Rounds with a Vintage Bag

[Hickory4ever]

I played in a hickory event today. We were at Cedarhurst Golf Club, celebrating 100 years, introducing some very motivated members to historical play. They loved the experience and as usual were surprised at how well the old sticks played.

 

I played my Tom Stewart irons from the early 1920’s with a couple period woods  and had a good round (82) on a challenging old track. The Club President in his 70’s did very well with my early 1920’s MacGregor irons and MacGregor woods, with an 84. The other newbie in my group was a young fellow in his late 40’s. He is a solid player and did my 1928 Walter Hagens proud with an 80 despite a closing double bogey.

 

Not a bad vintage day. Playing 100 year old clubs is fun, even better on a course of similar vintage.

[NRJyzr]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:16 AM, Hickory4ever said:

I know that I am a rare bird in that my vintage sets are played more than my modern clubs. With vintage sets, hickory or classic I make sure that the shaft flex I play is appropriate (in my case regular) and I generally have no problem hitting them. Personally, I would never change out the shafts for anything lighter since the clubs were designed for heavier shafts and that would drastically alter the SW for a player like me that relies on feel.
 

There is a lot of talk on here about playing graphite shafts in irons to overcome injuries. Despite being 68 and having my share of injuries and aches, still prefer steel over graphite. I play at least six days a week and found slowing my swing down to 80% accomplished the objective of reducing the potential for injury. Many of my friends around my age (68) still try to swing too hard and they are much more prone to injury.

 

Today is my first day off after playing 19 straight days, and only one game in a power cart. I am not an athletic specimen for my age, I wear a custom knee brace on my right knee and walk with a noticeable limp at times. I have learned to dial it back and play within myself and it works well for me. I have some arthritis due to several hip and shoulder injuries in the past and taking a more leisurely swing has kept things in check. I try to play as my friends say “boring old man golf”.

 

 

 

Using graphite is about vibration reduction, preventing the irritation that's produced from striking a ball with a club, or even hitting the ground.  It's not about shaft/weight reduction (or injury prevention), there are plenty of steel shaft options available for those who wish to play lighter clubs.

 

And, a number of heavier graphite options, for those who wish to use heavier clubs.

 

Think Scott McCarron in the late 90s.  He *had* to play with UST Tour Weight shafts in his irons, or not be able to play.

 

This is the sole reason I've swapped to graphite.  It was made blindingly obvious in the last round I played with steel shafted irons, nearly had to quit at the turn.  I swapped to a graphite shafted set and my wrists and elbows quit screaming within a couple holes.

 

The old mantra of graphite shafts being light and soft, used to generate more distance for slower swingspeed players, is long gone.  

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by NRJyzr

[Jiggered]

Recently played nine holes with Slazenger Ben Hogan Plus 1 Bounce Sole irons and played very well for me.

 

 

[Hickory4ever]

We have a regular hickory game every Friday and today the weather was perfect. It is a common event to have new people try the old game for the first time and I had invited a new member of the GHSC (Golf Historical Society of Canada) to join us. He is a low digit handicap and the Canadian Masters Long Driving Champion. I loaned him my Walter Hagen (1928) set because it has the stiffest shafts of my collection and a Wilsonian Brassie for the same reason.

 

Like virtually everyone that tries hickory, he was surprised at how playable the clubs were. He has a smooth powerful swing and amazing control which resulted in a mid 70’s score and hit the ball longer than anyone I have ever seen.  He was hitting the Driving Iron in excess of 240 yards and the Brassie over 275 and it looked effortless. He also got on well with the Mills putter.

 

I played my typical steady old man golf game and just enjoyed the show. I love the vintage game.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

19 hours ago, Jiggered said:

Recently played nine holes with Slazenger Ben Hogan Plus 1 Bounce Sole irons and played very well for me.

 

 

 

Can't believe how many putts you had come so close without dropping. I counted two lip-outs and 4 on the edge.

[cold_war_era_golfer]

Not sure if I'm doing myself a disservice with this approach with not sticking with one set.  But last month I shared a round where I showed the '63-64 "spade face" Synchro Dyneds. 

