Too slow but also...too fast!

[davep043]

I don't think the problem is playing too quickly, but a problem MAY exist when a faster group DEMANDS that others get out of their way.  To an extent, its a question of "community values."  For each course, for each part of the world, there's a range of generally accepted times for a round of golf.  Anyone who demands to play significantly faster, demands groups get out of their way, it a problem.  No question, if there are open holes in front, a slower group certainly SHOULD let the rabbits play though, but on a crowded course an impatient group can be an unwarranted distraction.

[Greenie]

3 hours ago, mshills said:

I am an efficient player, but not the fastest, and I definitely don’t play speed golf, partly because my body won’t allow it. Come to think of it, I simply won’t be rushed in doing much of anything in my life. Quick or efficient is great — but don’t rush me. 
 

The toughest thing to do is manage a playing partner who has a situational awareness problem — just has to finish that hilarious story on the tee box, walks to the tee box and forgets his tee, does not understand efficient use of the cart, never ready to play when it’s his time to play…

 

Other than the above, pace of play is pretty easy for me. If you are behind my group and there is an open hole in front of us, you will play through right away at the first opportunity. No problem!
 

If you are behind my group and there is a group in front of us, I’m not paying any attention to you because there is no way to play through. You can fold your arms, give the hairy eyeball, whatever you want to do, but I am not Moses and that is not the Red Sea in front of us. I’m paying attention to my play and enjoying the round and am not even going to look behind me because that is not where the next shot goes. 

 

Great post mshills....You are touching on my point. Becoming an EFFICIENT PLAYER. 

 

In my group one of the things that use to driver me crazy was what I called the ball washer stories. We would pull up to the tee box and I would grab my driver, wipe clean my ball on my wet towel, grab my tee from my pocket and tee off. I'd be back in the cart while the other three were still at the ball washer talking. The ball washer is a great place to lose time. We no longer hang out at the ball washer.

 

I love to watch a foursome in carts when player A,B,C,D, ride to player A's ball and B,C,D, stay there and watch player A take their shot. Off to player B's ball and A,C,D sit there and now watch player B hit. That drives me crazy.

 

I like to think I spend my time on taking the actual golf shot, reading the greens and putting. 

 

I can watch a group in front of me for a hole or two and already know if they are going to be slow or not by the things they are doing.

[Krt22]

The best way to deal with the fast group, is be the fast group. 

[Denny100]

1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

The best way to deal with the fast group, is be the fast group. 

 

I never in my life want to be the group that splatters it everywhere, has clubs caked in mud, never holes a 4 foot putt because theyre all given, shoots 98 anyway, and then boasts about finishing in 2 hours 50 mins in the bar. Ever.

 

Ever.

 

Ever.

[Krt22]

6 minutes ago, Denny100 said:

 

I never in my life want to be the group that splatters it everywhere, has clubs caked in mud, never holes a 4 foot putt because theyre all given, shoots 98 anyway, and then boasts about finishing in 2 hours 50 mins in the bar. Ever.

 

Ever.

 

Ever.

2hrs50min? Absolute snails pace. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

8 hours ago, Krt22 said:

The best way to deal with the fast group, is be the fast group. 

 

The best thing about being the fast group on a slow day is rolling up to all the par 3 tees while the group in front of you is still waiting to tee off, so you give them the added pressure of an audience for all their shots. 

 

"Oh, no, we don't want to play through! There's nowhere to go anyway. Just take your time, fellas. Wind's sure swirling today, doncha think? No, don't worry about it. I'm sure it won't affect your shot."

[Augster]

Redundant. 
 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:53 PM, Mike412 said:

If daylight is running out and we’re already playing at a very fast pace why should we be obligated to risk not finishing the round just because there are speed golfers behind us. Also if I’m having a really low round, and again playing very fast, idk why I should be obligated to screw up the pace, flow, and routine I have going to sit and wait for another group to play through.

 

Sure, on any average day I’ll let anyone faster play through regardless of how fast I’m going, but I’m just saying it shouldn’t be this obligation golfers feel they must do when they’re keeping a ~3 hour or faster pace.

If you’re playing at a 3 -3:30 pace aren’t you “ speed golfers” as well?

 

You’re probably then running into the 4:00 pace players, who are thinking, “who are these speed golfers behind us”. We’re playing at a good pace, why should we mess up our round just to let them through?  
 

