Buddy wants to take up golf because he works at a white-shoe law firm; good or bad idea?

[RoyalMustang]

I have a good friend who knows nothing about, and has very little interest in, golf. The leadership at his firm are all serious golfers and low single digit caps. He wants to take up the sport so that he can participate in more social work activities. He has several other hobbies though and I don't see him devoting more than a couple of hours each week to the sport. 

 

I have seen him try to hit a ball and it's pretty bad; I don't think he has ever done a ball sport before. It's the kind of swing that makes you think he couldn't break 110 even if he played every day for a year.

 

Honestly, I think him going down this road might be a bad idea. He could seriously embarrass himself out there. These guys aren't casual golfers, and it could be really awkward to be out there shooting 115 when everyone else is in the 70's. Not to mention that 2 hours a week of practice when taking up the sport in his 30s and lacking athletic ability is probably not going to get it done. 

 

I know if it were me, I would follow Clint Eastwood's advice and be a man who knows his limitations, or devote 15 hours/week to actually getting good. Anyone else been in this situation work-wise? Personally, I enjoy hanging out with my friends but not on the golf course if they never golf and are shooting 120. I get stressed about holding up groups behind us and whatnot; I'd rather just meet up for coffee or beer. 

 

 

[blades_are_life]

Is the lacking athletic ability a general thing or are you insinuating he is out of shape physically?

[MelloYello]

Yeah, it doesn't sound like he's the golf type. 

 

My brother-in-law is like that. Very educated. Very successful workaholic type at a big company. Doing the "right things" by any measure and a great guy but just not someone who's all that cut out for starting golf at the age of 30. 

 

If he doesn't have the built-in coordination to hit a ball, it's just hard. I've never seen someone start from "scratch" like that (as an adult) and succeed. Golf is more a game for the folks who either started young or spent their youth doing other sports. 

 

I'd recommend he take it very seriously and really treat it as a project if he does it. Get with a coach and get on a regular practice regimen hitting balls engraining that ability to make solid contact. It's not unfathomable he could learn to do it even without the instincts but IDK, it might be too tough a task. I just don't know. 

 

 

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Edited July 18, 2023 by MelloYello

[RoyalMustang]

16 minutes ago, blades_are_life said:

Is the lacking athletic ability a general thing or are you insinuating he is out of shape physically?

 

he's fit-just no hand eye coordination or kinestetic awareness. F45 guy. 

 

Normally I'm all about helping friends if they want it; I've never seen such an uncoordinated swing though. I declined to offer input when asked: I wouldn't know where to start!

[MelloYello]

Yeah, I know the type. 

 

Maybe tell him to get a Pw and just start grinding on the range for awhile developing an ability to hit down on the ball. Learn how to hit the ball and make contact--maybe work with him a little--but don't go beyond that Pw.

[NoTalentLefty]

Tell him get lessons. Golf in many careers can be a great tool for client relationships. Never dissuade anyone from the game.

[aramirez24]

Be honest with him and let him know what a realistic timeline is for being able to go play with his coworkers and not embarrass himself. There are also a lot of things you don't know about being on a golf course that you can't learn without going out. Etiquette, pace of play, etc. If his coworkers are good players that kind of stuff matters to them more than him being able to break 80. My favorite part about golf is trying to get better and I enjoy playing with other people with that same mindset, unless it's a scramble for work it's a long path to get there for your buddy.  

[RoyalMustang]

1 minute ago, MelloYello said:

Yeah, it doesn't sound like he's the golf type. 

 

My brother-in-law is like that. Very educated. Very successful workaholic type at a big company. Doing the "right things" by any measure and a great guy but just not someone who's all that cut out for starting golf at the age of 30. 

 

If he doesn't have the built-in coordination to hit a ball, it's just hard. I've never seen someone start from "scratch" like that (as an adult) and succeed. Golf is more a game for the folks who either started young or spent their youth doing other sports. 