They are in REALLY nice shape and I do believe everything should be played and I'm not one to put things on display but for my morning rounds at the par 3 where I will often play 4-5 balls a hole and work out the short irons I thought I'd find a set with some more wear. 

 

Well I did and this set came with the '63-64 pitching wedge rather than the 10i my other set has.   This is the only pitching wedge I've seen from a set like this and of course I REALLY like it.  

 

I have to say I really like these Spaldings more and more each time I get out with them.

I replaced my ever present MacGregor persimmon with what I can tell is either a '59 or '60 Gene Littler 2 1/2w.  I got the set of Littlers 1, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 and quality wise they seem right up there with the Macs.  They don't have the Top Flite shafts but the True Temper Pro Fits which you find on the '58 or '59 Wilsons.

 

[Jiggered]

On 6/4/2022 at 3:35 PM, cold_war_era_golfer said:

Not sure if I'm doing myself a disservice with this approach with not sticking with one set.  But last month I shared a round where I showed the '63-64 "spade face" Synchro Dyneds. 

They are in REALLY nice shape and I do believe everything should be played and I'm not one to put things on display but for my morning rounds at the par 3 where I will often play 4-5 balls a hole and work out the short irons I thought I'd find a set with some more wear. 

 

Well I did and this set came with the '63-64 pitching wedge rather than the 10i my other set has.   This is the only pitching wedge I've seen from a set like this and of course I REALLY like it.  

 

I have to say I really like these Spaldings more and more each time I get out with them.

I replaced my ever present MacGregor persimmon with what I can tell is either a '59 or '60 Gene Littler 2 1/2w.  I got the set of Littlers 1, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 and quality wise they seem right up there with the Macs.  They don't have the Top Flite shafts but the True Temper Pro Fits which you find on the '58 or '59 Wilsons.

 

 

 

One of the pleasures of collecting is the opportunity to play with loads of amazing classic clubs, I completely change my bag pretty much once a week. 

 

Sure I could knock a shot or two off my handicap index if I stuck to one set but what would that give me but a number? I'd much sooner experience as many different clubs as possible from golf's golden age. 🙂

[BIG STU]

2 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

One of the pleasures of collecting is the opportunity to play with loads of amazing classic clubs, I completely change my bag pretty much once a week. 

 

Sure I could knock a shot or two off my handicap index if I stuck to one set but what would that give me but a number? I'd much sooner experience as many different clubs as possible from golf's golden age. 🙂

I have been told the same thing about handicap index--- But at this age and stage of life I do not keep a handicap so to speak and do not play stipulated events nor care to do either. If not for the Saturday Shootout I would not play the metals at all. Like you I look at my vast collection and think hmmm wonder if I can hit this or that today? All a part of my fun now

[Hickory4ever]

On 6/4/2022 at 10:35 AM, cold_war_era_golfer said:

Not sure if I'm doing myself a disservice with this approach with not sticking with one set.  But last month I shared a round where I showed the '63-64 "spade face" Synchro Dyneds. 

They are in REALLY nice shape and I do believe everything should be played and I'm not one to put things on display but for my morning rounds at the par 3 where I will often play 4-5 balls a hole and work out the short irons I thought I'd find a set with some more wear. 

 

Well I did and this set came with the '63-64 pitching wedge rather than the 10i my other set has.   This is the only pitching wedge I've seen from a set like this and of course I REALLY like it.  

 

I have to say I really like these Spaldings more and more each time I get out with them.

I replaced my ever present MacGregor persimmon with what I can tell is either a '59 or '60 Gene Littler 2 1/2w.  I got the set of Littlers 1, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 and quality wise they seem right up there with the Macs.  They don't have the Top Flite shafts but the True Temper Pro Fits which you find on the '58 or '59 Wilsons.

 

I am in agreement with Jiggered, I play for the love of the game and quite frankly could care less about my handicap index (both of them). I played my modern (by my standards) clubs two days in a row for the first time in ages today. In a typical week I play at least three sets of clubs from three different eras and would not change a thing, it is a blast.

