If majority of the LPGA don't use 4 irons.. why do you?

[tatertot]

3 hours ago, ProV1Killa said:

It's simple, when I pull out that teeny tiny MB 3 iron on the first tee and proceed to hit a sweeping hook that rolls out past your driver I'm in your head and the match is as good as over.

You need to stop playing matches against 10 year olds.

[tatertot]

4 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Can't say whether right or wrong, regarding who might be in that buddy boat you're suggesting.  I am not, and believe there are more than a few here.  Good golfers always know a few things, their strengths, weaknesses, and carry yardages of each club.  Otherwise, they don't  play hard courses, regional events or real $$$ matches.   

 

Good golf is NOT about ego, or static decisions.  Whether using blade long irons or hybrids, good golfers choose clubs based on their ability to hit them.

 

Carrying a 4i, 160yds, is fine for guys, especially on shorter courses where there's no forced carry.  My 80+yr old relative still carries 4i-PW, but uses a hybrid too.  He only plays, 5500yd, and no forced carry, so he's fine.  If you and others like hybrids, fine.  They don't interest me.  Maybe when I am 80+... LOL 

Good golf may not be about ego, but your posts sure are ...

[Pepperturbo]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

You triggered a memory....

 

One of the few times a random person noticed what's in my bag...  I was playing in a threesome at my usual course.  Was carrying Ram TG-898s, 2-PW.  Guys ahead of us saw us, let us play through because in their words, "we're way slower than you guys."

 

#2 at my course is a dogleg about 335 yds.  I usually hit my 2 iron off the tee in those days, to avoid tree issues.  One guy noticed I had an iron, came over to watch me put it in my bag and saw it was a 2i, and when he saw it was a blade, he got pretty jacked about the whole thing.

 

It really wasn't anything special, and still isn't.  Makes me laugh, though, even now.

 

On the course, people are generally cordial.  People that know equipment, typically get excited watching someone make shots using blade long irons.  Those Ram TG irons required some talent.  

[ProV1Killa]

4 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

Note---I was on a trackman today and even with my SS my 4 iron carry is only ~6yds longer than my 5 iron carry---significantly less than 10-11 yd gaps i normally have

Swing speed is only part of the of the equation.  Most players that I see the struggle with long iron carry distance, assuming they are striking the ball reasonably close to center, comes down strike technique.  If your 7 iron SS is in the 88 - 89 range that should put your 3 iron in the 98 - 100 range, which is enough speed to play any 3 iron made.  The issue is that you have to have solid enough fundamentals to compress and spin the long irons the same as short irons.  Only difference is ball position shallows out AoA.  If you can't spin it enough to get proper spin loft you simply can't play a long iron because 1) you can't launch it high enough, and 2) you can't keep it in the air long enough.

[MtlJeff]

1 minute ago, ProV1Killa said:

Swing speed is only part of the of the equation.  Most players that I see the struggle with long iron carry distance, assuming they are striking the ball reasonably close to center, comes down strike technique.  If your 7 iron SS is in the 88 - 89 range that should put your 3 iron in the 98 - 100 range, which is enough speed to play any 3 iron made.  The issue is that you have to have solid enough fundamentals to compress and spin the long irons the same as short irons.  Only difference is ball position shallows out AoA.  If you can't spin it enough to get proper spin loft you simply can't play a long iron because 1) you can't launch it high enough, and 2) you can't keep it in the air long enough.

 

88-89 with a 7 iron is pretty fast. I think most would probably agree with that kind of speed and proper technique you can hit any kind of iron

 

I was carrying 32 degree 7 irons close to 180 at 86-87mph today. That's maxing out for me. I struggle with irons in the 20-21 range but can play most else

[Chunkitgood]

Short answer to OP’s question:

 

Because I can.

 

Slightly longer response:

 

It may be hard for people like him to understand, but I do not wish to get incredible results, like he says he does, from a bad swing.  I want to get good results from a good swing, and bad results from a bad one.

 

Sometimes I think the people who think golf is hard have never actually seriously worked at anything the results of which have serious implications.  If they had, they could put golf in perspective, and understand two things: it is recreational, a break from what is important, so your score just doesn’t matter; and the rewards of golf in terms of the dopamine reward system are based on intermittent reinforcement, so if you get nothing but “incredible results” you are robbing yourself of the best part of the game.

