The Players Championship 2024 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***)

[bscinstnct]

28 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

 

I’m not going to scratch the us/them thing going on, but to pretend Rahm isn’t at least #2 is hyperbole.

 

He def #2

 

😬

 

🤣

[Fairways_and_Greens]

8 minutes ago, ike31197 said:

Keeping it real, I'm a huge Scottie fan.  Let's not get it twisted, he's not Tiger, not yet, but he is doing Tiger things early in his career.  And Tiger wasn't ever really a chaser.  He was a front runner.  He was a closer, maybe the best of all time.  Certainly top 2.  They're a little different in that way, but hearing the way other pros talk about Scottie reminds me of how Tiger was spoken of in his prime.  The intimidation factor of someone that strikes the ball the way Scottie does is off the charts.  What Scottie did on this course, in the final round after being injured in Round 2, was just so damn impressive.  I can't wait to see what the future holds for this guy. 

 

People think he's dull, whatever, I'm perfectly fine with that.  I don't see dull, I see a professional.  A true competitor in every way that wants to win more than anyone, but understands it's just a game.  Maybe this is why he can perform so well under pressure while others wilt.  Golf does not seem like something that's the most important thing in his life, even if he's supremely talented and by all accounts an extremely hard worker at his craft.  Money doesn't seem important to him, even if what he's doing is making him insanely rich.  Professional sports could use more role models like him.

 

I love his unique swing. People worry it's unsustainable, but I see it differently.  His impact position is near perfect.  His consistency is off the charts.  His hands are the best in the business.  I'm just so impressed with what he does.  The squeaky sliding feet?  Look at it another way.  It's all happening after impact.  My guess is it all takes pressure off his back and body and it can be maintained/continued much longer than people think.  Before Tiger when the golf swing became so over analyzed, robotic and copied, look at some of the swings back then.  They were all over the map, but they were still extremely consistent.  Those guys had staying power, and I think Scottie will as well.  I really hope he ushers in a new era for golf where swings become unique again.  Every body is different.  We all move differently. Golf is about putting the middle of the club on the ball every time under pressure.  It seems like Scottie will excel at that for a very long time.  

Tiger was the best iron player at his peak. Scotty is right there. 
 

On the occasion he misses a green, Scotty might also be the world’s best chipper. 

Scotty has talked about how his swing theory is more about being able to react as an athlete mid-swing if something is off vs having a repetitive swing. Time will tell what is a more sustainable model. 

 

[ike31197]

9 minutes ago, Fairways_and_Greens said:

Tiger was the best iron player at his peak. Scotty is right there. 
 

On the occasion he misses a green, Scotty might also be the world’s best chipper. 

Scotty has talked about how his swing theory is more about being able to react as an athlete mid-swing if something is off vs having a repetitive swing. Time will tell what is a more sustainable model. 

 

True on Scottie's chipping.  It's off the charts good.  Tiger's putting was his bailout.  Scottie's game around the green is what allows him to get up and down so often.  Tiger was burying so many 10-15 footers for par during his wins, he seemed to make more long pars than birdies.  If he had a big putt for part to keep momentum, he never seemed to miss.  Amazing putter.  Scottie just puts himself in tap in range.  It's really fun to watch.  

One note on different swing models and what is sustainable, Tiger may be the only great robotic golfer I can remember that really stood the test of time.  Most golfers that try to copy the perfect swing that looks great in slow motion video might have some nice 1-3 year runs, but they all fade.  It's just so hard, if not impossible, for the average or even elite level golfer to make the same swing time in and time out with conditions and feel changing so much over the course of a round, a weekend, or even months/years.    

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, ike31197 said:

True on Scottie's chipping.  It's off the charts good.  Tiger's putting was his bailout.  Scottie's game around the green is what allows him to get up and down so often.  Tiger was burying so many 10-15 footers for par during his wins, he seemed to make more long pars than birdies.  If he had a big putt for part to keep momentum, he never seemed to miss.  Amazing putter.  Scottie just puts himself in tap in range.  It's really fun to watch.  

