You Get to Your Ball and a Turtle Has Stopped It

[North Texas]

When the turtle moves, your ball rolls into the water. 

 

What's the rule?

[iacas]

Ball at rest moved by outside influence.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=9&subrulenum=6

 

Mostly just curious… did you look at the Rules before asking?

[rogolf]

Replace the original ball or another ball at the original spot; estimate the spot if necessary.

One stroke penalty to the turtle.🫠

[Mr. Bean]

5 hours ago, North Texas said:

What's the rule?

 

Rules 11.1b (ball stopped by Outside Influence) and 9.6 (ball moved by Outside Influence).

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

Did you slice it into the petting zoo again?

[antip]

That could be a very rules-savvy turtle, concerned that a player may play as lies rather than risk a 9.4b penalty by causing their ball to move in the process of removing the turtle.

[North Butte]

I once saw a guy bounce a ball off a turtle and onto the green. Fortunately, the Rules did not require him to place the ball out in the pond at the spot where it hit the turtle.

 

The turtle got the hell out of there right quick-like afterwards, before the rest of our group could hit. 

[limegreengent]

8 hours ago, antip said:

That could be a very rules-savvy turtle, concerned that a player may play as lies rather than risk a 9.4b penalty by causing their ball to move in the process of removing the turtle.

Also ,  Not forgetting that now  the rules savvy turtle may know that a local rule is in place) , which allows for removal of animal and no penalty under 9.4 if ball moves.🤔

[denkea]

22 hours ago, iacas said:

Ball at rest moved by outside influence.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=9&subrulenum=6

 

Mostly just curious… did you look at the Rules before asking?

Yeah!!!! How dare he ask a rules question on a rules forum??????

[davep043]

3 minutes ago, denkea said:

Yeah!!!! How dare he ask a rules question on a rules forum??????

A guy who asks such a simple question would almost certainly be better served by learning to use the rules himself.  Its the old give a man to fish...teach a man to fish... story.  This guy got his fish, but he's going to be hungry for rules knowledge again, with no new clues as to how to get the answer.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, denkea said:

Yeah!!!! How dare he ask a rules question on a rules forum??????

 

Question: I just hit my ball out of bounds. What should I do next? Can I play it?

 

Sorry, I don't agree. I think people should show that they did at a basic amount of work to answer their own question. Maybe at least as much effort as you put in typing punctuation marks. 😛 

 

Edit: @davep043 says that too. And… it's not like I didn't point him in the right direction, too.

 

Edited March 31 by iacas
Edit

[Mr. Bean]

11 minutes ago, davep043 said:

A guy who asks such a simple question would almost certainly be better served by learning to use the rules himself.  Its the old give a man to fish...teach a man to fish... story.  This guy got his fish, but he's going to be hungry for rules knowledge again, with no new clues as to how to get the answer.

 

Or...

 

... he got a crumble of curiosity from the answers given and read the relevant Rules. Then his appetite grew and he started to read more...

 

And to be honest, this was not the most simple question as one needed to find two correct Rules in order to get it right. Not an easy task for a person not familiar with the book.

Edited March 31 by Mr. Bean

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, davep043 said:

A guy who asks such a simple question would almost certainly be better served by learning to use the rules himself.  Its the old give a man to fish...teach a man to fish... story.  This guy got his fish, but he's going to be hungry for rules knowledge again, with no new clues as to how to get the answer.

 

It's a turtle!

 

I like looking them up but this was one I was glad the answer was straight off, lol.

 

Having said that looking around for a bit and happened on this:  "For other situations when a ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by an outside influence (such as an animal), and that outside influence moves and causes the ball to move, see Rule 9.6 for what to do."

 

I was pleasantly surprised to get to 9.6 after a specific reference to an "animal" which I honestly did not expect to find.

[DaveLeeNC]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Or...

 

... he got a crumble of curiosity from the answers given and read the relevant Rules. Then his appetite grew and he started to read more...

 

And to be honest, this was not the most simple question as one needed to find two correct Rules in order to get it right. Not an easy task for a person not familiar with the book.

In actuality it is three stops in the rule book. Rule 9.6, 11.2, and the definition of an outside influence. And a naive golfer (WRT the RoG) who stumbles into outside influence and 9.6 first is probably not going to recognize that his/her question is not yet fully answered (as said person would probably not recognize the critical difference between a ball in motion and a ball at rest). This same person might well read this thread and still not bother following up with reading Rule 11.2. 

 

dave

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, DaveLeeNC said:

In actuality it is three stops in the rule book. Rule 9.6, 11.2, and the definition of an outside influence. And a naive golfer (WRT the RoG) who stumbles into outside influence and 9.6 first is probably not going to recognize that his/her question is not yet fully answered (as said person would probably not recognize the critical difference between a ball in motion and a ball at rest). This same person might well read this thread and still not bother following up with reading Rule 11.2. 

 

dave

 

 

It's actually clarification 11.1b/2 

Edited March 31 by Hawkeye77

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

 

It's actually clarification 11.1b/2 

 

Yeah, a Clarification is the first thing a person stumbles across when opening the Rules of Golf...

[North Texas]

On 3/30/2024 at 9:27 AM, iacas said:

Ball at rest moved by outside influence.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=9&subrulenum=6

 

Mostly just curious… did you look at the Rules before asking?

 

Since you are curious, no I did not look at the Rules before asking. 

 

Sorry, I mistakenly believed that this was a discussion board and that I was allowed to ask questions. 

