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Lower body starts downswing: How To Feel This

 juliette91 ·  
juliette91juliette91 Members  1609WRX Points: 195Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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Mostly I’ve flunked start of downswing 101. Could never get my brain to te my hips to start turning toward the target. But after watching a Gary Player lesson with Martin Hall where Gary passionately urged viewers to turn their chest to the target-to start the downswing ( which turns the hips), I tried it.<br />
<br />
Turns out I can “tell” my chest to turn toward the target at the transition, and my hips follow in sync.<br />
<br />
So all this instruction about turning hips to the target to initiate the downswing can be accomplished in other ways that trigger the hips to turn
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  • juliette91juliette91 Members  1609WRX Points: 195Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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    Typo sorry no edit feature—“Could never get my brain to tell...”
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  • hack2489hack2489 Members  321WRX Points: 61Handicap: 13.1Posts: 321 Greens
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    juliette91 wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    ... to turn their chest to the target-to start the downswing ( which turns the hips)...<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    That's one way... But, comes with the possibility of of then rotating or rolling the shoulders too much or too soon and thus not starting with hips.<br />
    <br />
    After failed attempts of turning hips 'back' (aka left hip back) and or starting with driving right hip to start the forward swing (aka downswing) by a now new swing thought of "belt buckle to left knee" ... So both a forward and rotation movement.<br />
    <br />
    The left hip back had me spinning out too much with no enough, or no, forward movement.<br />
    <br />
    The right hip drive had me pushing too far forward and not enough rotation.<br />
    <br />
    The belt buckle to left knee is the 'baby bear' ah just right swing thought for me.<br />
    <br />
    Subject to change without notice!
    Posted:
  • andrueandrue Members  1565WRX Points: 297Handicap: 20Posts: 1,565 Platinum Tees
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    What seems to work for me is a sense of pulling my right buttock toward the target while consciously holding my head back. That movement creates a feeling of pulling along my left side. It also tends to cause my right elbow to come back to my hip. To me it feels like a disjointed, lateral move (ie; shift, then swing) but other people says there's a definite rotational aspect to it and the whole thing looks quite smooth.<br />
    <br />
    My problem is that I tend to forget to do it or (as yesterday for some reason) feel kind of afraid to. It's stupid - when I do that move I hit great shots but my brain still seems to think of it as a bit alien and risky. I also tend to neglect to fully turn my shoulders going back when I get like that.<br />
    <br />
    It's quite frustrating. The result of both those mistakes is not pretty and unfortunately they dent my confidence and make it even less likely I'll attempt them <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />
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  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers  6027WRX Points: 768Posts: 6,027 Titanium Tees
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    Oh wow, if the right people respond you’re going to hear everything from A to Z! <br />
    <br />
    I struggle with this too. A lot of what I once believed about this whole sequencing wasn’t valid. It is easy for me in the effort to start with my hips to way out of sequence, drop r shoulder, etc.<br />
    <br />
    What seems to work best for me is a focus on how to get right side thru- hands, arms, shoulder so that I get speed into the head thru impact. <br />
    <br />
    This requires me to get the left side out of the way. But a little like Player suggests, I focus more on shoulder than hips. I can’t pay attention to everything so I seems to hit it better if I stay focused shoulders, arms, hands and let the lower body react.
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  • Nard_SNard_S Members  3952WRX Points: 905Handicap: 9Posts: 3,952 Titanium Tees
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    Rotate lead knee towards target.
    Posted:
  • mstrammstram Members  188WRX Points: 35Posts: 188 Fairways
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    I like Nicklaus's "roll the ankles", both for backswing and downswing
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  • juliette91juliette91 Members  1609WRX Points: 195Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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    Please keep ‘em coming. One of these suggestions is bound to help some viewers.<br />
    <br />
    I tried like heck to get my lead knee to turn toward the target line but never could feel it to do it. I know the poster who said this one liner as though his posting ended the conversation might not believe something which sounds so easy to do could ever not be so.<br />
    <br />
    That’s why I started this thread—because what works for one doesn’t at all work for another.
