No new acquistions...?

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

16 minutes ago, Swingingk said:

I suppose it stands to reason that they would feel noticeably different being of completely different construction.  The whole idea of this set is an interesting concept that appears to have been way ahead of its time in terms of marketing.  A more forgiving blade set when everyone else was going full cavity back.  Just a wild guess here but I'd guess they weren't all that big a seller back then, what with SGI's being all the rage and MB's being grandpas irons.  Who wanted to look like grandpa?  Now that blades are 'cool' again there are several companies making almost the exact same thing and it's a big hit.  Who'd a thunk it?

 

I don't remember seeing any other sets when I played them back in the late Eighties, so I think you're right that they weren't a massive seller. Lots of EYE2s, especially among the wealthier guys, and then lots of EYE2 knock-offs for everyone else. Oh, and at this point in the UK, I think Mizuno blades were the club of choice for the good younger players. At least three of the best junior/younger guys at my club had Mizuno blades, and I remember playing quite a few juniors at other clubs in our city's inter-club league matches.

[Foozle]

4 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

The 1i to 4i are hollow, and the 5i down to the SW are pure looking blades. I am pretty sure I had either the 2i or 1i as well. I've included a side-by-side comparison photo of the 4i and 5i to show the difference in the sole width.

I think you're right about it being one of the first graduated sets. I don't remember anything quite like them at the time. Back then, I actually found the thick sole of the long irons off-putting for fairway shots, especially when the fairways were baked hard in the summers. Now, I'm impressed with how sleek they look!

I find it interesting that they decided to provide "assistance" only in the long irons, whereas now combo sets usually go from blade to CB around the 7 or 8i, and may include hollow-body irons or pocket cavities in the 4i (and sometimes 5i), and drop a 3i for a hybrid. 

I am assuming the TM's have fairly traditional lofts and most modern combo sets will have game assistance cranked lofts so it may be that the loft (as opposed to club #) at which assistance is introduced is not that different?

I attach some pictures of the 1 iron profile compared to a more traditional blade, in this case Fg17. The TM is quite "Browningesque"! I had both these out last time I played as I was considering swapping in the TM. I am not sure it has made the team as the "assistance" wasn't that noticeable and I prefer the feel of the forged blade.

However, I think we are agreed here that these were ahead of their time and foretold of things to come. I dislike much of what has happened since as the subtle concepts trailed here have since been put on steroids! However I am comfortable having them in my collection as a historically significant marker in golf's timeline. And a lovely looking set of irons too!

Edited January 9, 2021 by Foozle
Add picture

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

59 minutes ago, Foozle said:

I am assuming the TM's have fairly traditional lofts and most modern combo sets will have game assistance cranked lofts so it may be that the loft (as opposed to club #) at which assistance is introduced is not that different?

I attach some pictures of the 1 iron profile compared to a more traditional blade, in this case Fg17. The TM is quite "Browningesque"! I had both these out last time I played as I was considering swapping in the TM. I am not sure it has made the team as the "assistance" wasn't that noticeable and I prefer the feel of the forged blade.

However, I think we are agreed here that these were ahead of their time and foretold of things to come. I dislike much of what has happened since as the subtle concepts trailed here have since been put on steroids! However I am comfortable having them in my collection as a historically significant marker in golf's timeline. And a lovely looking set of irons too!

 

Yes, traditional lofts, so the PW is --or should be-- 50* from what I've managed to find on the Internet. I think it goes in 4* increments from there down to a 26* 4i, then a 23* 3i, but I'm not entirely sure about that, and I haven't been able to measure my set properly yet. Anyway, that would mean the 5i is like a modern 6i in many muscle back sets (and a PW in the latest ultra super-duper game improvement distance irons...😁). 

 

Now your comment about the TM being a bit "Browningesque" made me smile, because that's exactly what I thought as unboxed them and looked upon the long irons for the first time in 30 years. They have a remarkably low profile, which I did not remember at all. My guess is that it was to keep weight down, but that is pure speculation.

