Is there a point where bunkers are so rocky they're unsafe?

[2bGood]

Would I play out of lie like that? Yes pretty much always. 

 

Most of my golf is in tournaments or for (small) money. Even if it is amongst friends, we play by the rules as it get complicated when you try to create your own rules. If I was in that spot I would likely not hit a full shot, but play chip out and see if I can manufacture a par.

 

I think allot of people seem not to relish in the idea of grinding out a score, but I find it kind of fun to see if I can turn a bad break into a par - even more so on casual rounds. 

 

Is there something in the rules to avoid hitting from that lie?

You can remove stones under rule 12.2a

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by 2bGood

[ShortGolfer]

I'll do something I think is reasonable and look up the answer when I get home.

I removed a small rock behind my ball in a bunker.  Turns out that was OK.

 

Played a shot standing in shallow water on the fairway.  Turns out I didn't need to do that.  Could have taken a drop.

 

Lots of nasty thunderstorms and flash floods lately.  Far fewer golfers on the course when there is water in the fairways.

Where I play the first hole is the worst so you know what to expect for the rest of the round.

Edited September 13, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[Hawkeye77]

On 9/11/2023 at 3:36 PM, Augster said:

I’d either play it forward, or sideways, or putt it, or take an unplayable. 
 

The Rules give you PLENTY of options to avoid damage. 
 

What we are really talking about is hubris, ego, and entitlement. Is your day REALLY going to be ruined if you take an unplayable and your “score” is on strike higher? I mean really. 
 

Get over yourself, you’re not that good. If you were that good, you wouldn’t be in that bunker OR playing munis. They have weekly tournaments for good players. 
 

How about we all set our egos aside and just agree to play by the Rules? You might shoot a couple of shots worse than “normal” until you come to grips with your actual scoring, THEN that will be your new “normal”. 
 

Or stop hitting it in bunkers. That’s an option. 

He did hit out of it. 

[bcjim]

Absent a committee,  can't the players in the group declare themselves the committee and declare the bunker GUR?

[Augster]

11 hours ago, bcjim said:

Absent a committee,  can't the players in the group declare themselves the committee and declare the bunker GUR?

In USA, yes they can. 
 

That said, if one of my FC’s (friends in a friendly game) asks if we should declare it GUR, my answer would be, “I don’t see any white lines around the bunker, or anything on the card. Don’t like the lie, don’t hit it there.”

 

Another of my favorite lines is, “Don’t ask me for free relief. I’m KVC you won’t like my answer.”

Edited September 14, 2023 by Augster

[nsxguy]

On 9/12/2023 at 6:00 AM, North Butte said:

I was answering the original poster's question.

 

If it's in the wrong sub-forum the Moderators will move it. Otherwise, we'll continue the discussion here. 

 

LOL, you think the moderators check every thread for whether or not it's in the right place ?

[kiwigolf72]

just curious, what's a casual round? a round where the rules of golf are not followed therefore no card is submitted?

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, kiwigolf72 said:

just curious, what's a casual round? a round where the rules of golf are not followed therefore no card is submitted?

For me a Casual round - not competitive and no card submitted.  I haven't played in a competition in 10+ yrs or submitted a card for 5+ yrs so all my rounds are "casual rounds."  Not to say I don't follow the Rules, but there are times I just play for fun and don't care what the score is.

[Augster]

2 hours ago, kiwigolf72 said:

just curious, what's a casual round? a round where the rules of golf are not followed therefore no card is submitted?

In the US, if we’re playing with others, we still have to submit scores for handicap purposes. So, if you’re keeping a legit cap, all of our “casual rounds” are supposed to be played by the ROG. 
 

I played 9 today with random folks, something I almost never do. 99.9% of the rounds I play are with money on the line or in a tournament, that I paid to play in and have prizes. So today’s 9 holes was as “casual” as I’ll ever play. But because I still have to post the score, I played the 9 by the ROG. 
 

