ZX5 not for me - where to next?

[bigdawg]

4 minutes ago, RobS14526 said:

If you were playing z101's with KBS tour stiff and they feel significantly lighter than your new setup, you should check the swingweights of both sets. If the KBS were installed without adding weight to the head they will be a pretty light swingweight at standard length. 

 

If what you're dealing with is adjusting to a significantly heavier swingweight than what you had grown accustomed to, it's going to take a while no matter what iron head you're using.

 

I actually built those z-101s myself (I am a trained and qualified fitter, though i only did it for a few years back in my late thirties as a hobby). I swingweighted them consistently to D2. But the issue with the weight of the new clubs is more the total weight. The ZX5's may still be D2 (Im not 100% sure that they are) but the total weight appears much heavier to me now and that's another thing that I observed (not saying its a bad thing - and something I would get over that if the results were better). 

Edited September 26, 2022 by bigdawg
Typo

[bigdawg]

15 minutes ago, Dufferonius said:

Following with interest.  I'm vaguely considering a club upgrade. The Srixon ZX5 Mk. II has been on my short list.  But I am a picker.  So it sounds like they'd be a bad fit for me.

 

 

I would be looking elsewhere from what I have learned thus far. Or go ZX5 in long and ZX7 in short but I only hit ZX7 off of mats so im not altogether sure that's a guaranteed outcome either. One of the earlier posters above (or else a link that was posted perhaps) was suggesting that the modern Srixons are all like that (suit guys with a specific angle of attack and divot takers).

[Jeff58]

14 minutes ago, bigdawg said:

What about P770 v's P790.  I prefer the look of the former but is there too much between them to go the P770 route? Is the P790 clearly the better for mid players?

Just IMO -

 

ZX5’s are ZX7’s with training wheels. If you spend enough time with them , by their feedback they will help (demand) that you conform to their configuration. The problem tends to be that many users don’t have the training time or interest to accomplish that, and if that’s the case, they will not change to accommodate you.

 

The 2021 P790 is again, close to literally the opposite. TM has done wonders to make what appears to be a blade be as usable to as wide an audience as anything since Eye2’s. That said, I still have mine and don’t often play them. The main reason is that I feel that they let me get away with too much. However, the P790 long irons remain the best I’ve ever experienced, and are again IMO pretty much the best on the planet.

 

P770’s are smaller P790’s. My experience is limited, but the long irons were nowhere near as “user friendly”.

 

If there is a happy medium between P790’s and ZX5’s, it may indeed be the Rogue ST Pro as bcflyguy suggests. Their only significantly negative aspect may be that there is a greater speed falloff away from the face center than many of the larger models.

[bigdawg]

13 minutes ago, Jeff58 said:

Just IMO -

 

ZX5’s are ZX7’s with training wheels. If you spend enough time with them , by their feedback they will help (demand) that you conform to their configuration. The problem tends to be that many users don’t have the training time or interest to accomplish that, and if that’s the case, they will not change to accommodate you.

 

The 2021 P790 is again, close to literally the opposite. TM has done wonders to make what appears to be a blade be as usable to as wide an audience as anything since Eye2’s. That said, I still have mine and don’t often play them. The main reason is that I feel that they let me get away with too much. However, the P790 long irons remain the best I’ve ever experienced, and are again IMO pretty much the best on the planet.

 

P770’s are smaller P790’s. My experience is limited, but the long irons were nowhere near as “user friendly”.

 

If there is a happy medium between P790’s and ZX5’s, it may indeed be the Rogue ST Pro as bcflyguy suggests. Their only significantly negative aspect may be that there is a greater speed falloff away from the face center than many of the larger models.

 

Thanks again for responding. Im learning from your experiences. I was never 'sold' on the P790's from looks. Cant explain exactly why. Some irons appeal to you, others just don't. But when i was researching the ZX's the P790 was probably the biggest, lets say, alternative that was being put forward. So i have to sit up and take notice of that now.

 

And yes, the Rogue ST Pro does look like it ticks a lot of those boxes for me and thanks for that comment re: off-centre hits. Its something i can now watch out for. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by bigdawg
Typo

[jerryo]

I play a ZX combo set with ZX5 as a 6 and 7 iron. For me it was the Modus 105 shaft. I find it just a bizarre profile that just did not translate onto the golf course. The 120 was a much better fit as was the C Taper Lite 110 which is what I settled on. The ZX5s came alive with the shaft change. I just did another fitting and will be installing Steelfiber i95 r flex over the winter.