 

Although I haven't taken mine out to hit yet, I do remember that I found the long irons no easier to hit than any other long iron, except perhaps off the tee. In fact, I found the 4i in the set of Titleist blades I got to replace my stolen Tour Preferred TDs easier to hit off the deck than the hollow body Taylormade 4i. And I fared equally badly with the 3i in both sets😟

 

As you say, I think they were a truly innovative set of irons that was ahead of its time, and I'm looking forward to playing them. I think I actually preferred the beat up old Titleist Tour Model irons I got to replace them, but I'm happy to have these Taylormades once again in my possession.

 

Finally, I'm jealous of those 1-irons!

Edited January 9, 2021 by No_Catchy_Nickname

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

Yes, traditional lofts, so the PW is --or should be-- 50* from what I've managed to find on the Internet. I think it goes in 4* increments from there down to a 26* 4i, then a 23* 3i, but I'm not entirely sure about that, and I haven't been able to measure my set properly yet. Anyway, that would mean the 5i is like a modern 6i in many muscle back sets (and a PW in the latest ultra super-duper game improvement distance irons...😁). 

 

Now your comment about the TM being a bit "Browningesque" made me smile, because that's exactly what I thought as unboxed them and looked upon the long irons for the first time in 30 years. They have a remarkably low profile, which I did not remember at all. My guess is that it was to keep weight down, but that is pure speculation.

 

Although I haven't taken mine out to hit yet, I do remember that I found the long irons no easier to hit than any other long iron, except perhaps off the tee. In fact, I found the 4i in the set of Titleist blades I got to replace my stolen Tour Preferred TDs easier to hit off the deck than the hollow body Taylormade 4i. And I fared equally badly with the 3i in both sets😟

 

As you say, I think they were a truly innovative set of irons that was ahead of its time, and I'm looking forward to playing them. I think I actually preferred the beat up old Titleist Tour Model irons I got to replace them, but I'm happy to have these Taylormades once again in my possession.

 

Finally, I'm jealous of those 1-irons!

Speculation on my part too but I also assume the low profile is to keep weight down. Even with a hollow centre, the width of the sole means there is a lot of metal in there so what goes on the sole needs to come off the depth of the face...

I do like the styling though, quite pure and simple, a good looking set of irons and vaguely reminiscent of one of my all time favourite's late '30's Gradidge irons. Art Deco sculpture in a golf club!

As for the 1 irons, I always carry one - almost essential for Scottish links golf - in the anticipation that one day I may actually hit one pure! That will be the day I can hang up my clubs and retire from this crazy game happy and satisfied! 😁

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

4 hours ago, Foozle said:

Speculation on my part too but I also assume the low profile is to keep weight down. Even with a hollow centre, the width of the sole means there is a lot of metal in there so what goes on the sole needs to come off the depth of the face...

I do like the styling though, quite pure and simple, a good looking set of irons and vaguely reminiscent of one of my all time favourite's late '30's Gradidge irons. Art Deco sculpture in a golf club!

As for the 1 irons, I always carry one - almost essential for Scottish links golf - in the anticipation that one day I may actually hit one pure! That will be the day I can hang up my clubs and retire from this crazy game happy and satisfied! 😁

 

You know as well as I do that as soon as you hit a 1i pure, you'll be out there the next day come rain or shine trying to repeat the feat🤣

Edited January 9, 2021 by No_Catchy_Nickname

[baloo]

Probably 4 years ago I got a huge lot of woods from Teevons. Most are in poor shape. They can be fixed up or used for parts. Most are not worth much as far as I can tell. I've fixed up a handful for personal use and gave away others.

I don't know how many are left, I'm guessing 100-150. They're just sitting in my storage unit and my life is busy. I'll probably never do much with them.

