Tot Hill Farm - New Ownership

[miss0033]

Tot Hill Farm has been sold to a new owner: https://randolphrecord.com/original-ownership-group-sells-tot-hill-farm-golf-club/

 

I first played it in 2008 and really liked it, quirks and all.  Have played it several times since and it has been in a steady decline.  When I last played it in Sept 2021, several tee boxes had been abandoned, several fairways with crab grass taking over, 2 greens were almost just dirt with no grass, a few cart paths looked like there had been a recent earthquake... It was in rough shape.

 

I'd like to see this course make a recovery.  There are only 6 public Mike Strantz courses, and all have a sister course nearby.  (Royal New Kent and Stone House, True Blue and Caledonia, Tobacco road and Tot Hill Farm)  Hopefully they can bring this one back, it was a really nice (and fun) course in 2008.

[NCLancer]

Nice article and thanks for sharing.  We live about 1 1/2 hours from Tot Hill and have played it a few times but not in the last few years as reviews have not been kind.  It is (or can/will be again) a very nice course with unique challenges and a fantastic design.  I certainly wish the new owner the best of luck and I look forward to getting down there again. 

[caniac6]

They should blow it up, and start over.

[miss0033]

It looks like they are starting some work on the course:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn96_oqOumK/?hl=en

[postfold]

On 12/12/2022 at 12:20 PM, miss0033 said:

I first played it in 2008 and really liked it, quirks and all. 

 

On 12/15/2022 at 2:47 PM, caniac6 said:

They should blow it up, and start over.

 

People think Tobacco Road is polarizing ... if more people played Tot Hill it would make the Tobacco Road debates seem positively tame in comparison.

 

I played it once, during the 2000s.  That was sufficient.  And I like Tobacco Road a great deal, so it's not that I don't like Strantz courses.

 

Still, even as a non-fan I'm glad to see an ownership group that's going to put some money behind it.  It's no doubt a one of a kind course.

[chisag]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:36 PM, NCLancer said:

We live about 1 1/2 hours from Tot Hill and have played it a few times but not in the last few years as reviews have not been kind.  It is (or can/will be again) a very nice course with unique challenges and a fantastic design.

 

 

.... Count me as a fan. When my parents were alive in Greensboro, I always made it down to Tot Hill when I visited. One of my favorite courses anywhere in the US. 

[ChrisSP]

On 12/15/2022 at 2:47 PM, caniac6 said:

They should blow it up, and start over.

 

This ^^^^^

[miss0033]

On 1/31/2023 at 7:03 PM, postfold said:

 

 

People think Tobacco Road is polarizing ... if more people played Tot Hill it would make the Tobacco Road debates seem positively tame in comparison.

 

I played it once, during the 2000s.  That was sufficient.  And I like Tobacco Road a great deal, so it's not that I don't like Strantz courses.

 

Still, even as a non-fan I'm glad to see an ownership group that's going to put some money behind it.  It's no doubt a one of a kind course.

 

Ultimately, that is part of the reason I liked it.  There are a few holes; #9 sucks, its one of the worst holes in golf.  That steep uphill climb, with a blind green that has a false front...  I have seen shots from 70 yards that hit the front of the green and end up further away than they started.  However it comes after #8, which is one of my favorite Par 5s.

 

I like that it is different.  When I travel to play golf, I want to play courses that are unique.  Pinehurst #1, #5, and #7 all might as well be a local muni near my home, winding through a neighborhood on relatively flat ground.  I doubt I could pick out any single hole from any one of those courses. 

 

I sure as heck wouldn't want to play Tot Hill weekly.  But I wouldn't mind playing it a few times a year, and do enjoy getting to play it every 2-3 years when I make it down there visiting family.  It is one of those rounds where I care much less about my score and enjoy laughing at some of the breaks/bounces you get, both good and bad.  I look forward to the 10-15 stretch every time.  

 

I am an Architect (building, not golf course) by trade so maybe that is partially why I am drawn so much to Mr. Strantz's work, and his risk taking on designs rather than doing the safe thing...  If everyone took the safe approach nothing would ever change.  Heck, DMK's design at Bandon Dunes was NOT the safe approach at the time and look at what has happened there and beyond since then.  There is a course near me The Quarry at Giants Ridge, that the GCA, Jeff Brauer, has said wouldn't exist in the way that it does if he hadn't been able to show the clients Tobacco Road.  The Quarry is my favorite course in my state (MN), not belonging to or being able to play any private courses.  I am happy that these courses exist because they have lead to other things.  Strantz's body of original work is so small, being only 6 courses, I'd like to see them preserved.  Hopefully one day I can play them all.  I haven't played Royal New Kent or Stonehouse yet, thankfully those are with new ownership hoping to keep it around as well.  And hopefully someday in the future I can find my way to an invite or event at Bulls Bay.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by miss0033

[HandsomeMatt]

            I've played it quite a bit and absolutely love it. Personally I've always found it inspired me to play some great golf, it doesn't play incredibly long and the par 3's there are pretty great, par 5's are reachable in two if you have a good long game. It's the environment and routing that make it almost unsustainable, having played every Stranz course except Bull's Bay,  I can't help but wonder how his design evolution might have changed as he got older and was able to witness how challenging it was to maintain some of them, how they aged. If you have played both Tot and Stonehouse especially, it's pretty evident.  