 

Before someone gets there nose out of joint about the two handicaps, they are totally legitimate and endorsed by Golf Canada. We are the first country in the golf world (that we know about) to have a hickory handicap in addition to one for modern clubs. If your interested, the difference is about four on the index, largely driven by the rating of the appropriate tee blocks.

 

Once you get used to switching back and forth, adaptation is easy. I know my lofts for each set, swing with a smooth tempo (playing hickory makes it easy) and my scores are comparable. 
 

 

[Hickory4ever]

15 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

I have been told the same thing about handicap index--- But at this age and stage of life I do not keep a handicap so to speak and do not play stipulated events nor care to do either. If not for the Saturday Shootout I would not play the metals at all. Like you I look at my vast collection and think hmmm wonder if I can hit this or that today? All a part of my fun now

I have never bought a golf club that I did not intend on trying, my view is that they should be played and appreciated. Golf clubs belong on a golf course. If aging golfers can play, why not old clubs?

[BIG STU]

7 minutes ago, Hickory4ever said:

I am in agreement with Jiggered, I play for the love of the game and quite frankly could care less about my handicap index (both of them). I played my modern (by my standards) clubs two days in a row for the first time in ages today. In a typical week I play at least three sets of clubs from three different eras and would not change a thing, it is a blast.

 

Before someone gets there nose out of joint about the two handicaps, they are totally legitimate and endorsed by Golf Canada. We are the first country in the golf world (that we know about) to have a hickory handicap in addition to one for modern clubs. If your interested, the difference is about four on the index, largely driven by the rating of the appropriate tee blocks.

 

Once you get used to switching back and forth, adaptation is easy. I know my lofts for each set, swing with a smooth tempo (playing hickory makes it easy) and my scores are comparable. 
 

 

I quit keeping a stipulated handicap years ago. It was part of the membership package at my old club. Some guy said mine was not legit because I used non approved clubs ie: Mac VIPs etc. That guy was a loud mouth and no one liked him anyhow. Besides I told him I do not play in club events anyhow because I do not have AM status. Several of us around here keep an informal handicap. A friend who has physicl issues but is a computer whiz has the software and does them for like $10 a year. He does not charge me per say but I will bring him over a 6 pack of Miller Lite every now and then. So I do have 2 handicaps a vintage one and a regular one. But since I have been hurt I have posted few scores.

[BIG STU]

5 minutes ago, Hickory4ever said:

I have never bought a golf club that I did not intend on trying, my view is that they should be played and appreciated. Golf clubs belong on a golf course. If aging golfers can play, why not old clubs?

I have pulled some from the scrap pile that I knew I could not hit but I had a home in mind when I pulled them. LOL I have not been to the yard or to Goodwill for over 2 years now. I have made a few trades but no purchases. I am thinning the heard. I have too much stuff and the exra storage unit across the road is starting to cost me now. Funny how when one goes on disability and fixed income how things change. We are comfortable and not broke but I can no longer justify the expense every month of the rental unit

[Dr. Block]

My golf game has been the subject of my dedication lately. With this newest recession battering my business, it’s been a welcome place to get lost in. Since a forced vacation after I completely golfed myself out last summer, I've been bitten by the bug again and working hard to bring a ballooned 7 index back down to a number I can feel more respectable about. Not that a single digit cap isn’t something to be proud of, but it wasn’t that many years ago that I was a scratch. Many hours have been spent on swing-path and tempo drills on the range, and twice that amount of time has been spent in the short game area and on the putting green. For a 40 day stretch from mid April through beginning June I played at least 9 holes or practiced every single day.

 

Seeing much of the same golf, which is to say golf that showed lots of good shots (and potential), but too many bad holes to put a score together, I finally said to myself, "forget all this, I'm getting my old school bats out." "It's time to enjoy the experience and stop grinding on the results!" So, the last few rounds have been with my Penna persimmon woods, Wilson 76 Staff blades, Ping Eye 2 SW, and Ping Answer putter. There really isn't any other way to say it for me, golf becomes, "magical" again with these clubs. I'm sure it will fade, anytime you think you've caught lightning in a bottle with this game, the bottle always has a hole, or five in it. But...for now, I'm going to enjoy the sounds, vibrations, and ball flight provided by the tools used to play this game we love for the largest part of its existence. Oh, and I shot a 77 yesterday. First proper round under 80 in awhile. From 6800 yards (the back tees at my club) with gleaming chrome muscle, traditional lofts, two wedges, and persimmon.   
 

