The ballad of Jimmy Ballard...

[trapsmv15]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1398772606' post='9193769']
So what's up with Ballard these days?
[/quote]
Not sure, but I'm using his principles to play comfortable golf with many ailments and hope to hear more!

Love the WITB also, tembolo. Great minds

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='trapsmv15' timestamp='1399861529' post='9276651']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1398772606' post='9193769']
So what's up with Ballard these days?
[/quote]
Not sure, but I'm using his principles to play comfortable golf with many ailments and hope to hear more!

Love the WITB also, tembolo. Great minds
[/quote]

hehe very nice!

[dualradius]

Former golf professional, equipment salesman, etc - I got out of the business and quit golf about a decade ago. My 14 year old just started to want to play, so I put a set together and have started to hit again.

I'd say if I had to put together 20 rounds to get a handicap, I'd be lower-mid single digits. Was never better than scratch "back in the day". So, I was never a great player, but better than most golfers. Also, I was NEVER long compared to other golf professionals and it was my biggest weakness when trying to play in that arena. I was never better than a 7 to 8 iron (36 to 40 degree iron) from 150 - flat ground / no wind. So, not long by any stretch.

In any case, worked under a Ballard disciple and it is the method I learned how to teach. So, if someone wants my help learning how to play golf, I will default to Ballard - because it's the only way I really know how to teach a swing.

Do I think it's the method for golf professionals to achieve their very best? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly I think the methodology doesn't "push the limit" in achieving club and ball speed.

HOWEVER, I will say that I definitively believe with every ounce of my being that it is the most effective way to teach the golf swing to a beginner / amateur who wants to learn how to swing and hit the ball consistently down the middle with some power.

It's the method that is easiest to explain for the highest number of people to understand AND implement. AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE DISCUSSION. There's not a lot of confusion - and for true beginners I simplify the teaching even further. Once past basics of setup, I focus on them moving sternum over right instep - and then "push" (however we can get this feeling across) with right foot / knee / leg. Final step is to follow through and finish high and straight with body.

The hardest part is the initiation of the downswing - everything should fall into place once the golfer finds the feeling of initiating this with rhythm.

Anyway, the initiation of the downswing is the hardest part of the teaching, but once they get this feeling down, the beginner golfer can break into the 80s pretty easily IMO - even the 70s. It's just a matter of wedge / short game and putting at that point.

[Moonlightgrm]

Time for me to find Jimmy Ballard's book.

Thanks for pulling up this older thread!

[dualradius]

Sure - and I sincerely wish I could get every high handicapper and beginner to be taught by Jimmy or a pro that teaches that way.

Get rid of all of the technical stuff, angles, wrist c0ck discussion, etc.

Make it simple: Set up, sternum over right instep, "fire" right side (this is the tricky part to teach, as each individual really will feel this differently), and finish high and straight.

That's it IMO.

Hit the ball straight with some power, and then learn how to putt, and get up and down a lot.

Now you're shooting in the 70s. Pretty simple.


And to those arguing in the previous posts about turn vs no-turn - let me address this:

Can you argue that there is a "turn" in the golf swing? Sure, you can.

Does Jimmy preach that there is NO TURN in the golf swing? Yes, he does.

Doesn't matter though, because for most golfers this concept is completely mute. Just get your weight over your right side - that's all of the "turning" you need to do.

[Moonlightgrm]

dualradius, I play to a 3-handicap and have been told by one teaching professional that I don't get enough turn. "If you want to get over to the plus side of the handicap, you've got to increase your turn for more consistent ball striking". After reading this thread and watching Rocco and Jimmy in the short video, I am convinced that my golf swing is close to what Jimmy Ballard preaches. I swing the club the way my dad taught me many years ago. However, my swing has been a mental barrier due to comments like the one above. This thread has made me feel better about my golf swing. I've got to read Jimmy's book and watch his video series. I have been playing golf since age 10 (47 years).

