Scoring has gotten crazy on tour

[b-man777]

Hey y’all: I’ve watched my fair share of golf on tv over the years and have been wondering for quite a while now why scoring on tour for a number of years now has gotten crazy low. Some thoughts I have as to why this could be are:

deeper more talented fields than we’ve ever seen. Courses equipment club fitting training and instruction are better now than they’ve ever been? Thoughts and thanks… 🏌️‍♂️🤔😎🐝

 

[mosesgolf]

Talent, fitness, equipment, technique, and everything else that goes into sculpting a Touring Pro has been getting incrementally better every year.  59s while still awesome doesn't awe like it used to.

Edited July 11 by mosesgolf

[Dutch1008]

32 minutes ago, b-man777 said:

Hey y’all: I’ve watched my fair share of golf on tv over the years and have been wondering for quite a while now why scoring on tour for a number of years now has gotten crazy low. Some thoughts I have as to why this could be are:

deeper more talented fields than we’ve ever seen. Courses equipment club fitting training and instruction are better now than they’ve ever been? Thoughts and thanks… 🏌️‍♂️🤔😎🐝

 

Ultra long and forgiving equipment. Trackman optimization. Fitting expertise. Fitness revolution. Analytics and strategy optimization. A 25 year trend of growing purses attracting ever more talented athletes. Agronomy advances leading to nearly perfect course conditions. 

 

It's a little bit of everything. 

 

I heard a podcast interview w/ Parker McLachlin about a year ago. He recounted a conversation he had w/ Paul Azinger in which Zinger told him that unless he had a wedge in his hands, he was playing for par. Only the preternaturally gifted like Tiger would consider even 8i a scoring club. Well, with the distances these dudes hit it off the tee and how they approach strategy today, they're getting more wedges than ever. With trackman, they can dial in their wedges better than ever. With new balls, they can control spin better than ever. No real surprise that your seeing more birdies and lower scoring.    

Edited July 11 by Dutch1008

[Archimedes65]

High school kids are driving the ball 450 yards plus, straight down the middle.  I hear.  It’s probably something in the milk.

[kwcsports]

They are just really good. All the things mentioned above are factors. Better athletes, better instruction and understanding the swing, equipment is huge as well. It's fun to watch. I'm in awe at how long and straight they hit it.

[m d g]

I've gone from my usual 82s to scorching 77s and 78s, so I can understand this exactly...

[nvr3putt]

The rough ain't as rough as it used to be? 🤷‍♂️

[Golfnutgalen]

This is the norm unless they get the green speeds up or the winds pick up.

Edited July 11 by Golfnutgalen

[Tony90504]

Courses are now too easy now for tour pros. They are hitting driver and 6 iron onto par 5s. This was not norm 20 years ago. I honestly don't know why par 4s are not around 500-529 yards for tour pros. They gotta hit long irons at least onto long par 4s 😆 🤣 😂 

[StoutKing]

21 minutes ago, Tony90504 said:

Courses are now too easy now for tour pros. They are hitting driver and 6 iron onto par 5s. This was not norm 20 years ago. I honestly don't know why par 4s are not around 500-529 yards for tour pros. They gotta hit long irons at least onto long par 4s 😆 🤣 😂 

#16 was playing something like 540 yards in the US Open.  Guys were hitting sand wedge.  There's another topic all about distance LOL

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

Ultra long and forgiving equipment. Trackman optimization. Fitting expertise. Fitness revolution. Analytics and strategy optimization. A 25 year trend of growing purses attracting ever more talented athletes. Agronomy advances leading to nearly perfect course conditions. 

 

It's a little bit of everything. 

 

I heard a podcast interview w/ Parker McLachlin about a year ago. He recounted a conversation he had w/ Paul Azinger in which Zinger told him that unless he had a wedge in his hands, he was playing for par. Only the preternaturally gifted like Tiger would consider even 8i a scoring club. Well, with the distances these dudes hit it off the tee and how they approach strategy today, they're getting more wedges than ever. With trackman, they can dial in their wedges better than ever. With new balls, they can control spin better than ever. No real surprise that your seeing more birdies and lower scoring.    

Of course, in all fairness, the 8 iron off Zinger’s day would have a P on it today.

 

 Combine that with the reasons mentioned above with fitness and optimization and that’s what you get.

 

 Funny thing to me is some deplore the way the game is played today.  As if the players haven’t worked to get the distance and skills they deploy.

[Chunkitgood]

Saying it’s better when pros shoot 59 is exactly the same thing as saying your amp is better because it goes to 11.

 

 

[Justsomeguy]

There's been a lot of lift clean and place lately. It's skewing the perception.

I don't disagree w OP, bc driver + 6 iron into a par 5 is kind of a menace - but I also think the last month has looked worse than usual.

[Tony90504]

3 hours ago, nvr3putt said:

The rough ain't as rough as it used to be? 🤷‍♂️

Funny that you are mentioning this-USGA changed the golf groove rule in 2011 to ensure pros are not spinning like crazy out of rough after bombing their drives 340 yards. I don't see crazy rough anymore-you brought a good point. I remember in 90s some pros whack their wedges from the rough and it moved only 2-3 yards due to how thick it is. I guess PGA had to cut rough for better work environment for tour players so that they don't jump the ship to LIV LOL.

[Titleist99]

LOL! ...... The new narrative is score doesn't matter.......

 

Tiger Woods holds the scoring avg. record from 2000 (67.79)

 

Just to put it in perspective Scottie Scheffler's scoring average for 2024 is 68.5 and he's won 27.5M so far and it's only July 2024,.