    Posted:
  • Nard_SNard_S Members  3952WRX Points: 905Handicap: 9Posts: 3,952 Titanium Tees
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    juliette91 wrote:
    <br />
    Please keep 'em coming. One of these suggestions is bound to help some viewers.<br />
    <br />
    I tried like heck to get my lead knee to turn toward the target line but never could feel it to do it. I know the poster who said this one liner as though his posting ended the conversation might not believe something which sounds so easy to do could ever not be so.<br />
    <br />
    That's why I started this thread—because what works for one doesn't at all work for another.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Hah, I guess that's me. If you cannot feel or execute that it's probably because your body is not in the position to do so. So you have to drill down and see why that is. For me it was because I had a false rotation, false coil. Good coil allows easy re-pivot, a falling into ball by flexion and rotation of lead knee.
    Posted:
  • me05501me05501 Members  443WRX Points: 35Posts: 443 Greens
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    I think we each learn to execute things in different ways.<br />
    <br />
    Drawing from lessons I've taken to improve my golf, voice, work life, etc., I know I do far better with "do this" instructions than with "don't do that" instructions. I guess I don't like being told what not to do. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /><br />
    <br />
    Having learned this about myself, I get more from each lesson. If an instructor says, "you're doing _____, don't do that" I'll ask them to give me an opposite/positive image to use instead. It's easier for me to remember and execute those. <br />
    <br />
    Anyhow...some golfers can think "turn the X to the Y" and others can think "don't let the Y get past the X." Either can be effective for different people.
    Posted:
  • ZitlowZitlow Members  623WRX Points: 224Posts: 623 Golden Tee
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    The shaft is swinging on a plane from the ball thru the base of the neck, the club head is swinging on a circle around the base of your neck. The club head isn't swinging on a circle around your belly button.<br />
    <br />
    Jamie Sadlowski said his legs are stabilizers in his swing.
    Posted:
  • cj4birdiecj4birdie Members  23WRX Points: 1Posts: 23 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Oct 29, 2018 #12
    I like to feel a push off the right heel/instep as the first move of the re-coil into the ball...that seems to be the best way for me to get my right hip through the shot NEAR simultaneous to the right arm "throwing" sidearm/underhanded WITHOUT me thinking about anything beyond transferring weight and letting the club follow to my ultimate goal, a straight, balanced "Stenson/Sorenstam" finish. I've never hit a truly horrid shot where I've gotten to that finish position, comfortable to evaluate the shot, from even a reasonable backswing. Jim Colbert used to say that he tried to "stand up and face the target as soon as I can" at the completion of the backswing. George Knudson was another guy who strove to hit that "evaluation" position as a major downswing thought. It all happens too fast to "create" positions w/ the club in free motion coming into the ball. <br />
    <br />
    Agree though, there are a million "feels" to accomplish what you're looking for, and what works for me won't necessarily work for others.
    Posted:
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  • NickcNickc Members  197WRX Points: 63Posts: 197 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Oct 29, 2018 #13
    The right knee & hence pushing off the right instep helped me - BUT as with anything thinking about it too much can and did lead to problems. Getting the belt buckle to rotate to the goal of facing the target was also useful.<br />
    But as an olden I have found that having as few thoughts as possible and simply swinging to the right and through to the left works best - though the trigger is thinking about the feet - left for the backswing and right for the downswing and follow through (don't analyse or really think about it but suppose it is a push off from left for backswing - heel lifts slightly - and push off from right for down swing).The ground up rotation just naturally then happens.<br />
    Try it with your eyes closed or just looking straight ahead and not at the ball - you may miss at first - but will free your body to just do its stuff.
