Golf Scramble Debate

[choppstixxx]

So I'm sure everyone on here has played in some charity golf tournament that has a best ball format etc. However the other day I was in one I've played in for the past 3 years and an odd thing happened. Our team ends up with the lowest score at the end (-14) and we were one shot ahead of the 2nd place team (-13). The caveat is that on one hole (a par 5) they did a time challenge (no cost and everyone at the tourney participated) where if you finished in the top 3 shortest times you got an extra stroke (-1) off your score for that hole. So wouldn't ya know, 2nd place team finished top 3 in that and we did not (I thought our time was pretty good at 5 mins). So here we are now tied at -14, then they do a tie breaker based on the hardest hole and surprise surprise they beat us with an eagle vs. our birdie. I don't like to assume people cheat, but we were directly behind this group the whole day and I doubt that they made eagle on that hole (but who knows).
So my question to all of you is, how would you feel if you were in my team's shoes?

Edited June 27, 2023 by choppstixxx

[LimaSierra]

Yeah i hear you. I've done a very scrambles and i just go have fun cause i know some will cheat. I've seen way too many scores that are unbelievable to get worked up about it

 

I agree with you its suspicious they were right behind you and ended up winning but I will say 13 under doesn't sound TOO crazy to believe if they had 4 good golfers, or 4 golfers with a good combo of strengths and weaknesses.

 

I wouldn't be sure they were cheating. What makes you think they didn't eagle that par 5?

Edited June 28, 2023 by LimaSierra

[jordan2240]

Well, they had no way of knowing they'd be in a tie breaker at the end or that that hole's score would decide it, so it was either some very fortuitous cheating or they just got lucky.  I'd assume the latter unless perhaps all knew beforehand which hole would be used in the tie-break - then I might be a bit more suspicious.

[choppstixxx]

11 hours ago, LimaSierra said:

I wouldn't be sure they were cheating. What makes you think they didn't eagle that par 5?

Because we witnessed every shot they took on the hole (besides the putt). We outdrove them on the hole (by a decent margin +30 yds) and almost had a chance for eagle with a chip in. Where we saw them get on the hole in 3.

What I also forgot to mention was that the scorecards/scoring was all digital via the carts, so everyone knew where every group stood all day. The whole back 9 we were up on them by 1 or 2 strokes. Again I am more upset that the organizers chose to say they won when without the gimmick hole we won outright.

[golfinbrad]

I assume this was a charity event, so that is what is important  There are always groups that need to cheat to stroke their egos.  It doesn't make it right, but it happens.  My favorite is the guy who wins long drive and struts around with new sleeve of balls.  I never heard of the groups finishing fastest get another stroke taken off.  I don't like that concept at all.  You are at the mercy of being behind super slow groups or finishing on a hole furthest away from the pro shop.  Anyway, disappointing in what happen, but hopefully it was a great day with some friends.   In the end that is what it is about.  Now if you were stuck playing with work people, then it was an all around bad day.

[LimaSierra]

2 hours ago, choppstixxx said:

Because we witnessed every shot they took on the hole (besides the putt). We outdrove them on the hole (by a decent margin +30 yds) and almost had a chance for eagle with a chip in. Where we saw them get on the hole in 3.

What I also forgot to mention was that the scorecards/scoring was all digital via the carts, so everyone knew where every group stood all day. The whole back 9 we were up on them by 1 or 2 strokes. Again I am more upset that the organizers chose to say they won when without the gimmick hole we won outright.

Well knowing the scoring was electronic and they knew where everyone else stood I’m a lot more suspicious. I agree they likely cheated then. 
 

I also agree it’s silly to have speed hole. Just go by who shot the lowest

[choppstixxx]

1 minute ago, LimaSierra said:

Well knowing the scoring was electronic and they knew where everyone else stood I’m a lot more suspicious. I agree they likely cheated then. 
 