[bigdawg]

1 hour ago, jerryo said:

I play a ZX combo set with ZX5 as a 6 and 7 iron. For me it was the Modus 105 shaft. I find it just a bizarre profile that just did not translate onto the golf course. The 120 was a much better fit as was the C Taper Lite 110 which is what I settled on. The ZX5s came alive with the shaft change. I just did another fitting and will be installing Steelfiber i95 r flex over the winter.

I honestly haven't been giving too much thought to the shaft upto this point. I seemed to get good numbers from the 105 during the fitting process but, by the same token, I am at a loss as to why the entire club performed as poorly as it did on the course (for me). So I'll be paying more attention to the shaft with whatever move I make next. 

[puttingmatt]

I would work with them a little more.

 

 it's your choice, good luck. I find the ZX5'S a blast to play.

 

Might want to look at the Callaway,

Or better yet, callaway pre owned,

Great prices, when they run specials.

Edited September 27, 2022 by puttingmatt

[Maluka]

I’ve got zx5 4-6 and zx7 7+. I’m an average ball striking 11 hcap. I find the zx7 easier to hit than the zx5. So forgiving. I much prefer hitting my 7 iron than my 6. They might look similar but for me they may as well be two different brands.

Something about the zx5 just seems to be hit or miss for me.

You sound like a better iron player than me so I’d say give the zx7 a go.

also modus 105 is not for some people. Like me. I didn’t like it. Modus 120 though is great. Maybe try different shaft

[bigdawg]

2 hours ago, Maluka said:

I’ve got zx5 4-6 and zx7 7+. I’m an average ball striking 11 hcap. I find the zx7 easier to hit than the zx5. So forgiving. I much prefer hitting my 7 iron than my 6. They might look similar but for me they may as well be two different brands.

Something about the zx5 just seems to be hit or miss for me.

You sound like a better iron player than me so I’d say give the zx7 a go.

also modus 105 is not for some people. Like me. I didn’t like it. Modus 120 though is great. Maybe try different shaft

 

Interesting. Im open to trying the ZX7 after a few posts here suggested it. I think the main issue with the ZX5 was the thick sole (which the ZX7 doesnt have). With the ZX5, I either bounced into the shot and thinned it, or dug in, and fatted it. It was telling, to me, that my best shots with the ZX's have been out of the first cut or rough. Yes, I have reservations about the 105 Modus too. Seen more than a few posts that all say the 120 weighted shafts are much more stable and repetitive both in Modus and KBS.  Thanks. 

[rsballer10]

On 9/26/2022 at 8:25 AM, ChipDriver said:

I could have written that exact description 10 years ago.  So I hope this helps.  It's not your clubs - it's your swing.

 

For me the results I got were not that I was a picker (which I had thought) - it was b/c I was a flipper.   The "several fat shots" seems to be the key.   My cure was learning how to hit full swings solidly out of a flat lie from sand or from a practice bunker. 

 

I swing 10 mph slower than you with 7 iron; and swing at about 83 driver.  My 6 iron used to go about 150-155 carry/ play to about 160..  W/practice out of sand and fixing swing path (OTT/too much right hand "hit"/staying behind the ball blah blah blah) I now can compress the ball with an easy swing - and the improved contact sends the ball 175 carry to 190 total distance...with a ZX5/Recoil 95.   I can do similar with an XRPro with OEM steel shaft (about 5 yards shorter). For me - compression and solid strike are better than speed....although I'd love some more speed!  🙂

 

If you want better performance - maybe try a lesson to fix your swing  and all your clubs will be re-energized!

 

100% this is the way. At mere mortal swing speeds, too much spin is user error 10/10 times. OP has been a good sport but re-focusing attention on mechanics is the way to go here. Time starved or not - focus what little free time OP has on what will yield the biggest results. Use the 80/20 rule. It will be easier to pick up 20 yards by delivering the club with less loft, this will move the divot ahead of the ball instead of behind it. The spin issues OP is having are most likely directly correlated with impact issues. Hands behind the ball = chunks, skipping into the ball, and too much spin.

 

Thinner soled irons can mask this problem because it is possible to slip the bounce under the ball in firm conditions and not hit a fat shot. But could also lead to disaster in wet conditions.

