How FAST can you walk 18?

[Denny100]

3 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

 

So true!

 

And their scores are generally about the same every time out, too! So there's also this impression that they're maybe just a bit better than they really are because of that pseudo-consistency, LOL. 

 

 

.

 

ill add into that often they just keep punting the ball with the same club over and over and over, so dont need to spend time choosing a club. Usually its just whatever will go far off the ground.

 

And when it comes to chipping, theyre usually just chipping with the same type of chip shot, from the same club, regardless of the situation.

 

And theres no real degree of "course management" that needs to be done like wheres the miss, should i go for it or lay up etc, no its just punt....punt.....punt.....and in the hole for something between maybe a par and a double bogey.

 

Scores dont change because why would they? the round follows the same pattern constantly.

[Bad9]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I don't play fast. I play efficiently. If nobody is in front of me I hit the ball and go. The odds of making a 30' putt are slim, so I don't over-analyze it. Sense a line and hit it. I don't need to take practice swings. I used to, but it didn't help my scores. If anything, it hurt them as I was tired towards the end of the round.

 

Yeah, there are players who can play a round of speed golf just for the sake of getting back home quickly, but I think the main point of this thread is to see how quickly one can play while still trying to shoot a decent score.

 

You play pretty much the same way I do.

[ShortGolfer]

To me, an empty course is an opportunity for a casual practice round.  I just got a new Vokey 56/10S and figured

if I timed it right on a hot and humid summer day, there would be nobody in front of me and nobody behind me.

There was a guy a few holes in front of me but I didn't catch him until the last hole.  

I bought an extra bottle of water and needed it, drinking water on nearly every hole.

Figured it took about 2:15 for a long practice round of 9 holes.  Brought six wedges and used five!

 

[Long_Left]

My regular group, three of us, walks from November until it gets back up above 85 degrees, late April/early May. On the rare days we play unimpeded in front we can casually get around from 6800 yards in 3:30. I've been in a solo cart with nobody around and played 18 in 2 hours pretty stress free, I'd guess 2:30-2:45 would be as fast as I could go solo walking and still play respectable golf.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Long_Left
grammar

[8602081]

For me......3:30 to 4 hours is Ideal for 3-4 some.... 

 

 

 

[Argonne69]

5 hours ago, MelloYello said:

One of the hall-marks of people describing fast rounds is that they'll openly describe their process of hitting a shot and you can see it requires very little thought. 

 

I totally respect "easy golf" that's there to allow folks to decompress, relax and enjoy the outdoors. I think "easy" courses are great. 

 

But, to me, if you're talking about walking up to your ball, pulling a club without a ton of consideration and feeling fine, you're probably playing a relatively hazard-free course where the rough isn't very penal or the slopes aren't significant or the green complexes are relatively simple and maybe the greens themselves are generally basic. 

 

The more complex a course, the more thinking you have to do to get around without making a bogey (or worse) on every hole. 

 

So if you're happy playing an easy course, great! And if you're willing to shoot 80 and go home happy, even better!

 

 

I don't find that a tough course requires more time for decision making. It might take more time due to the extra shots, but the thought process? I tend to play away from trouble, so it's a fairly easy and quick decision on the risk/reward 5s. Lay up. Doesn't take a whole lotta time to decide that. 

 

Driveable short 4 with trouble? Play short of the trouble. 

 

Tough par 3 with a tucked pin? What pin. Grab the distance to the fat of the green and fire away. 

 

I'm not playing for a million dollar check or a US Open trophy. I've played enough tough courses to know that minimizing risks is the key to a good score. Sure, I might have the round of my life and shave off a couple of strokes by playing aggressive, but the odds are against it. Tough courses often make the decision making process really simple. 

 

I'll add that having a GPS helps speed up play. I can have my yardage ready as I walk to my ball without having to set the bag down, grab a laser, and fire at the pin. Also, a GPS with the hole layout allows me to quickly identify hidden hazards. As I'm walking to the next teebox I can already see that it's likely going to be less than driver with a fairway ending 230 yds at a crossing creek. 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

5 hours ago, Denny100 said:

 

ill add into that often they just keep punting the ball with the same club over and over and over, so dont need to spend time choosing a club. Usually its just whatever will go far off the ground.

