Absolute score vs round index

It’s curious why so many goals are based on an absolute score like breaking 70 or 80 rather than how a round indexes. This reason I started thinking about this and bring this up is a buddy, who doesn’t have a cap and typically shoots high 80s/low 90s, he shot 78 recently but it was on a 5300 yard par 70 with a course/slope 66.0/117. He made a comment to another buddy that he “shoots in the 70s”. I explained to him that some of his rounds that were 85s were on much tougher courses were much better rounds. I even showed him how it indexes. Point is, the absolute score is so arbitrary and is hugely dependent on the course. In order to really assess best round, I’ve actually kept every score for the last 9 years in a spreadsheet with hows it’s indexes and then ranked lowest to highest. Yes I’m a nerd. I have some 82s with a lower index than some 75s. Sure, a lot of people have no clue about Index for each round, but for those of us who do, why don’t more people assess their rounds this way rather than absolute score when thinking about their best rounds ever or even their goals. Instead of breaking 70, is the the goal a -2.0 index round?

For one it's easier for people who aren't golf nuts to relate to. Two, there's something special about taking the fewest number of strokes that you ever have in a round of golf, regardless of the difficulty.

But I hear what you're saying, and internally I do what you're doing. But I've also taken into account things such as weather. I tied a personal best last year with a 70 that I had done just twice before, but this one was in a tournament, in the rain, with a rain delay of about 1.5 hours after playing just 2 holes, no roll. The differential doesn't take into account any of that, so even though the differential was slightly higher, it certainly was the better round.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that for really evaluating your play, looking at the differential is a better number. On the other hand, lots of people have subconscious mental barriers that they have to overcome. A specific way to overcome those barriers is to play an easy course, or to play forward tees, so you feel less pressure when you get close to shooting a personal best score. Once you've done it, broken a barrier, you don't remember what course you played to do it, you just know that you can do it again.

Besides, most of us won't be doing the math while we're on the course. When is the last time you heard someone say "I can shoot a diff of 2.7 if I can only make two more pars"? No, we say "I can break 80 if I just make 2 more pars".

When speaking to other golfers about goals I usually refer to handicap index as far as goals. Of course I still remember breaking 100 and 90 for the first time on courses that were above average difficulty and perhaps with retirement I can break 80 on my home course. For non golfers I usually give a range of mid to high 80’s as my best golf.

I think in terms of differential. I can pretty easily shoot mid 70s on the 5900 yard muni down the street - but have never broken 80 on my home course. In my mind, I’ve never broken 80.

For one it's easier for people who aren't golf nuts to relate to. Two, there's something special about taking the fewest number of strokes that you ever have in a round of golf, regardless of the difficulty.

Eggs-zactly !!!

For one it's easier for people who aren't golf nuts to relate to. Two, there's something special about taking the fewest number of strokes that you ever have in a round of golf, regardless of the difficulty.

 

But I hear what you're saying, and internally I do what you're doing. But I've also taken into account things such as weather. I tied a personal best last year with a 70 that I had done just twice before, but this one was in a tournament, in the rain, with a rain delay of about 1.5 hours after playing just 2 holes, no roll. The differential doesn't take into account any of that, so even though the differential was slightly higher, it certainly was the better round.

I can relate to that -- I pay attention to index, but what really matters is not always just how hard the golf course is. My best round last year was 76, which is 6 shots higher than my lowest round. It was all about fighting the horrific weather during a round that mattered a lot (to me).

I always have a tough time deciding which is my best score ever. Was it my lowest ever to par, a 5-under 67 on a course rated at 69.3/124? Was it shooting 68 at my age of 68 on a course rated 68.6/113? Was it my 2-under 70 on a Pete Dye Course rated 74.8/139?

i like to play at yardages I am comfortable with.

So if its a really long course, I will move up a tee

So the course rating will always be about the same

So I don't worry about course rating

i like to play at yardages I am comfortable with.

So if its a really long course, I will move up a tee

So the course rating will always be about the same

So I don't worry about course rating

The slope won't, however, unless you're playing all the same type of courses. I have a metro park course near me which is 126 slope from the tips 6900 yards.

Play the course 20 min away and you're at 143 slope from 6450 yards. 20% difference to your differential on a shorter course.

i like to play at yardages I am comfortable with.

So if its a really long course, I will move up a tee

So the course rating will always be about the same

So I don't worry about course rating

 

The slope won't, however, unless you're playing all the same type of courses. I have a metro park course near me which is 126 slope from the tips 6900 yards.