    Posted:
  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer Members  1987WRX Points: 429Posts: 1,987 Platinum Tees
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    Dont lean on a trigger to help fire hips JUST fire the hips!!!<br />
    <br />
    My hips are on auto pilot no thought needed but Im an ex college javelin chucker lol....<br />
    <br />
    How bout trying to really smash hard with driver cause I cant see anyone doing that without the hips going first....then once you got the feeling dial it back as far as needed to find fairway....ijs
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  • hack2489hack2489 Members  321WRX Points: 61Handicap: 13.1Posts: 321 Greens
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    me05501 wrote:
    <br />
    I think we each learn to execute things in different ways.<br />
    <br />
    Drawing from lessons I've taken to improve my golf, voice, work life, etc., I know I do far better with "do this" instructions than with "don't do that" instructions. I guess I don't like being told what not to do. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /><br />
    <br />
    Having learned this about myself, I get more from each lesson. If an instructor says, "you're doing _____, don't do that" I'll ask them to give me an opposite/positive image to use instead. It's easier for me to remember and execute those. <br />
    <br />
    Anyhow...some golfers can think "turn the X to the Y" and others can think "don't let the Y get past the X." Either can be effective for different people.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Do not think of a pink elephant.<br />
    <br />
    So what did you do?<br />
    <br />
    It's got nothing do to with being told what not to do, it's how our brains work regwrding the focus subject of the thought.<br />
    <br />
    If you're thinking don't hit it fat, don't hit it left ... Chances are you will because that's what you're thought is focused on... <br />
    <br />
    Same for any swing thought. Exactly as you've discovered. It needs to be a positive focus that overcomes the error you are making.<br />
    <br />
    It may take several tries at different ones before it clicks too, which is the core of this thread...<br />
    <br />
    As I posted, thinking about pushing my left hip back didn't work, not right hip firwsrd, but belt buckle to knee did, does, for me ... ATM. <br />
    <br />
    Regardless of what we try, test, etc it needs to be a positive thought focus.<br />
    <br />
    Do not forget the milk! <br />
    <br />
    So what usually happens? 🤔<br />
    <br />
    Posted:
  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  4267WRX Points: 777Posts: 4,267 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Oct 30, 2018 #16
    Thinking to start the transition with just the lower body, i.e. hips, and then with a turning movement is a problematic concept. Both the upper and lower body centers shift laterally with a small amount of rotation up until lead arm parallel at which point rotation takes over.<br />
    <br />
    Sneds demonstrates the move<br />
    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf<br />
    <br />
    Rory too<br />
    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf<br />
    <br />
    And last but not least Rose who makes it clear about keeping that lead side low in transition<br />
    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf
    Posted:

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  • Rosco1216Rosco1216 Members  3184WRX Points: 296Posts: 3,184 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Oct 30, 2018 #17
    Unless it just comes natural to you, it is very difficult to consciously tell yourself to simply “rotate your hips” and actually do it because youre in the process of a dynamic motion without an opposing force to rotate against. <br />
    <br />
    There are tons of cues people have tried to get themselves to rotate hips better. One thing most people don’t realize is that there is something in their set up or stance that actually restricts hip turn, such as a wide stance.<br />
    <br />
    I always struggled with not enough hip clearing and too much lateral shift toward the target. The best cue that worked for me was to maintain a little more weight on the front door at the top of the backswing and then from their to simply move my lead
    On -, @ss cheek back(from the ball) and upward simultaneously. It helps me get my hips cleared better, restricts lateral shift towards target and also got me “posted” into my lead side much better at impact.
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  • moehoganmoehogan Members  1136WRX Points: 185Posts: 1,136 Platinum Tees
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    When I was a youngster, a wise old timer once barked at me “Get your g’**** nose in the dirt!”.<br />
    <br />
    Translation: Regain hip flexion in transition
    Posted:
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3807WRX Points: 716Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,807 Titanium Tees
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    On the backswing, take the lead foot and step back to the trail foot, tap the lead foot and then step forward with the lead foot, plant it, and swing. <br />
    <br />
    It's called the step back drill, I think. If you cant feel the hips lead with that drill then nothing will help.<br />
    <br />
    Great for tempo too.
