Optimum driver length. How do you know?

[CRider]

I've had two drivers in my relatively short golf life that I actually took some time trying out. My last driver purchase came after a top notch fitting so I've waded into those waters. Ended up with a Titlest 913 D2 with a Diamana S+62 R flex.

So here's my query. All shafts at my fitting were 45". And from what I've learned, it's unusual/impractical for fitters to provide various lengths during the driver fitting process. I understand why.

So how would I best go about determining if a shorter length might be better suited to me, and, if so, how much shorter?

Is there anything more accurate than simply sliding my hand down the shaft ? I ask because it sliding my hand down seems sort of random. Is 44" better? Or 44.5? Or 43? Do you get a specific as down to the quarter inch? Half inch? Plus, grip gets thinner as I slide down, making it less than a "real world" experience.

Bottom line is I'd love to see what going shorter actually does for my length and dispersion aside from generalizing that Ill likely be shorter and tighter. To anyone who's gone this direction, what was your process? Thanks.

[StezzGolfer]

Very interested.

My bio cell is 45.75"! Wtf. Longer than some peoples' ball retrievers

IMO, you could cut off .5", test it out. And then go shorter if needed. I agreed, choking down on the grip doesnt work as well as people state. Hahah i didnt realize there were so many in the same boat as I, thinking their driver is too long.

Tom Wishon said us amateurs should have a driver no longer than 44". I wouldnt take that statement lightly. I'm gonna chop mine off down to 44.5, as a starting point. Then possibly go shorter if i feel the need to do so.

I also might need a lower spinning driver/shaft.. but thats for another thread

[Beastmode Broker]

trial and error
I've tried 44.25, 44.5, 44.75, 45, 45.5, 46

seem to gravitate to 44.75"
again, a pure comfort and trial and error thing

[TomWishon]

[quote name='CRider' timestamp='1421164873' post='10739049']

So here's my query. All shafts at my fitting were 45". And from what I've learned, it's unusual/impractical for fitters to provide various lengths during the driver fitting process. I understand why.
So how would I best go about determining if a shorter length might be better suited to me, and, if so, how much shorter?
[/quote]

Iron lengths are fit to satisfy a golfer's COMFORT over the ball first and foremost, but driver length is fit to the golfer's swing characteristics and ability to control the club during the swing.

Symptoms of the driver being too long - more off center hits, greater range of miss hits directionally, overall inconsistency.

Symptoms of the driver being a proper length for the individual golfer - more on center hits, more narrow range of miss hits directionally and improved overall consistency.

Golfers who are curious about whether a shorter length could be better need to[b] pick one starting length[/b] that is shorter than what they have by at least one inch. Stick with that 1 inch shorter length for at least 3 to 4 separate playing or ball striking sessions and note your on center hit performance and overall consistency. If it is better, then you have two choices. Stay with that shorter length or continue to experiment by going 1/2" shorter and seeing if that was even better for an improvement in consistency and on center hit performance WHILE ALSO LOOKING TO SEE IF YOU ARE LOSING ANY DISTANCE.

In the end what you want is the driver length that offers the best on center hit consistency while not costing you very much distance. And do realize that a whole lot of golfers who switch from a 45 to 45+ length down to 44 do not lose distance and in fact some even gain distance.

From years of reasearch in this, very few golfers can hit a 45" driver length as consistently as they can hit a 44" length. But some can. Those who can typically have most of the following swing characteristics - Smooth controlled tempo, inside out to square swing path, later to very late release, good golf athletic ability.

Golfers with a more aggressive tempo who also are slightly over the top and outside in with a midway to early ish release should never, ever, ever consider playing a driver length longer than 44". Driver lengths longer than 44" really make these swing tendencies worse.

[tdelam]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1421166116' post='10739179']
[quote name='CRider' timestamp='1421164873' post='10739049']
So here's my query. All shafts at my fitting were 45". And from what I've learned, it's unusual/impractical for fitters to provide various lengths during the driver fitting process. I understand why.
So how would I best go about determining if a shorter length might be better suited to me, and, if so, how much shorter?
[/quote]

Iron lengths are fit to satisfy a golfer's COMFORT over the ball first and foremost, but driver length is fit to the golfer's swing characteristics and ability to control the club during the swing.