 

Play the course 20 min away and you're at 143 slope from 6450 yards. 20% difference to your differential on a shorter course.

Not really.

The scratch rating and bogey rating may soak up a lot of this. Contrary to what most people think they know, a 72.0/126 course is harder than a 68.0/143 golf course for anybody better than a 25 handicap.

All else equal, a shorter course will have a lower scratch rating than a longer course.

Except in my example, the course rating is actually higher on the shorter course. My point being that just because someone plays the similar distances doesn't mean their rating/slope is similar from course to course. Hence the whole reason we have rating and slope.

Except in my example, the course rating is actually higher on the shorter course. My point being that just because someone plays the similar distances doesn't mean their rating/slope is similar from course to course. Hence the whole reason we have rating and slope.

In most cases, the Course Rating is determined largely based on distance, its rare that a shorter course will have a higher CR. For Ghoul31, he plays generally the same yardage, so in most cases the CR will be similar. A higher slope is quite possible for a shorter course, but a significantly higher Course Rating would be fairly unusual. In your example the shorter course did have a higher Slope Rating, you didn't mention the Course Rating. You're right that the differential would be affected by the difference in slope, but its also significantly affected by the CR.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that for really evaluating your play, looking at the differential is a better number. On the other hand, lots of people have subconscious mental barriers that they have to overcome. A specific way to overcome those barriers is to play an easy course, or to play forward tees, so you feel less pressure when you get close to shooting a personal best score. Once you've done it, broken a barrier, you don't remember what course you played to do it, you just know that you can do it again.

Besides, most of us won't be doing the math while we're on the course. When is the last time you heard someone say "I can shoot a diff of 2.7 if I can only make two more pars"? No, we say "I can break 80 if I just make 2 more pars".

I completely agree with this. Most golfers have mental hurdles they need to get by before getting into the type of things you're talking about. Plus it is much easier to discuss with most fellow golfers-a universal language. Every Monday I have casual golfers at work that are going to ask "What'd you shoot?".

I always have a tough time deciding which is my best score ever. Was it my lowest ever to par, a 5-under 67 on a course rated at 69.3/124? Was it shooting 68 at my age of 68 on a course rated 68.6/113? Was it my 2-under 70 on a Pete Dye Course rated 74.8/139?

While the 68 at 68 brings another level of achievement into it and is great, subscribing to the index theory, the 70 on the dye course is the best.

It’s almost like 1997 masters or tiger 2000 us open vs 2008 us open. 2008 may have been a better achievement given the knee injury, but his best golf was one of those other tournaments.

I’d rather shoot a 79 with a higher differential than an 80 connected to a lower differential than the 79.

While I keep personal best records both ways, there’s too much subjectivity in slope and rating to make that my favorite goal.

I'd rather shoot a 79 with a higher differential than an 80 connected to a lower differential than the 79.

 

While I keep personal best records both ways, there's too much subjectivity in slope and rating to make that my favorite goal.

I agree completely with this.

Also, slope and rating are meant to reflect the averages of a great many golfers. For some courses that I've played many times, the approach shots suit my eye (or don't), the greens are easy for me to read (or aren't), the distances and fairway shapes are frequently point and shoot (or aren't at all), and so on... slope and rating, if I were to calculate them for myself, would usually be pretty close, but sometimes be substantially different from what's on the scorecard.

I sort of know how difficult courses are for me. I do prize a good score on a course that is particularly difficult for me, or in particularly difficult conditions (or, I played one tournament round where I had bleeding blisters on my hand from a cooking burn and struggled and focused my way to a pretty solid score which I was super proud of).

But I don't care about the actual ratings. I know when I'm playing really well in circumstances that are difficult for me. That's not really the same as slope and rating.

I keep an official handicap, but I rarely play in a handicap event. Scoring average is my barometer.

Some long courses are wide open, some short courses have a lot of trouble. To me it's about shooting a good score.

You know how well, or not so well, you played on those days. Scores can somewhat decieiving.

Id rather shoot a 79 with a higher differential than an 80 connected to a lower differential than the 79.

 

While I keep personal best records both ways, theres too much subjectivity in slope and rating to make that my favorite goal.

So you would rather a 79 at the the local muni with a differential of 11 than an 80 at Oakmont with a differential of 3? Is that really better golf?

Why do some people prefer to work with Celsius but others in Fahrenheit?

