Order of play, off the tee.

[rzitup]

22 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

In wolf, you take the player or don’t after his first shot. Once the next guy hits, you can’t take the previous guy. Therefore, and keeping within tradition, a provisional should always be taken after all players have hit. 
 

… at least that’s what my bookies tell me.

 

When I read this thread, it was just after finishing a round of Wolf, and that is exactly why I posed the scenario!

There ARE scenarios where you might choose a person that hits three off the tee.  And for that reason alone, it always seemed to me that, finishing your turn on the tee before the next person steps up, was the most reasonable and accurate way of approaching order.

 

[Pepperturbo]

On 1/22/2024 at 2:22 PM, jobin said:

I had been taught that when playing shots off the tee box all players are entitled to take their first shot before any player takes a provisional, or 2nd ball.  But now i notice that the folks i play with seem not to care about this.

 

Bob, first on the tee, smashes one 40 yds into the lake, roots around in his pocket for another tee, or ball, or both and hits a 2nd ball straight away.  The 3 or 4 guys next to play wait until Bob clears.  Whenever this happens or is questioned the 'offending' player merely hollers out 'pace of play, ready golf'.  In other words, " i do as i like'.

 

Am i wrong in thinking the any 2nd shot off the tee...must/should wait till all players have taken the first shot?  I believe in years past there was a RULE, but none found now, so i guess this question boils down to golf etiquette.

 

Any up to date comments on this v minor topic.

I still play by the 2nd shot provisional etiquette rule where 2nd ball is played after the rest of the tee group tees off.  I am not afraid to say it out loud either.  Some whack nuts can't get off the tee, so might hit 3–5 balls, which is uncalled-for.  You're taking too much time. That's when I say drop in the fairway.  If my wife does that, she knows the etiquette is to drop where my ball is.

 

Tour players hit their provisional right after dumping one in a pond.  I suppose that's to help the pace of play.

[iacas]

31 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Tour players hit their provisional right after dumping one in a pond.  I suppose that's to help the pace of play.

 

a) they don't hit provisionals after "dumping one in a pond."

b) they don't hit right after, unless it's an approach shot or something. If the first player to go off the 10th tee hits one that may be OB, he'll wait until the other player (or two) have hit before hitting his provisional.

[Pepperturbo]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

a) they don't hit provisionals after "dumping one in a pond."

b) they don't hit right after, unless it's an approach shot or something. If the first player to go off the 10th tee hits one that may be OB, he'll wait until the other player (or two) have hit before hitting his provisional.

Thanks, but I've seen players, after dumping one in the pond, hit again from fairway or the tee, others wait and move to drop zone.  The TV production trailer can influence pace of play. 

[iacas]

Uh huh. I may have seen it too. But what I've seen FAR more often is, if the player who needs to hit another ball was not the last player to hit from the tee, they will wait and hit again after the others have hit their tee shots.

From the fairway it would often depend on who is still away, who is ready to play when, etc.

Also, still not likely to be a provisional for hitting it in the water.

[betarhoalphadelta]

4 hours ago, rzitup said:

 

When I read this thread, it was just after finishing a round of Wolf, and that is exactly why I posed the scenario!

There ARE scenarios where you might choose a person that hits three off the tee.  And for that reason alone, it always seemed to me that, finishing your turn on the tee before the next person steps up, was the most reasonable and accurate way of approaching order.

 

 

Yeah, but as I said in my response on Wolf, it's really not exactly "stroke play" so I'm not sure the stroke play rule applies. From a gambling perspective it's Fourball match play each hole. But the unique nature of the game suggests that you should have each player complete their "tee off" result before the next player attempts their first swing. 

 

The nature of the game is that the Wolf player has to make a choice on Player 1 before Player 2 tees off. And likewise for Player 2 before Player 3, and Player 3 before they themselves tees off. So you should have full understanding of Player 1's tee "result" before Player 2 swings, and so forth. 

 

By introducing Wolf, you are not playing pure stroke play, so it's not necessarily a "rules" question IMHO. And it's also not really an etiquette question, because the nature of the game may require you to do things that wouldn't be done in "normal" golf etiquette in service of the gambling version. 

 

Heck, if you're playing Wolf, you've already blown "order of play off the tee" out of the equation. Because you're not relying on "honors" as to who holds the tee box. You've predetermined it for every hole on the first tee regardless of whether someone made an eagle or a triple bogey on the previous hole. 

 

So I'd say in stroke play, the player who has to hit a provisional or second should wait until others have teed off, based on both rules and etiquette. In Wolf... Not so much. 

[Nickb333]

Specifically to the wolf game. And I agree, it has little to do with regular stroke play. As long as it’s well established before the game begins, I don’t actually care if you must pick after the first t ball or get to wait for a provisional/second ball. But…
 

I can think of two situations where it’s not fair to delay your partner selection until their second tee ball is played. 
 

One opponent ripped his t ball into a hazard on a par 4.  Then holed his re tee for a birdie. 
 

I was playing safe on a short dogleg par 4 over water. Laid up a slice into the water. Then pulled driver, re teed, carried the green and one putted for par. 
 

In both instances there was nothing to lose for the person hitting the second ball. The players mindset has changed. The wolf shouldn’t benefit from that IMO. The wolf should weigh his chances after the first stroke. 
 

again, jmo. 