Not sure if it’s my flippy handsy move, but I think I play my best golf with these clubs. That shouldn’t make sense, but it does. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Dr. Block

[Dr. Block]

[SnowbirdTom]

There was a discussion somewhere here about the Jack Nicklaus MacGregor golf balls from BITD.  I just found one on the course today!  For your entertainment, here it is. 
 

[smashdn]

Snuck around the front nine the other day in 38.  Weird for me was I had two birdies.  It is a rare day I get shots back.  Two birds, two bogeys, one double the rest par.  Walking with the Hogan bag.

 

Driver was not behaving by any stretch but I was hitting low worm burners which actually ran out not terribly bad given how dry it was the other day.  Makes a world of difference when the driver is somewhat on the map.

[Dr. Block]

2 hours ago, smashdn said:

Snuck around the front nine the other day in 38.  Weird for me was I had two birdies.  It is a rare day I get shots back.  Two birds, two bogeys, one double the rest par.  Walking with the Hogan bag.

 

Driver was not behaving by any stretch but I was hitting low worm burners which actually ran out not terribly bad given how dry it was the other day.  Makes a world of difference when the driver is somewhat on the map.

I have to second the driver on the map difference. Whatever I sacrifice in distance by using the old persimmon I more than get back in accuracy on my mishits. That good ol gear effect.  

[smashdn]

My mishit is a top.  Same as with my modern driver, difference being is I can get the ball on the bigger face of the modern driver.

 

I need some range time with both drivers.  That was only my second 9 hole round of the year.  For some reason I am hitting my irons stupid good right now.  The two birdies were combo of good iron shot and lucky putts that rolled in.

[cold_war_era_golfer]

Out again with more Spalding Top Flites. According to the Maltby guide the 1961-62 Professionals are essentially the same as the 1963-64 “spade faces”.  They are close but the design on the back of the blade is slightly different.   

 

I put a MacGregor persimmon back in the bag.

 

I’m pleasantly surprised with these irons.  There is something really special about Synchro Dyneds.  

[BIG STU]

14 hours ago, Dr. Block said:

I have to second the driver on the map difference. Whatever I sacrifice in distance by using the old persimmon I more than get back in accuracy on my mishits. That good ol gear effect.  

Yep I can pretty much keep the persimmon in play on a mis hit. I do not elevate the persimmon as much as I used to due to loss of swing speed but I get plenty of roll out that makes up for it distance wise. I can tell by feel I am hitting the persimmon solid just do not have a lot of elevation which it does not bother me in the least. Had some hack up on the range the other week remark I was not getting the ball very high. One of those idiot types that does not have a clue. I asked him if he wanted to try it? No No No he replied I told him then STFU then and leave me alone.  I am not normally a harsh guy but this guy had the whole end of the range and I tend to get in the left corner by myself. But no he had to crowd right up on me and then make comments. My persimmon range time is my zone time where I just savor the sounds and feel of the wood and I do not like to be bothered 

[Dr. Block]

9 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Yep I can pretty much keep the persimmon in play on a mis hit. I do not elevate the persimmon as much as I used to due to loss of swing speed but I get plenty of roll out that makes up for it distance wise. I can tell by feel I am hitting the persimmon solid just do not have a lot of elevation which it does not bother me in the least. Had some hack up on the range the other week remark I was not getting the ball very high. One of those idiot types that does not have a clue. I asked him if he wanted to try it? No No No he replied I told him then STFU then and leave me alone.  I am not normally a harsh guy but this guy had the whole end of the range and I tend to get in the left corner by myself. But no he had to crowd right up on me and then make comments. My persimmon range time is my zone time where I just savor the sounds and feel of the wood and I do not like to be bothered 

Good for you Stu. Golf is crawling with those fools. The driving range is not a bar and I do not have a great pair of t****, leave me alone. I usually zone out with my ear buds and Pandora set on shuffle. I've had guys come a talking and I just ignore them, pretend I don't hear or notice. Rude? yes... but effective.