[dualradius]

[quote name='Moonlightgrm' timestamp='1445884603' post='12508908']
dualradius, I play to a 3-handicap and have been told by one teaching professional that I don't get enough turn. "If you want to get over to the plus side of the handicap, you've got to increase your turn for more consistent ball striking". After reading this thread and watching Rocco and Jimmy in the short video, I am convinced that my golf swing is close to what Jimmy Ballard preaches. I swing the club the way my dad taught me many years ago. However, my swing has been a mental barrier due to comments like the one above. This thread has made me feel better about my golf swing. I've got to read Jimmy's book and watch his video series. I have been playing golf since age 10 (47 years).
[/quote]

Moonlight - Good deal, and FWIW 3 handicap is awfully good. So you know what you're doing. I don't know how much ball striking can improve (versus short game), but the only challenge when teaching Ballard with a lower handicap is to then increase power. I never taught lower handicappers enough to determine the answer on this one.

[pappaf2]

[quote name='dualradius' timestamp='1445792964' post='12504664']

It's the method that is easiest to explain for the highest number of people to understand AND implement. AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE DISCUSSION. There's not a lot of confusion - and for true beginners I simplify the teaching even further. Once past basics of setup, I focus on them moving sternum over right instep - [u][b]and then "push" (however we can get this feeling across) with right foot / knee / leg[/b][/u]. Final step is to follow through and finish high and straight with body.

[u][b]The hardest part is the initiation of the downswing[/b][/u] - everything should fall into place once the golfer finds the feeling of initiating this with rhythm.

Anyway, the initiation of the downswing is the hardest part of the teaching, but once they get this feeling down, the beginner golfer can break into the 80s pretty easily IMO - even the 70s.
[/quote]

Since this is the most difficult thing for people to grasp about the ballard method can you give some different examples of how you have explained this motion to people?

[dualradius]

Sure...

I would start with them swinging over and over again - and ultimately in slow motion, continually asking them what they feel is the first part of their body that "does something / anything" when starting / initiating the downswing. After repeated attempts, we identify (together) what that is. If it is NOT the right foot / knee, then we work to make it the case.

Like Jimmy said, downswing starts from the ground up...

For me, it has always been the ball of right foot and right knee "firing" together (I'd say they're part of the same thing in this case). That is the first part of my body that does something when going from backswing to downswing. In fact, I'd say the backswing is still completing (or at least the club is still moving back), after the firing of the right side has started. At least that's how I feel it...

[mocokid]

I've worked on the Ballard swing, and have to agree about firing the right side.

Also, at the same time you fire the right side, you HAVE GOT to release the chest and head to the target, ala Annika, Duval and others. If you keep your head down through impact (which most people were erroneously taught), and worse yet increase the spine tilt, a bad low hook will result. For newbies, you really have to feel you are taking your eye off the ball (you ain't) and 'swaying' the upper body forward. When you completely release the right side and upper body, you will hit bullets.

[dualradius]

[quote name='mocokid' timestamp='1445950015' post='12512324']
I've worked on the Ballard swing, and have to agree about firing the right side.

Also, at the same time you fire the right side, you HAVE GOT to release the chest and head to the target, ala Annika, Duval and others. If you keep your head down through impact (which most people were erroneously taught), and worse yet increase the spine tilt, a bad low hook will result. For newbies, you really have to feel you are taking your eye off the ball (you ain't) and 'swaying' the upper body forward. When you completely release the right side and upper body, you will hit bullets.
[/quote]

I like the first part of this for sure - "releasing" the chest and head to the target.

[mocokid]

Thanks, FWIW, I am NOT suggesting anyone should sway to the target. Only that for many long time golfers it may feel VERY different from staying 'down' to the bitter end of the swing. Better idea would be to watch Annika down swing- follow the shot off the club face.

[Edgewood]

A little time to kill last night and this morning. I read the entire post over again. Some really good info here. I've suffered from a bad back for over 10 years. Golf is very important to me, but it was getting to the point where I just couldn't do it any longer. A little over a year ago I threw myself into the Ballard method. I figured this was my last chance at continuing to play golf weekly. I struggled for several months and even gave up on the method for a few weeks this Spring. Ultimately, I caught on to the parts that had confused me. (Springing the shaft and standing a little taller/closer to the ball). I was a 3 before I started. I couldn't break 85 for 6 months. I'm now back to a 3. The BIGGEST chance for me is that my back no longer hurts me after I play golf. That's been a life changer for me.

My humble thoughts:
1. You can play good golf without the Ballard method, but if you have low back issues, this method will allow you to play with far less pain. I'm living proof.