 

Of course, I guess there are still those for whom golf remains enough of a challenge for such reinforcement to come into play even with incredible results from bad swings.  Nothing against them, and I don’t think they have to justify themselves and their choice of clubs by subtly (or not) implying people who use the clubs they cannot use are deluded egoists.  But apparently they do.

 

I don’t know what loft a modern 4 iron is.  A 20 degree iron used to be a 2 iron, it’s a 3 for me now.  They are hard to hit well.  But when I do, it’s pretty sweet.  When I don’t, I (usually) get to practice my bunker technique.  Sort of a win/win.

 

 

 

 

[tatertot]

5 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

Short answer to OP’s question:

 

Because I can.

 

Slightly longer response:

 

It may be hard for people like him to understand, but I do not wish to get incredible results, like he says he does, from a bad swing.  I want to get good results from a good swing, and bad results from a bad one.

 

Sometimes I think the people who think golf is hard have never actually seriously worked at anything the results of which have serious implications.  If they had, they could put golf in perspective, and understand two things: it is recreational, a break from what is important, so your score just doesn’t matter; and the rewards of golf in terms of the dopamine reward system are based on intermittent reinforcement, so if you get nothing but “incredible results” you are robbing yourself of the best part of the game.

 

Of course, I guess there are still those for whom golf remains enough of a challenge for such reinforcement to come into play even with incredible results from bad swings.  Nothing against them, and I don’t think they have to justify themselves and their choice of clubs by subtly (or not) implying people who use the clubs they cannot use are deluded egoists.  But apparently they do.

 

I don’t know what loft a modern 4 iron is.  A 20 degree iron used to be a 2 iron, it’s a 3 for me now.  They are hard to hit well.  But when I do, it’s pretty sweet.  When I don’t, I (usually) get to practice my bunker technique.  Sort of a win/win.

 

 

 

 

Do use a persimmon driver and a Bullseye putter? Blade irons from the 1950s? If so, good on ya ...

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, ProV1Killa said:

If your 7 iron SS is in the 88 - 89 range that should put your 3 iron in the 98 - 100 range, which is enough speed to play any 3 iron made.

2 inches longer (39" vs 37") = 10 more MPH club speed?  When robots are only getting ~4 MPH per inch?  Not sure about that. 

 

95-97 range?  Sure.  And that also should be enough to elevate any long iron.  So a distinction with some difference, but not much.

[ShortGolfer]

28 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

I don’t know what loft a modern 4 iron is.  A 20 degree iron used to be a 2 iron, it’s a 3 for me now.  They are hard to hit well.  But when I do, it’s pretty sweet.  When I don’t, I (usually) get to practice my bunker technique.  

I learned to play golf using 22* Mavrik Max Lite 4 iron from the tee box.  I play a hilly executive course and the fairways are tough to hit  with a driver. 

Some places the fairways are only 13 yards wide. 

Some have a nasty slope. making one side higher than the other.

I had a brief chat with a guy who said the course was the worst.  His wife loves it, which is why he came back to play it again even though he hates it! He said the only good hole is 9th, so I know it wasn't his first time.

My new 22* club is an XXIO 12 5 iron.  The set has no irons lower than 5, so there is no set 4 iron. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[JP1000]

1 hour ago, Chunkitgood said:

Short answer to OP’s question:

 

Because I can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, this is me.  High handicapper (20+).  For some reason, choking up, I can hit my 4 iron consistently and with tight dispersion about 180 to 200 yards.  I alternate with hybrids as my second shot, but the 4 iron gets me better results (not always).  YMMV.  Play what works!

[ProV1Killa]

1 hour ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

And that also should be enough to elevate any long iron.

I agree that SS is enough.  There still has to be sufficient spin and spin loft generated to hit a long iron effectively.  I digress, but that is why most better players still tend to carry some form of iron in the 3/4 range even if that means a utility build.  TM 770s, T200 style irons that are still played like an iron show up in a lot of tour pro, collegiate, high level ams bags because you launch them with spin loft which equals better control of distance and flight.  Same reason we hear a debate regarding who takes a divot with a hybrid, high level players still want to compress and spin for control.  

[Pnwpingi210]

I thought about this a little more.  
 

most people I see on the course that have lpga equivalent swing speeds (80mph with 4 iron) do not carry a 4 iron(and most of the time no 5 iron either)  and have some sort of replacement IF, and a big IF, they are playing a somewhat modern set of clubs they purchased.

 

that goes out the window if they are playing a 30 year old set or rental clubs.  
 

