How to become a scratch golfer?

[dmb316]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1364211934' post='6686869']
[quote name='redhead' timestamp='1364169229' post='6683015']
I was wondering, is it so unbelievable difficult to reach the last part of this quest? Does it need daily training for instance. Is it lack of time, age factor, swing speed, physical build, mental, etc. Why this so small but important difference exist in your play?

A bit about me: I'm 30 years old now. I've been playing more than 3 years. I started playing relatively late. I regularly shoot low 80s, a couple times high 70s. I play on the weekend (depend on the weather) and doing practice/drill everyday at home.

So to the other scratch players out there, how long do you think it would take me to get to a scratch or somewhat close? Do you have any advice on shooting scratch golf?
[/quote]

There are 29,000,000 "golfers" in the USA ([url="http://www.statisticbrain.com/golf-player-demographic-statistics/"]http://www.statistic...hic-statistics/[/url])

5,000,000 have USGA Handicaps

50,000 have handicaps of "0" or better.

1 out of every 600 golfers is a "Scratch" player.

In my 40 years of golf, I have not met a single Scratch golfer who wasn't in the very low single-digits by the time he was 25.

I'm at 6.2 this week. The difference between me and a scratch player, is about the same as the difference between a scratch player and Tiger Woods ... light years.

Anyone who's over the age of 25 and still in double digits, has a better chance of getting struck by lightening twice, than becoming a scratch golfer.

JMOYMMV
[/quote]

just the motivation i need to prove the above statement wrong.. for me

[CSagan]

I went from a 4 to scratch in about a year. That was with 4 trips to slicefixer and a lot of practice. I think finding a good teacher is a big part of the journey. The rest is up to hard work...there are no shortcuts.

[redhead]

Thanks for your lavish comments, guys. Few negative attitudes on here, but some others are really motivating. I've summarised your responses below:

- find a good pro that you can work with long term
- set goals and basic swing ideas to work with and stick to
- have a practice plan and know what you are practicing
- play a ton, play in a bunch of tournaments as well
- review your game and work on your flaw
- rely on consistency rather than being spectacular
- no 3 putts, no penalty strokes, no worse than bogey, no hero shots
- stay patient and wish for luck

I'm not saying that I don't enjoy the game of golf. I'm just trying to scratch my own itch. For me the journey is always more interesting than the destination. I may get there or may probably not. I will most probably hit the "wall" before ever reaching scratch. But at least I'm trying.

One more question, are those scratch players share similar number/percentage on swing speed, yardage/distance, GIR, scramble, etc?

[mikpga]

[quote name='redhead' timestamp='1364229402' post='6689251']
Thanks for your lavish comments, guys. Few negative attitudes on here, but some others are really motivating. I've summarised your responses below:

- find a good pro that you can work with long term
- set goals and basic swing ideas to work with and stick to
- have a practice plan and know what you are practicing
- play a ton, play in a bunch of tournaments as well
- review your game and work on your flaw
- rely on consistency rather than being spectacular
- [u][b]no 3 putts, no penalty strokes, no worse than bogey, no hero shots[/b][/u]
- stay patient and wish for luck

I'm not saying that I don't enjoy the game of golf. I'm just trying to scratch my own itch. For me the journey is always more interesting than the destination. I may get there or may probably not. I will most probably hit the "wall" before ever reaching scratch. But at least I'm trying.

One more question, are those scratch players share similar number/percentage on swing speed, yardage/distance, GIR, scramble, etc?
[/quote] Please delete the line which I bolded and underlined.

[dpb5031]

[quote name='redhead' timestamp='1364229402' post='6689251']
Thanks for your lavish comments, guys. Few negative attitudes on here, but some others are really motivating. I've summarised your responses below:

- find a good pro that you can work with long term
- set goals and basic swing ideas to work with and stick to
- have a practice plan and know what you are practicing
- play a ton, play in a bunch of tournaments as well
- review your game and work on your flaw
- rely on consistency rather than being spectacular
- no 3 putts, no penalty strokes, no worse than bogey, no hero shots
- stay patient and wish for luck

I'm not saying that I don't enjoy the game of golf. I'm just trying to scratch my own itch. For me the journey is always more interesting than the destination. I may get there or may probably not. I will most probably hit the "wall" before ever reaching scratch. But at least I'm trying.