One note on different swing models and what is sustainable, Tiger may be the only great robotic golfer I can remember that really stood the test of time.  Most golfers that try to copy the perfect swing that looks great in slow motion video might have some nice 1-3 year runs, but they all fade.  It's just so hard, if not impossible, for the average or even elite level golfer to make the same swing time in and time out with conditions and feel changing so much over the course of a round, a weekend, or even months/years.    

Tiger also could not find fairways with driver off the tee for long stretches of his career.  3 metal and 2 iron helped him at times, but scheffler is orders of magnitudes more consistent off the tee than woods.  
 

 

[PedronNiall]

58 minutes ago, ike31197 said:

Keeping it real, I'm a huge Scottie fan.  Let's not get it twisted, he's not Tiger, not yet, but he is doing Tiger things early in his career.  And Tiger wasn't ever really a chaser.  He was a front runner.  He was a closer, maybe the best of all time.  Certainly top 2.  They're a little different in that way, but hearing the way other pros talk about Scottie reminds me of how Tiger was spoken of in his prime.  The intimidation factor of someone that strikes the ball the way Scottie does is off the charts.  What Scottie did on this course, in the final round after being injured in Round 2, was just so damn impressive.  I can't wait to see what the future holds for this guy. 

 

People think he's dull, whatever, I'm perfectly fine with that.  I don't see dull, I see a professional.  A true competitor in every way that wants to win more than anyone, but understands it's just a game.  Maybe this is why he can perform so well under pressure while others wilt.  Golf does not seem like something that's the most important thing in his life, even if he's supremely talented and by all accounts an extremely hard worker at his craft.  Money doesn't seem important to him, even if what he's doing is making him insanely rich.  Professional sports could use more role models like him.

 

I love his unique swing. People worry it's unsustainable, but I see it differently.  His impact position is near perfect.  His consistency is off the charts.  His hands are the best in the business.  I'm just so impressed with what he does.  The squeaky sliding feet?  Look at it another way.  It's all happening after impact.  My guess is it all takes pressure off his back and body and it can be maintained/continued much longer than people think.  Before Tiger when the golf swing became so over analyzed, robotic and copied, look at some of the swings back then.  They were all over the map, but they were still extremely consistent.  Those guys had staying power, and I think Scottie will as well.  I really hope he ushers in a new era for golf where swings become unique again.  Every body is different.  We all move differently. Golf is about putting the middle of the club on the ball every time under pressure.  It seems like Scottie will excel at that for a very long time.  

 

@Fairways_and_Greens pretty much made the point. Scottie's numbers already match Tiger at his best, and he only needs mediocre putting to keep himself in contention given that. Statically, he is the new Tiger.

 

As to him not leading the way Tiger of old did, the game has far, far more parity on all levels than it did when Tiger emerged. Tiger came in at a time when fitness was a joke and every player didn't have the luxury of 3D capture, the Konica Minolta BizHub Swingvision Camera, etc. He began to dominate physically and mentally weaker competition and he created an aura that made everyone afraid once he had the 54-hole lead. Enter Y.E. Yang and that aura began to fade. Enter a modern era where everyone on top now grew up imagining themselves as Tiger. Pair that kind of mindset with unprecedented analytics as to how to get it done and Scottie is facing far stronger fields than Tiger did only 20ish years ago. 

 

Despite that, Scottie got it done with four missing arms and a bad kneecap over the weekend. If he stays healthy then in theory he does Tiger-level things despite his chill demeanor. He's also doing it with a swing that looks to be far easier on his body than what peak Tiger used, which bodes well for him getting it done over a longer span should be choose to. 

[Titleist99]

50 years of this tournament and this is the first back to back winner......

 

Way to go Scottie Scheffler.