So I think most players that shouldnt play a 4 iron, don’t and have some sort of replacement. 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Pnwpingi210

[st1800e]

I haven’t had a 4iron in the bag since 1989.  

[ProV1Killa]

2 hours ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

to elevate any long iron. 

This is a statement to be careful of. It isn't how high you get the ball, it is how you get the ball high that matters.  

 

An average golfer who has good, or even better than average speed, and even hits the ball reasonably out of the screws, gets the ball plenty high, but still doesn't get proper gapping between the 4 and 5 or 4 and 3.  It isn't a SS issue it is a swing flaw issue.  Most that I see that do this are simply presenting too much dynamic loft either flipping or sweeping.  Too much dynamic loft exchanges SS for elevation.  Telltale ball flight is like a bell shaped curve.  It gets high quickly then falls short as a good portion of energy is spent going up.  A properly struck long iron has the same flight as a mid or short iron.  Launch angle should be about 1/2 static loft so SS is exchanged for horizontal distance rather than elevation, which maintains proper gapping.  Spin loft creates the proper apex which maintains ball control.

[Brokensticks]

Because I have good enough speed to achieve satisfying results with a 4i.

 

Hybrids are hit or miss for me. Sometimes its great but most of the time its a hook left with its weird face.

 

My 4i is like 200y carry with a soft landing and then the 5w comes in at 225. No reason to use a hybrid. 

[blades_are_life]

13 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yes, but finishing a hole too.

 

 

That is less reliable though!

[zengineer]

The majority of them also don't use urinals but it doesn't mean I should stop.

 

I don't disagree that people should be realistic about the longest iron they can hit, and above that carry something they can get up in the air or even another wedge.  I'm just not sure what the LPGA, PGA, USGA or FFA has to do with it.

[Mitchell]

My 4 iron still works well for my intended purposes and yardages needed, so no reason to look elsewhere at this point. That being stated, I did replace my 3 iron with a 20* Srixon MKII utility for a bit more versatility and ease of use at that slot in the bag. 

[mrdctaylor]

I got back into golf after a 15 year layoff or so.  My now adult son took it up so I got back into it.  The first thing I did was get a 3H and drop the 3i.  Once I saw how easy that was I got a 4H and then a 5H and dropped more irons.  It is fantastic.

 

Having said that, I finally replaced my 25 year old irons and got 6 thru gap wedge.  I hit the 6 so well, I bought a 5 so I could have the option of going with either 5H or 5i.  I wanted to get the 5i that matched my set while I could still easily do so.  Right now the 5i is in the bag, but I may go back to the 5H.  The new 5i is much easier to hit than my old one despite being stronger lofted, but I still think the 5H is easier. The 3H and 4H are never leaving the bag, that's for sure.  What I really need to do is hit a bunch on a launch monitor and compare the difference and see if I'm really getting the gapping I need.  But I live in the sticks and don't have easy access to one.   I'm secretly hoping my son breaks down and buys one and then I can use his. 😉

Golf would've been less frustrating 20 years ago if I'd carried hybrids.

Edited October 13, 2023 by mrdctaylor

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 minute ago, mrdctaylor said:

Golf would've been less frustrating 20 years ago if I'd carried hybrids.

Agreed.  This is pushing 30 years now, but my favorite club at the time was that little railed Taylormade System2 utility wood.  That was hybrid-like before (or just at) the time Adams made his hybrids.  Hit it far better than any of the irons at the top of my then-bag.

[gvogel]

I remember back in 1978 and 1979, when I was 26, I had a Lynx 1-iron that I could hit about 190 (into the wind), and a Lynx 3-iron that was the best club in my bag, good for 180 - 185.

 

Last night I put together a shaft and a 26* TSR1 hybrid, good for 155, so now I have a club to use when 7-iron is too short.  I guess now I have to find something for 165.  5-wood is automatic 180.

 

Times change.

[mrdctaylor]

2 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Agreed.  This is pushing 30 years now, but my favorite club at the time was that little railed Taylormade System2 utility wood.  That was hybrid-like before (or just at) the time Adams made his hybrids.  Hit it far better than any of the irons at the top of my then-bag.

I had a Callaway Steelhead 7 wood (still have it actually) but the head was so small it was sort of hard to hit.  I've always hit irons better than woods and hybrids have really been a game changer for me.

[MountainKing]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:38 AM, bombs said:

I've just made the shift from 4 iron to 4 hybrid and life on the course has never been easier.