One more question, are those scratch players share similar number/percentage on swing speed, yardage/distance, GIR, scramble, etc?
[/quote]

Everyone is different and will take advantage of their strengths, and try to mitigate exposure to their weaknesses. I have seen players who are scratch because of great putting, and some are who are scratch in spite of poor putting.

[Thrillhouse]

I hate giving an honest assesment in these threads only to run into people who haven't actually been at that level who say "YOU'RE JUST BEING NEGATIVE!"

I'm not being negative, I'm telling you the truth. If you want a bunch of smoke blown up your @ss about how anyone can do anything regardless of aptitude then how bout you put that in the thread title so people like me don't waste our time?

If all you had to do was want it really bad then there would be a hell of a lot more than 50,000 scratch golfers in the united states.

[CSagan]

Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364232707' post='6689945']
Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.
[/quote]

Really? Anyone? Don't you see 25 handicaps all the time who hit balls non stop and take lessons from "good teachers" who never get any better because they just don't have the aptitude to do it?

I see it ALL the time. Honestly if you don't and you practice as much as I assume you do I really wonder what range you're hanging out at.

[mshills]

[quote name='dolfinack' timestamp='1364216179' post='6687173']
Fair few negative attitudes on here. I say if you want it, you can do it.
[/quote]

I see. If I just want it more, I'll get there? Got it.

Frankly, that is insulting. I'd rather have someone question my talent versus my desire.

[dmb316]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1364233171' post='6690071']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364232707' post='6689945']
Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.
[/quote]

Really? Anyone? Don't you see 25 handicaps all the time who hit balls non stop and take lessons from "good teachers" who never get any better because they just don't have the aptitude to do it?

I see it ALL the time. Honestly if you don't and you practice as much as I assume you do I really wonder what range you're hanging out at.
[/quote]

anyone can get a coach and bang balls all day and still suck long term. You can't base someone's short or long-term potential on the amount of range time they put in. That hasn't factored anything into fundamentals/technique/repetition/mindset/etc/etc.

I think what CSagan is saying is that anyone that has the right mindset and really wants to go after it, and gets the right platform to do it, can do it. How would you determine what works and what doesn't? Ask any of the scratch players how they got there. Then ask a ball-banging struggling double-digit handicapper who 'wants' to get to scratch what they believe they need to do to get there. I think after those interviews occur from multiple people from both sides, you'll get a recurring theme. And I believe those recurring attributes stated by scratch golfers are attributes that the non-scratch don't have or can't have, and I would put a year's pay into it that PHYSICAL ability isn't in that list.

I'm not saying its easy, but i would certainly believes its attainable for anyone with the right mindset, proper fundamentals, and proper practice/playing regimens.

[MonteScheinblum]

While lots of practice and desire (possibly a good swing coach) are requirements, that doesn't guarantee anything.

That is the same as someone saying they want to dunk a basketball, shoot 50% from 3 point range, run a 4.5 40 time and hit a 90 mph fastball.

Some can, some can't. Even with maximum effort, touching the rim, 35%, 4.8 seconds and 80 mph fastball is the ceiling.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1364234007' post='6690225']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1364233171' post='6690071']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364232707' post='6689945']
Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.
[/quote]

Really? Anyone? Don't you see 25 handicaps all the time who hit balls non stop and take lessons from "good teachers" who never get any better because they just don't have the aptitude to do it?

I see it ALL the time. Honestly if you don't and you practice as much as I assume you do I really wonder what range you're hanging out at.
[/quote]

anyone can get a coach and bang balls all day and still suck long term. You can't base someone's short or long-term potential on the amount of range time they put in. That hasn't factored anything into fundamentals/technique/repetition/mindset/etc/etc.

I think what CSagan is saying is that anyone that has the right mindset and really wants to go after it, and gets the right platform to do it, can do it. How would you determine what works and what doesn't? Ask any of the scratch players how they got there. Then ask a ball-banging struggling double-digit handicapper who 'wants' to get to scratch what they believe they need to do to get there. I think after those interviews occur from multiple people from both sides, you'll get a recurring theme. And I believe those recurring attributes stated by scratch golfers are attributes that the non-scratch don't have or can't have, and I would put a year's pay into it that PHYSICAL ability isn't in that list.

