Need Advice on Private Club Membership

[dj300821]

Hi, 

 

I am looking into two private clubs in my area, and was wondering if members could give advice based on their past experiences. I am single, no kids, and live in a mid-sized southern city that has year round golf, and has a relatively lower cost of living compared to the rest of the US. I am around scratch, and am mainly interested in the golf and practice facilities, and maybe the bar/restaurant for after-round drinks or food. I am really not interested in the pool, tennis courts, kid-friendly activities, etc. Both courses are approximately 15 minutes from my house. I am able to play all weekend, and probably once or twice during the week. The public courses in the area are either cheap but in poor condition, exorbitantly expensive ($150-$250/round), or just poor layouts. Which one would you choose?

 

Club #1: Initiation: $35k (paid in full), Dues: $800/month (all inclusive of carts and range, no F&B minimums, no assessments). Golf club only (no pool, tennis, etc.). Two courses, and one of them is the best or second best course in the metro area with top notch practice facilities and two great short game areas. One course holds a larger PGA Tour event each year. The initiation is the killer here (I have the savings, but it would leave me with a little less buffer in the bank), but the dues are fairly reasonable for the two courses and practice facilities. Both courses in great condition. 

 

Club #2: Initiation: 5k (paid in full), Dues: $925/month (includes monthly cart plan and range, no F&B minimums, no assessments). Full scale country club with pool, tennis, pickle ball, 2 restaurants, fitness center, the whole nine yards. Two courses, but one of the courses I can only play after noon (and not on Saturdays) for the first 4 years, the other course no restrictions. I will probably never use the tennis/pickleball, and rarely use the pool and fitness center (due to distance from home). Both courses are currently in great condition, but both probably a level or two below Club #1 (they periodically weave through a neighborhood, which I don't like). Solid range and putting/chipping green, but definitely not as good as Club #1. 

 

The break even point for these two is 15-20 years, meaning Club #1 actually becomes a better deal after 15 years or so, due to the higher initiation, but lower dues. I plan on settling down in this area and not moving anytime soon. Both the initiation prices are non-negotiable, I have tried to negotiate, but they are not budging. 

[vandyfan]

10 minutes ago, dj300821 said:

I am single, no kids,

 

Are you expecting to always not have kids? I guess I ask because that will change the calculus of this VERY quickly. If you are like 28 years old and there is a high likelihood you get married and subsequently have children, it is going to be hard to sell the GOLF ONLY club to your (future) wife (I would guess unless she is excessively reasonable). 

 

If you are likely always going to be single or not have kids, I would go for the golf only. 

Edited March 18 by vandyfan

[Dancin]

Forget about break even periods. The initiation is something you pay and forget about. Either you can handle the cost or not. You should ask club 1 if they will let you spread it out over a number of years as most are usually willing to do that; especially for younger members.

 

100% choose the golf only club if you can afford it. If all you care about is golf it will drive you nuts watching club 2 blow money on things like flowers, new lawn chairs for the pool, new furniture for the entryway etc...

[Hawkeye77]

Don’t think there is a known “most” when it comes to what private clubs across the country will do in terms of paying initiation fee in installments.  Sounds like the OP knows the options. 
 

If you are going to be single for the foreseeable future and looking at 3 years as a window, for example, are comfortable with basically $1800 a month for golf and give up whatever ever else that could buy or return on what it could earn - enjoy. It’s your life! Since you asked - when I was younger I’d have never put that much money into a golf membership. I’d have to live at the course to make it start to seem useful. Never needed to play “the” course. But, just me. 

[Bonneville85308]

If there is a low possibility you will need to relocate outside of the area anytime soon for work, and you are committed to the childfree lifestyle, I'd go with #1 for sure if I were in your shoes. 

 

I'd also want to know how many golf members each club has and what the tee sheet looks like on a typical day before making a decision.

 

I wouldn't make break-even calculations based on dues/initiation since the dues are pretty close now, and a few unforeseen assessments could blow that whole calculation out of the water over the long term.

[Avidswampthing66]

2 hours ago, dj300821 said:

Hi, 

 

I am looking into two private clubs in my area, and was wondering if members could give advice based on their past experiences. I am single, no kids, and live in a mid-sized southern city that has year round golf, and has a relatively lower cost of living compared to the rest of the US. I am around scratch, and am mainly interested in the golf and practice facilities, and maybe the bar/restaurant for after-round drinks or food. I am really not interested in the pool, tennis courts, kid-friendly activities, etc. Both courses are approximately 15 minutes from my house. I am able to play all weekend, and probably once or twice during the week. The public courses in the area are either cheap but in poor condition, exorbitantly expensive ($150-$250/round), or just poor layouts. Which one would you choose?

