Too slow but also...too fast!

[teedub21]

Pace of play is the most important thing taught at our club.  When I first joined I was told by my friend who was already a member, “no one cares how you shoot, just don’t play slow”.  

 

My problem, when things slow down, is I feel like it screws up my rhythm. I, like many here, like a 3:30ish pace.  When I’m playing with someone who is slow I tend to feel like I’m rushing to give them the message or to make up for how slow they are, then my game suffers.  

 

Problem is, at a private club anyway, the starter or pro shop should know who plays fast and who doesn’t.  We have a rule, no fivesomes before noon on weekends, yet if you call the pro shop and ask, they’ll add a 5th to the group.  We teed off last Saturday at 9am as a foursome, a fivesome was allowed off two groups ahead of us and held the entire day up for everyone else.  

 

Pace of play really needs to be taught/addressed more in golf lessons.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, teedub21 said:

Pace of play is the most important thing taught at our club.

…

We teed off last Saturday at 9am as a foursome, a fivesome was allowed off two groups ahead of us and held the entire day up for everyone else.

 

Are you sure about that first thing? What did you, or the club, do about it?

[teedub21]

It is quite the oxymoron.  Pace pace pace is what we hear, but then they let this sort of thing happen.  Having said that, we are pretty much 4hr max for regular play.  

[Ri_Redneck]

I can deal with a slow player far better than one who is a PUSHER. I'm not saying that slow players aren't irritating, but people riding my *ss when there is obviously a group ahead of me really burns me up.

 

I will play as fast as the group in front of me allows. I played a public course (6900+/-) recently from the rear tees in a 10-15 mph wind and shot 78 in 2.5 hrs using a cart. I saw only one other player (behind me) for the entire round. Where I live in New England, the typical weekend time is 5 hrs on any public access course. I ask about the pace of the day in the pro shop and adjust my rhythm from the first tee.

 

BT

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

On 6/19/2023 at 5:09 AM, Denny100 said:

 

Well youre just wrong, and thats the end of the debate.

 

And you must play a pitch and putt if youre walking around 9 holes in a three or four ball in an hour.

Its very clear @Denny100 is right all the time. And everyone else is wrong all the time. You sure are very condescending. Must be nice to play golf by yourself all the time. To have to be around that type of attitude. I'd rather play in traffic.

[Pastit]

13 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I can deal with a slow player far better than one who is a PUSHER. I'm not saying that slow players aren't irritating, but people riding my *ss when there is obviously a group ahead of me really burns me up.

 

I will play as fast as the group in front of me allows. I played a public course (6900+/-) recently from the rear tees in a 10-15 mph wind and shot 78 in 2.5 hrs using a cart. I saw only one other player (behind me) for the entire round. Where I live in New England, the typical weekend time is 5 hrs on any public access course. I ask about the pace of the day in the pro shop and adjust my rhythm from the first tee.

 

BT

This is where etiquette is misunderstood. Over here, clubs set the order of play so it’s not just a question of a gap. If another match has the hierarchy of order then they must be let through irrespective of a gap. 

[Ri_Redneck]

1 hour ago, Pastit said:

This is where etiquette is misunderstood. Over here, clubs set the order of play so it’s not just a question of a gap. If another match has the hierarchy of order then they must be let through irrespective of a gap. 

Could you expand on the meaning of "hierarchy of order"?

 

BT

 

 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

2 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

Could you expand on the meaning of "hierarchy of order"?

 

BT

 

 

Must be a euro thing out there. Never heard of anything like this in the states.

[Ri_Redneck]

2 minutes ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

Must be a euro thing out there. Never heard of anything like this in the states.

I have heard the term, "singles have no standing" which relates to a single attempting to "plow" through all the groups because they're plying alone. I agree with that 100% since it can upset the whole schedule and tick a lot of folks off. Just curious.

 

BT

[Argonne69]

26 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I have heard the term, "singles have no standing" which relates to a single attempting to "plow" through all the groups because they're plying alone. I agree with that 100% since it can upset the whole schedule and tick a lot of folks off. Just curious.

 

BT

 

The rule regarding singles having no standing was changed over 15 years ago. Singles are now considered groups, and as with all groups, faster ones should be allowed to play through if there is an opening ahead.

 

[Ri_Redneck]

1 minute ago, Argonne69 said:

 

The rule regarding singles having no standing was changed over 15 years ago. Singles are now considered groups, and as with all groups, faster ones should be allowed to play through if there is an opening ahead.

 

I see clubs from time to time that still have it as a local rule.

 

BT

[Pastit]

1 hour ago, Ri_Redneck said:

Could you expand on the meaning of "hierarchy of order"?