I'm not saying its easy, but i would certainly believes its attainable for anyone with the right mindset, proper fundamentals, and proper practice/playing regimens.
[/quote]

1. That is a long stretch and a pretty broad interpretation from the original statement the gentleman made.

2. To your "recurring theme" statement, there is a recurring theme in this thread from the majority of the people in this thread who have gotten to the scratch level or better, and in no way does it collide with the statement you made above.

I stand by my original statement. Work at it, play a lot, enjoy yourself, see where you get to. That's all I really have to say about it.

[CSagan]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1364233171' post='6690071']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364232707' post='6689945']
Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.
[/quote]

Really? Anyone? Don't you see 25 handicaps all the time who hit balls non stop and take lessons from "good teachers" who never get any better because they just don't have the aptitude to do it?

I see it ALL the time. Honestly if you don't and you practice as much as I assume you do I really wonder what range you're hanging out at.
[/quote]
I get what ur saying. I see hacks all day every day banging balls and they give each other lessons constantly then they go home and watch golf fix and thw next day they have 5 different drills to work on that address none of their problems.

So I guess I should say : in a vacuum, barring any physical limitations that a person can get there if theu want it bad enough, have a great coach and only listen to their coach....no rabbit ears on the range.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364234438' post='6690297']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1364233171' post='6690071']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364232707' post='6689945']
Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.
[/quote]

Really? Anyone? Don't you see 25 handicaps all the time who hit balls non stop and take lessons from "good teachers" who never get any better because they just don't have the aptitude to do it?

I see it ALL the time. Honestly if you don't and you practice as much as I assume you do I really wonder what range you're hanging out at.
[/quote]
I get what ur saying. I see hacks all day every day banging balls and they give each other lessons constantly then they go home and watch golf fix and thw next day they have 5 different drills to work on that address none of their problems.

So I guess I should say : in a vacuum, barring any physical limitations that a person can get there if theu want it bad enough, have a great coach and only listen to their coach....no rabbit ears on the range.
[/quote]

I'm not talking about giving themselves lessons, I'm talking about people I see who bang balls and take lessons from good teachers who I know well and know are good teachers.

They have all the correct information and the correct way to get better, and to their credit they often do get better! But do they get to scratch? Not even close! And it isn't from lack of effort, they are legitimately grinding at it, they just don't have the aptitude to get beyond the level they get to.

[J_Tizzle]

Its too difficult to say yes you can or no you can't on that question. So I'll say, maybe you can, but once the motions are figured out and you can move the ball forward in a consistent shape and shoot a reasonable score. The big drop in score doesn't come from more balls on the range, but your mental approach and short game practice. Even if you do all of that, it still doesn't guarantee you'll ever be anything much below what you are now, but in my opinion, thats what it takes.

It took me 15+ years of playing a lot (and a lot of legit stroke play tournaments including HS, walked on a college team for about 2 weeks, and statewide AM events) to where I got down to the mythical "scratch" (technically it was a +1.5), and I basically lived golf for the first 10 years of it.

[sonofagunn]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1364234243' post='6690267']
While lots of practice and desire (possibly a good swing coach) are requirements, that doesn't guarantee anything.

That is the same as someone saying they want to dunk a basketball, shoot 50% from 3 point range, run a 4.5 40 time and hit a 90 mph fastball.

Some can, some can't. Even with maximum effort, touching the rim, 35%, 4.8 seconds and 80 mph fastball is the ceiling.
[/quote]

Golf is similar to shooting from 3 point range. People can easily see why they can't dunk or run a faster 40 time, because they just physically can't jump that high or move their legs fast enough. But anyone can make a 3 pointer. Why can't they practice more and make a higher percentage of them?

Golf is similar. Almost all golfers have the physical tools to hit shots that are good enough to get around a golf course at par. But hitting those shots EVERY TIME you swing is what holds them back.

Practice is the obvious answer to making something more consistent, so why is there a ceiling with 3 pointers or the golf swing? That's not obvious to people.

[CSagan]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1364234687' post='6690325']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364234438' post='6690297']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1364233171' post='6690071']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364232707' post='6689945']
Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.
[/quote]

Really? Anyone? Don't you see 25 handicaps all the time who hit balls non stop and take lessons from "good teachers" who never get any better because they just don't have the aptitude to do it?