I also agree it’s silly to have speed hole. Just go by who shot the lowest

Not to mention this group has won every year I've played in it (3 yrs), meh like others have said it was for a good cause (Diabetes) and the guys I play with are great friends of mine.

I holed out a eagle putt from 30 yds off the green that got us going again on the back 9. Was a lot of fun to grind out the score we did not even playing the best.

[RSinSG]

If you decide to play in a scramble with any intention other than having fun and raising money for the charity you will always be disappointed.

[kmay__]

1 hour ago, choppstixxx said:

Not to mention this group has won every year I've played in it (3 yrs), meh like others have said it was for a good cause (Diabetes) and the guys I play with are great friends of mine.

I holed out a eagle putt from 30 yds off the green that got us going again on the back 9. Was a lot of fun to grind out the score we did not even playing the best.

Holy sh*t you made a putt from 90 feet off the green, must have been a hell of a swing. 

 

They came in the clubhouse a stroke behind your group, and the tourney organizers gave them 2 free shots which made them win. I'd say your issue is with the organizers at that point. 

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, RSinSG said:

If you decide to play in a scramble with any intention other than having fun and raising money for the charity you will always be disappointed.

 

Yeah i agree with this

 

Not everyone cheats in scrambles, probably 90% of people don't....But there definitely is shenanigans that go on sometimes. 

[choppstixxx]

1 hour ago, kmay__ said:

Holy sh*t you made a putt from 90 feet off the green, must have been a hell of a swing. 

 

They came in the clubhouse a stroke behind your group, and the tourney organizers gave them 2 free shots which made them win. I'd say your issue is with the organizers at that point. 

Yessir, pin was pretty much right in front of the green, just had to get the ball thru all the fairway and let it release. Rolled in like a putt on the green. My buddies always call me Texas Wedge Joe bc I tend to want to putt those short chips most of the time.

 

I 100% agree that my issue is def. with the organizers, they even said before they announced the winners that there will be some controversy with how they did it. So with that being said, why not just call it a tie even with the "free stroke".

Again, was a great day to play. Had a few pops, a few laughs, and wasn't working. All in all, a good day.

Edited June 28, 2023 by choppstixxx

[tatertot]

So l

1 hour ago, choppstixxx said:

Yessir, pin was pretty much right in front of the green, just had to get the ball thru all the fairway and let it release. Rolled in like a putt on the green. My buddies always call me Texas Wedge Joe bc I tend to want to putt those short chips most of the time.

 

I 100% agree that my issue is def. with the organizers, they even said before they announced the winners that there will be some controversy with how they did it. So with that being said, why not just call it a tie even with the "free stroke".

Again, was a great day to play. Had a few pops, a few laughs, and wasn't working. All in all, a good day.

So ... what if another team called you cheaters because they saw you 90 feet away from the pin and you recorded a birdie?

[choppstixxx]

1 minute ago, tatertot said:

So l

So ... what if another team called you cheaters because they saw you 90 feet away from the pin and you recorded a birdie?

The thing was not only did all three of my team members witness it, a lady that was doing a par 3 contest on the next hole saw it as well as the group ahead since they were standing on the tee box waiting.

 

Again on the par 5 we eagled it was gettable even if you didn't have some crazy shot, the par 5 they "eagled" was the hardest hole on the course and we saw every shot besides the putt as it happened. Like others said, I think I'm more angry at the organizers with how they handled the scoring. Because no matter what people cheat at scrambles.

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:24 AM, choppstixxx said:

So I'm sure everyone on here has played in some charity golf tournament that has a best ball format etc. However the other day I was in one I've played in for the past 3 years and an odd thing happened. Our team ends up with the lowest score at the end (-14) and we were one shot ahead of the 2nd place team (-13). The caveat is that on one hole (a par 5) they did a time challenge (no cost and everyone at the tourney participated) where if you finished in the top 3 shortest times you got an extra stroke (-1) off your score for that hole. So wouldn't ya know, 2nd place team finished top 3 in that and we did not (I thought our time was pretty good at 5 mins). So here we are now tied at -14, then they do a tie breaker based on the hardest hole and surprise surprise they beat us with an eagle vs. our birdie. I don't like to assume people cheat, but we were directly behind this group the whole day and I doubt that they made eagle on that hole (but who knows).
So my question to all of you is, how would you feel if you were in my team's shoes?