 

Club #1: Initiation: $35k (paid in full), Dues: $800/month (all inclusive of carts and range, no F&B minimums, no assessments). Golf club only (no pool, tennis, etc.). Two courses, and one of them is the best or second best course in the metro area with top notch practice facilities and two great short game areas. One course holds a larger PGA Tour event each year. The initiation is the killer here (I have the savings, but it would leave me with a little less buffer in the bank), but the dues are fairly reasonable for the two courses and practice facilities. Both courses in great condition. 

 

Club #2: Initiation: 5k (paid in full), Dues: $925/month (includes monthly cart plan and range, no F&B minimums, no assessments). Full scale country club with pool, tennis, pickle ball, 2 restaurants, fitness center, the whole nine yards. Two courses, but one of the courses I can only play after noon (and not on Saturdays) for the first 4 years, the other course no restrictions. I will probably never use the tennis/pickleball, and rarely use the pool and fitness center (due to distance from home). Both courses are currently in great condition, but both probably a level or two below Club #1 (they periodically weave through a neighborhood, which I don't like). Solid range and putting/chipping green, but definitely not as good as Club #1. 

 

The break even point for these two is 15-20 years, meaning Club #1 actually becomes a better deal after 15 years or so, due to the higher initiation, but lower dues. I plan on settling down in this area and not moving anytime soon. Both the initiation prices are non-negotiable, I have tried to negotiate, but they are not budging. 

I can tell from your post that you really want to join Club #1.  YOLO and if you are staying in the area it will balance out.

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, dj300821 said:

Hi, 

 

I am looking into two private clubs in my area, and was wondering if members could give advice based on their past experiences. I am single, no kids, and live in a mid-sized southern city that has year round golf, and has a relatively lower cost of living compared to the rest of the US. I am around scratch, and am mainly interested in the golf and practice facilities, and maybe the bar/restaurant for after-round drinks or food. I am really not interested in the pool, tennis courts, kid-friendly activities, etc. Both courses are approximately 15 minutes from my house. I am able to play all weekend, and probably once or twice during the week. The public courses in the area are either cheap but in poor condition, exorbitantly expensive ($150-$250/round), or just poor layouts. Which one would you choose?

 

Club #1: Initiation: $35k (paid in full), Dues: $800/month (all inclusive of carts and range, no F&B minimums, no assessments). Golf club only (no pool, tennis, etc.). Two courses, and one of them is the best or second best course in the metro area with top notch practice facilities and two great short game areas. One course holds a larger PGA Tour event each year. The initiation is the killer here (I have the savings, but it would leave me with a little less buffer in the bank), but the dues are fairly reasonable for the two courses and practice facilities. Both courses in great condition. 

 

Club #2: Initiation: 5k (paid in full), Dues: $925/month (includes monthly cart plan and range, no F&B minimums, no assessments). Full scale country club with pool, tennis, pickle ball, 2 restaurants, fitness center, the whole nine yards. Two courses, but one of the courses I can only play after noon (and not on Saturdays) for the first 4 years, the other course no restrictions. I will probably never use the tennis/pickleball, and rarely use the pool and fitness center (due to distance from home). Both courses are currently in great condition, but both probably a level or two below Club #1 (they periodically weave through a neighborhood, which I don't like). Solid range and putting/chipping green, but definitely not as good as Club #1. 

 

The break even point for these two is 15-20 years, meaning Club #1 actually becomes a better deal after 15 years or so, due to the higher initiation, but lower dues. I plan on settling down in this area and not moving anytime soon. Both the initiation prices are non-negotiable, I have tried to negotiate, but they are not budging. 

Long term, if family is in the offing, CC facilities might be the better choice.  Prices are not normally negotiable at clubs with attractive facilities.  Easier to negotiate with golf clubs that have a course, range and Grill room, etc., little more.  Ten plus years on two BOD at equity and benevolent dictator owned.

 

Also, to our surprise, even though our son is grown and married, we found ourselves using other facilities.  Both prices seem very reasonable.  Make sure you look closely at each club's charter, understand the rules, especially if there's a rule regarding guests and what resale as you never know. 