I see it ALL the time. Honestly if you don't and you practice as much as I assume you do I really wonder what range you're hanging out at.
[/quote]
I get what ur saying. I see hacks all day every day banging balls and they give each other lessons constantly then they go home and watch golf fix and thw next day they have 5 different drills to work on that address none of their problems.

So I guess I should say : in a vacuum, barring any physical limitations that a person can get there if theu want it bad enough, have a great coach and only listen to their coach....no rabbit ears on the range.
[/quote]

I'm not talking about giving themselves lessons, I'm talking about people I see who bang balls and take lessons from good teachers who I know well and know are good teachers.

They have all the correct information and the correct way to get better, and to their credit they often do get better! But do they get to scratch? Not even close! And it isn't from lack of effort, they are legitimately grinding at it, they just don't have the aptitude to get beyond the level they get to.
[/quote]

How many scratch or better players have those coaches produced? There are some that produce a hundred over their career, and many that produce none. There are some that produce many tour pros....think of the haas boys....they werent any more of an athlete than most kids....but they had jam up coaching their whole life.

[Big Ben]

[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364232707' post='6689945']
Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.
[/quote]I am not being negative when I say not a chance, sorry. My question is how many of you commenting are scratch or aspiring to be scratch and extremely close? I've worked towards this goal for years and years and just now feel I actually have the potential to get close. I've played since I was 7! I'm by no means saying it can't be done I'm just saying it takes a very special player to consistantly play this game at a very finite level and thats OK with me now which may ironically be why I'm playing well...BB

[BrianL99]

These threads are always consistent in their naivety. It always seems to be a 30-45 year old double-digit handicap, who's going to get to scratch.

The grownups who are in single digits, already know it's nearly impossible.

The last be thread about getting scratch went on for about a month with all the same baloney & the guy basically disappeared & quite playing golf. (http://golfshot.com/members/0332081340).

You're 30 years old, a 12 handicap & want to be scratch? Quit your job and plan to spend the next year or two, doing nothing but playing, taking lessons & practicing ... if you can't do that, you have a better shot at winning the LOTTO.

[dpb5031]

I think physical ability does have quite a bit to do with it. It's the nature versus nurture, talent versus work-ethic argument.

I think Gladwell somewhat eluded to it in his book Outliers. You don't have to be the most physically gifted to achieve greatness, but you have to be physically gifted "enough."

Same thing applies to becoming scratch. There is a minimum requirement in terms of physical ability. If you meet that minimum and then put in the hard work, good coach, etc., etc., then you can probably get to scratch.

Of course, some folks have more than that minimum, and don't have to work nearly as hard to be really good. We call them "gifted," or use terms like great athlete, or super hand-eye coordination, etc.

[Obee]

I first played golf at 16 years old. Played maybe a dozen rounds from 16 to 19. Hurt my shoulder playing baseball in college and took up golf seriously at age 20. Was a low single digit player in two years. Was scratch by 25. Was consistently below scratch at 30. Took another couple years after that to become a truly competitive amateur where I could take my "country club game" into big tournaments and compete with the best amateurs in the country.

I'm 45 now, and while I can still hit all the shots I hit ten years ago, I'm going through a very difficult time with anxiety and yips with my putting an chipping/pitching right now. Trying to work that out. I'm now just a 0 to +1 player, and that's just not good enough to seriously compete at the elite mid-amateur level.

Here's an article I wrote quite a few years ago:


[center][b]Advice for the Low Handicap Golfer[/b][/center]
[center][b]On Taking His Game to the Next Level[/b][/center]

My initial advice to most golfers who want to become better [i]players[/i], is to actually [i]play[/i] more. After all, we play Golf, not “Golf Swing.” You get no points for the prettiest or most “technically sound” golf swing. You win or compete by getting the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes possible, and the list of world-class players with unorthodox golf swings is long and getting longer every year.

If you are reading this, then you are most likely already an accomplished golfer. What you need to learn is how to get the most out of your game – not how to have the swing of a PGA Tour pro. There are very few miracles in life, meaning few (if any) people who have been playing 2-handicap golf for 10 years will ever miraculously find the key to the perfect golf swing and start playing as a +4 to +5 index (which converts to a course handicap or +6 to +8), which is about where you need to be to compete on the Nationwide or PGA Tour level. That kind of swing change just isn’t going to happen.