[bigdawg]

34 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

100% this is the way. At mere mortal swing speeds, too much spin is user error 10/10 times. OP has been a good sport but re-focusing attention on mechanics is the way to go here. Time starved or not - focus what little free time OP has on what will yield the biggest results. Use the 80/20 rule. It will be easier to pick up 20 yards by delivering the club with less loft, this will move the divot ahead of the ball instead of behind it. The spin issues OP is having are most likely directly correlated with impact issues. Hands behind the ball = chunks, skipping into the ball, and too much spin.

 

Thinner soled irons can mask this problem because it is possible to slip the bounce under the ball in firm conditions and not hit a fat shot. But could also lead to disaster in wet conditions.

 

I appreciate this input and there may be some validity to your points. But, with my old irons, I would take a slight divot - always past the ball - almost 100% of the time. Its one of the things i would always check (with a tee in the ground) during my range sessions. So that has never really been an issue for me. My angle of attack (as measured on Trackman and Flightscope) is always negative and my dynamic loft is less than the stated club loft - so my hands are leading the clubhead into impact.

 

So if I have just started chunking into balls since i got the ZX5's and didn't used to do this with my old set of irons (which, in theory, would be a lot less forgiving than the newer ZX5 models) - then logically, I'm going to start looking at the suitability of those irons for my swingtype (and/or shafts, though primarily the heads i would think). 

 

So whilst I would accept my mechanics aren't perfect (mainly path issues, a bit OTT etc same as lots of guys on this board), when i see a marked disimprovement in my ball striking and I'm struggling to find the middle of the face with the ZX5's, then I have to think that that type of iron just doesn't suit me and most likely the V-sole is the reason behind that. 

 

That's just my thinking on it but I really like getting the alternative views being shared on this post.  

Edited September 27, 2022 by bigdawg
Typo

[drumdude96]

On 9/26/2022 at 7:25 AM, ChipDriver said:

I could have written that exact description 10 years ago.  So I hope this helps.  It's not your clubs - it's your swing.

 

For me the results I got were not that I was a picker (which I had thought) - it was b/c I was a flipper.   The "several fat shots" seems to be the key.   My cure was learning how to hit full swings solidly out of a flat lie from sand or from a practice bunker. 

 

I swing 10 mph slower than you with 7 iron; and swing at about 83 driver.  My 6 iron used to go about 150-155 carry/ play to about 160..  W/practice out of sand and fixing swing path (OTT/too much right hand "hit"/staying behind the ball blah blah blah) I now can compress the ball with an easy swing - and the improved contact sends the ball 175 carry to 190 total distance...with a ZX5/Recoil 95.   I can do similar with an XRPro with OEM steel shaft (about 5 yards shorter). For me - compression and solid strike are better than speed....although I'd love some more speed!  🙂

 

If you want better performance - maybe try a lesson to fix your swing  and all your clubs will be re-energized!

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you. More than likely, it IS the clubs. I have bought two sets of irons in the past couple years that had 105 gram steel shafts. One set had Modus 105, the other Dynamic Gold 105. With both sets, I hit nothing but fat shots with the stock shafts. Once I reshafted to my preferred shafts, all was well again. In my case, and possibly the OP's, it was an issue of shaft weight. I am a strong guy with pretty high swing speed in the irons, and lightweight steel shafts just DO NOT work for me. I need iron shafts in the 120-130 gram range to get the best results. Poorly fit clubs has NOTHING to do with one's swing. You don't change your swing to fit the clubs; you change the clubs to fit your swing. It should NEVER be the other way around.

[ephmen]

I think the sole concerns have gotten into your head. I agree with the others who recommended a lesson and go from there. Good luck!

[Dufferonius]

56 minutes ago, ephmen said:

I think the sole concerns have gotten into your head. I agree with the others who recommended a lesson and go from there. Good luck!

Normally, I would tend to agree with you, because, as amateur golfers, we too-often blame the arrow, rather than the archer when, in fact, more often than not, it's the archer.

 

But, in this case, we've other members noting they've seen other reports that Srixons V-sole doesn't work well for pickers or those who tend to take shallow divots.

 

Sometimes it's both the archer and the arrow.  Case in point: I was gifted a bag of 20-year-old clubs.  Among those was a 60° wedge.  (Which turned out to really be 58°.)  It was too short for me (I take a +1 in. in most everything), but darned if I couldn't hit that out of the bunkers.  Not well or consistently, but I could do it.  My new 54° CBX worked so well for me I thought a 58° CBX would work well for me out of the sand.  Nope.  I couldn't get off the beach with that thing to save my soul.  Absolute disaster.  A month or so back I demo'd a Smart Sole.  Problem solved.  I still have a lot of work to do, but I can get out of a bunker with it--sometimes.