If anyone wants them, they're yours for free if you can pick them up (expensive to ship). I'm in Southern Wisconsin. I would hate to just toss them, but am considering it. I am not selling these, so hope this post doesn't break some forum rule.

[Brewski_golfs]

baloo if I was anywhere near Wisconsin I would consider it.  Maybe it's the pandemic, but I may have officially gone off the deep end with this golf club collecting.  Saw a post on craigslist for a bunch of clubs, the guy didn't really know what he had but it looked promising.   Was an hour drive each way, and I had to pick up the clubs off the ground and out of the trunk of an abandoned car in the dark in January on a 20 degree night, but it was worth it.  Total 66 clubs for $150 which is about what I would have paid if from a thrift store, but I never in 100 years would have come across this collection in one place.  Nothing is in pristine condition, but the shafts are almost all rust free and a couple sets have leather grips that can be salvaged.  Will keep a few sets and flip the rest on Ebay.

 

Here's what he had laying outside:

1980 Macgregor MT 2-10
1956 Macgregor Tommy armour 925 colokrom 2-9
1960 Macgregor Louise Suggs cf4000 L84 2-9
1973 Wilson Staff Dynapower 2-PW
1965 Wilson Staff Dynapower 1-8
1964 Macgregor Tourney dx2 2-9
1960 Wilson Patty Berg Dynapower 3-PW
1973 Wilson Staff Dynapower 3-5, 7-PW
1954 Macgregor MT M65 DS Wedge

 

 

[Jiggered]

19 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

I don't remember seeing any other sets when I played them back in the late Eighties, so I think you're right that they weren't a massive seller. Lots of EYE2s, especially among the wealthier guys, and then lots of EYE2 knock-offs for everyone else. Oh, and at this point in the UK, I think Mizuno blades were the club of choice for the good younger players. At least three of the best junior/younger guys at my club had Mizuno blades, and I remember playing quite a few juniors at other clubs in our city's inter-club league matches.

 

On the subject of hollow heads, one of the earliest I've come across is the Dunlop Deltic, I think these went right through the set though.

They're from 1986 but again they weren't heavily marketed and don't seem to have taken off, I'd be interested in hitting a few shots with one.

 

 

 

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, Brewski_golfs said:

baloo if I was anywhere near Wisconsin I would consider it.  Maybe it's the pandemic, but I may have officially gone off the deep end with this golf club collecting.  Saw a post on craigslist for a bunch of clubs, the guy didn't really know what he had but it looked promising.   Was an hour drive each way, and I had to pick up the clubs off the ground and out of the trunk of an abandoned car in the dark in January on a 20 degree night, but it was worth it.  Total 66 clubs for $150 which is about what I would have paid if from a thrift store, but I never in 100 years would have come across this collection in one place.  Nothing is in pristine condition, but the shafts are almost all rust free and a couple sets have leather grips that can be salvaged.  Will keep a few sets and flip the rest on Ebay.

 

Here's what he had laying outside:

1980 Macgregor MT 2-10
1956 Macgregor Tommy armour 925 colokrom 2-9
1960 Macgregor Louise Suggs cf4000 L84 2-9
1973 Wilson Staff Dynapower 2-PW
1965 Wilson Staff Dynapower 1-8
1964 Macgregor Tourney dx2 2-9
1960 Wilson Patty Berg Dynapower 3-PW
1973 Wilson Staff Dynapower 3-5, 7-PW
1954 Macgregor MT M65 DS Wedge

 

 

 

 

The sort of haul you dream of, great find!

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

3 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

On the subject of hollow heads, one of the earliest I've come across is the Dunlop Deltic, I think these went right through the set though.

They're from 1986 but again they weren't heavily marketed and don't seem to have taken off, I'd be interested in hitting a few shots with one.

 

 

 

 

I'm glad you posted that. Someone in another thread (Bladeusers thread) was surprised to hear that hollow irons were around 30 years ago, and it got me thinking about when they were first introduced. I think I read somewhere that hollow irons were brought out even before Taylormade's Tour Preferred TDs. Those Deltics would preceded the TDs by a year or so, but I think there was a hollow iron produced even before that, back in the Sixties or Seventies. Does anyone have any recollection of such an iron?