I think the term “casual round”, in the US at least, means a round with your friends or random folks. Basically anything outside a tourney. But if you keep a cap, and play with people, you’re still supposed to play by the ROG and post your scores. 

[kiwigolf72]

Agree, all rounds we play we are expected to hand a card in,which means playing by the ROG, just interested that more than a few people referred to casual rounds, I was just trying to understand what they meant.

if it's just people having a hit not keeping a score and making the rules up as they go then I have no issues with it, if its people deciding what rules to follow depending on what suits them and then handing a card in, well that's different.

[cardigan]

On 9/11/2023 at 8:45 PM, North Butte said:

The guys I play with don't really care to have a bet decided by a de facto two stroke penalty every time someone hits out of a ruined, unmaintained bunker. If we had to play under the Rules from washed-out bunkers after overnight thunderstorms, without moving the ball to a spot with sand instead of rocks, that would lead to people laying up just to avoid bunkers and other distractions from playing the game.

 

So if it's a day when they're all in bad shape (or if it's one of the handful of bunkers that are always in bad shape) we move it to a spot with sand or if necessary we remove rocks and rake up a little bit of sand to place the ball. Then we play the bunker shot. That's the most fair way to keep the game playing normally in completely unacceptable bunker conditions. Far better than taking free drops outside the bunker, for instance.

 

My own preference would be to treat bunkers like a hazard (and yes I know the Rules guys will say I'm not supposed to use the word) and have the option of playing it as it lies or dropping outside with one stroke penalty. But the group would rather do the "move the rocks and rake up sand" thing and I'm fine with that. Nobody has any interest in dropping outside with a two-stroke penalty or returning to the previous spot. And nobody but nobody is interested in just bashing their clubs down into a bunch of gravel two or three times a round. 

 

Only the "rake up a little bit of sand" part really sounds like a possible rule violation to me as long as you think a reasonable rules official would say that the state of the area your ball is in is an abnormal playing condition and you can take relief.  That's typically used for standing water in a bunker but I think exposed drainage gravel (or an actual drainage pipe) would also qualify.  You don't need a committee to determine if something is an abnormal playing condition.

 

Moving rocks from the bunker - rule 12.2.a loose impediments in a bunker

Taking free relief in the bunker - rule 16.1.c abnormal course conditions in a bunker

One stroke penalty for dropping outside of the bunker - rule 16.1.c abnormal course conditions in a bunker  

Edited September 21, 2023 by cardigan

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, cardigan said:

 

Only the "rake up a little bit of sand" part really sounds like a possible rule violation to me as long as you think a reasonable rules official would say that the state of the area your ball is in is an abnormal playing condition and you can take relief.  That's typically used for standing water in a bunker but I think exposed drainage gravel (or an actual drainage pipe) would also qualify.  You don't need a committee to determine if something is an abnormal playing condition.

 

Moving rocks from the bunker - rule 12.2.a loose impediments in a bunker

Taking free relief in the bunker - rule 16.1.c abnormal course conditions in a bunker

One stroke penalty for dropping outside of the bunker - rule 16.1.c abnormal course conditions in a bunker  

Yes, I agree we're basically exaggerating the procedures in the Rules for taking relief from abnormal bunker conditions. Instead of searching about for a spot with normal conditions and trying to make a drop onto that spot we've decided to go ahead and create a suitable spot and place the ball.

 

While that is certainly not within the Rules I personally don't feel it's an unreasonable expedient. I think some of our guys would rather just fluff the sand and place the ball for every bunker shot regardless of conditions but as a group we feel that would be over the top and not the kind of habit we'd want to adopt.

[larrybud]

On 9/11/2023 at 4:36 PM, Augster said:

Get over yourself, you’re not that good. If you were that good, you wouldn’t be in that bunker

 

True, I've never seen a PGA Pro in a bunker, ever...

[North Butte]

9 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

True, I've never seen a PGA Pro in a bunker, ever...

Unlike Tour players, I'm definitely not good enough to EVER yell, "Get in the bunker!" after an iron shot!