 

And when it comes to chipping, theyre usually just chipping with the same type of chip shot, from the same club, regardless of the situation.

 

And theres no real degree of "course management" that needs to be done like wheres the miss, should i go for it or lay up etc, no its just punt....punt.....punt.....and in the hole for something between maybe a par and a double bogey.

 

Scores dont change because why would they? the round follows the same pattern constantly.

 

Judy Rankin said, "Short and straight is highly underrated."

 

Play rounds in the retirement communities west of Phoenix. The old timers don't mess around. Played in a fivesome a few winters back and we finished in under 4 hours. They know their course, and they know their game. The save the socializing for after the round. The golf is quick and efficient. I believe many players could learn a lot from watching them. 

 

[mshills]

32 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I don't find that a tough course requires more time for decision making. It might take more time due to the extra shots, but the thought process? I tend to play away from trouble, so it's a fairly easy and quick decision on the risk/reward 5s. Lay up. Doesn't take a whole lotta time to decide that. 

 

Driveable short 4 with trouble? Play short of the trouble. 

 

Tough par 3 with a tucked pin? What pin. Grab the distance to the fat of the green and fire away. 

 

I'm not playing for a million dollar check or a US Open trophy. I've played enough tough courses to know that minimizing risks is the key to a good score. Sure, I might have the round of my life and shave off a couple of strokes by playing aggressive, but the odds are against it. Tough courses often make the decision making process really simple. 

 

I'll add that having a GPS helps speed up play. I can have my yardage ready as I walk to my ball without having to set the bag down, grab a laser, and fire at the pin. Also, a GPS with the hole layout allows me to quickly identify hidden hazards. As I'm walking to the next teebox I can already see that it's likely going to be less than driver with a fairway ending 230 yds at a crossing creek. 

Agree with this. Making decisions has such a tiny impact on pace of play, I can’t imagine it’s even really a factor. Alcohol, improper cart usage, and not being ready to play when it is time to play absolutely dwarf the few extra seconds a player takes to decide whether to go for it with 3w or not. 
 

I do find the few seconds it takes me to laser a pin is just enough to get my breath and heart rate to tick down, so for me it’s not extra time, as I’d take those couple moments anyhow. 

[Denny100]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Judy Rankin said, "Short and straight is highly underrated."

 

Play rounds in the retirement communities west of Phoenix. The old timers don't mess around. Played in a fivesome a few winters back and we finished in under 4 hours. They know their course, and they know their game. The save the socializing for after the round. The golf is quick and efficient. I believe many players could learn a lot from watching them. 

 

 

Thanks. But no.

 

I dont think Judy Rankin's quote was suggesting hit the ball 110 yards shorter and increase your handicap by 1500% just because you might make a 72 year olds or @klebs01 round last 3.30 mins and not 2.45 mins

Edited September 7, 2023 by Denny100

[tatertot]

7 hours ago, Denny100 said:

 

These sorts of players are definitely the quickest

 

The ones that can keep punting it 170-200 in front of them, then punt it again, hopefully theyre on the green, but if not pitching/chipping

 

1) They never have to wait for people to clear a landing area on the fairway. They cant reach 250+

2) They never have to wait for a green to clear on a par 5. Same reason. Cant reach

3) They hit it short enough theyre never in the bunkers or the trees. Or at least its very rare

4) Usually scuttle it along very low, so wind and course conditions are irrelevant

5) Know the course absolutely inside out so can just putt by instinct

 

See loads of these people and they tend to be extremely fast. But again usually for very little or no reason.

Why does it make you angry that people play faster than you? 

 

I guess I don't understand this mind set ... "It takes me this long to play ... It should take everyone this long to play." And yes, I don't understand the opposite mindset either ...

 

But your mindset is to belittle anyone that plays faster than you and make excuses on WHY they're faster than you ... have you ever considered you are a slow golfer?

 

Guarantee you will respond that you aren't a slow golfer ... because no one has ever admitted to being a slow golfer. Everyone else just golfs too fast.

[Denny100]

1 minute ago, tatertot said:

Why does it make you angry that people play faster than you? 