 

I'd recommend he take it very seriously and really treat it as a project if he does it. Get with a coach and get on a regular practice regimen hitting balls engraining that ability to make solid contact. It's not unfathomable he could learn to do it even without the instincts but IDK, it might be too tough a task. I just don't know. 

 

 

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Good points: I told him to devote a chunk of time on weekends (6-8 hours) and 2-3 evenings a week if he wants to improve. He didn't believe that's what is needed. 

 

I think he misses the point that several of the guys in his firm played in college: they put in their 25 hour weeks on the golf course for years and have hit that magical 10,000 hour mark by now. 

 

What he is doing would be like me trying to learn violin well enough to play in a local orchestra. I can't even read music! 

[aramirez24]

That being said I agree with the posters above. He will never know unless he gives it a shot. Hitting the range together wouldn't hurt.

[RoyalMustang]

2 minutes ago, NoTalentLefty said:

Tell him get lessons. Golf in many careers can be a great tool for client relationships. Never dissuade anyone from the game.

 

I gave him the name of my instructor back in May: he hasn't reached out yet. If that were me, I would probably have gotten 3-4 lessons by now! Income's not the issue. 

[MtlJeff]

A lot of it depends on the leadership too. Are they good dudes who would play with a guy shooting 95? Or would that be "beneath them". 

 

Most people if they commit can be at least passable golfers. And your friend is right it's probably a good way to bond if the firm is full of golfers (not every company is anymore, some companies make a point of hating golf---sounds like not this one tho)

 

In my regular group i'm the only one who breaks 85 typically. Doesn't bother me at all

[dfeldss]

I think if it's purely for business reasons and he has no interest in it otherwise, it's doomed to be a failed experiment. You've got to really love it to start from scratch like it sounds like he is.

 

Starting so late is always hard too for people who didn't play those rotational sports (baseball, hockey etc.) growing up. I have a couple buddies that picked up the game without the above, and it can be rough for them. Just not a natural motion for them. 

[RoyalMustang]

4 minutes ago, aramirez24 said:

Be honest with him and let him know what a realistic timeline is for being able to go play with his coworkers and not embarrass himself. There are also a lot of things you don't know about being on a golf course that you can't learn without going out. Etiquette, pace of play, etc. If his coworkers are good players that kind of stuff matters to them more than him being able to break 80. My favorite part about golf is trying to get better and I enjoy playing with other people with that same mindset, unless it's a scramble for work it's a long path to get there for your buddy.  

 

I told him that I would play the local par 3 with him to teach him golf etiquette and whatnot. I think that's important. 

[MelloYello]

2 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Good points: I told him to devote a chunk of time on weekends (6-8 hours) and 2-3 evenings a week if he wants to improve. He didn't believe that's what is needed. 

 

I think he misses the point that several of the guys in his firm played in college: they put in their 25 hour weeks on the golf course for years and have hit that magical 10,000 hour mark by now. 

 

What he is doing would be like me trying to learn violin well enough to play in a local orchestra. I can't even read music! 

 

Yeah, it's like saying you're going to be a full-time traveler but you buy an RV that needs a total renovation and an engine overhaul. You might have a goal of being a traveler but you've signed up for a year of work in your garage, lol. 

 

Golf is great, but you've got to be able to do the fundamental stuff--and I know how impossible that can be for the uncoordinated type people you're describing who normally just stay away from the game entirely.

 

His playing regular golf with his colleagues means hitting it reasonably solid from driver to wedge and keeping it in bounds. It sounds to me like he's going to have to go to the range a lot.

 

2 minutes ago, dfeldss said:

I think if it's purely for business reasons and he has no interest in it otherwise, it's doomed to be a failed experiment. You've got to really love it to start from scratch like it sounds like he is.

 

Starting so late is always hard too for people who didn't play those rotational sports (baseball, hockey etc.) growing up. I have a couple buddies that picked up the game without the above, and it can be rough for them. Just not a natural motion for them. 