 

BT

 

 

Of course, priority is given like this usually: FIRST: anyone playing a club competition of any sort or size of group: THEN: our clubs set a rule; or not, on priority by size of group, e.g. “ Monday to Friday 4-balls must give way to 2 balls unless 4-balls are in a club competition “.

 

What we do here is get to know the status of who is behind and ask if they wish to assert any priority they may have. Hope it helps.  Hope you can see this photo from my old club’s rules:

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Pastit
Spelling

[mshills]

It amazes me that the hoary old argument "singles have no standing" still gets rolled out and some courses still quote that as a local rule.  Ugh.

 

Of course there are limits -- a single doesn't get the right to play through group after group on a crowded course.  But on a Thursday mid-day, if a single rolls up on your customer golf group, jeez, let that guy through, it's better for everyone!

 

Even under the old guideline it was still incredibly rude to refuse to let a single through (again, assuming clear holes in front) because "harumph, he's got no standing!"

[klebs01]

3 hours ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I can deal with a slow player far better than one who is a PUSHER. I'm not saying that slow players aren't irritating, but people riding my *ss when there is obviously a group ahead of me really burns me up.

Why are looking behind you or concerned by what’s going on back there if there’s no where to go and you are in position?

[Ri_Redneck]

2 hours ago, klebs01 said:

Why are looking behind you or concerned by what’s going on back there if there’s no where to go and you are in position?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe because the balls keep landing right on our b*tts! I could care less if they're mad, but when they start hitting close, that's over the line. And yes, I've had some of THOSE conversations! Which pretty much ruin the whole freakin day!

 

BT

[Ri_Redneck]

3 hours ago, Pastit said:

Of course, priority is given like this usually: FIRST: anyone playing a club competition of any sort or size of group: THEN: our clubs set a rule; or not, on priority by size of group, e.g. “ Monday to Friday 4-balls must give way to 2 balls unless 4-balls are in a club competition “.

 

What we do here is get to know the status of who is behind and ask if they wish to assert any priority they may have. Hope it helps.  Hope you can see this photo from my old club’s rules:

 

 

Quite clear. I especially like #6! If that were applied/respected here in the states, we wouldn't have any slow play discussions.

 

BT

[puttingmatt]

Just by playing a simple 2 minutes faster per hole, would save 36 minutes for 18 holes. That should be  with in  everyone's ability. Everyone should strive for a three and a half hour round for 18 holes. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by puttingmatt

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, puttingmatt said:

Just by playing a simple 2 minutes faster per hole, would save 36 minutes for 18 holes. That should be  with in  everyone's ability. Everyone should strive for a three and a half hour round for 18 holes. 

When I was growing up and learning to play (a few decades ago), we were averaging 10 minutes per hole, walking.

[Newby]

The average walking pace is estimated at 3 mph.

For a single player, walking at a pretty brisk pace of 3.5 mph and allowing 30sec per stroke played to par on a par 72, 6200yd course would take just over 4 hours, with no allowance for green to tee walking.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Newby

[North Butte]

4 hours ago, Newby said:

The average walking pace is estimated at 3 mph.

For a single player, walking at a pretty brisk pace of 3.5 mph and allowing 30sec per stroke played to par on a par 72, 6200yd course would take just over 4 hours, with no allowance for green to tee walking.

You might want to check your arithmetic. 

 

6,200 yards is 18,600 feet which equals 3.52 miles. At 3.5mph that's just one minute over an hour of walking time.

 

30 seconds times 72 strokes is 36 minutes.

 

1:01 + 0:36 is 1:37, just over an hour and a half. An hour of walking and half an hour of hitting shots, basically. Nowhere near four hours.

 

You must have been allowing for the extra couple minutes per shot of alignment lines, waggles, backoffs, visualization, posing, preening, fidgeting and generally spasmodic "preshot routines" copped from the doofuses that play golf on TV.

[mshills]

If you are playing a 6,500 yard course you are walking more than 6,500 yards to play it…….

[Newby]

41 minutes ago, North Butte said:

You might want to check your arithmetic. 

 

6,200 yards is 18,600 feet which equals 3.52 miles. At 3.5mph that's just one minute over an hour of walking time.

 

30 seconds times 72 strokes is 36 minutes.

 

1:01 + 0:36 is 1:37, just over an hour and a half. An hour of walking and half an hour of hitting shots, basically. Nowhere near four hours.

 

You must have been allowing for the extra couple minutes per shot of alignment lines, waggles, backoffs, visualization, posing, preening, fidgeting and generally spasmodic "preshot routines" copped from the doofuses that play golf on TV.