 

I guess I don't understand this mind set ... "It takes me this long to play ... It should take everyone this long to play." And yes, I don't understand the opposite mindset either ...

 

But your mindset is to belittle anyone that plays faster than you and make excuses on WHY they're faster than you ... have you ever considered you are a slow golfer?

 

Guarantee you will respond that you aren't a slow golfer ... because no one has ever admitted to being a slow golfer. Everyone else just golfs too fast.

 

Well for one, if i can play in a four ball in 3.5 hours, am I "slow"?

 

Is the fact that i COULD go round the course in 2.5 hours on my own on a normal layout of 6,600-6,700 yards if i really wanted to but would almost certainly play worse than playing the 18 in 3 hours a reason to be called "slow"?

 

Id be a slow golfer by your definition but then again so would about 95% of golfers because people dont finish in sub 3 hours much, if at all.

 

And frankly theyre not excuses either. 

 

If you have to wait for landing areas and greens to clear, then at least in the short term things will back up a little bit until such people regain position on the course.

 

Tough.

 

 

[Denny100]

And also I dont run around courses on my own like a marathon runner because ive got..... friends? 

 

 

[Long_Left]

5 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Why does it make you angry that people play faster than you? 

 

I guess I don't understand this mind set ... "It takes me this long to play ... It should take everyone this long to play." And yes, I don't understand the opposite mindset either ...

 

But your mindset is to belittle anyone that plays faster than you and make excuses on WHY they're faster than you ... have you ever considered you are a slow golfer?

 

Guarantee you will respond that you aren't a slow golfer ... because no one has ever admitted to being a slow golfer. Everyone else just golfs too fast.

I'm not the poster of your quote, but here goes...

 

Slow golfers are no fun, and neither are racehorses. I won't go into personal anecdotes, because I'm certain we all have them.

 

Suffice it to say, I'd personally rather wait on the group in front of me than have a group of angry old men behind me. Even worse is when the course is packed and you still have to hear about it on every tee box like you have any ability to do something about it aside from walking off the course. 

 

Play fast, I'll happily let you play through if there is room and you're faster than me, just don't be a vegan and feel the need to tell everyone in the world how fast you are, and how much they suck in comparison. I'm not saying he's right, but everyone knows the type, and they are miserable to be around.

[tatertot]

6 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

And also I dont run around courses on my own like a marathon runner because ive got..... friends? 

 

 

And another excuse ... 

[tatertot]

2 minutes ago, Long_Left said:

I'm not the poster of your quote, but here goes...

 

Slow golfers are no fun, and neither are racehorses. I won't go into personal anecdotes, because I'm certain we all have them.

 

Suffice it to say, I'd personally rather wait on the group in front of me than have a group of angry old men behind me. Even worse is when the course is packed and you still have to hear about it on every tee box like you have any ability to do something about it aside from walking off the course. 

 

Play fast, I'll happily let you play through if there is room and you're faster than me, just don't be a vegan and feel the need to tell everyone in the world how fast you are, and how much they suck in comparison. I'm not saying he's right, but everyone knows the type, and they are miserable to be around.

I totally agree ... there are fast players and slow players. Complaining does no good. I don't understand why fast players think everyone should play fast ... but at the same time, I don't know why slower players think everyone needs to slow down - or all fast players are inferior. That was my point to Denny100 ... ALL of his posts are condescending and pointing out why he is better than faster players. They are either old, short hitters, or now, lonely. Everyone should play golf his way ... because it's his way.

[Denny100]

Just now, tatertot said:

And another excuse ... 

 

Ok.

 

Why do I NEED to play any quicker than 3.5 hours in a four ball, or quicker than 3 hours if I was ever on my own?

 

My score, and those of the group for one will almost certainly suffer.

 

Secondly, almost no one, alright maybe ONE percent of people if im being generous, are moving at your type of speed around the course.

 

So what do you think youre going to achieve by hassling the group in front of you? should everyone just get out of the way for your benefit?

 

Some people are slower than you, some people are faster than you, some people are slower than ME, some people are faster than ME.

 

Big deal. Suck it up.

 

[tatertot]

1 minute ago, Denny100 said:

 

Ok.