[ike31197]

8 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Tiger also could not find fairways with driver off the tee for long stretches of his career.  3 metal and 2 iron helped him at times, but scheffler is orders of magnitudes more consistent off the tee than woods.  
 

 

Off the tee with a driver, yes.  But once Tiger started playing less than driver he went on an epic run.  I do agree though, Scottie's consistency with his driver, being able to work it both ways, finding almost every fairway while literally swinging out of his shoes is something to behold.  He's not bunting anything out there, and his long iron 3/5 wood game has been every bit as good as Tiger's was.  Hard to compare someone so early in his career to the best or 2nd best of all time, but Scottie has been historically great for a short period of time and it's really fun to watch. 

[Titleist99]

4 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

@Fairways_and_Greens pretty much made the point. Scottie's numbers already match Tiger at his best, and he only needs mediocre putting to keep himself in contention given that. Statically, he is the new Tiger.

 

As to him not leading the way Tiger of old did, the game has far, far more parity on all levels than it did when Tiger emerged. Tiger came in at a time when fitness was a joke and every player didn't have the luxury of 3D capture, the Konica Minolta BizHub Swingvision Camera, etc. He began to dominate physically and mentally weaker competition and he created an aura that made everyone afraid once he had the 54-hole lead. Enter Y.E. Yang and that aura began to fade. Enter a modern era where everyone on top now grew up imagining themselves as Tiger. Pair that kind of mindset with unprecedented analytics as to how to get it done and Scottie is facing far stronger fields than Tiger did only 20ish years ago. 

 

Despite that, Scottie got it done with four missing arms and a bad kneecap over the weekend. If he stays healthy then in theory he does Tiger-level things despite his chill demeanor. He's also doing it with a swing that looks to be far easier on his body than what peak Tiger used, which bodes well for him getting it done over a longer span should be choose to. 

Yeah, that's if he doesn't leave the tour after being offered a Billion dollars by the competing tour. Look for that if he wins a major this year.🙂

[ike31197]

5 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

@Fairways_and_Greens pretty much made the point. Scottie's numbers already match Tiger at his best, and he only needs mediocre putting to keep himself in contention given that. Statically, he is the new Tiger.

 

As to him not leading the way Tiger of old did, the game has far, far more parity on all levels than it did when Tiger emerged. Tiger came in at a time when fitness was a joke and every player didn't have the luxury of 3D capture, the Konica Minolta BizHub Swingvision Camera, etc. He began to dominate physically and mentally weaker competition and he created an aura that made everyone afraid once he had the 54-hole lead. Enter Y.E. Yang and that aura began to fade. Enter a modern era where everyone on top now grew up imagining themselves as Tiger. Pair that kind of mindset with unprecedented analytics as to how to get it done and Scottie is facing far stronger fields than Tiger did only 20ish years ago. 

 

Despite that, Scottie got it done with four missing arms and a bad kneecap over the weekend. If he stays healthy then in theory he does Tiger-level things despite his chill demeanor. He's also doing it with a swing that looks to be far easier on his body than what peak Tiger used, which bodes well for him getting it done over a longer span should be choose to. 

That's kind of my point though.  IMHO golfers of today are much more mentally weak than they used to be.  Maybe it's the additional spotlight shining on them.  Maybe it's the over-analyzing of the swings.  Maybe it's the amount of money involved these days.  It's hard to compare eras.  Tiger smashed the guys he was playing against.  Before he came along, no one ever thought there would be another golfer remotely close to Jack.  And it's also not like Tiger didn't have solid competition.  There were a laundry list of elite golfers in his era.  Mickelson may be the most gifted golfer of all time.  Who knows?  But to suggest Tiger was doing what he was doing simply because no one worked out, or had video  back then is unfair to Tiger and the rest of the great golfers he played against.  Maybe those things hurt golfers, who would really knows?  Would Rory still be Rory if he wasn't a superstar that decided to emulate Tiger instead of being a chubby chap from Ireland?  Would John Daly have been Tiger if he slimmed down and took the game seriously?  Who really knows?  