Which is why I say it’s about learning how to [i]play[/i] the game and not learning some new golf [i]swing[/i]. Start learning how to get the most out of what you already have instead of relying on the pipe dream that some day you will “fix” your golf swing. Does that make sense? If not, then this article is not for you.

A few things before I get into the specifics: Play as much as you can, and play as many tournaments as possible. (I can't emphasize this enough). When you're not playing a tournament, always make sure you are playing a competitive match with someone and make sure you have some money on the line. And make it enough so that if you lose, it stings a bit.

Second, try to learn something from every single experience on the golf course. Pay attention to how you feel, what your tendencies are, and what your self-talk is like. For instance:[list=1]
[*]What did you feel like when you hit that 100 yard sand wedge to 5 feet?
[*]How about before you hit it?
[*]What happened when you dumped that shot into the lake?
[*]How did your state of mind prior to the shot influence the outcome, if at all?
[*]What did you say to yourself prior to shoving that tee shot out of bounds late in that one round when you were 2-under par and about to beat your personal best?
[*]Why did you snap-hook that 3-iron into the water from that ball-below-your-feet lie? Isn’t the ball supposed to right off ball-below-your-feet lies?
[*]Why do I always miss left from uphill lies?
[*]Why do I always miss left from [i]downhill[/i] lies? (Yes, the dominant miss for many good players from uphill [i]and[/i] downhill lies can be a pull, but for different reasons).
[*]Why do I leave so many 50 yard pitch shots short?
[*]Why do I have so much trouble on fast greens? Slow greens? Big breakers?
[/list]
These are just a sampling of the kinds of questions you should ask yourself. However, to even ask them to begin with, you must [b]pay attention[/b] on the golf course. Don't be judgmental – that’s a killer. Just pay attention and learn from yourself without beating yourself up and being overly critical.

As far as I can tell, to become a legitimate regionally or nationally competitive amateur golfer (generally in the +1 to +4 index range month in and month out), you need to master the following:

1) Drive the ball relatively straight and relatively long, so work on the driver. And you should be comfortable on right-to-left holes and left-to-right holes. This is a must. I play with lots of players that can only hit one shot with the driver – this is a recipe for disaster under pressure on a hole that doesn’t fit your eye.

You must, at the very minimum, be able to hit the ball straight when called upon if what you normally do is draw or fade the ball. Too many holes just do not fit a draw or a fade. If you can’t work the ball both ways, at least be able to hit it more-or-less straight when necessary.

2) Hit the ball solidly with reasonable accuracy and repeatability from 130 yards to 179 yards, so work a bit on your ball striking with 6-iron to pitching wedge. But don't get too caught up spending time here. Most players will yield better results by spending your practice time on the driver, full and three-quarter wedges, putting, and chipping/pitching.

3) Be a great full wedge player (80-120 yards). This means when you have gap wedge, sand wedge, or lob wedge in your hands from the fairway, you should expect to get the ball within 30 feet almost every time. Tour average from 75 to 100 yards is 18 feet. If you want to be a scratch player, you should certainly average 25 feet or so, which means [i]eliminating[/i] the horrible wedge shots from your bag. Absolutely zero: chunks, skulls, shanks, or duffs.

You must be rock solid with a wedge in your hands and feel like you have a better chance of knocking it in the hole, than missing the green. Now will you occasionally blade one or chunk one? Sure, but for most scratch and below golfers, that should be a very rare occurrence indeed.

4) Be able to hit the ball solidly from 180 to 220. You certainly don't need to spend much time here, you really only need to be able to make consistent contact such that your [i]distance is repeatable[/i] with the longer clubs. You're not going to hit a lot of greens from this distance, so don't fret when you miss from here. Just use your short game to get up and down, and try to stay away from the short side – especially in tournament play since the rough is usually up in big tournaments.