 

Yeah, 100%. This is spot on. Golf is something you do because you're willing to put up with the suffering for long enough that it evolves into something pretty cool. 

[Dpavs]

Your answer was in the first sentence. "... knows nothing about, and has very little interest in, golf."

If he is going to try to take up something as challenging as golf can be for the wrong reasons in the first place, he is doing himself and any group he plays with a huge disservice.

 

It is very possible too, that those he plays with will not think positively of him for not wanting to put in the work to get better. In fact they may well think poorly of him for this reason. Hard workers work hard, doesn't matter whether it's in or out of the office. Just my honest opinion of course.

[RoyalMustang]

1 minute ago, dfeldss said:

I think if it's purely for business reasons and he has no interest in it otherwise, it's doomed to be a failed experiment. You've got to really love it to start from scratch like it sounds like he is.

 

Starting so late is always hard too for people who didn't play those rotational sports (baseball, hockey etc.) growing up. I have a couple buddies that picked up the game without the above, and it can be rough for them. Just not a natural motion for them. 

 

yeah, you summed it up for me. He has no passion for it and his type of sports tend to be ones where you can get seriously hurt. 

 

If he were passionate about the sport, like some other buddies who picked it up late, I would be super enthusiastic about helping him more. 

[MelloYello]

3 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I told him that I would play the local par 3 with him to teach him golf etiquette and whatnot. I think that's important. 

 

Thinking back, I spent a ton of time on the range during the first 2-3 years of my doing golf. I started at the tail end of college but had ability to swing the club and hit the ball having playing tons of baseball, basketball, etc as a kid. 

 

I would just have a serious discussion with him about how uch time he's going to have to spend on the range. Make sure he appreciates how delicate the golf swing is and how much effort good players spend refining that during their countless hours at the range. Maybe it's worth having a conversation with his work colleagues, too. If they're good players, they'll be another source of insight on the matter. 

 

I bet it's do-able, but only for someone who's really willing to become a range rat for awhile and as @dfeldss pointed out, a lot of that's built upon wanting to do it. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

16 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

I gave him the name of my instructor back in May: he hasn't reached out yet. If that were me, I would probably have gotten 3-4 lessons by now! Income's not the issue. 

 

First things first. You need to tell him NOT to go out to the range unless he's getting some beginner lessons first. If he's got some funky looking swing, he needs to learn good habits BEFORE he ingrains a bunch of terrible ones. It's a lot harder to fix them if you've let them take hold. 

 

He's probably got a terribly funky swing because he has no clue what he's supposed to be doing and is just doing what he feels is correct. Gotta change that IMMEDIATELY if he's actually going to do it. 

 

11 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

yeah, you summed it up for me. He has no passion for it and his type of sports tend to be ones where you can get seriously hurt. 

 

If he were passionate about the sport, like some other buddies who picked it up late, I would be super enthusiastic about helping him more. 

 

Golf is hard to be passionate about before you've played it. If he's seriously thinking about this, he should take some lessons, get at least proficient enough to have middling contact, and then go out and play the par 3 with you a bunch of times. When he starts making a few pars, when he makes his first birdie, you'll probably see if the passion develops. 

 

He might catch the bug. He also might not. But I wouldn't say it's a lost cause because he's not passionate about something he's never even really tried. 

 

[Naptime]

Client golf needs at least basic competence, understanding of the rules, and ability to be fast if not good.  Embarrassing himself or a client is no way to win business.

[darkhelmet]

You need to be direct with him and tell him that he's going to flat-out embarrass himself and harm his career rather than help it if he doesn't start with lessons first.

 

Get him to start with one lesson a week and one additional day at the range each week.  Even help him to set up the first lesson, but tell him he's got to take care of his lesson schedule from there.

 

If he can't even handle that much, you gotta cut him loose and tell him you're done with this fiasco.  Because if you do help him a little bit and things go as poorly as everyone here knows they will, he's going to be coming back to blame you.

[blades_are_life]

43 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

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Morning snack: 2-3 F45 meals.