Point is, pace is relative. Your fast might be someone else’s slow. It’s so simple, if people are waiting on you, and there are holes open ahead of you, let them through. And here’s the thing. If they’re catching you while you’re on a really good pace, when you wave them through, they’re going to go flying past. The majority of players who play fast know that they are fast and are going to try to inconvenience you as little as possible. 
 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

9 hours ago, Denny100 said:

 

I never in my life want to be the group that splatters it everywhere, has clubs caked in mud, never holes a 4 foot putt because theyre all given, shoots 98 anyway, and then boasts about finishing in 2 hours 50 mins in the bar. Ever.

 

Ever.

 

Ever.

You know, not every sub 3:00 group does all those things.  I’ve seen plenty of those exact traits exhibited in the five hour groups as well. 

[Mike412]

32 minutes ago, deadsolid...shank said:

If you’re playing at a 3 -3:30 pace aren’t you “ speed golfers” as well?

 

You’re probably then running into the 4:00 pace players, who are thinking, “who are these speed golfers behind us”. We’re playing at a good pace, why should we mess up our round just to let them through?  
 

Point is, pace is relative. Your fast might be someone else’s slow. It’s so simple, if people are waiting on you, and there are holes open ahead of you, let them through. And here’s the thing. If they’re catching you while you’re on a really good pace, when you wave them through, they’re going to go flying past. The majority of players who play fast know that they are fast and are going to try to inconvenience you as little as possible. 
 

 

Obviously that pace is if there isn’t a slower group I front. If I do catch someone I always give them plenty of room and make sure they’re way outside my range when I hit. They probably wouldn’t even get the idea they’re slowing me down. As long as they’re playing ready golf and not wasting a lot of time I see it as they paid their money just like me so I have no right to push them if they’re playing at the pace stated by the course (which is usually on the slow side).

[deadsolid...shank]

6 minutes ago, Mike412 said:

Obviously that pace is if there isn’t a slower group I front. If I do catch someone I always give them plenty of room and make sure they’re way outside my range when I hit. They probably wouldn’t even get the idea they’re slowing me down. As long as they’re playing ready golf and not wasting a lot of time I see it as they paid their money just like me so I have no right to push them if they’re playing at the pace stated by the course (which is usually on the slow side).

we always try to be very courteous as well. I won’t pull up to a tee box while guys are hitting or ever hit into a group or anything like that. We’re fast, but I like to think not obnoxious about it. 
 

But I do think a lot of people fall back on that PoP as a reason to not let others through. It doesn’t matter what pace a group is on, it still ALWAYS boils down to two factors:  is the group behind waiting, and is there adequate space in front for them to play through?  If those two answers are yes, it’s simple. Send them through. 
 

And although it doesn’t happen very often, I detest having someone waiting on me(us). If, for whatever reason, we’re slow(er) on a particular day, I’m letting people through at the first reasonable opportunity. 
 

Although since moving to Colorado it really isn’t an issue any more. There is no playing fast where I am.  The course is always packed (35,000 + rounds last year)  and our group has three or four guys who are slooooooow!

 

We do a lot more letting through than playing through anymore!

 

[Esox]

There is no such thing as playing too fast. People that think 4.5 hours and more is acceptable are the problem. In the 80's our standard 18 hole time at the courses I frequented was 3:30-3:45. These days 4:15 is flying. Damn covid golfers...........

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, Esox said:

There is no such thing as playing too fast. People that think 4.5 hours and more is acceptable are the problem. In the 80's our standard 18 hole time at the courses I frequented was 3:30-3:45. These days 4:15 is flying. Damn covid golfers...........

 

And the courses were equally full..?

 

At least in my country it is very true that in the 80's people were playing faster on the average but also it is true that there were fewer players on courses which reduces queue formation enormously. Also balls did not fly as far meaning they were not searched for similar times as today.

 

But you have a point with "covid golfers" but in a larger scope than you write. The average skill level as well as understanging how a group needs to move on the course was substantially higher. Today there are lots of "recreational golfers" who do not take golf so seriously and that shows on the course. Also selfisness has grown dramatically in the society and that can easily be seen on a golf course ("I have paid for my round and I do not have to let anyone play through! Nor I have to fix my divot holes or pitch-marks!").