2. Ballard's method helped me avoid a reverse tilt towards the target at the top of my swing. Although I do not personally do it, a little spine tilt at set up way from the target is another method that will eliminate the reverse tilt at the top.

3. The loading into the rear leg is just that. my definition of a "sway" is when your weight goes PAST YOUR REAR HIP AND KNEE AND IS NO LONGER STORED INSIDE YOUR REAR HIP AND KNEE.

4. Springing the shaft for ME is a throwing motion from the top of the back swing (skip a rock) accompanied with a push off from your rear leg. Doing that will naturally move your weight forward and you will not hang-back (aka rev. C)

5. I (and I think most folks) lower their ball flight with the Ballard method. I think that's because I'm using the actual loft and not adding loft at impact. (aka I'm not hanging back).

6. Peoples criticism of the "my way or the highway" teaching style are fair. It is a little harsh and was also a turn off for me when I started. BUT, it is a method teaching philosophy. It does work significantly better when you follow the instruction 100%. I think that's true with most methods, but Jimmy is perhaps the most vocal on that point.



Good luck to anyone who is looking to adopt the Ballard method. If you give it enough time it will work, and I suspect you'll be happy you made the investment. I am.

Brian

[danattherock]

Brian,

 

That's great to hear, and timely. Seems like a lifetime ago when I started this thread. Within a month of working on Jimmy Ballards method I went from shooting on low/mid 90's, to threatening to break 80, and shooting consistently in mid 80's. I was so enthused, almost intoxicated. In Nov of that same year, 2012, I got in a major T bone car crash, and last Feb had lumbar fusion with titanium hardware put in. Avoided all things golf for last 3.5 years as I couldn't play. Reading this thread again tonight reminded me of how much I've been missing out on. Just this past week I've decided to try to play again. I see a seven step recovery.

 

 

 

Dan

[Edgewood]

Dan,

 

 

So happy you are back online and trying to play golf again. I got your pm this morning. Sorry to hear about the car accident. To me, the Ballard method has been a second chance at golf. It wasn't until I started using his method that I realized how much pressure I was putting on my lower back with a head still centered non movement swing.

 

I've watched and studied Rocco and Hal sutton's golf academy shows until I had the entire script memorized. The parts that I believe helped eliminate the back pressure are : 1. Stand close to the ball ( at first I didn't believe I could even hit the ball from there but I was pleasantly surprised) 2. My but tucked under a little ( that helps activate my legs and decreases the activity of my lumbar). 3 stand a little taller than I had (at first I over did that and I had to eventually find some middle ground) 4. While connected and while my rear arm is higher than the front arm I turn my chest away from the ball and allow my head to move with it. With my rear foot turned in like I'm standing on a pitchers mound, I feel very loaded into my rear knee and leg 5 just let my rear side go down the target line. There I think straight line over the ball and NOT circular. The circle will naturally happen but it doesn't need any incouragement my finish is now naturally forward without hanging back.

I played ice hockey. The Ballard swing in my mind is a well connected slap shot.

 

Best

Brian

[danattherock]

Great to hear Brian. Thanks for sharing how this method has worked for you. Jim Grant, a disciple of Jimmy Ballard, teaches at The Standard Club in Atlanta. Spent two days with him about 6 months before my accident. May get the cob webs out, work on conditioning a bit, and head back down his way in coming months. Sounds like Ballards swing is a back friendly one, and of more value to me now than ever before perhaps.

 

 

 

Dan

[Jersey golfer]

Brian,

 

That's great to hear, and timely. Seems like a lifetime ago when I started this thread. Within a month of working on Jimmy Ballards method I went from shooting on low/mid 90's, to threatening to break 80, and shooting consistently in mid 80's. I was so enthused, almost intoxicated. In Nov of that same year, 2012, I got in a major T bone car crash, and last Feb had lumbar fusion with titanium hardware put in. Avoided all things golf for last 3.5 years as I couldn't play. Reading this thread again tonight reminded me of how much I've been missing out on. Just this past week I've decided to try to play again. I see a seven step recovery.

 

 

 

Dan

 

Sorry to hear about your accident. Always enjoyed your enthusiastic posts. Hope you have a full recovery and pick up your golf where you left off!