 

Why do I NEED to play any quicker than 3.5 hours in a four ball, or quicker than 3 hours if I was ever on my own?

 

My score, and those of the group for one will almost certainly suffer.

 

Secondly, almost no one, alright maybe ONE percent of people if im being generous, are moving at your type of speed around the course.

 

So what do you think youre going to achieve by hassling the group in front of you? should everyone just get out of the way for your benefit?

 

Some people are slower than you, some people are faster than you, some people are slower than ME, some people are faster than ME.

 

Big deal. Suck it up.

 

Rules of golf say let faster groups play thru ... it takes 2 minutes to let a faster group play through, or you can slow down a group for 2 hours. Which do you think is the proper course of action?

As it's been stated over and over, a packed course is a different situation.

 

And I'm not the one hassling every poster in the thread ...

[Denny100]

2 minutes ago, tatertot said:

I totally agree ... there are fast players and slow players. Complaining does no good. I don't understand why fast players think everyone should play fast ... but at the same time, I don't know why slower players think everyone needs to slow down - or all fast players are inferior. That was my point to Denny100 ... ALL of his posts are condescending and pointing out why he is better than faster players. They are either old, short hitters, or now, lonely. Everyone should play golf his way ... because it's his way.

 

Oh leave it out.

 

The thread has been mostly about the sort of speed single players or players in small groups can achieve.

 

Secondly, the type of golfer i mentioned, the short scuttly hitter is the fastest usually, and if they dont take any time on the greens, of course theyre going to be fast. LOADS of these players dont even know a yardage, you dont think ive played with enough of them? some of them grab the same club CONTINUOUSLY off every fairway.

 

Thirdly, if i AM better than a lot of the faster players at golf, and given that off my handicap I basically am, what are you suggesting, play worse and quicker for their benefit? why exactly.

 

 

 

 

[Denny100]

1 minute ago, tatertot said:

Rules of golf say let faster groups play thru ... it takes 2 minutes to let a faster group play through, or you can slow down a group for 2 hours. Which do you think is the proper course of action?

As it's been stated over and over, a packed course is a different situation.

 

And I'm not the one hassling every poster in the thread ...

 

Slow down a group for 2 HOURS?

 

You think that if there was no one else around except my group and yours, that my group will hold your group up by TWO HOURS?

 

So if we finish in 3.5 hours, YOU are going to finish an entire round in 90 mins?

 

And im not hassling "every poster in the thread" either, ive contributed to the thread.

 

 

[tatertot]

2 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

Oh leave it out.

 

The thread has been mostly about the sort of speed single players or players in small groups can achieve.

 

Secondly, the type of golfer i mentioned, the short scuttly hitter is the fastest usually, and if they dont take any time on the greens, of course theyre going to be fast. LOADS of these players dont even know a yardage, you dont think ive played with enough of them? some of them grab the same club CONTINUOUSLY off every fairway.

 

Thirdly, if i AM better than a lot of the faster players at golf, and given that off my handicap I basically am, what are you suggesting, play worse and quicker for their benefit? why exactly.

 

 

 

 

Some of 'em probably even work with their hands ... scummy little blighters. Kick 'em all of the course I say!

[Denny100]

1 minute ago, tatertot said:

Some of 'em probably even work with their hands ... scummy little blighters. Kick 'em all of the course I say!

 

You are coming across as a bit of a weirdo now and derailing the thread, so id give it a rest.

[tatertot]

Just now, Denny100 said:

 

You are coming across as a bit of a weirdo now and derailing the thread, so id give it a rest.

You're obviously someone who thinks quite highly of themself. I'm sorry for intruding on your safe space. Continue on.

[Denny100]

2 minutes ago, tatertot said:

You're obviously someone who thinks quite highly of themself. I'm sorry for intruding on your safe space. Continue on.

 

Its not that i think highly of myself, its that ive absolutely no idea how to respond to you.

 

Youre making some of the weirdest comments and suggestions ive ever heard. Youre suggesting that I belittle people with manual jobs whilst having one myself. Completely weird.

 

Youre suggesting that me in particular im outrageously slow at golf, despite playing at basically the same speed as everyone else thats normal.