Edited March 19 by Pepperturbo

[GSPeltSlinger]

3 hours ago, dj300821 said:

Hi, 

 

I am looking into two private clubs in my area, and was wondering if members could give advice based on their past experiences. I am single, no kids, and live in a mid-sized southern city that has year round golf, and has a relatively lower cost of living compared to the rest of the US. I am around scratch, and am mainly interested in the golf and practice facilities, and maybe the bar/restaurant for after-round drinks or food. I am really not interested in the pool, tennis courts, kid-friendly activities, etc. Both courses are approximately 15 minutes from my house. I am able to play all weekend, and probably once or twice during the week. The public courses in the area are either cheap but in poor condition, exorbitantly expensive ($150-$250/round), or just poor layouts. Which one would you choose?

 

Club #1: Initiation: $35k (paid in full), Dues: $800/month (all inclusive of carts and range, no F&B minimums, no assessments). Golf club only (no pool, tennis, etc.). Two courses, and one of them is the best or second best course in the metro area with top notch practice facilities and two great short game areas. One course holds a larger PGA Tour event each year. The initiation is the killer here (I have the savings, but it would leave me with a little less buffer in the bank), but the dues are fairly reasonable for the two courses and practice facilities. Both courses in great condition. 

 

Club #2: Initiation: 5k (paid in full), Dues: $925/month (includes monthly cart plan and range, no F&B minimums, no assessments). Full scale country club with pool, tennis, pickle ball, 2 restaurants, fitness center, the whole nine yards. Two courses, but one of the courses I can only play after noon (and not on Saturdays) for the first 4 years, the other course no restrictions. I will probably never use the tennis/pickleball, and rarely use the pool and fitness center (due to distance from home). Both courses are currently in great condition, but both probably a level or two below Club #1 (they periodically weave through a neighborhood, which I don't like). Solid range and putting/chipping green, but definitely not as good as Club #1. 

 

The break even point for these two is 15-20 years, meaning Club #1 actually becomes a better deal after 15 years or so, due to the higher initiation, but lower dues. I plan on settling down in this area and not moving anytime soon. Both the initiation prices are non-negotiable, I have tried to negotiate, but they are not budging. 

This is my opinion… since you are asking.

 

If you are worried about a $35,000 payment leaving you with “less buffer” then you need to go with club #2. 

The point of a club is to have fun and enjoy it. A $1,000 monthly membership payment can become $2,500 real quick when you start adding up food/drinks and guest fees and member guest events.

 

You don’t want to be the guy who joins club #1 and only pays the minimum dues every month because you can’t afford to do it right.

[dj300821]

Great advice, thank you. Excellent points made here. 

 

To clarify a few things:

 

1. Club #1 has a 34k initiation if paid in full up front, or $38k if paid in installments over the next 3 years. 

2. Club #1 monthly dues include two free golf lessons per month with the golf professional. 

3. Neither club is member-owned, so no assessments to members (one is TPC, one is invited clubs). 

4. I am new to the area, so likely will not be hosting any guests, as I don't really know anyone who golfs here. This is part of the reason I am also joining a club, to meet fellow golfers. 

5. I don't drink alcohol (or very minimal), so there is no spending on that, which can get expensive. 

Edited March 19 by dj300821

[Dancin]

Do not join the invited run club if it is actually run/owned by invited and not just an associate club. I doubt it since they rarely have the top club in an area, but that would really suck if club 1 is the invited one. They've changed a little recently after too many of their club members bitched about not being able to get tee times, but their goal is still to maximize revenue which equals too many members and hard to get tee times when you want. TPC also has a much better network of courses to play while traveling; although, you don't get much of a deal at the resort TPC courses (the stay and play resort prices usually beat/match the TPC member rates according to a member I know although you can at least play the resort courses without staying on site). The private TPC ones let you on for cart fee I believe though.

Edited March 19 by Dancin

[CCTxGolf]

Oh gosh here we go. Here comes the TPC vs Invited Clubs, are they even really clubs, corporate clubs, etc. arguments. 
 

Edit: Damn I was about 3 minutes to late.

 

Also, Please don’t say semi-private or there might be some serious cat fights. 😂 

Edited March 19 by CCTxGolf

[dj300821]

The expensive one is TPC, cheaper one is invited clubs. No cat fights please 🤪

Edited March 19 by dj300821

[Dancin]

Invited shouldn't even be in the conversation from all the people I know that quit invited run clubs in disgust. Again this is only if invited owns and runs it. There are clubs that are independent that are on the invited network.

[CCTxGolf]

I’m stumped on the two course private TPC and the two course Invited Clubs in the same city. 
 

My original guess was TPC San Antonio and Fair Oaks but that doesn’t add up.