[Titleist99]

I still can't believe that 360 lip out by Wyndham Clark......WOW!

[PracticeSwinger]

Few comments out of left field :

• Thank god Homa's shot was a few inches above the guy's head or else we're having a completely different discussion this morning with a casualty at the tourney;
• Ludwig A.I.berg will be a tough cookie for a while, machine;
• Yesterday was probably the best argument against a shotgun final round - imagine Scottie finishing up on hole #3 while other leaders scramble around 17-18-1-2... simultaneaously

[goalie]

15 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I still can't believe that 360 lip out by Wyndham Clark......WOW!

Yeah, that had to hurt, but it looked fast to me the whole way.  There was ZERO chance he was leaving it short.

[Pnwpingi210]

Just now, goalie said:

Yeah, that had to hurt, but it looked fast to me the whole way.  There was ZERO chance he was leaving it short.

Same here I thought I was rolling 6-8 past.  

[GungHoGolf]

17 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I still can't believe that 360 lip out by Wyndham Clark......WOW!

Yeah, it was brutal. Stopped him mid-fist pump.

Edited March 18 by GungHoGolf

[mosesgolf]

40 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

@Fairways_and_Greens pretty much made the point. Scottie's numbers already match Tiger at his best, and he only needs mediocre putting to keep himself in contention given that. Statically, he is the new Tiger.

 

As to him not leading the way Tiger of old did, the game has far, far more parity on all levels than it did when Tiger emerged. Tiger came in at a time when fitness was a joke and every player didn't have the luxury of 3D capture, the Konica Minolta BizHub Swingvision Camera, etc. He began to dominate physically and mentally weaker competition and he created an aura that made everyone afraid once he had the 54-hole lead. Enter Y.E. Yang and that aura began to fade. Enter a modern era where everyone on top now grew up imagining themselves as Tiger. Pair that kind of mindset with unprecedented analytics as to how to get it done and Scottie is facing far stronger fields than Tiger did only 20ish years ago. 

 

Despite that, Scottie got it done with four missing arms and a bad kneecap over the weekend. If he stays healthy then in theory he does Tiger-level things despite his chill demeanor. He's also doing it with a swing that looks to be far easier on his body than what peak Tiger used, which bodes well for him getting it done over a longer span should be choose to. 

Then how does one explain late 2018 when he came in 2nd at PGA to BK, came close to winning the Open, won the 2018 Tour Championship, won 2019 Masters, and dominated at the ZOZO?  Imo at Tiger’s best and even when he is not his best Tiger dominates. 

[TiScape]

41 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

@Fairways_and_Greens pretty much made the point. Scottie's numbers already match Tiger at his best, and he only needs mediocre putting to keep himself in contention given that. Statically, he is the new Tiger.

 

As to him not leading the way Tiger of old did, the game has far, far more parity on all levels than it did when Tiger emerged. Tiger came in at a time when fitness was a joke and every player didn't have the luxury of 3D capture, the Konica Minolta BizHub Swingvision Camera, etc. He began to dominate physically and mentally weaker competition and he created an aura that made everyone afraid once he had the 54-hole lead. Enter Y.E. Yang and that aura began to fade. Enter a modern era where everyone on top now grew up imagining themselves as Tiger. Pair that kind of mindset with unprecedented analytics as to how to get it done and Scottie is facing far stronger fields than Tiger did only 20ish years ago. 

 

Despite that, Scottie got it done with four missing arms and a bad kneecap over the weekend. If he stays healthy then in theory he does Tiger-level things despite his chill demeanor. He's also doing it with a swing that looks to be far easier on his body than what peak Tiger used, which bodes well for him getting it done over a longer span should be choose to. 

I’m just happy I no longer have to look at it as a bad swing when I can’t hold my finish.

 

As a selfish person, at the end of the day the real question is always. ‘How does this affect ME”? 😊

[goalie]

People too young to have watched "prime" Tiger can't really understand the complete and utter dominance he displayed.  It was unreal.  