Been there, done that....no time bonus, but we followed a group in a scramble, who happened to win, and we know as behind them all day the 2 eagles they recorded were pencil whipping...as most scrambles are...as long as for charity (only scrambles I'll play in anymore) hope you had fun, can't expect to win unless play by same rules, which I won't do.

 

Another funny one, got last minute invite to fill in as the fourth in a scramble....these guys were writing down scores before we played the hole.....when our 'scorekeeper' added it up, shot 49.....I skipped the dinner and awards festivities as no one in right mind wouldn't know that was BS

[jordan2240]

I honestly cannot understand how people cheat and are ok with it.  I can't even feel good about fluffing my ball in a casual round (so I never do it).  Boggles my mind how often guys finagle strokes then proudly announce their score.

[smashdn]

For some type of charity scramble with, I am assuming, only door prize type stuff on the line, I wouldn't care.  

 

There are "more serious" scrambles that are blind draw, handicapped, etc. with higher buy-ins and high-dollar prizes where I would not tolerate it.  That said, I do not know what recourse you really have as most scrambles I have been a part of there is no other group playing alongside to ensure integrity.

 

I played in handicapped, blind draw scramble with a sizable calcutta.  That type of thing needs to be policed closely in my opinion.

[Pepperturbo]

As a low-single digit, I captained a team or was a team member in many Charity Scrambles.  We always did well.  That format is RIPE with hacks and cheaters, that's just the way it is.  Going into that type event with expectations is a recipe for frustration. 

 

I always reminded myself I was participating for the Charity and fun, NOT so much quality of golf or winning.  Move-on.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[choppstixxx]

1 hour ago, jordan2240 said:

I honestly cannot understand how people cheat and are ok with it.  I can't even feel good about fluffing my ball in a casual round (so I never do it).  Boggles my mind how often guys finagle strokes then proudly announce their score.

A buddy of mine has always said that how a person carry's themselves when golfing says a lot about their character and values. I have played with enough people where this is spot on.

[st1800e]

TLDR,  scramble?  Thats not golf.  Hope you're over it now.   

[StudentGolfer4]

Bummer it didn’t work out for you guys but I don’t see an issue with the time challenge incentive. Everyone had the same opportunity and was notified ahead of time. I would actually like to try it sometime.  
 

Allow A player to hit the drive, D player stays in the cart that A is driving, while B and C wait in the landing zone. B and C hit approach shots while A and D drive to the green/chipping area as fast as possible. Everyone is there to help drain the put? I’m down to try it. 

[choppstixxx]

8 hours ago, st1800e said:

TLDR,  scramble?  Thats not golf.  Hope you're over it now.   

While I agree it's not the same as compared to a personal round, to me it's golfing where you have "fun" stress.

Def. have moved on, back to grinding with my own game.

 

8 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Bummer it didn’t work out for you guys but I don’t see an issue with the time challenge incentive. Everyone had the same opportunity and was notified ahead of time. I would actually like to try it sometime.  
 

Allow A player to hit the drive, D player stays in the cart that A is driving, while B and C wait in the landing zone. B and C hit approach shots while A and D drive to the green/chipping area as fast as possible. Everyone is there to help drain the put? I’m down to try it. 