    Posted:
  • TIM929TIM929 Los AngelesMembers  1533WRX Points: 948Handicap: 14.2Posts: 1,533 Platinum Tees
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    />
    <br />
    this.
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  • Ray JacksonRay Jackson Members  1134WRX Points: 156Posts: 1,134 Platinum Tees
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    mstram wrote:
    <br />
    I like Nicklaus's "roll the ankles", both for backswing and downswing<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    This one has caused issues for me as the ankles rolling towards the target has caused my lower body to slide and my hips to get too parallel to the ground rather than pointing down and so then I get stuck behind. The better one I am going to try is belt buckle to the ground and then keep the left hip turning behind me. Hopefully that keeps arms in front of me and not behind.
    Posted:
  • juliette91juliette91 Members  1609WRX Points: 195Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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    cj4birdie wrote:
    <br />
    I like to feel a push off the right heel/instep as the first move of the re-coil into the ball...that seems to be the best way for me to get my right hip through the shot NEAR simultaneous to the right arm "throwing" sidearm/underhanded WITHOUT me thinking about anything beyond transferring weight and letting the club follow to my ultimate goal, a straight, balanced "Stenson/Sorenstam" finish. I've never hit a truly horrid shot where I've gotten to that finish position, comfortable to evaluate the shot, from even a reasonable backswing. Jim Colbert used to say that he tried to "stand up and face the target as soon as I can" at the completion of the backswing. George Knudson was another guy who strove to hit that "evaluation" position as a major downswing thought. It all happens too fast to "create" positions w/ the club in free motion coming into the ball.<br />
    <br />
    Agree though, there are a million "feels" to accomplish what you're looking for, and what works for me won't necessarily work for others.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    This works for me too as I've adopted a Stenson like takeaway to eliminate actually moving off the ball after I begin the backswing (this way it's mostly done before I take the club back)<br />
    but with the Stenson takeaway comes pressure on the rear foot/heel and that pressure is the coil for the re-coil of pushing off of it.<br /><br />
    getitdaily wrote:
    <br />
    On the backswing, take the lead foot and step back to the trail foot, tap the lead foot and then step forward with the lead foot, plant it, and swing.<br />
    <br />
    It's called the step back drill, I think. If you cant feel the hips lead with that drill then nothing will help.<br />
    <br />
    Great for tempo too.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Thanks, really great drill!
    Posted:
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  • juliette91juliette91 Members  1609WRX Points: 195Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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    <br />
    mstram wrote:
    <br />
    I like Nicklaus's "roll the ankles", both for backswing and downswing<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    This one has caused issues for me as the ankles rolling towards the target has caused my lower body to slide and my hips to get too parallel to the ground rather than pointing down and so then I get stuck behind. The better one I am going to try is belt buckle to the ground and then keep the left hip turning behind me. Hopefully that keeps arms in front of me and not behind.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    "left hip" ? sure you don't mean right hip? Or are you LH?
    Posted:
  • Tanner25Tanner25 Members  6735WRX Points: 331Posts: 6,735 Titanium Tees
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    Barfolomew wrote:
    <br />
    Dont lean on a trigger to help fire hips JUST fire the hips!!!<br />
    <br />
    My hips are on auto pilot no thought needed but Im an ex college javelin chucker lol....<br />
    <br />
    How bout trying to really smash hard with driver cause I cant see anyone doing that without the hips going first....then once you got the feeling dial it back as far as needed to find fairway....ijs<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    My smash with the driver swing will end up 225 way to the right, lol
    Posted:
  • smdykassmdykas Members  179WRX Points: 58Handicap: 8Posts: 179 Fairways
    Joined:  #25
    glk wrote:
    <br />
    Thinking to start the transition with just the lower body, i.e. hips, and then with a turning movement is a problematic concept. Both the upper and lower body centers shift laterally with a small amount of rotation up until lead arm parallel at which point rotation takes over.<br />
    <br />
    Sneds demonstrates the move<br />
    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf<br />
    <br />
    Rory too<br />
    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf<br />
    <br />
    And last but not least Rose who makes it clear about keeping that lead side low in transition<br />
    http://www.instagram...tic_motion_golf<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    The JR video changed my game last month while trying it. I didn't realize my hips were spinning out and I had the club so far behind me I was stuck.