One thing to add here: Recent (since 2010?) statistical analysis has revealed that one of the biggest differences between top players is their ability on longer shots. While this is true, it does not invalidate my above point, which is: Learn to hit the long clubs [b]solidly[/b], but don’t feel like you have to hit the green every time from 200 yards – even the very best in the world don’t do that. You do, though, need to be able to compress the ball and keep it away from trouble from 180 – 220 in order to play true scratch or below golf.

5) Have a good to great short game. Of course the closer to great you are, the worse other parts of your game can be. I'm only a decent driver of the ball (relatively straight, but on the short side), but I was, for a while, a considerably better [i]player[/i] than most scratch amateurs because my short game was very, very good. Inside 130, I hit the ball very close, and there wasn’t a short-game shot that I wasn’t comfortable hitting. No lie, no pin, no situation ever scared me around the greens, and that’s where you need to get to if you want to play your best.

So how do you get there with the short game?

Spend lots of time on the practice green, and when you’re there, use your imagination! Practice some short pitches and chips, and ask yourself how many different ways there are to play the same shot – then execute each and every one of them. Experiment, and don't be afraid to look bad. Just get creative and do it! High, low, cut spin, go spin, bump it through the fringe, flop it up and stop it on a dime. You name it. If you're good enough to be a 3, you can play all of these shots, but can you play them when it counts? That's the question. If you don't practice them, you don't own them. And to have a great short game, you need to [i]own[/i] all the different shots.

One quick caveat: Do not fall in love with the flop shot. It’s a valuable tool to have in your “golf belt,” but it is over-used by many near scratch players that learn it and then want to use it every time there’s an opportunity. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t use the lob wedge – I’m saying don’t use it to flop the ball, unless the situation demands it.

6) Be a good lag putter, which means controlling distance and seeing the line on longish putts. The longer and tougher a putt is, the more conservative you must be with your line. And when I say conservative, I mean erring on the high side. On many tough putts, you should really visualize the ball slowing down and literally trickling into the hole from the very top of the breaking point.

The reason? Ball coming in from the high side are working [i]toward[/i] the hole, whereas balls on the low side are working [i]away[/i] from the hole. It’s amazing, but this seemingly simple little distinction eludes so many otherwise good players.

7) Be good inside 6 feet with the putter. All I can say here is: Practice, practice, practice. Groove a stroke, and become confident with it. Practice at home, practice at work, practice anywhere you can. There is not “correct” putting stroke, period. Find one that works for you and that you feel comfortable with and groove it. And don’t be afraid to switch to a mid-putter or a long-putter if necessary to fight off the occasional bout with the yips. I’ve done that several times in my life, always with excellent success.

I also highly recommend keeping detailed stats on your rounds. It really helps when you can look back over 40 rounds or more at your strengths and weaknesses, since many of us have a skewed view of our games. For instance, if you think you have a pretty good short game, but you're only getting up and down 45% of the time from inside 30 yards, then you're really not as good as you think. Not saying this is you, just that keeping meticulous, detailed stats will tell you where you really [i]are[/i], not where you [i]think[/i] you are.

Finally, read plenty of stuff on the mental game:

Golf is Not a Game of Perfect
Extraordinary Golf
Pressure Golf
Zen Golf
Going Low
Golf: How Good Do You Want to Be?
et al.

I saved this for last, but at the near-scratch level, developing and improving the mental game is probably the most important. Learning to control your emotions and your mind on the golf course is absolutely crucial to playing your best golf. There are thousands of golfers out there with the ability to compete at the professional or regional/national amateur level that will never know how good they can be, because they refuse to conquer the inconsistent thinking that leads to so many of their poor decisions and shots.

I hope this has been helpful.

David Ober

[JJK947]

Nice post Obee, that is about as close to a perfect answer that you'll see to this question. The main qualification being in the title: "Low handicap golfer", if you're not already a low handicap (low to mid single digit) scratch golf should not even be in your mind at that point. Secondly, it's nice to have the perspective of someone who is there and beyond already. If you haven't been to scratch or better, unfortunately your opinion really has no credibility. You can tell who these people are because if you've been there, you know it's not as simple as "wanting it really bad".