 

I came crashing back to earth yesterday with the vintage clubs. I hit the ball very solid, including a few drives right off the screws (which to me is worth the price of admission), but I can't make a putt to save my life. I have grooved a putting game that by and large saves my bacon with a modern, fat gripped, TM Spider mini. Now I am rolling through my stable of older more appropriate putters for a vintage bag, and they are not working. That may be something we don't address as much in the golf equipment debates on Wrx, modern putters make putting (especially short putts) stupidly easier. So, the question is: is it fair to game a modern putter with vintage golf clubs? I say, no. I cant bring myself to do it.   

[SnowbirdTom]

2 hours ago, Dr. Block said:

Good for you Stu. Golf is crawling with those fools. The driving range is not a bar and I do not have a great pair of t****, leave me alone. I usually zone out with my ear buds and Pandora set on shuffle. I've had guys come a talking and I just ignore them, pretend I don't hear or notice. Rude? yes... but effective.

 

I came crashing back to earth yesterday with the vintage clubs. I hit the ball very solid, including a few drives right off the screws (which to me is worth the price of admission), but I can't make a putt to save my life. I have grooved a putting game that by and large saves my bacon with a modern, fat gripped, TM Spider mini. Now I am rolling through my stable of older more appropriate putters for a vintage bag, and they are not working. That may be something we don't address as much in the golf equipment debates on Wrx, modern putters make putting (especially short putts) stupidly easier. So, the question is: is it fair to game a modern putter with vintage golf clubs? I say, no. I cant bring myself to do it.   

 

Interesting.  I actually shelved my SC for a Bullseye flanged vintage putter that goes in whatever bag I’m playing. Its real decent out to about 12-15 feet.

[Jiggered]

I play a putter that's a similar age to the clubs I'm playing that week.

I have a few simple mallets but that's as far as it goes for technology.

 

I don't use anything resembling an Anser style putter as they're effectively cavity back putters and were the beginning of the end for putters in my eyes.  (That comment might ruffle a few feathers 😮 )

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, Dr. Block said:

Good for you Stu. Golf is crawling with those fools. The driving range is not a bar and I do not have a great pair of t****, leave me alone. I usually zone out with my ear buds and Pandora set on shuffle. I've had guys come a talking and I just ignore them, pretend I don't hear or notice. Rude? yes... but effective.

 

I came crashing back to earth yesterday with the vintage clubs. I hit the ball very solid, including a few drives right off the screws (which to me is worth the price of admission), but I can't make a putt to save my life. I have grooved a putting game that by and large saves my bacon with a modern, fat gripped, TM Spider mini. Now I am rolling through my stable of older more appropriate putters for a vintage bag, and they are not working. That may be something we don't address as much in the golf equipment debates on Wrx, modern putters make putting (especially short putts) stupidly easier. So, the question is: is it fair to game a modern putter with vintage golf clubs? I say, no. I cant bring myself to do it.   

Deep down inside I agree with you on the putter. I also feel hyprocrital when I use a claw type grip with a vintage putter. But I do enjoy trying to putt with some of my Ironmasters , T.P. Mills or a Bullseye. I do quite often practice with one of the above for my feel like I do with persimmon. They are doing a total course Aeration at my course this week and I just got off the phone with one of my buds. He says he is not going to play the Shootout for a couple of weeks until the greens heal. I told him that the greens were going to putt like crap anyhow and I was thinking of bringing my Hickory shafted Otey blade out Saturday for kicks and giggles

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, SnowbirdTom said:

 

Interesting.  I actually shelved my SC for a Bullseye flanged vintage putter that goes in whatever bag I’m playing. Its real decent out to about 12-15 feet.