 

Youre suggesting that im condescending towards everyone on the course when youve never met me, never will, and have no idea who I play with day to day

 

Youre suggesting that in some sort of backhanded compliment way I shouldnt describe myself as a better golfer than the vast majority, despite the fact that at least in handicap terms I am

 

And youre also quite weirdly contradicting yourself by suggesting I can only see golf from my perspective and everyone has to bend to that, yet here you are moaning that im your poster boy for slower players and you want all of them to "speed up" for your benefit.

 

Its just weird mate and to be honest, youve had an absolute mare on this thread as we would say over here 👍👍

 

So lets leave it there.

[mshills]

IBTL!

[Denny100]

10 minutes ago, mshills said:

IBTL!

 

I really hope not, it was an interesting thread before it got weird with things being thrown around

[david.c.w]

Back on track.  Everyone has a different outlook and goal on playing golf, and it is not always consistent day to day.

 

Mine changes all the time.  Today we have 2 fivesomes playing against each other.  It is Friday and has been a long work week and we are out to have fun with the guys.  (Yes, we do this all the time and keep pace with the group in front).  If i go out solo on a Tuesday at 4:00 I am more interested in efficiency than comradery and score.  Sunday morning rounds are more focused on score.  

 

@Argonne69 made interesting statements in some earlier posts.  Score is not his primary driver for playing golf.  He is not spending time looking at a putt from behind the hole.  If the putt goes in, great.  If not, he taps it in, is not the US Open.  While I don't want to put words in his mouth, I think if he had to rank his priorities it is experience > efficiency > score.  New courses and new people are big drivers for him.  This POV is not right or wrong, but it is right for him.  

 

Lots of people get caught up in how other people do things.  Some people are out there to score.  Some people are out there to have fun.  Some people like to play fast.  Some people play for the escape.

 

There will always be extremes on how people play.  The a-holes who try to run you over.  The tool that lines up a putt like Dechambeau.  The drunk frat bros.  The snails that just want to talk instead of hit balls.

 

I look at putts from behind the hole.  It is important to me.  I do it in a way to make me not slow, but I am not running around trying to race.

 

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

19 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Judy Rankin said, "Short and straight is highly underrated."

 

Play rounds in the retirement communities west of Phoenix. The old timers don't mess around. Played in a fivesome a few winters back and we finished in under 4 hours. They know their course, and they know their game. The save the socializing for after the round. The golf is quick and efficient. I believe many players could learn a lot from watching them. 

 

 

His point is that the retired seniors you describe aren't trying to play fast. It's natural.

 

Ask any of those guys to go shoot 67 hitting it 200 yards off the tee and hitting fairway metals into Par-4s and guess what? They won't be able to do it. 

 

If they could hit it further, they would...and they'd naturally slow down.

 

If they could challenge the course in more ways, they would...and they'd naturally slow down.

 

If they could shoot better scores, they would...and they'd naturally slow down. 

 

The irregularly-fast PoP of those you describe isn't heroic or even much of a choice. It's an artifact of someone being the odd combination of (1) highly experienced at something but also (2) very limited.

 

 

I could permanently irradicate auto accidents by never driving more than 10mph...would that be worth it? Nope. I'll accept the risks and so would those seniors if they could have their games back. 

[tatertot]

24 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

His point is that the retired seniors you describe aren't trying to play fast. It's natural.

 

Ask any of those guys to go shoot 67 hitting it 200 yards off the tee and hitting fairway metals into Par-4s and guess what? They won't be able to do it. 

 

If they could hit it further, they would...and they'd naturally slow down.

 

If they could challenge the course in more ways, they would...and they'd naturally slow down.

 

If they could shoot better scores, they would...and they'd naturally slow down. 

 

The irregularly-fast PoP of those you describe isn't heroic or even much of a choice. It's an artifact of someone being the odd combination of (1) highly experienced at something but also (2) very limited.

 

 

I could permanently irradicate auto accidents by never driving more than 10mph...would that be worth it? Nope. I'll accept the risks and so would those seniors if they could have their games back. 