 

There is neither overall nor general solution to this dilemma. If you must play fast start early in the morning. Otherwise concentrate on enjoying the company and the possibility to play golf. Not everyone has that possibility.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Mr. Bean

[deadsolid...shank]

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

And the courses were equally full..?

 

At least in my country it is very true that in the 80's people were playing faster on the average but also it is true that there were fewer players on courses which reduces queue formation enormously. Also balls did not fly as far meaning they were not searched for similar times as today.

 

But you have a point with "covid golfers" but in a larger scope than you write. The average skill level as well as understanging how a group needs to move on the course was substantially higher. Today there are lots of "recreational golfers" who do not take golf so seriously and that shows on the course. Also selfisness has grown dramatically in the society and that can easily be seen on a golf course ("I have paid for my round and I do not have to let anyone play through! Nor I have to fix my divot holes or pitch-marks!").

 

There is neither overall nor general solution to this dilemma. If you must play fast start early in the morning. Otherwise concentrate on enjoying the company and the possibility to play golf. Not everyone has that possibility.

All true. I think a big majority of the “covid” players have played very little in their past. And likely never been taught the etiquette. Unfortunately, at our muni course, good etiquette means they get half of their beer cans in the trash cans. 

[Mr. Bean]

25 minutes ago, deadsolid...shank said:

All true. I think a big majority of the “covid” players have played very little in their past. And likely never been taught the etiquette. Unfortunately, at our muni course, good etiquette means they get half of their beer cans in the trash cans. 

Apparently you need to ask them "can you can your can in the can?"

[Argonne69]

17 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Apparently you need to ask them "can you can your can in the can?"

 

It's shocking at times how many beer cans and bottles I see in the bushes and native areas around the course. Is it that difficult to put trash in a trash can, or at least keep it in a cart? 

 

Cans I can somewhat see because a strong win can fling an empty one, but beer bottles? Only way a beer bottle gets out of the cart is if the player tosses it in the woods. Grrrr.

 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:08 AM, Denny100 said:

 

I never in my life want to be the group that splatters it everywhere, has clubs caked in mud, never holes a 4 foot putt because theyre all given, shoots 98 anyway, and then boasts about finishing in 2 hours 50 mins in the bar. Ever.

 

Ever.

 

Ever.

That’s cause you are a “scratch” golfer. If a group or a person shoots a 98. And is proud he/she/or they finished in under 3 hours. I’m buying the group or the person beers all the way around. 

[GolfTurkey]

Can everyone who is struggling with players who are too fast please please send them my way?!!

 

In fairness to my home course, they have done a huge amount of good work over the past few years making the club financially secure, improving the course etc but the one issue they have totally dropped the ball on is slow play.

 

We always used to have marshals policing slow play, but for some reason a couple of years ago they got canned with a predictable effect on speed of play.

[Hot Rod 71]

There are definitely groups on the course with unrealistic expectations at times. When the course is busy and there is no where to go, just relax and enjoy the day. There is no need to continue to push a group that is behind a full course. 
 

I see this scenario a lot: we (twosome) are playing in the afternoon and are 3-4 holes in with 2-3 hours of daylight left. The course is fairly full in front of us with no open holes as far was we can see. There was no one behind us for the first few holes. The parking lot is full, which many fail to observe as a sign that the course is busy. 

 

We look back while on the 3rd or 4th green and see a single or twosome in the fairway doing the annoying “hands on the hips pose” and/or taking multiple aggressive practice swings because they are trying to get in 18 holes in 2-3 hours and expect the seas to part just for them. It’s their way of saying “we are the most important people on the course and you are in our way”.
 

To me it’s pure arrogance to think everyone should move out of your way so YOU can play 18 holes in 3 hours on a full course. 

[mshills]

1 hour ago, Hot Rod 71 said:

There are definitely groups on the course with unrealistic expectations at times. When the course is busy and there is no where to go, just relax and enjoy the day. There is no need to continue to push a group that is behind a full course. 
 

I see this scenario a lot: we (twosome) are playing in the afternoon and are 3-4 holes in with 2-3 hours of daylight left. The course is fairly full in front of us with no open holes as far was we can see. There was no one behind us for the first few holes. The parking lot is full, which many fail to observe as a sign that the course is busy. 