I'll add something else, the mental game is the biggest factor in getting from say 5 to scratch, along with a solid short game. You need to find the right mental state to be successful and it varies by the individual. Some people thrive in a pressured environment and others in a more relaxed one. You need to get in your "zone" and not let anything get you out of it. I know personally I definitely play better when the pressure/importance is elevated. This could be as simple as playing for money or a small match with friends or playing in tournaments. With this in mind I set my standards extremely high so I never reach that point of satisfaction which might lead to regression. I've actually been able to lower my handicap in the last few years despite playing/practicing much less.

[nickyd]

[quote name='dolfinack' timestamp='1364174757' post='6684203']
Given your work rate and the progress you've made, I might suggest with some more hard work you could potentially make it in 4-5 years.

The standard "It's different for everyone blah blah" caveats apply, obvs.

I'd say nail the short game area if you have access to it. That's where most of the hard work is done. If you can promise yourself that you will not miss a putt from 3 feet, that's a good standard to aim for whilst practicing. Chipping becomes a gift when you know 3 feet is all you need. But try to hole every one (or rather know that you will - see Bob Rotella and the story of the basketball player).

And rely on consistency rather than being spectacular. Boring and monotonous are the words most low rounds could be described with. The best players have long swallowed their pride. They know when to chip out sideways, play more club (ALWAYS play more club than you think), and aren't shy about doing whatever it takes to get the ball in hole. Who cares what people think? Low scores speak for themselves.

Finding a pro that you can work with long term will help. Set goals and basic swing ideas to work with and stick to. Massive deviations from the swing that suits your body will hurt you the most. That last bit might be the most effective advice. It is, after all the reason we see so many different swings on tour. Do what feels right for your body within the basic fundamentals of the swing. Personalisation = consistency = boring old low scores
[/quote]

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1364235506' post='6690453']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364232707' post='6689945']
Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.
[/quote]I am not being negative when I say not a chance, sorry. My question is how many of you commenting are scratch or aspiring to be scratch and extremely close? I've worked towards this goal for years and years and just now feel I actually have the potential to get close. I've played since I was 7! I'm by no means saying it can't be done I'm just saying it takes a very special player to consistantly play this game at a very finite level and thats OK with me now which may ironically be why I'm playing well...BB
[/quote]
CSagan is better than scratch. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him play in the US Mid Am this year.

[SheriffBooth]

Nice post and nice article, Obee.

[pingB]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1364234243' post='6690267']
While lots of practice and desire (possibly a good swing coach) are requirements, that doesn't guarantee anything.

That is the same as someone saying they want to dunk a basketball, shoot 50% from 3 point range, run a 4.5 40 time and hit a 90 mph fastball.

Some can, some can't. Even with maximum effort, touching the rim, 35%, 4.8 seconds and 80 mph fastball is the ceiling.
[/quote]

DIfference here is that drugs could get you to those things..

which is not so in golf.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364235435' post='6690443']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1364234687' post='6690325']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364234438' post='6690297']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1364233171' post='6690071']

Really? Anyone? Don't you see 25 handicaps all the time who hit balls non stop and take lessons from "good teachers" who never get any better because they just don't have the aptitude to do it?

I see it ALL the time. Honestly if you don't and you practice as much as I assume you do I really wonder what range you're hanging out at.
[/quote]
I get what ur saying. I see hacks all day every day banging balls and they give each other lessons constantly then they go home and watch golf fix and thw next day they have 5 different drills to work on that address none of their problems.

So I guess I should say : in a vacuum, barring any physical limitations that a person can get there if theu want it bad enough, have a great coach and only listen to their coach....no rabbit ears on the range.
[/quote]

I'm not talking about giving themselves lessons, I'm talking about people I see who bang balls and take lessons from good teachers who I know well and know are good teachers.

They have all the correct information and the correct way to get better, and to their credit they often do get better! But do they get to scratch? Not even close! And it isn't from lack of effort, they are legitimately grinding at it, they just don't have the aptitude to get beyond the level they get to.
[/quote]

How many scratch or better players have those coaches produced? There are some that produce a hundred over their career, and many that produce none. There are some that produce many tour pros....think of the haas boys....they werent any more of an athlete than most kids....but they had jam up coaching their whole life.
[/quote]

I'm thinking of two off the top of my head who have produced dozens of college players, some who have gone on to play professionally, as well as dozens of low handicap amateurs.

When we get right down do it what you're promoting in this thread isn't in any way quantifiable. You need to believe that everyone who pays several thousand dollars to go on trips to see your teacher will have limitless potential because you need to justify the investment.