    Posted:
  • oz dee ceeoz dee cee Members  514WRX Points: 104Posts: 514 Golden Tee
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    Seeing that youre trying different methods try this odd but effective one... on your backswing, feel like your right foot is **** into the ground clockwise. At transition and downswing CONTINUE the clockwise ****.<br />
    <br />
    From SEVAM1 - old school. Can work a treat.
    Posted:
  • Pleasedwith3puttsPleasedwith3putts Members  1758WRX Points: 139Posts: 1,758 Platinum Tees
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    moehogan wrote:
    <br />
    When I was a youngster, a wise old timer once barked at me "Get your g'**** nose in the dirt!".<br />
    <br />
    Translation: Regain hip flexion in transition<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I like this move too. The problem with using the feel of you torso turning towards the target is it can easily result in casting.<br />
    <br />
    If you look at the move Rose uses in his practice swing it is to feel you are moving your head down into the ball and pulling hard to the left.<br />
    <br />
    It's very hard to cast if you retain spine angle and stay on top of the ball correctly at impact. The feeling of burying your nose in the dirt by the ball helps that and frankly if you don't clear your hips then this move will mean you literally have no room to swing the club into and are likely to shank everything , whereas a caster will create room by losing spine angle and standing up on the shot.<br />
    <br />
    So my two thoughts would be to feel like you keep your head on top of the ball on the way down and that your head does not move towards the target until after impact.
    Posted:
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  • Tanner25Tanner25 Members  6735WRX Points: 331Posts: 6,735 Titanium Tees
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    oz dee cee wrote:
    <br />
    Seeing that youre trying different methods try this odd but effective one... on your backswing, feel like your right foot is **** into the ground clockwise. At transition and downswing CONTINUE the clockwise ****.<br />
    <br />
    From SEVAM1 - old school. Can work a treat.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    And blow out a rear knee!
    Posted:
  • MillbrookMillbrook Members  1756WRX Points: 136Posts: 1,756 Platinum Tees
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    As someone has already said move lead knee to over the lead foot.<br />
    <br />
    For me it produces the move which was in Montes instagram message which Timbo posted. I see this as the Hogan move of returning the left buttock to the wall without the right buttock coming off the wall for a RH player.
    Posted:
    All comments are made from the point of
    view of my learning and not a claim
    to expertise.
  • oz dee ceeoz dee cee Members  514WRX Points: 104Posts: 514 Golden Tee
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    Tanner25 wrote:
    <br />
    oz dee cee wrote:
    <br />
    Seeing that youre trying different methods try this odd but effective one... on your backswing, feel like your right foot is **** into the ground clockwise. At transition and downswing CONTINUE the clockwise ****.<br />
    <br />
    From SEVAM1 - old school. Can work a treat.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    And blow out a rear knee!<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Nah, you’re doing it wrong! 😆
    Posted:
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  • andrueandrue Members  1565WRX Points: 297Handicap: 20Posts: 1,565 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Nov 2, 2018 #31
    I was trying a few things out at the range and have discovered that there's another way I can start the downswing that produces the same result. Instead of pulling my lead hip toward the target I return my trailing elbow to my side. Even though this is a very different feel it produces pretty much the same result, with an increase in secondary tilt. As a bonus it reduces my tendency to fade (which makes sense). I'm going to have to investigate this further because it feels like a simpler swing - instead of thinking "hip, elbow, turn" I can now just think "elbow, turn". The hip seems to take care of itself.<br />
    <br />
    The only negative result was that I was hitting wedges very badly at first. But when I started concentrating on getting down to the ball I was good there as well.
    Posted:
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    Ghost Spider Si 72 Putter
    Callaway Super Soft Yellow (White in winter).
5

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