[Swingingk]

17 hours ago, Foozle said:

Speculation on my part too but I also assume the low profile is to keep weight down. Even with a hollow centre, the width of the sole means there is a lot of metal in there so what goes on the sole needs to come off the depth of the face...

I do like the styling though, quite pure and simple, a good looking set of irons and vaguely reminiscent of one of my all time favourite's late '30's Gradidge irons. Art Deco sculpture in a golf club!

As for the 1 irons, I always carry one - almost essential for Scottish links golf - in the anticipation that one day I may actually hit one pure! That will be the day I can hang up my clubs and retire from this crazy game happy and satisfied! 😁

The Gradidge is beautiful Foozle.  Got any more pics?  I think I'm in love...  😆

[ALIF]

11 hours ago, baloo said:

Probably 4 years ago I got a huge lot of woods from Teevons. Most are in poor shape. They can be fixed up or used for parts. Most are not worth much as far as I can tell. I've fixed up a handful for personal use and gave away others.

I don't know how many are left, I'm guessing 100-150. They're just sitting in my storage unit and my life is busy. I'll probably never do much with them.

If anyone wants them, they're yours for free if you can pick them up (expensive to ship). I'm in Southern Wisconsin. I would hate to just toss them, but am considering it. I am not selling these, so hope this post doesn't break some forum rule.

I’m looking for M85, 693, 945 2 wood. Have any?

[Jiggered]

22 hours ago, Foozle said:

Speculation on my part too but I also assume the low profile is to keep weight down. Even with a hollow centre, the width of the sole means there is a lot of metal in there so what goes on the sole needs to come off the depth of the face...

I do like the styling though, quite pure and simple, a good looking set of irons and vaguely reminiscent of one of my all time favourite's late '30's Gradidge irons. Art Deco sculpture in a golf club!

As for the 1 irons, I always carry one - almost essential for Scottish links golf - in the anticipation that one day I may actually hit one pure! That will be the day I can hang up my clubs and retire from this crazy game happy and satisfied! 😁

 

I've got a very similar set to those but with a different script for the Gradidge and a slightly different crown motif, I assume yours are also dot faced and coated shafts?

[Foozle]

5 hours ago, Swingingk said:

The Gradidge is beautiful Foozle.  Got any more pics?  I think I'm in love...  😆

I will try to oblige. I have some archive pictures but reviewing they are poor quality so I will try to improve on those.

As per brother Jiggered comments below, they are punch dot faced which seems completely incongruous with the design of the head but I believe dates them to pre war.

Gradidge moved into golf in 1935 so they must be 1935-39. The quality and design for an 85 year old set is exceptional.

Reg Whitcombe won the British Open with a set of these in 1938. Post war Bobby Locke was their leading endorsement. All the clubs i have seen with his name on seem to have standard grooves.

Brother Jiggered will have the full history to his finger tips.

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, Jiggered said:

 

I've got a very similar set to those but with a different script for the Gradidge and a slightly different crown motif, I assume yours are also dot faced and coated shafts?

Jiggered, yes, punch dot faced and coated shafts. I will try to get some more picture for you and brother Swingingk. The ones I have on file are not very good.

I would have these as sculpture in the house but Mrs Foozle is not very understanding in these matters although to her credit remarkably tolerant of my affliction. 😊

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

1 hour ago, Foozle said:

I will try to oblige. I have some archive pictures but reviewing they are poor quality so I will try to improve on those.

As per brother Jiggered comments below, they are punch dot faced which seems completely incongruous with the design of the head but I believe dates them to pre war.

Gradidge moved into golf in 1935 so they must be 1935-39. The quality and design for an 85 year old set is exceptional.

