The bylaws also state that a player can re-apply for membership 1 year after their suspension is lifted. That exemption doesn't do you much good if you're not a member. So yeah, there would need to be plan to modify/overrule that bylaw

[jimecherry]

3 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Have they said that? I realize the guys are likely still suspended , but i cant imagine the PGA wouldn't take back any of the top 10-15 guys if they really wanted. 

 

Emotions aside it's just good business. Its a public win for the tour and hurts a competitor 

 

If Brooks, Bryson and Rahm all came back that's like the end of "Inglorious Basterds". You've blown up the basket, operation kino style. They of course would do that. 

 

They get 650 fans WITH those guys. Take them away a tumbleweed is gonna finish 36th in the next event

jay prior to merger talks has been quoted as telling players who were leaving that they were banned for life. and the official rules are if you play 1 liv event thats 18 months even if you are not and have never been a pga tour member.

[cdnglf]

40 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Agree with the bolded, but if so, why does everyone on here think the opposite in regards to $$ROI?

 

The one thing you disregard is time - they have decades to achieve their PR ROI, we are just at the very start.

 

Decades?
This endeavor will last as long as:

a) Al Rumayyan’s enthusiasm for golf; and

b) MBS’s enthusiasm for Al Rumayyan

 

 

[bcjim]

2 hours ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Maybe.

 

What is the PIF doubled all their prizemoney and signing/resigning $?

 

How many more high-ranked pros would they get?

 

Does it matter who they get?

They're going to have to double it already. Contracts are expiring. They'll need to quadruple it.  That's not happening.  But even if it did,  the product is of no interest to anyone.

[bcjim]

1 hour ago, Rapidcat said:

 

 

Here's an idea - remove Jay and make Tiger commissioner, he's done as a player unfortunately.

Sure, what  with his history of great decision making and all.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

7 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Sure, what  with his history of great decision making and all.

This is a classic example of decision making... 🤣

 

[stinger_gc]

22 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

LIV can’t “take over” the tour from an equity standpoint (and thereby a unilateral control standpoint) because I believe between SSG and the players, like 70% of the equity in pga tour enterprises is owned/not for sale

 

There may come a point, should the tours revenue start to shrink, that purses need to be lowered, that could cause distress on the business and PIF could leverage into a majority of the equity and then they would control golf

 

This would seem to be the plan via signing top players. 
 

I think SSG is positioned to “hold out” for years but who knows if and when there will be traction in LIVs interest to viewers that actually threatens the tours revenue in a meaningful way 

 

It does seem like, given the fact that LIV took a big chunk of the most marketable and successful players and still isn’t growing viewership much, there just arent “big names” that are big enough that leaving the pga tour results is a real threat, at least not for a few years to come 

 

LIV may have its own issues with re-signing the guys whose contracts are coming up. 

 

Now that they game Rahm $500MM or whatever, will they need to do the same for Bryson Brooks and other key players?

 

I can’t imagine they want to keep spending 100-500MM every time they need to sign a big player. 

Brooks and Bryson definitely deserve some sort of extension that’s bigger than what they currently have. Pretty sure both of those contracts are up end of 2025. The PGAT could 100% give those guys equity in order for them to comeback 

[MtlJeff]

46 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

jay prior to merger talks has been quoted as telling players who were leaving that they were banned for life. and the official rules are if you play 1 liv event thats 18 months even if you are not and have never been a pga tour member.

 

I recall him saying that during the early days when he was acting with the dignity of a scorned girlfriend. But I'd bet now with their new partners they wouldn't say no to Brooks or Bryson for example.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

Maybe. Given how much FedEx pay is they will keep it. But then also guarantee 4 great times/courses for the Aramco events. 

 

FedEx is the season-long sponsor and the most important one the PGAT has,

 

FedEx is global and does business in over 200 countries. FedEx has over 530,000 employees and an annual revenue of $90B.

 

~ Anyone suggesting that the PGAT get rid of or replace them is either delusional or high on a controlled substance.  IMO

[bscinstnct]

6 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

 

FedEx is the season-long sponsor and the most important one the PGAT has,

 

FedEx is global and does business in over 200 countries. FedEx has over 530,000 employees and an annual revenue of $90B.

 

~ Anyone suggesting that the PGAT get rid of or replace them is either delusional or high on a controlled substance.  IMO

 

T99 be like 

 

 

 

 

 

🤣 🍻

 

Easy now, who knows, maybe Fedex will bail in 2027 if they don’t like the scene 

Edited Wednesday at 06:13 PM by bscinstnct

[jimecherry]

2 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

 

FedEx is the season-long sponsor and the most important one the PGAT has,

 

FedEx is global and does business in over 200 countries. FedEx has over 530,000 employees and an annual revenue of $90B.

 

~ Anyone suggesting that the PGAT get rid of or replace them is either delusional or high on a controlled substance.  IMO

pga tour should replace fedex with nvidia ;} to bad jensen huang doesnt play golf

[MaineMariner]

In actual news, Caffeine.TV announced today that they are shutting down. You'll recall that they were signed on to carry LIV's Friday rounds earlier this year (along with LIV's website and YouTube). You may also recall that LIV claimed that 4.5 million people watched LIV's Jeddah event on Caffeine, which was... uh, dubious.