 

[ephmen]

8 minutes ago, Dufferonius said:

Normally, I would tend to agree with you, because, as amateur golfers, we too-often blame the arrow, rather than the archer when, in fact, more often than not, it's the archer.

 

But, in this case, we've other members noting they've seen other reports that Srixons V-sole doesn't work well for pickers or those who tend to take shallow divots.

 

Sometimes it's both the archer and the arrow.  Case in point: I was gifted a bag of 20-year-old clubs.  Among those was a 60° wedge.  (Which turned out to really be 58°.)  It was too short for me (I take a +1 in. in most everything), but darned if I couldn't hit that out of the bunkers.  Not well or consistently, but I could do it.  My new 54° CBX worked so well for me I thought a 58° CBX would work well for me out of the sand.  Nope.  I couldn't get off the beach with that thing to save my soul.  Absolute disaster.  A month or so back I demo'd a Smart Sole.  Problem solved.  I still have a lot of work to do, but I can get out of a bunker with it--sometimes.

 

Not saying it isn't possible that is the case. More likely is that, like most of us gear nerds, he read about the soles and got a bug in his brain which is messing with his head. Either way, doesn't really matter, he will play better with new clubs. 

[bigdawg]

To give some further context to my Original Post. This is the 4 iron from the set I was moving from (Z101's) mainly because i just wasn't getting the distance out of the irons that I think my swing speed should get (mainly due to older tech - no mystery here). Off a grass level tee peg I would hit this 4 iron about 180-190 yards total with a slight fade. One or two posters have suggested that if i was getting fats or thins on the ZX5's then i need to look at swing mechanics. Which is fair enough except my trackman and flightscope data both show i have a negative angle of attack (around -4) and my dynamic loft (24-26 with a 32 deg 7 iron) is always several degrees less than the club stated loft. A lot of guys would look at this butter knife and go "not for me thanks" so if i'm gaming a set like this, I think my mechanics would have to be reasonably solid. I have path issues (out to in) and face issues (slightly open at impact at times) but fats and thins were never in my lexicon prior to getting the ZX5's. 

 

I just wouldn't have gotten away with really bad swing mechanics gaming my current irons for the for these past 10 years or so.

 

FWIW: Im not saying ZX5's are bad irons. Far from it. I just posted to find out if others had similar experiences to me and try to figure out my next steps based on what others did.

 

Great input from all posters.

[bigdawg]

18 minutes ago, ephmen said:

Not saying it isn't possible that is the case. More likely is that, like most of us gear nerds, he read about the soles and got a bug in his brain which is messing with his head. Either way, doesn't really matter, he will play better with new clubs. 

 

I only read about the sole issues after I had extensively tested the ZX5's on course for 4-5 rounds. The issue didn't show up in fitting/testing off the mats at all. So I had no knowledge of it until i came on here and did some researching after getting mixed results out on the course myself. Of course, i did plenty of research on the irons prior to purchasing. And hit them on 3 separate indoor sessions before buying them. 

[ephmen]

8 minutes ago, bigdawg said:

 

I only read about the sole issues after I had extensively tested the ZX5's on course for 4-5 rounds. The issue didn't show up in fitting/testing off the mats at all. So I had no knowledge of it until i came on here and did some researching after getting mixed results out on the course myself. Of course, i did plenty of research on the irons prior to purchasing. And hit them on 3 separate indoor sessions before buying them. 

So you read about them enough to specifically request them but didn't read about the soles until after? Like I said at this point sounds like going back to the fitter is a good idea. Good luck!

 

[Mob]

I have both the ZX7 and the ZX5 iron sets.  I am mainly a picker as well, but not consistent enough to say that all the time.  I love both sets of irons.  I am not convinced that the v sole or the bounce is the issue.  It maybe far cheaper to reshaft your 7 iron and see if it fixes your issue.

[bigdawg]

9 minutes ago, ephmen said:

So you read about them enough to specifically request them but didn't read about the soles until after? Like I said at this point sounds like going back to the fitter is a good idea. Good luck!

 

 

Thanks for the input 🙂

[bigdawg]

8 minutes ago, Mob said:

I have both the ZX7 and the ZX5 iron sets.  I am mainly a picker as well, but not consistent enough to say that all the time.  I love both sets of irons.  I am not convinced that the v sole or the bounce is the issue.  It maybe far cheaper to reshaft your 7 iron and see if it fixes your issue.