[TiScape]

3 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

180, but still… it was brutal.

I had it at 184°. But yeah, brutal.

[GungHoGolf]

2 minutes ago, TiScape said:

I had it at 184°. But yeah, brutal.

I edited the 180 out of my post, as I realized the ball did go around the lip almost 360 degrees. Guess it depends on how you define rotation in a lip out lol. 

[TiScape]

9 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

Yeah, it was brutal. Stopped him mid-fist pump.

From semi-fist pump to chump! 
 

 

*obviously he’s no chump. It just reminded me of the ol’ sayin’ ‘from bird to turd’. 

[TiScape]

Obviously Clark’s psychologist has helped him immensely. That said, it doesn’t take a Sigmund Freud to see he’s still mentally vulnerable out there. And Xander might wanna make a call as well. 

That is all for GWRX arm chair psychology for now. 

[ike31197]

48 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I still can't believe that 360 lip out by Wyndham Clark......WOW!

If you believed in karma...if...

[ike31197]

30 minutes ago, goalie said:

People too young to have watched "prime" Tiger can't really understand the complete and utter dominance he displayed.  It was unreal.  

I've been watching golf since around 1985.   I was young then, but my dad made sure to have golf on tv whenever it was broadcast.  I saw Jack's last Masters live.  I didn't understand the importance then.  What Tiger did to the field was unbelievably epic.  He broke golfers.  Players like David Duval were no joke.  Tiger broke him mentally, just he did to numerous elite talents.  Phil might have 20 majors if not for Tiger's shear dominance.  Unbelievable stuff. 

 

I liken the Tiger hate it to the youngsters that say Lebron is better than Jordan.  It's not even close.  Kobe was the most similar player to Jordan I've ever seen, and Kobe did it for a long time. 

 

Scottie, so far, is the closest thing to Tiger we've seen since Tiger got caught getting busy with diner trash.  Outside of injury, I don't know what slows him down.  Let's see how he handles fatherhood I guess.  Anyone that has children knows how it changes everything about you, if you're a good father of course.  If anyone can handle that along with the pressures of competitive golf, I believe Scottie can do it.  He just seems so grounded and keeps everything in perspective.  I hope it lasts.  Like I said, we really need more role models like him.      

[Duct Tape]

41 minutes ago, goalie said:

People too young to have watched "prime" Tiger can't really understand the complete and utter dominance he displayed.  It was unreal.  

Do we have any of “those” people here?  C’mon now, fess up……

 

This is the washed up curmudgeons forum.  🤓

[ike31197]

20 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Obviously Clark’s psychologist has helped him immensely. That said, it doesn’t take a Sigmund Freud to see he’s still mentally vulnerable out there. And Xander might wanna make a call as well. 

That is all for GWRX arm chair psychology for now. 

I feel bad for Xander.  You can see the pressure just crush him every time he has a chance in the biggest of moments.   He has all the talent in the world.  Unbelievably good golfer and seems like a good kid.  I was rooting for Scottie yesterday, but would have had no problem if Xander found a way to win.  Xander just doesn't no how to close and the longer it goes the worse it gets.  The missed putt on 17 was hard to watch.  You just knew it was coming.    

 

Clark seems like a little child stuck in a man's body.  HIs mom passing affecting him more than we can know.  It's sad.  He looks like he's close to tears on the course at times.  He needs some tough love, not some shrink trying to build him up.  He quite obviously has talent on par with anyone.  Someone needs to tell him to grow up before it's too late because it's leaking into other aspects of his game.  Throwing his caddie under the bus, questionable tactics on the course, slow play, etc.      

[aenemated]

2 hours ago, ike31197 said:

It's all happening after impact.  My guess is it all takes pressure off his back and body and it can be maintained/continued much longer than people think.

 

Completely agree. Not the same thing but very much reminds me of the free motion Phil's always had. 