[farmer]

Hey. Dan, glad to see you again. Sorry about the wreck, hope that you can get back to the game. Have wondered what happened when you disappeared.

[pappaf2]

Brian,

 

That's great to hear, and timely. Seems like a lifetime ago when I started this thread. Within a month of working on Jimmy Ballards method I went from shooting on low/mid 90's, to threatening to break 80, and shooting consistently in mid 80's. I was so enthused, almost intoxicated. In Nov of that same year, 2012, I got in a major T bone car crash, and last Feb had lumbar fusion with titanium hardware put in. Avoided all things golf for last 3.5 years as I couldn't play. Reading this thread again tonight reminded me of how much I've been missing out on. Just this past week I've decided to try to play again. I see a seven step recovery.

 

 

 

Dan

 

Wow Dan welcome back! Really sorry to hear about your accident. Hopefully you will be able to return to playing golf. I had always been curious to see how your progress was going with the Ballard swing. Indeed it is touted that Ballard's swing is one of the most back friendly there is.

[danattherock]

Thanks guys. I just went up to my office and watched Jimmys dvd on my desktop. Reminded myself of some main things, and jotted down some notes. Also got a call from Jim Grant in Atlanta, as I had emailed him overnight. Will be heading down there for two half day sessions soon. Need to work on fitness and flexibility a little first, just to tolerate the lessons. As of now, I sit down after 10-15 balls, so deconditioned. Heading up to Pinehurst to hit some range balls now. Just got my clubs regripped. Almost feel normal again. Ha ha.

 

 

Dan

[danattherock]

Hey. Dan, glad to see you again. Sorry about the wreck, hope that you can get back to the game. Have wondered what happened when you disappeared.

 

Was on way home from work Nov 2012 on highway at 55 mph, an ambulance suddenly pulled out in front of me as I went through an intersection. No time to hit brakes, a T bone. Totaled ambulance, my Escalade, and another truck. I was lucky, considering the possibilities.

 

 

Dan

[bluedot]

I hope your comeback goes well. I truly believe that the Ballard stuff is THE best way to play golf without injuring yourself.

 

I have been playing this way for 20+ years; I'm 64 now and play 3 or 4 times a week. I work hard in the gym and at stretching, but I believe that an equally big reason that I have stayed injury-free over all that time (insert sound of knocking on wood here...) is using a swing that is has a wide base and emphasizes a weight shift and coil rather than a turn.

 

Jim Grant in Atlanta has been mentioned; another Ballard-trained guy is Barry Walters at St. James Plantation in Southport, NC. I worked with him at the end of July at the recommendation of the Ballard office, and it was GREAT! I've never hit the ball better in my life than I've hit it since then, and it's just simple.

 

Anyway, thanks for bumping this thread, and good luck!

[Chazb]

I doubt Ballard was or is clueless as you say H. Thats a very extreme viewpoint. I think Ballards stuff hasn't changed much over the years. It continues to work at the highest level as well as for handicap golfers.

It seems you have it in either for Jimmy or Forged or both. It's no matter to me its just I cannot resist pointing out that Ballard made some good points and his method has stood the test of time without much change.

I think he has a point about loading its not about the spine or how it works its about athletic action in general like throwing or kicking or jumping or running.

 

Of course Ballard has many good points. What I don't like (don't want to speak for Hstead) is his attitude that anything other than what he says cannot work, is wrong, or if you disagree you don't know what you are talking about.

 

There are lots of ways to produce great golf shots. Ballard has one, but it's the attitude and salesmanship that pisses a lot of people off, including me.

Years ago I was on this website and a golf writer and teacher was on the site too.He said he put out a challenge to Ballard that if he could break 80 on a PGA course he would give him ten grand.

This may not mean anything but it did happen and I don't know if Ballard accepted.I do like Ballard but as teachers go he may not be for everyone.

[powerpushfade]

No one teacher is for everyone. I really like Ballard but I just cannot get my self to put his swing onto action. The method seems so simple and comfortable but I cannot shallow the shaft at all and I tend to sway vs. load.