I was thinking similarly, everyone had a equal chance however I think before you start you should know what the fastest time was (we didn't). If we knew that 2mins was the fastest time (which it was), I woulda said F trying to hustle and just play the hole normally. We actually played it in 5 mins and had 2 of our eagle putts stop 6-12 inches from the hole. Would we have gotten closer with our second shot? Maybe or even possibly gotten on the green in 2. All "what ifs" hah

[2bGood]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:24 AM, choppstixxx said:

So I'm sure everyone on here has played in some charity golf tournament that has a best ball format etc. However the other day I was in one I've played in for the past 3 years and an odd thing happened. Our team ends up with the lowest score at the end (-14) and we were one shot ahead of the 2nd place team (-13). The caveat is that on one hole (a par 5) they did a time challenge (no cost and everyone at the tourney participated) where if you finished in the top 3 shortest times you got an extra stroke (-1) off your score for that hole. So wouldn't ya know, 2nd place team finished top 3 in that and we did not (I thought our time was pretty good at 5 mins). So here we are now tied at -14, then they do a tie breaker based on the hardest hole and surprise surprise they beat us with an eagle vs. our birdie. I don't like to assume people cheat, but we were directly behind this group the whole day and I doubt that they made eagle on that hole (but who knows).
So my question to all of you is, how would you feel if you were in my team's shoes?

You are taking it too seriously. Hit and giggle. It is not a badge of honour to win these things.

 

Most of the ones I play in, tend not to have good golfers in the field. If I have a team of single digits with me we would normally crush the field, so we ignore the rules, and play our own ball with some betting game. (we have no problem keeping up to  the 5 or 6 hour round even though we are not playing. a scramble in our group😁). Then we write down even par and hand in a card. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by 2bGood

[Greenie]

I used to play in a lot of scrambles. If you go in thinking you might win something on score, longest drive, or closest to the pin you will be disappointed more times than not. My group never bought any of the gimmicks, mulligans, etc. We always played it straight because we wanted to see what we could shoot legit playing a scramble.That was our fun.

 

That last one I played in the group in front of us was terrible and slow. I made the comment that they haven't hit a green in regulation all day. Another guy in my group said they might win the worst round of the day. They won with a 52.

 

In one scramble I had closest to the pin at 2 inches. We were the first group to play the hole but I thought 2 inches would stand up. Someone in the last group to play the hole beat me out at 1 inch.

 

Scrambles I look to play in: 

Of course a good charity tops everything.

Good food. I love to eat. Free beer works for me too.

Bragging rights to the winners. A lot of door prizes. At least someone can't cheat you out of a door prize. I really like the ones that are going to bragging rights and putting the money for winning into door prizes. 

Prize holes that are monitored by people. I actually won a Sun Mountain Four5 bag for closest to the pin at one. 18 inches. 2 inches was a loser at another one for me with no one watching the hole.

 

[choppstixxx]

2 hours ago, Greenie said:

I used to play in a lot of scrambles. If you go in thinking you might win something on score, longest drive, or closest to the pin you will be disappointed more times than not. My group never bought any of the gimmicks, mulligans, etc. We always played it straight because we wanted to see what we could shoot legit playing a scramble.That was our fun.

I don't tend to play in a lot of scrambles, just have 1-2 that I do every year bc friends either are the main sponsor and/or have a bunch of friends that play in it.

I always assume people will cheat, again my main issue is more so with the organizers and how they handled who actually won. When you look at the scoreboard at the end of the tourney and see your group leading by a stroke, 99% of the time you don't lose. However as I learned this time, theres always that 1% chance.

[Greenie]

42 minutes ago, choppstixxx said:

I don't tend to play in a lot of scrambles, just have 1-2 that I do every year bc friends either are the main sponsor and/or have a bunch of friends that play in it.

I always assume people will cheat, again my main issue is more so with the organizers and how they handled who actually won. When you look at the scoreboard at the end of the tourney and see your group leading by a stroke, 99% of the time you don't lose. However as I learned this time, theres always that 1% chance.

 

I wasn't there so I can only go by what you have brought up. If it was known before the start that there was a speed hole and it was worth -1 stroke and the hole was given for any tie breakers then I wouldn't have an issue with the organizers. You posted the lowest on course score and after the gimmick hole another team tied you. It went to the tie breaker hole and the other team beat you on that. The other team may have cheated on the gimmick hole and /or the tie breaker hole but that doesn't have anything to do with the organizers.