 Last July was the first time I ever played Tot and debated on going back, the greens were almost unplayable. It was a saturday afternoon on july 4th weekend, my tee was at 1:30, I arrived at 1 and there were 3 cars in the lot. I didn't see anyone on the course until the 16th . Three day holiday weekend and saturday afternoon the course is empty!  Went there again about 3 weeks ago after hearing about the new ownership and they'd already started taking some trees out and the greens were significantly better. Granted bent always seems to play better around here in the colder weather but they looked much better and actually cared for. Word is theyre actually starting the green renovations in May and getting rid of the bent grass and putting in zoysia as opposed to bermuda.  

[caniac6]

1 hour ago, HandsomeMatt said:

            I've played it quite a bit and absolutely love it. Personally I've always found it inspired me to play some great golf, it doesn't play incredibly long and the par 3's there are pretty great, par 5's are reachable in two if you have a good long game. It's the environment and routing that make it almost unsustainable, having played every Stranz course except Bull's Bay,  I can't help but wonder how his design evolution might have changed as he got older and was able to witness how challenging it was to maintain some of them, how they aged. If you have played both Tot and Stonehouse especially, it's pretty evident.  

 Last July was the first time I ever played Tot and debated on going back, the greens were almost unplayable. It was a saturday afternoon on july 4th weekend, my tee was at 1:30, I arrived at 1 and there were 3 cars in the lot. I didn't see anyone on the course until the 16th . Three day holiday weekend and saturday afternoon the course is empty!  Went there again about 3 weeks ago after hearing about the new ownership and they'd already started taking some trees out and the greens were significantly better. Granted bent always seems to play better around here in the colder weather but they looked much better and actually cared for. Word is theyre actually starting the green renovations in May and getting rid of the bent grass and putting in zoysia as opposed to bermuda.  

We have two courses in town with Zoysia, and they are not good. Another close by had Zoysia, and converted to Bermuda last year, and it’s been a huge improvement. Unless there are new, improved varieties of Zoysia, I believe they will regret not going with Bermuda or some of the new heat tolerant Bent.

[HandsomeMatt]

I'd have to assume it's one of the newer strains but I honestly don't know. Never knew zoysia was an option until very recently, this might be encouraging though https://theturfzone.com/podcast_association/turfgrass-council-of-north-carolina-zoysiagrass-putting-greens-what-weve-learned-so-far/

[sunbeltgolfer]

Sequoyah National in Cherokee converted to Zeon Zoysia on tees, fairways and green surrounds. Having played it before and after the change, it is a huge improvement.  As far as I know it's the only course I've played with it and the ball sits up beautifully on the fairways and approached. I don't know if this strain of the grass is newer or different, but, I'm a fan.

[caniac6]

6 hours ago, sunbeltgolfer said:

Sequoyah National in Cherokee converted to Zeon Zoysia on tees, fairways and green surrounds. Having played it before and after the change, it is a huge improvement.  As far as I know it's the only course I've played with it and the ball sits up beautifully on the fairways and approached. I don't know if this strain of the grass is newer or different, but, I'm a fan.

No question about zoysia for those parts of the course, but they are talking about using it on greens.

[sunbeltgolfer]

46 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

No question about zoysia for those parts of the course, but they are talking about using it on greens.

That will be an interesting experiment. The way it holds up a golf ball I assume they will have to cut them very short to keep a smooth rolling surface. I'm no turf expert, but, it will be interesting to see how well it handles heat and extreme cold. You seem to get some of the worst of both worlds in that area. 

[spineshank]

Theres a couple of courses in the Charlotte area using Zoysia on the greens. It will probably take awhile to get there but it stays nice. It can be grainy af though. 

[Drwoods2017]

Northstone comes to mind I think they are Zoysia and yes they can be super grainy. Sucks but I agree its really hard to keep any greens out there in good shape.

[snpcrk121]

Has anyone played Tot Hill recently? I am going to be in the area next week...have always found Strantz designs to be a lot of fun and the price is pretty reasonable. It sounds like conditions have improved a bit from some of the review last year, but just curious if it is worth playing.

[pgetzen]

Great article.  When I lived in NC, I always thought that Tot Hill Farm was Tobacco Road on steroids.  Not something I would want to play every week, but a couple of times per year, it was a lot of fun.  You just had to know that you might get some bad bounces.  As somebody said earlier, 9 was ridiculous.  But still fun.  Glad somebody is fixing it up.

[snpcrk121]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:40 PM, snpcrk121 said:

Has anyone played Tot Hill recently? I am going to be in the area next week...have always found Strantz designs to be a lot of fun and the price is pretty reasonable. It sounds like conditions have improved a bit from some of the review last year, but just curious if it is worth playing.