[danattherock]

Thank you. My folks have a home in Southport, and my boat is kept at marina there. We go there one or two weekends a month. I had no idea there was a Ballard trained guy at St James. Will look him up now. I had two great days with Jim Grant in May 2012, great guy. But Atlanta is five hours away. St James is 15 minute from our weekend home. Jimmy Ballard met with me on the range back in 2012 for an hour or two, after reading this thread. What a classy guy, wanted to give me a free lesson, so I met him near mountains of NC while he was on vacation.

 

 

Dan

 

 

I hope your comeback goes well. I truly believe that the Ballard stuff is THE best way to play golf without injuring yourself.

 

I have been playing this way for 20+ years; I'm 64 now and play 3 or 4 times a week. I work hard in the gym and at stretching, but I believe that an equally big reason that I have stayed injury-free over all that time (insert sound of knocking on wood here...) is using a swing that is has a wide base and emphasizes a weight shift and coil rather than a turn.

 

Jim Grant in Atlanta has been mentioned; another Ballard-trained guy is Barry Walters at St. James Plantation in Southport, NC. I worked with him at the end of July at the recommendation of the Ballard office, and it was GREAT! I've never hit the ball better in my life than I've hit it since then, and it's just simple.

 

Anyway, thanks for bumping this thread, and good luck!

[danattherock]

Good video of Rocco and Jimmy Ballard on TGC.

 

 

[Jersey golfer]

Video of Ballard and Jim Colbert.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uNPuC1FUqCQ

[bluedot]

Thank you. My folks have a home in Southport, and my boat is kept at marina there. We go there one or two weekends a month. I had no idea there was a Ballard trained guy at St James. Will look him up now. I had two great days with Jim Grant in May 2012, great guy. But Atlanta is five hours away. St James is 15 minute from our weekend home. Jimmy Ballard met with me on the range back in 2012 for an hour or two, after reading this thread. What a classy guy, wanted to give me a free lesson, so I met him near mountains of NC while he was on vacation.

 

 

Dan

 

 

I hope your comeback goes well. I truly believe that the Ballard stuff is THE best way to play golf without injuring yourself.

 

I have been playing this way for 20+ years; I'm 64 now and play 3 or 4 times a week. I work hard in the gym and at stretching, but I believe that an equally big reason that I have stayed injury-free over all that time (insert sound of knocking on wood here...) is using a swing that is has a wide base and emphasizes a weight shift and coil rather than a turn.

 

Jim Grant in Atlanta has been mentioned; another Ballard-trained guy is Barry Walters at St. James Plantation in Southport, NC. I worked with him at the end of July at the recommendation of the Ballard office, and it was GREAT! I've never hit the ball better in my life than I've hit it since then, and it's just simple.

 

Anyway, thanks for bumping this thread, and good luck!

 

Wow; cool! I highly recommend Barry Walters at St. James.

 

I'll tell you a cool thing about the lesson. Barry watched me hit balls from different angles for about 10 minutes before we did anything; all he wanted to know was what I was aiming at. At the end of that, he started the lesson by telling me three of four things that I was NOT to change or tinker with; I'd never had a lesson start that way, and it was GREAT.

 

We went on then and worked on width of stance, the first couple of feet of the takeaway, and the proper feel of releasing the club. Simple, and ZERO talk about turning, positions, or any of that. Thoroughly enjoyable, even in 100 degree weather! And the best part was that I didn't have to get worse to get better; this was the second day of a week-long golf trip, and by the end of the week with very little practice, I was hitting the ball far better than when I got there.

 

(Note: I had my Ballard book with me on the trip, and reread it for like the 50th time to help me mesh what the lesson contained. I'm obsessive about this stuff; I took my 15 practice swings with a weighted club at 7 am this morning when I went out to get the paper, and had a measuring stick between my heels to make sure they were EXACTLY 17" apart. My neighbors think I'm nuts, I'm sure, and my wife gave up on my sanity years ago!)

[dw1970]

Would also be interested in people's progress with this methodology....

[bluedot]

Would also be interested in people's progress with this methodology....

 

It's hard for me to talk about "progress", simply because I've being doing Ballard stuff for so long; it's just the way I play.

 

I will say this, though, repeating things many others have said. This is a good way to build a solid golf swing that is relatively easy on your back, that is relatively easy to fix when it goes haywire (as ALL swings do) and that holds up well under pressure. The lack of emphasis on positions and turning and the like makes it IMO a very athletic, natural, and low maintenance way to swing a golf club.