 

Can hit it anywhere on the face and still get incredible results. Impossible to hit it fat. Goes through the rough with ease. Workable. Can hit it high/low. 100% stress free golf. 

 

Admittedly I'm not practicing as much as I used to but I feel like i've stumbled on a cheat code. 

 

SO GolfWRX.... why the long irons? Let's be honest - we know you can't hit em 😘

 

Weird post....   this seems like "i'm jumping off the bridge so you all should come jump with me" type situation.   You do you, who cares about anybody else. 

[GeauxGolfLSU]

I got fit recently into the new Titleist irons. I previously had a 5 hybrid that was really my 4 iron replacement (similar loft, longer shaft). My fitter said that with as far as I was hitting the T200 6 iron, I didn't even need a 5 iron in that set. Turns out he was right. So I'm not carrying a 4 or 5 iron.

[AngryGilmore]

On 10/12/2023 at 8:54 AM, ranesy said:

I had the pleasure of walking with several LPGA player groups in a recent tournament and had a nice chat with some of the players and their caddies during the day (very approachable people vs the snooty PGA counterparts).

 

What surprised me was how the ladies never swing all out....very measured swings...focusing more on accuracy vs all out distance. This may create the perception that they cannot hit it far. Watching Lexi T's swing is jaw-dropping!

 

I carry both a 3i and a 4i because I have a lot of confidence hitting long irons & my success rate hitting them how I intend is very high. I cannot hit a hybrid at all so have never kept them in the bag too long.

 

Watching Lexi is jaw-dropping.  😛     But really you can learn a lot about tempo from watching the LPGA.  They never seem to rush a swing or try and crush one over the trees like we do.  Everyone seems to have the same swing pace and plane.  

[Pepperturbo]

17 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

88-89 with a 7 iron is pretty fast. I think most would probably agree with that kind of speed and proper technique you can hit any kind of iron

 

I was carrying 32 degree 7 irons close to 180 at 86-87mph today. That's maxing out for me. I struggle with irons in the 20-21 range but can play most else

Yes, it is respectable, especially when combined with sweet spot ball striking.

I am elated with 147+yds carry from a 34' 7 iron using 83-85mph.  Some say I B an ole guy...not ready to buy that yet. 🙂

 

[ChipNRun]

I was a caddie at a Symetra Tour* event (LPGA developmental) in 2017. From what I saw on course and on the range, roughly half the field carried 3H + 4H in their bridge clubs. And, the women could really do magic tricks hitting the hybrid in a variety of shots.

 

Also, 7Ws and an occasional 9W rode in the bags, plus a few driving irons and set 4-irons here and there.

 

Now, one thing to take into account in the long-iron debate is the average height of golfers in different niches of the sport:

• PGA Tour = 6-foot
• European Tour = 5-foot-11
• LPGA Tour = 5-foot-6
• Korean LPGA Tour = 5-foot-4

If you'll notice, the men are taller on average than the women. Taller golfers generate more leverage than shorter ones, thus taller golfers would have better luck with long irons. This would apply both for pros and everyday golfers. For details, see article above.

 

I'm 5-foot-8, not the tallest.

 

For about three seasons, I carried a 4H + 4i, and only 3 wedges. The stock 4i from my steel-shafted Tour Edge iron set was a bit iffy, so I had it refitted with an R-flex  graphite hybrid shaft. This yielded a superb driving iron for short, treacherous par 4 tee shots, and for approaches into the wind.

 

But, when I shifted iron sets, the new Max 5i went almost as far as the 4i, and was more reliable off the deck. And, I learned how to hit a stinger with a 4H. So, no real need for a 4i.

 

Extra club slot: went back to four wedges, which increased user-friendliness of my shot matrix.

 

* In 2022, Symetra became the Epson Tour.

Edited October 15, 2023 by ChipNRun
Typo

[Mike_C]

I tried ditching my 4 iron, but you just can't punch out of the woods and under trees nearly as well with hybrids......

 

 

[MtlJeff]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yes, it is respectable, especially when combined with sweet spot ball striking.

I am elated with 147+yds carry from a 34' 7 iron using 83-85mph.  Some say I B an ole guy...not ready to buy that yet. 🙂

 

 

We're all degrees of old! Every year i have to play Quebec AMs against 18yr olds who hit their hybrids past my driver

 

I'm like McConaughey in Dazed and Confused. I get older, and they stay the same age

[cardoustie]

We all know 4 cappers can beat LPGA players, so carry long irons at will