 

https://www.caffeine.tv/

 

https://x.com/NUCLRGOLF/status/1765490231606714614?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1765490231606714614|twgr^9db8b48be053125eac99c8f853fb7fc1c7774d14|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportskeeda.com%2Fgolf%2Fnews-literally-0-chance-accurate-fans-dismiss-liv-official-s-claim-caffeine-tv-delivered-4-5m-views-liv-golf-jeddah

[Titleist99]

23 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I recall him saying that during the early days when he was acting with the dignity of a scorned girlfriend. But I'd bet now with their new partners they wouldn't say no to Brooks or Bryson for example.

Brooks, Bryson, and Rahm aren't helping their present tour. You overvalue their presence. IMO

[Titleist99]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

T99 be like 

 

 

 

 

 

🤣 🍻

 

Easy now, who knows, maybe Fedex will bail in 2027 if they don’t like the scene 

Nah, there's a reason why FedEx is partnered with the PGAT.

[bcjim]

13 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

In actual news, Caffeine.TV announced today that they are shutting down.

 

 

A real wake up call for Rummy.

[Titleist99]

14 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

T99 be like 

 

 

 

 

 

🤣 🍻

 

Easy now, who knows, maybe Fedex will bail in 2027 if they don’t like the scene 

Just to be clear, I do believe that FedEx has been a sponsor of the PGAT since the 80"s.

 

~ As an aside. This photo is of me when I made Employee of the Month.   🤣🤣

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, MaineMariner said:

In actual news, Caffeine.TV announced today that they are shutting down. You'll recall that they were signed on to carry LIV's Friday rounds earlier this year (along with LIV's website and YouTube). You may also recall that LIV claimed that 4.5 million people watched LIV's Jeddah event on Caffeine, which was... uh, dubious.

 

https://www.caffeine.tv/

 

https://x.com/NUCLRGOLF/status/1765490231606714614?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1765490231606714614|twgr^9db8b48be053125eac99c8f853fb7fc1c7774d14|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportskeeda.com%2Fgolf%2Fnews-literally-0-chance-accurate-fans-dismiss-liv-official-s-claim-caffeine-tv-delivered-4-5m-views-liv-golf-jeddah

Wow, after a $100M investment from FOX. But as we all know $100M these days are peanuts.

[bekgolf]

Just now, Opie Taylor said:

Meanwhile, while this letter was sent the PIF Aramco Series was in full swing and unless Jay lived under a rock he knew all about the PIF deal with the LET/LPGA.

 

So instead of calling ARum for clarification Jay calls the 9/11 justice group and has them meet him at

Ponte Vedra headquarters and sets them up with the PGAT's PR firm. 

 

So Jay attempted to use the worst tragedy on American soil and the surviving victims to gain leverage and power over a suspected rival.

 

Of course, Jay has no more use for the 9/11 justice group as he was blasted by them shortly after the original talks. Jay then quickly took a leave of absence. Coward.

 

But sure the letter wasn't articulated properly.

 

There is a pattern of Liv supporters putting down Jay.  Why?  Is it because he won't play ball?  Is it an attempt to get others mad at Jay?  I don't get it.

[cdnglf]

4 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

The mistake was that Al-Sorour led the effort initially as opposed to ARum 

 

And He approached Jack?! Jack is great but wayyyyy removed at this point and probably not taken seriously 

 

ARum should have met with Tiger. That would have had potential cause TW>Jay

 

The another mistake by AlSorour  He reportedly sends this letter with no letterhead. No PIF nothing 

 

And it says,

 

“I am writing in my capacity as lead advisor of a new golf enterprise. I want to introduce you to our proposition and outline its value as a prospective partner of the PGA Tour. We are proposing an innovative league featuring twelve “teams” of top talent competing head-to-head over 14 weeks, creating a new dimension for sports and stakeholders. “

 

The only way to read this letter is…

 

we are starting a 14 week tour and want to get the “top talent”. The pga tours top guys, we are staring a league and want to take them. 

 

Honest but that’s no way to start a conversation. 
 

Look at how ARum is handling these conversations now. Slow, low key, meeting around a table to listen and talk. 
 

My take is it was miss handled equally by both sides
 

 

If only Al-Souror had mentioned his Nigerian Princehood.

 

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:07 PM by cdnglf

[bscinstnct]

5 minutes ago, cdnglf said:

Of only Al-Souror had mentioned his Nigerian Princehood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right?

 

Its like I write Jay.. 

 

mR JAy,

 

U maynot no mE but I kMow U and I have $5,000,900,0000,00000 and MaKikg a ⛳️ leegue 

Edited Wednesday at 08:12 PM by bscinstnct

[MtlJeff]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Brooks, Bryson, and Rahm aren't helping their present tour. You overvalue their presence. IMO

 

I don't think LIVs lack of fan base is only related to golf