Edited March 19 by CCTxGolf

[Locked]

$800/month includes golf lessons and 2 decent courses???  Geez thats crazy.  

 

 

The one thing you are missing about the more family oriented club is the chance to take girls (or guys ) on dates to play pickleball or tennis then grab a bite at a private club.    I've watched some younger guys at my club CRUSH it with this move 🙂 

 

I know nothing about "invited" clubs though... 

 

 

[ND2005]

Leaving out TPC and Invited was some key info ha. 

[david.c.w]

If you can swing the $35k, and dont plan to move out of your city, do it.  You will be happier in the long run.  If you decide to get married and have kids the $35k becomes much harder once you have $3k/month in childcare fees.

 

Also, if $35k is something you can spend, why are you even thinking about ClubCorp membership (sorry rebranding team)?  

 

ClubCorp is probably good for people who cant drop a big initiation and for those who may only live in a city for a few years and then bounce to somewhere else.

 

The only other thing I would say is that if you do drop the $35k, you are sort of locking yourself into living in that area the rest of your life.  Your friend group will slowly evolve to members, your social calendar will slowly evolve into those events, you will slowly start to only use that gym, etc.  If you plan to move away or even to a different part of town, don't spend the money yet.  Wait until you have deep roots somewhere and then drop the $$$.

 

 

 

 

[vallygolf]

If you are looking at playing 2-4 times a week. 100% go with the club that has two courses.  TPC properties with two courses usually reserve one per day for members only, creating a much less crowded experience at those sites.  Im one who doesnt worry much about spending the 35K initiation, even if you do move on in 5-7 years.  We pay way more for cars that we keep only 3-4 years.  I enjoy good golf much more than a good car.  You can never make golf a wise investment proposition, but it really can lend itself to a fulfilled quality of life.

Edited March 19 by vallygolf

[Roody]

My experience in joining a private club is you may think going in that "I won't use this, I won't use that, so I don't need it". Yeah, that tends to change quickly once you start making friends and are exposed to it. I thought I was that guy too, and I also thought that my wife would barely use things herself. We're very active members, and it didn't take long. 

My point is at least consider that you might end up using the other amenities, especially if you get married and/or have kids. 

Of the two options above I'd probably choose option 2 myself. Less initiation, more amenities, and two courses. But just my two cents. 

[steveisdope]

Have you inquired about the disruptions to course/facilities ahead of, during and post PGA event for club 1? Not being able to play one of the courses for X month(s) may end up swinging you the other way. It's great to say you have an event at your club but it's often a PITA for the membership. 

[Abh159]

23 minutes ago, steveisdope said:

Have you inquired about the disruptions to course/facilities ahead of, during and post PGA event for club 1? Not being able to play one of the courses for X month(s) may end up swinging you the other way. It's great to say you have an event at your club but it's often a PITA for the membership. 

 

This is a good point most people don't consider. 

 

A course I played somewhat frequently growing up hosted an annual PGA Tour event. They would close the course to member play 2 weeks before, the week of (obviously), and 1-2 weeks after. That was a solid month during prime season when members didn't have access to their own golf course, and after about 20 years of hosting the membership finally got fed up and decided to vote in favor of not renewing the contract. 

 

[Drwoods2017]

Why not just list the clubs so people who are members can give you better insight about each of them?

[ChrisSP]

17 hours ago, dj300821 said:

Great advice, thank you. Excellent points made here. 

 

To clarify a few things:

 

1. Club #1 has a 34k initiation if paid in full up front, or $38k if paid in installments over the next 3 years. 

2. Club #1 monthly dues include two free golf lessons per month with the golf professional. 

3. Neither club is member-owned, so no assessments to members (one is TPC, one is invited clubs). 

 

If you're wise, you'll take a hard pass on the Invited club. 

[DonatelloNobodie]

Thoughts:

 

$150-$250 may seem exorbitantly expensive, but compare that to your cost per round at the private clubs.  Include the initiation fee in that comparison.  How many rounds do you play in a year?

 

Consider any initiation fee as money gone.  If you relocate, you lose.  ‘Refundable’ initiation usually isn’t.  Read the fine print.

 

Your fees will pay for things that you don’t use or need.  Fitness center, pool, tennis, kid stuff, fancy restaurant,,,,

 

Do the publics offer season passes? ( A high end public near me charges $150/round, but has a season pass for $4500.)

 

What do you want for a regular group of playing partners, or whom do you play with regularly?  It takes more time to find golf buddies at publics, but can be done.  If you have a regular group now, you’ll lose them if you go private.