 

Golf is a game and the score is all that matters...🤣

[Dutch1008]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

 Funny thing to me is some deplore the way the game is played today.  As if the players haven’t worked to get the distance and skills they deploy.

 

The players have earned every ounce of athletic development and skill improvement. What they didn't earn is Max 10k fargiveness Krank drivers that fly 320 on toe strikes with little penalty and balls that have been ultra engineered to spin lower off the tee while maintaining exceptional green side spin. 

 

The elite athlete didn't need the world class engineering, Us hacks do. 

 

But perhaps we keep this unsolvable gordian knot of a topic in its own thread hey?   

[iBanesto]

 

But a US Open-esuqye set up is too difficult for players every 3/4 weeks.

[cardoustie]

The tour - for some reason - doesn’t want courses like the last US Open at Merion … with rough, trees, and small tough firm greens.   Those are the golf courses of my youth, shape it and hit it straight were necessary to score

 

Tours seemingly want wide open 7500 yard courses with few trees and concrete runways … a home run derby for birdies to entertain the masses in my opinion 

[golferdude54]

Chill, Jim Furyk shot 58 to Cameron Young's 59 on the same course in 2016 and Paul Goydos shot the same 59 as Hayden Springer did in 2010. This isn't record breaking whatsoever. 

[cassel191919]

11 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Talent, fitness, equipment, technique, and everything else that goes into sculpting a Touring Pro has been getting incrementally better every year.  59s while still awesome doesn't awe like it used to.

Lets not forget almost all of these 59's are on lift clean and place days. When they actually do play it down which feels rare lately still awes a bit.

[Rapidcat]

Many course set-ups are too easy what with manufactured drivable par 4's, sometimes with only an iron.

 

Par 5's where you can get on in 2 with a short iron for your 2nd.

 

Next we'll have drivable par 5's.

 

And don't get me started on lift clean place whenever conditions aren't perfect.

 

Simply moronic.

[Hawkeye77]

How many PGA Tour rounds this season have been lift, clean and place, lol? On the one hand, it’s humorous it triggers people the way it does, on the other, it isn’t all that often at all, but usually good reasons for doing it. 
 

Yep, scoring is lower and just further evolution of the same factors that were driving scoring lower 10 years ago and 20 years ago and so forth. 
 

Distance still a huge factor. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

How many PGA Tour rounds this season have been lift, clean and place, lol? On the one hand, it’s humorous it triggers people the way it does, on the other, it isn’t all that often at all, but usually good reasons for doing it. 
 

Yep, scoring is lower and just further evolution of the same factors that were driving scoring lower 10 years ago and 20 years ago and so forth. 
 

Distance still a huge factor. 

Thanks for bringing reason to the typical hyperbolic claims of others. 

[GoGoErky]

6 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

The players have earned every ounce of athletic development and skill improvement. What they didn't earn is Max 10k fargiveness Krank drivers that fly 320 on toe strikes with little penalty and balls that have been ultra engineered to spin lower off the tee while maintaining exceptional green side spin. 

 

The elite athlete didn't need the world class engineering, Us hacks do. 

 

But perhaps we keep this unsolvable gordian knot of a topic in its own thread hey?   

In case you weren’t aware that’s marketing numbers and moi is maxed at 5900. The 10k is just the companies adding up the moi on two axis.

 

Nothing has changed in club specs in 20’years.

[Rapidcat]

There have been 30 completed tournaments to date on the 2024 PGAT season.

 

24 of them have deployed Lift Clean Place in some way - all rounds, some rounds, some holes.

 

Just silly.

[Hawkeye77]

23 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

There have been 30 completed tournaments to date on the 2024 PGAT season.

 

24 of them have deployed Lift Clean Place in some way - all rounds, some rounds, some holes.

 

Just silly.

I’m actually surprised at that but the question was how many rounds? It’s a matter of weather and golf isn’t played in a bubble so if the season has been wetter than normal …

 

Curious how it affects you in some way?  

[Rapidcat]

Just now, Hawkeye77 said:

I’m actually surprised at that but the question was how many rounds? It’s a matter of weather and golf isn’t played in a bubble so if the season has been wetter than normal …

 

Curious how it affects you in some way?  

 

Against a principle of golf not to touch the ball between tee and green (penalty action excluded).

 

In reality, it allows a player to obtain as close to a perfect lie as possible - they don't need the help and should cope with the test a less than perfect lie gives them. It makes play easier, at times too easy?

 

[GoGoErky]

21 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Against a principle of golf not to touch the ball between tee and green (penalty action excluded).

 

In reality, it allows a player to obtain as close to a perfect lie as possible - they don't need the help and should cope with the test a less than perfect lie gives them. It makes play easier, at times too easy?

 

It’s allowed under the rules of golf so it’s not violating any rules. Secondly it’s a pro tour that is providing entertainment for its audience. The tour is setting up the course and what MLRs are in use for a day, a hole a, a tournament that allows its members to showcase themselves.

 

It’s about putting on a show, nothing more.

[GoGoErky]

31 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I’m actually surprised at that but the question was how many rounds? It’s a matter of weather and golf isn’t played in a bubble so if the season has been wetter than normal …

 

Curious how it affects you in some way?  

im curious on this too and it wasn’t answered in the reply 

[Rapidcat]

Just now, GoGoErky said:

It’s allowed under the rules of golf so it’s not violating any rules. Secondly it’s a pro tour that is providing entertainment for its audience. The tour is setting up the course and what MLRs are in use for a day, a hole a, a tournament that allows its members to showcase themselves.

 

It’s about putting on a show, nothing more.

 

I don't disagree with you but I still don't like it, I get as much entertainment from watching players dealing with adversity.

 

I view it as a form of legalized cheating, whilst realizing that is a contradictory description.