Just replying to my own post in case anyone else is considering heading out there. The course was extremely rough in a lot of spots, including a few tee boxes with almost no grass. The greens were OK though, which kept the course playable. I am glad we went but even $60 seems a bit high for the current conditions.

 

The guy in the shop said they are officially shutting down in May to do some more serious renovations. It will be interesting to see what they end up doing...the layout and scale of the course seem like it would be a major challenge to keep in good/reasonable conditions without a lot of money.

 

We played Tobacco Road on the trip and I think @pgetzen's description is perfect...basically Tobacco Road on steroids. I can see the course being fun, but is not something I would want to play too frequently and is better in a match play setting.

Edited April 14, 2023 by snpcrk121

[silverbackster]

 Stone House is private?!?!?

[miss0033]

1 hour ago, silverbackster said:

 Stone House is private?!?!?

 

I think originally that was the intent.  However I believe that business model didn't work out, it fell into disrepair, someone else bought it, brought it back, and it is now public.

 

I can go to the website and book an $85 tee time for tomorrow if I were so inclined.  Lots of openings.

[smashdn]

THF posted some updated pictures on their facebooks page today if you follow them.

[bluedot]

At the risk of over-generalizing, I think courses convert to Zoysia greens instead of Bermuda when there are shade issues that can’t be solved.  Zoysia is just much more shade tolerant that Bermuda.  I don’t know if it’s still true, but at one time, the guy that owned Champion Bermuda wouldn’t sell it to a course unless they took out the trees he said needed to go.
 

In a lot of cases, it’s because the trees that would have to be cut are in people’s yards adjoining the course, rather than on golf course property.  While that’s not true at Tot Hill, I suspect that you’d be looking clear cutting slopes around some of the greens in order to get enough sun for Bermuda.  It’s even possible that some of the slopes around the course are part of the Uwharrie National Forest; there’s a trailhead for the national forest less than a quarter of a mile from the golf course entrance.

 

All of that said, there are two big issues with zoysia greens, including the new hybrids like Tot Hill is putting in.  One is that you just can’t get and keep zoysia to the speeds available with bent or Bermuda.  The other is that your superintendent is on something of an island, because there are so few courses with those greens, and maybe none in your microclimate area. Supers share info and consult all the time, but if you’re the only kid on the block with that grass, well…

Edited August 27, 2023 by bluedot

[smashdn]

Where I am located I am not far from any of the major types of grasses aside from fine fescues for golf courses.  The benefit of the zoysia that I have seen granted only in fairway and bunker surround applications) is that it has a better cold tolerance than bermuda.  We have had two really harsh freezes in the last five years.  Bermuda fairways and greens really took a beating from them.  Zoysia fairways not as badly.

 

Zoysia also greens up sooner in spring and hangs on later in the fall than bermuda.  Dormant zoysia also tends to provide a longer lasting surface into the late winter and early spring than dormant bermuda.

 

Again, that is more confined to their use as fairway grasses.

[bluedot]

5 hours ago, smashdn said:

Where I am located I am not far from any of the major types of grasses aside from fine fescues for golf courses.  The benefit of the zoysia that I have seen granted only in fairway and bunker surround applications) is that it has a better cold tolerance than bermuda.  We have had two really harsh freezes in the last five years.  Bermuda fairways and greens really took a beating from them.  Zoysia fairways not as badly.

 

Zoysia also greens up sooner in spring and hangs on later in the fall than bermuda.  Dormant zoysia also tends to provide a longer lasting surface into the late winter and early spring than dormant bermuda.

 

Again, that is more confined to their use as fairway grasses.

Zoysia is just fantastic for a playing surface IF the course doesn’t get too much play.  Zoysia doesn’t recover as fast as Bermuda from divots or any other sort of damage.  But you are spot on about the advantages.

 

I think Tot Hill is putting in a new strain of Zoysia that has been developed specifically for use on greens, so I’m hopeful that it works because I love the golf course and want it to work for the new owners.  It’s still going to be a struggle, I think, to get the greens beyond a very average speed, but that may not be all bad given the contours of those greens.

[postfold]

3 minutes ago, bluedot said:

 It’s still going to be a struggle, I think, to get the greens beyond a very average speed, but that may not be all bad given the contours of those greens.

 

I think the greens would be completely unplayable if they were any faster than very average speed.  You are spot on unless they've been significantly changed since I played the course. 

 

If they can get the greens to healthy, relatively smooth and consistent that would be a huge win.

[smashdn]

How would a much firmer but average green speed green play there?  I don't know about the greens variety zoysias but when you build new or convert to bermuda greens they are very firm at first and become more receptive as they build some thatch.

 

A firm, highly contoured green may place even more importance on your angle into it and where you land it.

[miss0033]

Tot Hill Farm's new website is live.  Liking what I see on there so far.  Excited to play it, going to have to get down there soon.

[Looper34]

Reopens on Labor Day. Looking forward to some reviews.

[caniac6]

Are the rates $110 + $25 for a cart?