[TiScape]

16 minutes ago, ike31197 said:

I feel bad for Xander.  You can see the pressure just crush him every time he has a chance in the biggest of moments.   He has all the talent in the world.  Unbelievably good golfer and seems like a good kid.  I was rooting for Scottie yesterday, but would have had no problem if Xander found a way to win.  Xander just doesn't no how to close and the longer it goes the worse it gets.  The missed putt on 17 was hard to watch.  You just knew it was coming.    

 

Clark seems like a little child stuck in a man's body.  HIs mom passing affecting him more than we can know.  It's sad.  He looks like he's close to tears on the course at times.  He needs some tough love, not some shrink trying to build him up.  He quite obviously has talent on par with anyone.  Someone needs to tell him to grow up before it's too late because it's leaking into other aspects of his game.  Throwing his caddie under the bus, questionable tactics on the course, slow play, etc.      

Yup. N Scottie just goes about it out there like Gomer Pyle out there playin’ a casual Tuesday round w/the boys. Dude is different. 

Edited March 18 by TiScape

[ike31197]

6 minutes ago, TiScape said:

Yup. N Scottie just goes about it out there like Gomer Pyle out there playin’ a casual Tuesday round w/the boys. Dude is different. 

LOL, I'm about as big of a Scottie fan as there is but I can't help but laugh at that comparison.  Damn... 🙂

[ike31197]

17 minutes ago, aenemated said:

 

Completely agree. Not the same thing but very much reminds me of the free motion Phil's always had. 

True.  Look at all the robotic golfers with lower back injuries at early ages.  They're in better physical condition than almost anyone has ever been in the sport but they're all tearing up their lower backs while golfers like Phil seemingly escape this for their entire careers.  The list of major level elite golfers who have torn up their lower backs in the modern era is honestly too long to list.  Reminds me a lot of baseball and the increase in pitcher elbow injuries.  People make unnatural moves and expect the body to just accept it.  The body won't, it will give up.  Hopefully the up and comers start to figure this out.  

 

On another note, I know it's a completely different era and different golfer, but Gary Player is another that proved it really doesn't matter what happens after contact.  Arnie is another.  All of the modern instructors would cringe at the way Arnie held onto his release.  Looked so amateurish, but he was so powerful and consistent.  And Gary's walkthrough?  Very Scottie-esque in the way he would get 100% of his weight onto his left side.  Less powerful swing, of course, but the concept is the same and really takes pressure off your body while encouraging proper shift.  

 

 

 

 

 

[PedronNiall]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

Then how does one explain late 2018 when he came in 2nd at PGA to BK, came close to winning the Open, won the 2018 Tour Championship, won 2019 Masters, and dominated at the ZOZO?  Imo at Tiger’s best and even when he is not his best Tiger dominates. 

 

The players still were not afraid of him at that point like they were back at his best. You're free to watch interviews and hear the difference of how in awe everyone was of him back in the early 2000s compared to closing in on 2020. In the latter the young guns 100% think they can hang with him. Koepka Yanged him without much trepidation that I could see. The water ball on 15 at The Masters two years prior may have done him in fully, but nothing about how the rest of the field played showed they were ready to crumble just because Tiger was lurking. 

 

I'm sorry, but he didn't dominate The 2019 Masters, the leaders wilted. Dominant performances were those where he lead through 54 and no one would dare put up a fight or where he closed the door even if they did. Losing in the PGA is not dominance and the Zozo is certainly not a tournament of note because it carries no weight other than the dollars that come with it and one more win on the record. 

 

You're not going to convince me without compelling evidence that 2018-19 Tiger invoked anything nearing the awe of early 2000s Tiger. Show me the pre-round interviews where those in the field at the top on Sunday were afraid because Tiger was leading or lurking. Better yet, show me Tiger's closeout rate in the later years compared to the 2000-2008 run and explain how you'd categorize him as just as dominant.