This is the problem many golfers have ... you ASSUME they would slow down for all these reasons. Why would they slow down if they hit it further/challenged course more/scored lower? There are players on the PGA Tour that play really fast, and players who play really slow. I shot a 66 on an empty course Tuesday in 2 hours. I've shot a 66 on the same course in 4 hours when it was busy. I've also shot in the mid 70s in 2 hours ... and 4 hours. Just because YOU slow down to play better, don't assume everyone does. Just like the fast player shouldn't assume everyone should play fast.

[Denny100]

26 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

His point is that the retired seniors you describe aren't trying to play fast. It's natural.

 

Ask any of those guys to go shoot 67 hitting it 200 yards off the tee and hitting fairway metals into Par-4s and guess what? They won't be able to do it. 

 

If they could hit it further, they would...and they'd naturally slow down.

 

If they could challenge the course in more ways, they would...and they'd naturally slow down.

 

If they could shoot better scores, they would...and they'd naturally slow down. 

 

The irregularly-fast PoP of those you describe isn't heroic or even much of a choice. It's an artifact of someone being the odd combination of (1) highly experienced at something but also (2) very limited.

 

 

I could permanently irradicate auto accidents by never driving more than 10mph...would that be worth it? Nope. I'll accept the risks and so would those seniors if they could have their games back. 

 

Its exactly this.

 

Two hypothetical players playing a hypothetical 440 yard par 4, which one would be quicker:

 

Player A

 

• Hits the ball about 200 off the tee with his driver. So the people who are 160-170 yards away from the green arent reachable, so away he goes
• He cant reach any of the hazards or cross bunkers at 240-270 yards, because theyve been put there for a scratch player. So he gives it no thought. doesnt need to.
• When he reaches his ball, hes got absolutely no decision to make. He cant reach the green. So its simple, he will grab the club that will go the furthest and hit it, get it as close to the green as possible. Job done.
• He then chips it onto the green. He might take some time over this and he should do. Same with the putting. But he wont have ever waited for the green to clear in the process because he knew he couldnt reach. Chances are he will also be SHORT of the green, chipping off the fairway, so very little thought is required.

 

Player B

 

• Is off scratch, and he hits it 280 off the tee. Straight away his focus is on how to attack the hole WITHOUT hitting it in the bunkers, the trees or whatever. So straight away he has a more complicated decision to make.
• He has people in front of him waiting for the green to clear. He can hit them. So he has to wait until the green is clear, so the people in the fairway can also move on, and then hit.
• From wherever he has hit the ball, there is now an onus on him being accurate with his approach. So he needs to get a yardage, and think about the club that will get him close to the pin or the area he wants to finish in. So again, he has more complicated decisions to make. He is far more in need of checking the wind, the conditions, the terrain, the topography, everything.
• He can hit the green, so he needs to wait for the green to clear.
• Hes off scratch, he has no margin for error. So when hes on or around the green, he needs to get the ball down in 2, or ideally 1. He needs to survey how to get the ball into the hole by giving the putt a thorough read and putting a good stroke/chip on the ball, to maximise the chances.

 

Its not that player B has to be SLOW to do that, but its obvious that player B will likely take LONGER to play the hole, even though he has played the hole considerably better.

 

Its not to say player B cant finish the round with three other players LIKE him in 3.30 mins

 

But to play like player A, it would make ZERO sense.

 

This is obvious to anyone who isnt having a really poor attempt at playing devils advocate.

 

[Denny100]

8 minutes ago, tatertot said:

This is the problem many golfers have ... you ASSUME they would slow down for all these reasons. Why would they slow down if they hit it further/challenged course more/scored lower? There are players on the PGA Tour that play really fast, and players who play really slow. I shot a 66 on an empty course Tuesday in 2 hours. I've shot a 66 on the same course in 4 hours when it was busy. I've also shot in the mid 70s in 2 hours ... and 4 hours. Just because YOU slow down to play better, don't assume everyone does. Just like the fast player shouldn't assume everyone should play fast.

 

You know, its really interesting how you claim all the "slow" players are the problem because they are projecting their "slowness" onto everyone else and making everyone bend to their pace....

 

Whilst totally contradicting yourself with every post that everyone should bend to your "fast" pace.

 

Youre doing the EXACT thing you are accusing the "slow" players of.

 

We arent going to see eye to eye but you haven't half let yourself down on this thread.