Whatever system they use on a regular bases, people will inherently adjust expectations and the judgments of the quality of their play based on the difficulty of the course without having to do any math. And remember slope and ratings are statistical averages so not always an accurate representation of difficulty in the context of a single, unique individual and their particular skill set.

Why do some people prefer to work with Celsius but others in Fahrenheit?

 

Whatever system they use on a regular bases, people will inherently adjust expectations and the judgments of the quality of their play based on the difficulty of the course without having to do any math. And remember slope and ratings are statistical averages so not always an accurate representation of difficulty in the context of a single, unique individual and their particular skill set.

No system will ever be a perfect assessment of difficulty, but at least it’s something.

No system will ever be a perfect assessment of difficulty, but at least it’s something.

Of course, but both ways fall into the category of "being something". I thought the point of the OP was to try and discuss the relative benefits of the two methods?

I'm a math guy like the OP, play courses with wide a variety of CR/slope and look a lot at differentials. With that said, my best differential is certainly not my best round. As others have said, weather and other factors like pin positions, green speed/condition, tourney vs non-tourney come into consideration.

Raw scores are easier for less analytical types to messure and discuss with friends. Easy courses are good for breaking barriers and give guys who like to brag some material to work with.

I’d rather shoot a 79 with a higher differential than an 80 connected to a lower differential than the 79.

 

While I keep personal best records both ways, there’s too much subjectivity in slope and rating to make that my favorite goal.

 

So you would rather a 79 at the the local muni with a differential of 11 than an 80 at Oakmont with a differential of 3? Is that really better golf?

I'd certainly like to give Oakmont a try. And be happy with whatever I shot. But my scores in the 70s are very few and far between, so as long as I get to play both I'd trade a 79 at the muni for the 80 at Oakmont.

I hover around 1.5-2.5 handicap and play longer sets of tees. And I agree with sawgrass. I’m playing against par. Trying to shoot 72 or less . I don’t particularly care which course it’s at. I may say “ yea I shot 73 at so and so. And man that’s a hard course. “. But never once do I look or care what the slope etc is. To me that’s a very subjective thing. What’s hard for me may not be hard for you and vice versa. Example. Give me a wide open course that lets me hit Driver without fear of ob and I’ll shoot a good score. Why ? I’ll hit a lot of wedges in. Even if from rough etc. you may hate the same course form the same tees because it’s too long. And you may excel at a course with easier rating that requires me to not hit Driver and layup off every tee because of doglegs , OB etc

I hover around 1.5-2.5 handicap and play longer sets of tees. And I agree with sawgrass. I'm playing against par. Trying to shoot 72 or less . I don't particularly care which course it's at. I may say " yea I shot 73 at so and so. And man that's a hard course. ". But never once do I look or care what the slope etc is. To me that's a very subjective thing. What's hard for me may not be hard for you and vice versa. Example. Give me a wide open course that lets me hit Driver without fear of ob and I'll shoot a good score. Why ? I'll hit a lot of wedges in. Even if from rough etc. you may hate the same course form the same tees because it's too long. And you may excel at a course with easier rating that requires me to not hit Driver and layup off every tee because of doglegs , OB etc

Yeah, against par is always the (daily) measurement for me as well as most golfer's understanding (or would that be "caring" ? LOL ),,,,,,,,,, although the analytical side of me, if asked what my better rounds were, would probably resort to differentials,,,,, other than at my home course because I know it like the back of my hand ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :dntknw:

I've shot -4 (gross 2.6 under the CR with a 116 slope) about a half dozen times at my home course over 25 years and 800 or so rounds.

But I consider my best round a 1 under 70 (with a triple no less) on an upstate mountain course (approx 70.5/128) with fast and very sloped greens, that I've played maybe 30-35 times,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, as well as a 73 I once shot at Bethpage Black (from the whites).

When speaking to other golfers about goals I usually refer to handicap index as far as goals. Of course I still remember breaking 100 and 90 for the first time on courses that were above average difficulty and perhaps with retirement I can break 80 on my home course. For non golfers I usually give a range of mid to high 80’s as my best golf.

Where is your home course? I ask because I golf in Sussex County...

I pick score. ESC is the reason. I've seen even low handicappers say "I can only put down a double".

Sorry dude that was a 9 - no Xs allowed in medal play.

I pick score. ESC is the reason. I've seen even low handicappers say "I can only put down a double".

 

Sorry dude that was a 9 - no Xs allowed in medal play.

yep... i played for 3 years and kept a handicap before i even knew "double max" was a thing... still dont use it..