[Mr. Bean]

16 hours ago, iacas said:

From the fairway it would often depend on who is still away, who is ready to play when, etc.

 

 

Not to mention that if a player hitting their ball into a pond from the fairway chooses to play another one from that same spot, that player IS still the farthest of all players.

[Halebopp]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Not to mention that if a player hitting their ball into a pond from the fairway chooses to play another one from that same spot, that player IS still the farthest of all players.

 

The order of play is determined by the location of the original ball, even when the player has already decided to take relief.

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, Halebopp said:

The order of play is determined by the location of the original ball, even when the player has already decided to take relief.

 

Yes, but in a stroke play tournament, if a player is going to take stroke and distance or even back-on-a-line or something, and since there's no penalty for playing out of order (especially if it's for pace of play), it's commonly done.

 

Just not on the tee, despite what one person has said. 😄 

[Bonneville85308]

The people I play with tend to play quick "ready golf" and always carry a second ball in their pocket. I've found it fastest for the person who just hit the shot and is already standing in position to just bend over and tee up another rather than stepping away and waiting until everyone else goes. The disclaimer is that I don't play in tournaments.

[antip]

9 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

The order of play is determined by the location of the original ball, even when the player has already decided to take relief.

True, but if you've splashed it 200m away and lateral and BOL are poor options and the rest of the group are a long way forward ..... 

[Mr. Bean]

14 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

The order of play is determined by the location of the original ball, even when the player has already decided to take relief.

 

That is the letter of the law but it would be enormously impractical to let the other players putt their first putts on the green and only then let the "last" guy to hit their ball.

[rogolf]

It's important in match play.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, rogolf said:

It's important in match play.

 

It can be.

 

However, if a player is hitting their 4th from 200 meters and the opponent is on the green lying 2 the order of play becomes way less important.

[Halebopp]

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

That is the letter of the law but it would be enormously impractical to let the other players putt their first putts on the green and only then let the "last" guy to hit their ball.

 

Yes, it could be. My reply was merely about the letter of the law.

[antip]

5 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

It can be.

 

However, if a player is hitting their 4th from 200 meters and the opponent is on the green lying 2 the order of play becomes way less important.

Yes, and they can agree to play out of order to save time.

[Imp]

On 1/24/2024 at 3:33 AM, Mr. Bean said:

 

Should equals a recommendation, it is not equal to must. If the Rule would say must then there would be a penalty if not followed. In this case there is no penalty, although a player just might (not equal to "will") find him/her carrying a reputation of an inconciderate person.

 

Afa ready golf is concerned it is rather customary to ask whether one may play out of order and it is extremely customary that a permission is granted. In the OP type of case if the player would hit also the 2nd ball into a pond the others might say "take a breath, Bob, and let us hit a few balls before you try again".

 

!= means "not equal".

[sui generis]

1 hour ago, Imp said:

 

!= means "not equal".

 

≠

[iacas]

2 hours ago, sui generis said:

≠

 

!= is often what's used in software development. And I feel bad for PC owners who often don't know how to type £ or ø or ≠ or ü or whatever.

[Augster]

= is equal

 

<> is not equal. 
 

I’m glad I could help. 

[iacas]

It's more often ==.

 

= is often an assignment, not a test.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

On 1/22/2024 at 6:20 PM, sui generis said:

 

Well, I always have a second ball in my back pocket. It sports similar Sharpie dots as the ball I'm playing but always has a different number.

This is me being dumb, but I never thought of doing it this way before.  But this makes a ton of sense.  Thanks! 

 

I see why, and though it's out of order, shouldn't it be faster to do it this way?

[Mr. Bean]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

 

!= is often what's used in software development. And I feel bad for PC owners who often don't know how to type £ or ø or ≠ or ü or whatever.

 

ASCII codes are rather useful for special characters, such as °, ±, ², ³ and µ.

[deadsolid...shank]

On 1/23/2024 at 2:50 PM, Hawkeye77 said:

I'll borrow a ball, lol, no way I'm hitting another one of mine out!

I’d say, “I saw that last swing, I’m not giving you a ball”!😂

[st1800e]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

ASCII codes are rather useful for special characters, such as °, ±, ², ³ and µ.

Pretty good thread Jack, maybe in the top 5 of all time…

[iacas]

7 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

ASCII codes are rather useful for special characters, such as °, ±, ², ³ and µ.

 

They're tougher to type on Windows is all I'm saying.

 

And… ≠ == !=. 😄 

[betarhoalphadelta]

22 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

≠

 

19 hours ago, iacas said:

 

!= is often what's used in software development. And I feel bad for PC owners who often don't know how to type £ or ø or ≠ or ü or whatever.

And in code, you usually only use the original set of characters from the original 256-character ASCII set, which doesn't contain the not equal sign. 

 

 

[Imp]

Pedantry is alive and well here, and I love it! I do software QA, and have to come up with weird tests just to be sure the software works, when someone does the unexpected, and expected. 

 

I should have said " != is one representation of 'not equal'. " Mea culpa. 

Edited January 28 by Imp

[Newby]

14 hours ago, Imp said:

Pedantry is alive and well here, and I love it! I do software QA, and have to come up with weird tests just to be sure the software works, when someone does the unexpected, and expected. 

 

I should have said " != is one representation of 'not equal'. " Mea culpa. 

Of course all discussions about golf rules involves pedantry