Reg Whitcombe won the British Open with a set of these in 1938. Post war Bobby Locke was their leading endorsement. All the clubs i have seen with his name on seem to have standard grooves.

Brother Jiggered will have the full history to his finger tips.

 

What did Gradidge make before moving into Golf? I've only ever heard the name in connection with golf.

 

[Foozle]

42 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

What did Gradidge make before moving into Golf? I've only ever heard the name in connection with golf.

 

They were most well known for making cricket bats and had been in business for over 60 years before moving into golf. I am sure I have also seen reference to rugby balls so evolved from cricket bats into general sporting goods.

I have it in my mind that they were "high end" manufacturers although that may simply be my perception from the quality of materials used in the golf clubs I own. I like to think of them as the "Bentley Boys" of golf at that time! 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

11 minutes ago, Foozle said:

They were most well known for making cricket bats and had been in business for over 60 years before moving into golf. I am sure I have also seen reference to rugby balls so evolved from cricket bats into general sporting goods.

I have it in my mind that they were "high end" manufacturers although that may simply be my perception from the quality of materials used in the golf clubs I own. I like to think of them as the "Bentley Boys" of golf at that time! 

 

Cricket bats? Now that rings a bell. I think my school may have even had some ancient Gradidge cricket bats among their ancient equipment.

[Foozle]

2 hours ago, Foozle said:

I will try to oblige. I have some archive pictures but reviewing they are poor quality so I will try to improve on those.

As per brother Jiggered comments below, they are punch dot faced which seems completely incongruous with the design of the head but I believe dates them to pre war.

Gradidge moved into golf in 1935 so they must be 1935-39. The quality and design for an 85 year old set is exceptional.

Reg Whitcombe won the British Open with a set of these in 1938. Post war Bobby Locke was their leading endorsement. All the clubs i have seen with his name on seem to have standard grooves.

Brother Jiggered will have the full history to his finger tips.

Managed to take some more pictures. Here is my Gradidge collection including an odd Parmaker 2 iron and Bobby Locke Sandmaster.

The irons (2-8) are stunning and very hard to picture due to the shine - these are unrestored so truly "rustless" steel!

The odd Parmaker is interesting for having both loft and lie stamped on the toe. Punch dot faced so this is the '30's!

The Sandmaster is post war. I would love to know its swing weight as it is a brute!

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

A lie of 32*? I assume that's measured from the perpendicular, so what we'd call a lie of 58* today? 
If so, was it common to measure the lie like that back then?

 

Stunning irons, and I love the look of the sand wedge😍

[Foozle]

21 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

A lie of 32*? I assume that's measured from the perpendicular, so what we'd call a lie of 58* today? 
If so, was it common to measure the lie like that back then?

 

Stunning irons, and I love the look of the sand wedge😍

Good point! It hadn't dawned on me that 32* lie angle is a nonsense figure! Having done a quick and very crude check it does lie at about 32* off perpendicular so guess that is how it was measured. No idea if that was the convention back then and, if so, when it switched.

The sand iron has a long hosel and all in all there is a lot of steel and therefore weight in that head. Takes a bit of swinging but I imagine it would bludgeon through almost anything!

[baloo]

9 hours ago, ALIF said:

I’m looking for M85, 693, 945 2 wood. Have any?

No, nothing like that in there.

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

A lie of 32*? I assume that's measured from the perpendicular, so what we'd call a lie of 58* today? 
If so, was it common to measure the lie like that back then?

 

Stunning irons, and I love the look of the sand wedge😍

 

Ping has been using that sort of measurement lately with their putter lie angles, but interestingly, it seems they're keeping it to only putters at this point.  Their iron lie specs show the traditional numbers.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by NRJyzr

[Jiggered]

4 hours ago, Foozle said:

Managed to take some more pictures. Here is my Gradidge collection including an odd Parmaker 2 iron and Bobby Locke Sandmaster.

The irons (2-8) are stunning and very hard to picture due to the shine - these are unrestored so truly "rustless" steel!