[North Texas]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Question: I just hit my ball out of bounds. What should I do next? Can I play it?

 

Sorry, I don't agree. I think people should show that they did at a basic amount of work to answer their own question. Maybe at least as much effort as you put in typing punctuation marks. 😛 

 

Edit: @davep043 says that too. And… it's not like I didn't point him in the right direction, too.

 

 

Sorry, but what you think I should do is not important to me. 

[North Texas]

6 hours ago, davep043 said:

A guy who asks such a simple question would almost certainly be better served by learning to use the rules himself.  Its the old give a man to fish...teach a man to fish... story.  This guy got his fish, but he's going to be hungry for rules knowledge again, with no new clues as to how to get the answer.

 

Sorry, didn't realize we were no longer allowed to ask a question here even though it is a discussion board. 

Edited March 31 by North Texas

[iacas]

36 minutes ago, North Texas said:

Sorry, but what you think I should do is not important to me. 

 

34 minutes ago, North Texas said:

Sorry, didn't realize we were no longer allowed to ask a question here even though it is a discussion board. 

 

 

Happy Easter.

[Hawkeye77]

3 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Yeah, a Clarification is the first thing a person stumbles across when opening the Rules of Golf...

 

I didn't say it was or suggested it would be easy to find.

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, North Texas said:

 

Sorry, but what you think I should do is not important to me. 

 

2 hours ago, North Texas said:

 

Sorry, didn't realize we were no longer allowed to ask a question here even though it is a discussion board. 

They aren’t sayin it’s not a discussion board or the at one can ask questions but rather that using the tools available one can come to the answer themselves.

 

I’ll add a better question or more productive discussion is to ask for clarification of understanding of the rule or if one made the right decision based on the rules 

[North Texas]

2 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

 

They aren’t sayin it’s not a discussion board or the at one can ask questions but rather that using the tools available one can come to the answer themselves.

 

I’ll add a better question or more productive discussion is to ask for clarification of understanding of the rule or if one made the right decision based on the rules 

 

BTW, I am fully aware that I could have looked up it myself. But then I would have missed out on the entertainment that comes from asking on here 😉

 

And I don't necessarily disagree with your last sentence. 

[North Texas]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

 

 

 

Happy Easter.

 

Yea, last week I walked into the library and asked the librarian where the self-help section was. She said it would defeat the purpose if she told me. 

 

You guys sound like her, lol. And I mean that lightheartedly. It's all good. 

 

Happy Easter to you as well. 

[antip]

10 hours ago, limegreengent said:

Also ,  Not forgetting that now  the rules savvy turtle may know that a local rule is in place) , which allows for removal of animal and no penalty under 9.4 if ball moves.🤔

Thank you, indeed so. Of course, it is no trivial challenge for the turtle to absorb the rule book that fell out of someone's golf bag on the course. But hats off also to the turtle that can successfully access the local rule sheet at the course.🙂

 

By the by, do you know of courses that have invoked this MLR (E-13 for those interested)? I see England Golf has it on their Hard Card.

 

And I'll be interested to see if the Rules of Golf Committee moves MLR E-13 directly into the rule book come 2027.

And for anyone wondering what LGG and antip are chattering about, catalysts for this July 2023 MLR can be found with a German snail and a turtle of undefined location in these FB threads:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RulesOfGolf/permalink/5440933219295663/

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/RulesOfGolf/permalink/5154356111286710/ 

[antip]

12 hours ago, North Butte said:

I once saw a guy bounce a ball off a turtle and onto the green. Fortunately, the Rules did not require him to place the ball out in the pond at the spot where it hit the turtle.

 

The turtle got the hell out of there right quick-like afterwards, before the rest of our group could hit. 

And social media missed it? What a disaster, couldabeen 10 milliion hits there!

[rogolf]

I once had a ruling with Luke Donald, he hit his tee shot over a yellow penalty area but the ball bounced back into the penalty area.  There was a turtle on the bank just above where his ball had landed and I used that turtle to line up the spot where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area.  But, I forgot that turtles can move, and when I was standing there with the player, the turtle was absent.  We did, however, reach the correct conclusion!

[Hawkeye77]

59 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I once had a ruling with Luke Donald, he hit his tee shot over a yellow penalty area but the ball bounced back into the penalty area.  There was a turtle on the bank just above where his ball had landed and I used that turtle to line up the spot where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area.  But, I forgot that turtles can move, and when I was standing there with the player, the turtle was absent.  We did, however, reach the correct conclusion!

They are faster than they look!

[denkea]

On 3/31/2024 at 8:40 AM, iacas said:

Question: I just hit my ball out of bounds. What should I do next? Can I play it?

 

Do you remember when you first started playing golf and you had a rules question?  How would you have responded if the guys you were playing with tossed you a rules book and said "Look it up"???

[davep043]

11 minutes ago, denkea said:

Do you remember when you first started playing golf and you had a rules question?  How would you have responded if the guys you were playing with tossed you a rules book and said "Look it up"???

I'd say its a bit different when someone has played golf, seen a situation, come home, sat at his computer (which can directly access the Rules of Golf), and has asked a question without making any attempt to find the answer.  And the way I'd answer the question would be based on his apparent interest (or lack).  If he doesn't seem to want to learn about using the rules, I say (in the turtle situation) "put it back".  If he DOES care about learning, I'd point him to specific rules that address the situation, as well as potential complications that might arise.  I might also be able to point out why he couldn't find the answer in his own rules search, which could help him in the future.

Edited April 1 by davep043