I went back to my Rusty Vintage Santa Fe after a bud of mine chided me over switching putters so much lately. But it is a 1997 raw rusty vintage and has a genuine Bulls Eye fluted shaft and I do have a SS 3 XL on it though. I am pretty decent with the Bullseye and practice with it a lot for alignment and feel

[Dr. Block]

16 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

Deep down inside I agree with you on the putter. I also feel hyprocrital when I use a claw type grip with a vintage putter. But I do enjoy trying to putt with some of my Ironmasters , T.P. Mills or a Bullseye. I do quite often practice with one of the above for my feel like I do with persimmon. They are doing a total course Aeration at my course this week and I just got off the phone with one of my buds. He says he is not going to play the Shootout for a couple of weeks until the greens heal. I told him that the greens were going to putt like crap anyhow and I was thinking of bringing my Hickory shafted Otey blade out Saturday for kicks and giggles

Now that sounds like some fun. Hunch down a bit like Arnie and pop stroke that ball with the Otey, get it above and rolling over the minefield. 

[Fellaheen51]

4 hours ago, Dr. Block said:

Now I am rolling through my stable of older more appropriate putters for a vintage bag, and they are not working. That may be something we don't address as much in the golf equipment debates on Wrx, modern putters make putting (especially short putts) stupidly easier. So, the question is: is it fair to game a modern putter with vintage golf clubs? I say, no. I cant bring myself to do it.   

 

Might look into adding a Zebra putter to the stable if you're accustomed to a mallet.  Period correct with the '76 Staffs, old enough to be labeled a classic.  Head weights are where I a find a notable difference between classic and modernist putters.  One can add weight (washers) to a Zebra under the sole plate.  

 

In the end, it's your bag.  Play whatever mashup of old and new implements that you please.  No rules of engagement.   

 

 

 

[Dr. Block]

5 minutes ago, Fellaheen51 said:

 

Might look into adding a Zebra putter to the stable if you're accustomed to a mallet.  Period correct with the '76 Staffs, old enough to be labeled a classic.  Head weights are where I a find a notable difference between classic and modernist putters.  One can add weight (washers) to a Zebra under the sole plate.  

 

In the end, it's your bag.  Play whatever mashup of old and new implements that you please.  No rules of engagement.   

 

 

 

You make a good point. But I am part Polish, and stubborn.  Part of me thinks it's the fat superstroke grip more than it's anything to do with the putter head.  I do appreciate your recommendation on the Zebra.  To the Bay I shall go. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Dr. Block

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, Jiggered said:

I play a putter that's a similar age to the clubs I'm playing that week.

I have a few simple mallets but that's as far as it goes for technology.

 

I don't use anything resembling an Anser style putter as they're effectively cavity back putters and were the beginning of the end for putters in my eyes.  (That comment might ruffle a few feathers 😮 )

Early days but I think you might have got away with it!

I don't necessarily disagree with you but, as I have a Ping Pal in my bag at the moment, you have made me pause and think.

My collection is based around blade irons, I stop at TM Tour Preferred TD with the hollow centre on the long irons - that is as far into cavity back and game improvement as I can bring myself to go. And yet I have viewed putters differently. As you know I have a thing for Golden Goose putters and have a flock of them but over the years my first line if putting defence has been Ping B60 (30 years), Ram Zebra and very recently the Pal. 

From the zip code, my Pal is in the circa 1970 era and, unusually, that makes it the oldest club in my bag at present. Zebra's have been around since the '70's. I therefore see them as classics of their era but can't quite reconcile why I shun game improvement changes in irons....

You have posed a very intriguing question and I am not sure I have an answer....

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

11 hours ago, Dr. Block said:

So, the question is: is it fair to game a modern putter with vintage golf clubs? I say, no. I cant bring myself to do it.   

 

Great question, and some great posts so far.

 

I try to play somewhat period correct putters when I bring out the persimmon and blades, but as the oldest irons I have are, I think, my 1972 Apexes, I have quite a bit of leeway. 

 

I was actually debating throwing in my modern putter into my persimmon bag recently as I am trying to improve my putting all-round by sticking with one putter, but I could not bring myself to do it.

 

As @Fellaheen51 said, there are no rules of engagement, so I don't think putting in a modern putter wholly disqualifies it from being a "classic" round, yet...

 

Funny thing is, I would never even think of putting my modern wedges into my classic bag. To me, that would disqualify it from classic golf.

 

I do throw some old blades into the modern bag quite often, but that's because my old blades aren't that different from my modern blades. Just a different number on sole.