 

That said, if you play a lot of rounds (75+) and want the private experience, go for it.
 

Edited March 20 by DonatelloNobodie

[tw422]

Another thing to think about....what could that $35k initiation be worth 10-15-20 yrs from now?  Granted, I know we all want to enjoy life and even with inflation....but man, when I think about dropping $35k, especially for someone in their 20's, I wonder what that could be worth?  $50k, $60k or 70k or more???  Seems like a lot to give up to play golf now considering that money is going to be way more valuable 20 yrs from now.  No judgement but just a different way of thinking about it.  Believe me I would have loved to belong to a private club in my 20's but knowing what I know now I would not do it.  

[st1800e]

Do either of these clubs have a one year trial membership?

[klebs01]

Wow, negative Nancies coming out. Having go to the private side almost a decade ago, I would never go back to public. The season pass isn’t the same. I find a lot of value in the access, pace of play, games and events available at my club. Not going to be there with a season pass. Cost per round doesn’t always pencil out but the quality does. The ability to grab a cart on an empty court on a Saturday afternoon and have the kids play or not, run around if they want, just use the ball washer on every hole cause it’s fun and not bother anyone is worth the price of admission. 
 

that said, I would pass on the club corp club and be skeptical of the tpc club. The corporate clubs have issues with not serving the members. 

[umassgolfer]

I agree with @klebs01 - don't let anyone else tell you how to spend your money, OP. I know it was well intentioned and based on experience.

 

But MY experience was this:

 

At 23 yrs old I joined a private club as a Jr member for a screaming deal (no initiation helped) when I first moved to a new area. It was still a bit of a stretch for me financially even with the deal. Basically lived there on weekends the first season. As time went on, I made more friends who played golf and were not at the club.

 

By the end of my second season it was basically a choice between playing my club for "free" or playing with my friends and paying. They didn't want the drive/guest fees for my club. So, I ended up dropping my membership. I have since moved but have been chasing membership golf since for the reasons noted - availability of tee times, quicker rounds, better conditioning, sense of pride and belonging with the course, etc. It was nothing like buying a season pass at a local course, which would have made tee times a little easier but not necessarily faster rounds or better conditioning.

 

I know this isn't apples to apples with the OP's considerations. Others have made good suggestions - finding out how hard good tee times are to get, how long the course is closed for the TOUR event, thinking about what the next 10 years may hold, etc. But if this is something you want to do and you can afford a spot that checks enough of your boxes, it is a real treat.

[dj300821]

Thank you again everyone. You all bring up valid points on either side of the coin. There are definitely a shortage of public courses in our area, tee sheets are always full, which results in slow play and long rounds. In addition, public courses in my area leave quite a bit to be desired. EVERY course has some sort of issue, or multiple issues, with it. It's either poor conditions, 5-6 hour rounds, no practice facilities, clowns who are drunk and you can hear them 2 holes away yelling, seeing the group in front of you drive back and forth across the fairway 5 times a hole, no decent bar/grill facilities for socializing post-round, poor course layouts, etc. Not to mention there is no games which I would consider "fun". Games are mostly individual gross/net, which is basically a golf tournament. Then you get the guys who think they are on tour, with their green books and names on their bag, and the attitude to match.

 

I'm looking for a place where most of the issues pointed out above are not there. I'd like to be able to play a round in 3.5-4 hours, grab a wrap in the bar/grill after my morning round, then head back out to practice on the range/short game area (or play a second round). If there's a regular game that isn't like playing a golf tournament every weekend, even better. The public's (even the expensive ones with some sort of annual pass) will not offer this sort of experience. I have actually done an annual pass at one of them and there was no regular member group, and members often just played in their regular foursomes, or just on their own and got paired with daily fee players. I tried to get word around about starting a game, and there was a lack of interest and not really enough members to start something worthwhile. They all already had their established group, or they didn't play money games. I had one guy tell me he had no money to play, then I saw him pull out of the parking lot in a brand new corvette. 

 

I am not sure the cheaper club is an Invited Club or independent of them. I've heard from a few members and they seemed to enjoy themselves. The TPC has one of the two courses reserved for members each day, which is nice. It is not fully private (it's a resort course), so this leaves some to be desired, but it seems both courses are well maintained, and pace of play is fast on the member course for that day. 

 

I also recently moved to the area, so I don't really have a group of friends that would draw me away from playing either of the private clubs. I would often play with members I meet at each course. 

[klebs01]

The nice thing about option #2 is that the initiation is fairly low, so if ends up not being what you are looking for you aren’t out that much if you walk away.