You can go on about his track record of getting people to low single digits but plenty of other teachers have done the same, that situation is far from unique and in no way does it guarantee the student anything. You want to believe that you're the only one here who has worked with a quality instructor, but many of us have been around long enough to know that there are more than a couple out there.

When we get right down to it what you're saying in this thread has nothing to do with your experience or any quantifiable evidence whatsoever. It is entirely about an agenda that you NEED to promote to justify your investment of time and money.

[Big Ben]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1364241340' post='6691301']
[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1364235506' post='6690453']
[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1364232707' post='6689945']
Barring any physical issues, if you just have a good coach and want it bad enough i feel like anyone could get there.
[/quote]I am not being negative when I say not a chance, sorry. My question is how many of you commenting are scratch or aspiring to be scratch and extremely close? I've worked towards this goal for years and years and just now feel I actually have the potential to get close. I've played since I was 7! I'm by no means saying it can't be done I'm just saying it takes a very special player to consistantly play this game at a very finite level and thats OK with me now which may ironically be why I'm playing well...BB
[/quote]
CSagan is better than scratch. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him play in the US Mid Am this year.
[/quote]That's awesome!! I love it...BB

[vman]

Not everyone can become a scratch golfer,even with desire,determination and good coaching.They may come close with diligent work but it's not the be all and end all.It's a goal for some and hopefully they enjoy trying to get there,Obee made a great post about what's required,but it's certainly not achievable for everyone.This isn't to be negative and trying to get there is admirable but you require some talent,flexibility,hand eye coordination, a good mental approach,a desire and the time to play and practise and a competitive instinct.Follow this up with an ability to strike the ball consistently,while controlling trajectory and add a solid short game and scratch is right around the corner.

[Obee]

[quote name='vman' timestamp='1364246506' post='6692185']
Not everyone can become a scratch golfer,even with desire,determination and good coaching.They may come close with diligent work but it's not the be all and end all.It's a goal for some and hopefully they enjoy trying to get there,Obee made a great post about what's required,but it's certainly not achievable for everyone.This isn't to be negative and trying to get there is admirable but you require some talent,flexibility,hand eye coordination, a good mental approach,a desire and the time to play and practise and a competitive instinct.Follow this up with an ability to strike the ball consistently,while controlling trajectory and add a solid short game and scratch is right around the corner.
[/quote]

The ability to make consistent (near) center-face contact while swinging a golf club at 85 - 100% of one's max clubhead speed is [b]not[/b] something that everyone has the ability to do. To my mind, that's as much of a "fact" as 2+2=4.

Hand-eye coordination is divvied out on a continuum basis, just like every other human skill. Some people are born with the ability to hit stationary and moving targets well, others are not. Some people were born with an abundance of fast-twitch muscle, others were not. I will never run the 40 in under 5 seconds, and I will never be able to slam-dunk a basketball even though I'm 6-foot tall and there are those among us that are 5'6" and can slam dunk a basketball. The 5'6" guy was born with fast-twitch muscle that I simply lack. End of story. Through practice, coaching, hard-work, and determination, I can learn to jump [b]higher[/b], and thereby become the best jumper that I can possibly be, but I will never, ever slam dunk a basketball on a 10-foot rim.

A person with an IQ of 60 will never be able to do calculus (doesn't mean that person can't postively contribute to society in many other ways). Most people do not have the athletic ability to hit a 95mph fastball, irrespective of the amount of time you spend coaching them -- they just don't have the physical tools.

We can all get better, but we also all have a "max ability" in just about everything. Why anyone would dispute this fact is beyond me.

Every amateur golfer that I know that is scratch/below-scratch is a fantastic athlete who plays other sports well. Every single one. Most lettered in one or multiple sports in high school and/or college (other than golf). Most can throw any ball accurately and with "zip." Most can play basketball at a mid to high level. And most can play every single racket sport very well to expertly, yet somehow we think that golf can be "mastered" by anyone.

Nothing could be further from the truth in the sports world. Just look around you at the millions of golfers out there and ask yourself why most are so miserably bad at the game. It has nothing to do with coaching -- it's due to the fact that the game is damn difficult to master.