 

We look back while on the 3rd or 4th green and see a single or twosome in the fairway doing the annoying “hands on the hips pose” and/or taking multiple aggressive practice swings because they are trying to get in 18 holes in 2-3 hours and expect the seas to part just for them. It’s their way of saying “we are the most important people on the course and you are in our way”.
 

To me it’s pure arrogance to think everyone should move out of your way so YOU can play 18 holes in 3 hours on a full course. 

Exactly. In this scenario I just stop looking back. What is behind me is not my concern. As long as we are keeping pace with the group in front of us, my focus is forward to the next shot, and on enjoying myself, not on the group behind us. 

[Warrior42111]

I think I'm with the majority here, if there's room let them play through. If not just sit back and relax. Have I played a 3-3.5 hr round on an empty course, sure, key word empty.

 

Been playing 20 years, seen a lot of good progress in the game, and the only thing that has gotten worse is attitudes. I swear at least once a month a group sees it stacked up, and still is firing at the greens when myself and group are like 10 yards off the green walking to the carts. Per the PGA GIR from 150-175 is 63%. 

[bladehunter]

Too fast is soo rare it’s not worth debating. Slow is much more common.  
 

last weekend we had a group in our dogfight that asked to go out first.  Had an engagement to get to after. So it was done. A riding 4 some.  They put my group behind them. A walking 4 some. This was 8 am tee times.   We pushed them walking the entire 18 holes. Behind me was a walking group of seniors. Who use remote control carts for their bags. They waited on us each shot. And so on.  6 groups waited.  A consensus was reached after that basically said “ now we know why they’ve always been last group out”.    Only thing I’ll say in their defense was , it was cartpath only.  So they had to walk back and forth to the path.  

[mshills]

Huge error sending a riding foursome in front of an efficient walking foursome at the top of the tee sheet when it’s cart path only!

 

It is hard, and could be impossible, for that riding foursome to speed up on a CPO day. 

[bladehunter]

12 hours ago, mshills said:

Huge error sending a riding foursome in front of an efficient walking foursome at the top of the tee sheet when it’s cart path only!

 

It is hard, and could be impossible, for that riding foursome to speed up on a CPO day. 

I agree. Wasn’t my choice.  I’d bet alot that they finish same time if they’d sent them out 3rd.  

[mshills]

CPO is the absolute worst. I won’t play if my only choice is CPO. 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

8 minutes ago, mshills said:

CPO is the absolute worst. I won’t play if my only choice is CPO. 

I so agree with you on this.

[Bye]

We had a situation at the weekend where we could not quite get away from the group behind, but they were not close enough to let them through. There were a few occasions where they teed off whilst we were hitting our approach shots, one of them got close to us on a few occasions. 

 

The other thing that seems to happen is, people going off before there designated tee time. As soon as it's clear they go and things get bunched up really quickly. 

[MountainKing]

As a guy who is probably in that faster group (all low single digits/+ handicaps that play fairly quick) what are we supposed to do?  I get on a busy course we're not going anywhere, but are we supposed to just hang out in the fairway for an extra minute or two and screw around on the green to eat up some time?  When it's clear to play, we play, and sometimes on busy days this means we're probably hitting the next tee box when the group in front of us is still on it.  

[MountainKing]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:08 PM, Denny100 said:

 

I never in my life want to be the group that splatters it everywhere, has clubs caked in mud, never holes a 4 foot putt because theyre all given, shoots 98 anyway, and then boasts about finishing in 2 hours 50 mins in the bar. Ever.

 

Ever.

 

Ever.

 

I'd rather play with tha dude all day, if he's shooting 98 and playing in under 3 hours then he's probably very self aware of himself, thinking about those around him and more than likely solid company.  

[ChipNRun]

On 2/12/2023 at 3:48 PM, Denny100 said:

Some people seem absolutely incapable of reading the situation, pacing themselves, and not being absolute jerks to others

 

If a hole is open in front (except in a tournament), let tailing group play through.

 

If course is just overall backed up, then remind speedburners on your tail that there's no place to go.

 

Part of the problem has to do with oddball habits of players in one's foursome. In our informal senior group, the leaders knew not to pair me with:

• Mr. Lost Wedge who couldn't keep track of his clubs, having to go back to prior green all the time.
• The Lawyer (you didn't place a marking tee in ground before you took a drop from the cart path) and the Anarchist (just drop a d&*% ball somewhere and hit it!)

In either of these situations, I somehow ended up getting blamed for the slow play.