 

Its one of the things i am considering. Thanks.

[richardfprice]

I got these last year and they were 1-2 more mph of ball speed from the ZX7. Just seemed like it was a hotter face.

[Jeff58]

You can instantly know whether you’re going to likely have some degree of “interaction” with the v sole by looking at your angle of attack. The ZX5’s initial / leading edge bounce angle is as high as 16 degrees. The ability of a decent hitting mat to absorb the sole area is why you don’t notice it indoors.

 

For me, if the AOA is more positive than about -2, the sole will have a noticeable effect, and normally not a positive one.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Jeff58

[black bnr32]

Bend your old irons strong, get an even lower spinning ball, and I’m guessing you’ll gain 10 yards no problem.

Edited September 28, 2022 by black bnr32

[borloryau]

It's not the clubs. Learn how to control your low-point, and improve your ball-striking. 

[puttingmatt]

1 hour ago, borloryau said:

It's not the clubs. Learn how to control your low-point, and improve your ball-striking. 

I certainly agree with this, and almost posted a simular comment, but as I have read the OP responses, I  now 

believe that the OP has lost confidence

in the ZX5'S, and believe that an iron 

set purchase is on the horizon. 

Also believe, that the v sole design of these  irons are not for every player.

Fortunately, the OP has choices, and there are lots of club designs to choose from.

 

[Benkross]

Have you tried the Mizuno 225s? Great looking, better for pickers, really hot. 

[JermWRX]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:26 AM, bigdawg said:

So I recently got fitted for a new set of Srixon ZX5s

 

Previously i had been gaming Tourstage Z101's for about a decade but they were killing me on distance (eventhough i love playing with them). I could live with needing a club longer to get the distance but where it really hurt was when i was playing into a headwind (which is often), I could need a 5 iron to cover 160 when playing partners were hitting a comfortable 6 or even a juiced up 7. Like i say, I was OK with being a club longer each time, but it was a struggle in windy conditions.

 

I was fit for the ZX5 having tested a 7 iron exclusively and was given Modus 105 R shafts which were giving me lower spin numbers (which i needed as i spin it a lot) than my old KBS Tours.

 

I am 50 y/o with a moderate swing speed (around 85mph with 7 iron and around 95-100 on Driver). I'm an 'OK' ballstriker in low teen's handicap but I tend to be a picker of the ball and don't take much of a divot.

 

So my issue with the ZX5 is: since going out on the course I just cant find the sweetspot with regularity with them. I have hit several shots where the club either bounced into the ball resulting in a thin down the fairway, or it dug in before I got to the ball and I hit the ball fat (and high on the face). Now  I have hit some great shots with them also but its no good with the other stuff mixed in. I did read some further posts last night where it suggested that pickers should stay away from wide soled irons. I am now starting to see why. 

 

When I went back onto WRX last night, there were several reviews like this where guys either loved or hated the sole – depending on their swings (picker or digger) and their course turf conditions (firm or soft).

 

So now, I am resigned to moving them on,  and i am looking for suggestions as to what clubs to try next? I do need extra distance but in a more compact profile with more traditional looks. I could try the ZX7 but Im not sure I am good enough to play these and when i tested them initially, I was a good bit shorter (upto 10 yards per club total carry + roll) than i was with the ZX5's

 

Any help from someone who has been through this process would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. 

923 Hot Metal Pros. Minimal offset. Smaller head. Tons of ball speed and distance. Stop on a dime. I could go on and on... they’re just awesome irons. Sound exactly what you’re looking for.

[Landy]

On 10/14/2022 at 7:38 PM, JermWRX said:

923 Hot Metal Pros. Minimal offset. Smaller head. Tons of ball speed and distance. Stop on a dime. I could go on and on... they’re just awesome irons. Sound exactly what you’re looking for.

@JermWRX but are the 923 HMP as soft as the ZX5s?  Thank you

[JermWRX]

2 hours ago, Landy said:

@JermWRX but are the 923 HMP as soft as the ZX5s?  Thank you

I haven’t hit the ZX5, so I can’t say for certain. ZX5 does have a forged body, but both irons have hollow heads, and I find my HMP to be plenty soft enough. I think they feel fantastic, but that may be different depending on the user. Also, the lofts on the HMP are quite a bit stronger than ZX5, so that could help you gain some distance that you’re looking for. You should find a place to demo them. I’d love to hear the results. Every round I have with my new irons, is more pleasant than the last. I really love these clubs.