I agree. Goodness knows where I got that figure from 😲🤬

I think I must have started thinking about playing in a group. But even then I can't get the same figures

 

 

[North Butte]

7 minutes ago, Newby said:

I agree. Goodness knows where I got that figure from 😲🤬

I think I must have started thinking about playing in a group. But even then I can't get the same figures

 

 

It works out pretty close if you do 30 seconds times 72 shots times 4 players. That's 2:44 of per-shot time plus the hour of walking and is nearly 4 hours. 

 

And I think a lot of the slow but not ultra-slow golf out there tends to be foursomes who like to play "honors" and who also do that thing where three guys refuse to do ANYTHING until it is "their turn". When they force things into being strictly sequential with zero overlap AND they each have elaborate preshot routines there's no way they're going to play in under 4 hours. 

 

That seems to be the normative pattern among foursomes I see when I'm out playing solo rounds. Absolutely no interest in even lasering a distance, getting out of the cart, much less pulling a club and starting their "routine" until the other guy has hit his shot, put his club in the bag and standing there watching.

 

I told my wife the other day it's like performance art. Each player in the group wants the other three guys' undivided attention to all their waggling and practice swings and club twirls. They probably don't think of it that way but it's the way an anthropologist would probably describe it if they watched a typical foursome without knowing anything about golf. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

 

And I think a lot of the slow but not ultra-slow golf out there tends to be foursomes who like to play "honors" and who also do that thing where three guys refuse to do ANYTHING until it is "their turn". When they force things into being strictly sequential with zero overlap AND they each have elaborate preshot routines there's no way they're going to play in under 4 hours. 

 

That seems to be the normative pattern among foursomes I see when I'm out playing solo rounds. Absolutely no interest in even lasering a distance, getting out of the cart, much less pulling a club and starting their "routine" until the other guy has hit his shot, put his club in the bag and standing there watching.

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't understand that. My group plays ready golf. 

 

If you're "away" but on the complete other side of the fairway, and you're dawdling over your shot, I'll hit my ball. If you're not dawdling, I'm at least doing my preshot stuff while you're hitting and my ball is probably in the air before yours stops rolling.

[Newby]

2 hours ago, North Butte said:

It works out pretty close if you do 30 seconds times 72 shots times 4 players. That's 2:44 of per-shot time plus the hour of walking and is nearly 4 hours. 

 

 

 

 

And of course most players (off the average cap of 18) will take 90 shots.

[Greenie]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Yeah, I don't understand that. My group plays ready golf. 

 

If you're "away" but on the complete other side of the fairway, and you're dawdling over your shot, I'll hit my ball. If you're not dawdling, I'm at least doing my preshot stuff while you're hitting and my ball is probably in the air before yours stops rolling.

 

I'm with you guys on ready golf. These POP threads always come down to this in my book. 

 

You have those playing in 4:00-4:30 or more that can't fathom a foursome that can play around 3:30 with out thinking that foursome is rushing around to get finished and off the course.

[Pastit]

5 hours ago, mshills said:

If you are playing a 6,500 yard course you are walking more than 6,500 yards to play it…….

A good and accurate player I played with used one of those “ pace-measuring devices “. I recall it came out c 10,000 for  c 6400-yd course. But I doubt if his paces were c 1 yard. 

[chippa13]

7 hours ago, North Butte said:

You might want to check your arithmetic. 

 

6,200 yards is 18,600 feet which equals 3.52 miles. At 3.5mph that's just one minute over an hour of walking time.

 

30 seconds times 72 strokes is 36 minutes.

 

1:01 + 0:36 is 1:37, just over an hour and a half. An hour of walking and half an hour of hitting shots, basically. Nowhere near four hours.

 

You must have been allowing for the extra couple minutes per shot of alignment lines, waggles, backoffs, visualization, posing, preening, fidgeting and generally spasmodic "preshot routines" copped from the doofuses that play golf on TV.

And yet when I check my phone it tells me that I've walked 6.5-7 miles after completing a round playing about 6,500 from the whites. I guess I don't magically teleport from the green to the next tee box. Weird.

[Newby]

3 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

And yet when I check my phone it tells me that I've walked 6.5-7 miles after completing a round playing about 6,500 from the whites. I guess I don't magically teleport from the green to the next tee box. Weird.

I did say "with no allowance for green to tee walking."

And you don't always walk straight down the middle of the fairway.

[klebs01]

20 hours ago, Newby said:

And of course most players (off the average cap of 18) will take 90 shots.

and most players aren’t taking 30 seconds. That’s actually a pretty long time to hit a shot.