The odd Parmaker is interesting for having both loft and lie stamped on the toe. Punch dot faced so this is the '30's!

The Sandmaster is post war. I would love to know its swing weight as it is a brute!

 

They're beauties!

 

Mine have a slight satin finish (like yours appear to have in the striking area?) and I guess are slightly later than yours, just because the script looks it!

 

I too have the 2 to 8 irons, plus the even sexier putter and what I assume is a later model 10, due to the fact that it has a lined face. See also the wording on the top line, "BE-OUT"

 

Shafts and grips are identical to yours.

 

[Jiggered]

Regarding Gradidge, I agree with Foozle's comments above. 

Slazenger took them over in 1931 and some time after that they began selling golf clubs, but exactly when is hard to say as there's little documentary evidence around for that period of golf.

 

Two Whitcombe clubs are shown below.

The first is a "Whitcombe Model" which I suspect is the earlier.

The second is an "R.A. Whitcombe Championship Model", so you'd have to assume made after his Open win of 1938, it has a coated shaft, and dot face.

 

 

 

With many pre and post war clubs it's very hard to say which side of the war they were made as production immediately after the war was basically a re-start of what had gone before, it took a few years until money could be invested into new designs and tooling.

 

As an example, the Bobby Locke iron below is basically the same design as that of Foozle's and mine above, but I doubt it would have been made before the war as Locke hadn't achieved enough to justify it, my guess is that this is a post-war club produced either just before but more likely just after Locke's first Open win in 1949 and Gradidge just stamped his name on an existing club design so they could cash in!

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Jiggered

[Foozle]

34 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

They're beauties!

 

Mine have a slight satin finish (like yours appear to have in the striking area?) and I guess are slightly later than yours, just because the script looks it!

 

I too have the 2 to 8 irons, plus the even sexier putter and what I assume is a later model 10, due to the fact that it has a lined face. See also the wording on the top line, "BE-OUT"

 

Shafts and grips are identical to yours.

 

Nice clubs. Especially jealous of the putter! I have chased a few but yet to secure one. The ones like yours with the exceptionally long and very elegant hosel's are simply beautiful! 😍

[Joe S]

14 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

 

I'm glad you posted that. Someone in another thread (Bladeusers thread) was surprised to hear that hollow irons were around 30 years ago, and it got me thinking about when they were first introduced. I think I read somewhere that hollow irons were brought out even before Taylormade's Tour Preferred TDs. Those Deltics would preceded the TDs by a year or so, but I think there was a hollow iron produced even before that, back in the Sixties or Seventies. Does anyone have any recollection of such an iron?

  

Ben Hogan had an iron that was a cast, hollow, foam filled blade call the "Producer" that came out in 1975.  Unfortunately this file is not great and it's hard to read the description.   I downloaded it from Golfwrx a few years ago so I'm sure there is someone else out there with a better file.

 

 

 

 

 

[thepunch_out]

My 3-wood finally arrived! I've now got a perfect match for my Honma Tour Model driver. I couldn't be more pleased with how this pair worked out.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

7 hours ago, Joe S said:

  

Ben Hogan had an iron that was a cast, hollow, foam filled blade call the "Producer" that came out in 1975.  Unfortunately this file is not great and it's hard to read the description.   I downloaded it from Golfwrx a few years ago so I'm sure there is someone else out there with a better file.

 

 

Interesting indeed. The ones I was thinking of were from a different maker. The problem is, I can't recall the maker! But I am sure they weren't from Ben Hogan. I couldn't read the description; are they hollow throughout the set, or only in certain irons like the Taylormades? 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

5 hours ago, thepunch_out said:

My 3-wood finally arrived! I've now got a perfect match for my Honma Tour Model driver. I couldn't be more pleased with how this pair worked out.

 

Beauties. Do you what the difference is between the Tour Model and the Classic model? I've seen some that have both stampings.