 

My group won a scramble once by tying low score and winning the tie breaker hole. We pay attention to the posted tie breaker hole. Another time we felt cheated by the organizers. We tied for low score and the other team was the winner. I asked how that was determined and the person said we just picked a random hole. I said you should tell everyone which hole is the tie breaker hole. They claimed they don't because someone will cheat on the hole. It was funny it happened to be the only hole we bogeyed and the winners were friends of the organizers. 

 

Well like I said play for fun and don't expect to win anything and all will go well.

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, Greenie said:

 

My group won a scramble once by tying low score and winning the tie breaker hole. We pay attention to the posted tie breaker hole. Another time we felt cheated by the organizers. We tied for low score and the other team was the winner. I asked how that was determined and the person said we just picked a random hole. I said you should tell everyone which hole is the tie breaker hole. They claimed they don't because someone will cheat on the hole. It was funny it happened to be the only hole we bogeyed and the winners were friends of the organizers. 

Even more crushing was this was the one scramble where the winners get a lifetime exemption to the Masters. 😉

 

I organise these events sometimes and we make sure the door prizes are bigger than the winners prizes as only a few very misguided teams take trying to win seriously. 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by 2bGood

[j.b.newton]

2b - I'm seeing that more and more in the ones I do as a part of work.  The door prizes have become significantly better than the "golf" prizes (both score and long drive/closest to pin).  It seems to take some of the drama out of the score issues because a win gets you a $15 gift card and a pack of Bridgestone e12's vs a $500 gift card or trip.

[CactusGolf]

I played in two scrambles over the last two week and I think it really depends on how the event was run and how much experience the winners have.  Typically play with the same 4-some and we only play in two a year- one for a food bank and another for the Knights of Columbus.  Won't play in any handicapped events and only go in with the mindset to have a good time.

 

We shot 59 in one (winners score was 49) and 55 in the other (we won).  

 

First scramble was gimmicky and I don't see how a 49 was on the board.  Endless mulligans, "strings", yada, yada.  Pace of play was a little long- teed off at 2 and finished at 7.

 

Second one was three eagles (two par 5s had a PW in for the 2nd shot, 1 par 4 that was a chip-in on a green that we drove (playing 280)) with no bogeys.  The second one was ran FAR better.  $90 for a round, lunch, waters, two Gatorades, a raffle ticket, and two included mulligans per player.  No additional mulligans could be purchased.  Pace of play was excellent at just under 4 hours at a far more difficult course.

 

When I helped run a larger event, the cheating was rampant.  Essentially writing down the scores before the event even gets started. We played with the idea of a foursome split into two man best ball teams, player with a random other two partner team, no mulligans, and a combined score.  Too much effort for what the end game was going to be.  

 

While not a solution to the cheating in scrambles, having more/better raffle prizes than winners prizes helped and also raised more money.  We dropped the price of raffle tickets compared to "mulligan" purchases.

Edited June 29, 2023 by CactusGolf

[2bGood]

23 minutes ago, j.b.newton said:

2b - I'm seeing that more and more in the ones I do as a part of work.  The door prizes have become significantly better than the "golf" prizes (both score and long drive/closest to pin).  It seems to take some of the drama out of the score issues because a win gets you a $15 gift card and a pack of Bridgestone e12's vs a $500 gift card or trip.

Yes, I think the competitive part of these things are laughable. When you start mixing mulligans, strings, speed holes, air cannons etc the scores are going to get silly.... and that is the point, they are supposed to be silly and fun. For a long time we make the winning prize, no big deal. Like a bottle of wine for each guy. 

[Greenie]

6 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Even more crushing was this was the one scramble where the winners get a lifetime exemption to the Masters. 😉

 

I organise these events sometimes and we make sure the door prizes are bigger than the winners prizes as only a few very misguided teams take trying to win seriously. 

 

 

 

Those are the ones I am more willing to play in. Bragging rights for the winners and better door prizes everyone has a shot at winning.