Lunch: A big salad with extra chicken and haloumi.

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Actually sold on that fitness program, this is like a decently restrained approach to eating healthy...

 

Honestly I don't understand how someone is capable of doing a fitness regimen successfully without having any kinesthetic awareness but if he has the discipline to actually stick with that regimen and get the results from it I think it is reasonable to think he might be able to devote what is needed to developing a moderately capable golf game, especially if he puts it in terms of career development as well as a recreational endeavor. I would not discourage him but also not try to help himself yourself; if he is working big law he surely has the financial resources to get a lot of lessons, and with what you describe this sounds like a job for the professionals. He will discover himself if the little interest changes into real interest or if there was little interest for a reason.

 

[LBB]

LOL…golf isn’t that hard to learn and enjoy.  If it were, 80% of the people I see on golf courses, sometimes myself included, shouldn’t be playing golf either.  The vast majority of us are hacks to various degrees, and we were all really bad hacks at one point in life…or still are.

The main thing is to learn proper etiquette and not slowing down the game for your foursome.  If this guy ends up hating the game and not wanting to get better at it…let him come to that conclusion himself.  

[caniac6]

Kind of his decision. I’d tell him to get some lessons, and maybe direct him to a good teacher, but, besides that, I’d stay out of it. He’ll be able to decide if he wants to go further, or if it’s too difficult. I would never discourage anyone from trying this great game.

[goaliedad30]

The telling comment earlier in the thread is "he never grew up playing any ball sports". All the folks I've know who successfully became reasonably good at golf starting later in life had earlier experience in one or more sports that involved "hitting an object with a stick" -- baseball, tennis, hockey, badminton, etc.

 

Without exposure to that kind of hand-eye coordination training, it takes a LOT more desire and work ethic to become proficient than it sounds like he has.

[Sp4zRX]

I think he should give it a shot. He should get out there with OP and some other casual golfers. He might find that he actually likes the game and decides he wants to learn to play better for himself. If he’s only doing it to play socially with the golfers at his firm, then it won’t end well. 

[third-times-a-charm]

He can do whatever he wants?

[monty09]

you would be shocked what a motivated person will do for money... or to advance their career....   

 

 

suggest a coach and a proper fitting then get out of his way

[Binson]

Start now and tell no one.  In a few years maybe he breaks 100, or he's quit.  But, if he doesn't start, he'll still be in the same position 10 years from now. 

 

If he starts and tells no one at the firm, there's really no loss and he'll know for himselfif it's for him or not ultimately. 

[Duct Tape]

My 2 cents worth, having not read the whole thread. 
 

Play golf if you enjoy it, like to be outside, want a challenge as golf is a game no one will ever master (unlike pickleball🤓). All the better if you appreciate the beauty and design of golf courses, and can walk, especially with friends, enjoying the banter and a great round or shot by your friend. 
 

Learn the rules and play by them. Develop a very brief shot routine and play fast and efficiently. Learn to pick up when you’re out of a hole. 
 

If it works out to be a business bonus, so much the better, but IMO that’s not the main point. 
 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Duct Tape

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

I know if it were me, I would follow Clint Eastwood's advice and be a man who knows his limitations, or devote 15 hours/week to actually getting good. Anyone else been in this situation work-wise? Personally, I enjoy hanging out with my friends but not on the golf course if they never golf and are shooting 120. I get stressed about holding up groups behind us and whatnot; I'd rather just meet up for coffee or beer. 

 

That's good theoretical advice, except that most people aren't aware of their limits, mostly because they haven't been tested.  Most people struggle hitting that little ball when they start out, too.  Hell, most people struggle at using gym equipment. LOL 

 

Be a friend and support him, don't put negative Nancy thoughts in his head.  Let him do his thing and learn for himself.  He may find something that motivates him beyond what you think he's capable of.  Friends of mine from HS never thought any of us were capable of much more than manual labor, yet I bought half a company in my early 20s.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Pepperturbo