Symptoms of the driver being too long - more off center hits, greater range of miss hits directionally, overall inconsistency.

Symptoms of the driver being a proper length for the individual golfer - more on center hits, more narrow range of miss hits directionally and improved overall consistency.

Golfers who are curious about whether a shorter length could be better need to[b] pick one starting length[/b] that is shorter than what they have by at least one inch. Stick with that 1 inch shorter length for at least 3 to 4 separate playing or ball striking sessions and note your on center hit performance and overall consistency. If it is better, then you have two choices. Stay with that shorter length or continue to experiment by going 1/2" shorter and seeing if that was even better for an improvement in consistency and on center hit performance WHILE ALSO LOOKING TO SEE IF YOU ARE LOSING ANY DISTANCE.

In the end what you want is the driver length that offers the best on center hit consistency while not costing you very much distance. And do realize that a whole lot of golfers who switch from a 45 to 45+ length down to 44 do not lose distance and in fact some even gain distance.

From years of reasearch in this, very few golfers can hit a 45" driver length as consistently as they can hit a 44" length. But some can. Those who can typically have most of the following swing characteristics - Smooth controlled tempo, inside out to square swing path, later to very late release, good golf athletic ability.

Golfers with a more aggressive tempo who also are slightly over the top and outside in with a midway to early ish release should never, ever, ever consider playing a driver length longer than 44". Driver lengths longer than 44" really make these swing tendencies worse.
[/quote]

But can you simply just cut down a driver by an inch without making other adjustments? Won't swing weight be different and be an issue?

[Ri_Redneck]

I've always been amused by the longer length tendencies of the OEMs. I grew up playing in the 70s when drivers were all 43" - 43.5". Now, it's common to see them pushing 46"! Yeah, the heads/sweetspots are larger, but you still loose BS on off-center hits regardless. the length has grown strictly in the pursuit of more CHS. 3" more length only gives THE POTENTIAL of very marginal CHS increase and most of the time, no increase because the golfer has timing issues with the balance and control of the longer club. I have always found that 44.5" is about my comfortable max and have not suffered in distance at all for it. I also prefer 70/80 gm shafts too at that length.

BT

[TomWishon]

[quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1421166880' post='10739237']

But can you simply just cut down a driver by an inch without making other adjustments? Won't swing weight be different and be an issue?
[/quote]

When cutting down existing drivers, you first try the driver at the shorter length with no additional headweight added to see if the head weight feels too light during the transition from backswing to downswing and through the downswing. A few golfers find that they are ok with the existing headweight and the lower swingweight that comes about from a length reduction. Typically though, most golfers find that they need to add weight to the head after a length reduction so as to create enough weight FEEL in the head to match well to the golfer's tempo and sense of swing rhythm and timing. Best way to do this is to get some lead tape and head to the range. Hit 3, 4 shots then add weight, hit 3,4 more shots, add weight. What you are looking for is to get to the point that you FEEL the presence of the head out there on the end of the shaft when you start the downswing but to stop short of the point where you sense that you have to make much more effort to start the downswing because the head is feeling a little too heavy.

[CRider]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1421166116' post='10739179']
[quote name='CRider' timestamp='1421164873' post='10739049']
So here's my query. All shafts at my fitting were 45". And from what I've learned, it's unusual/impractical for fitters to provide various lengths during the driver fitting process. I understand why.
So how would I best go about determining if a shorter length might be better suited to me, and, if so, how much shorter?
[/quote]

Iron lengths are fit to satisfy a golfer's COMFORT over the ball first and foremost, but driver length is fit to the golfer's swing characteristics and ability to control the club during the swing.

Symptoms of the driver being too long - more off center hits, greater range of miss hits directionally, overall inconsistency.

Symptoms of the driver being a proper length for the individual golfer - more on center hits, more narrow range of miss hits directionally and improved overall consistency.

Golfers who are curious about whether a shorter length could be better need to[b] pick one starting length[/b] that is shorter than what they have by at least one inch. Stick with that 1 inch shorter length for at least 3 to 4 separate playing or ball striking sessions and note your on center hit performance and overall consistency. If it is better, then you have two choices. Stay with that shorter length or continue to experiment by going 1/2" shorter and seeing if that was even better for an improvement in consistency and on center hit performance WHILE ALSO LOOKING TO SEE IF YOU ARE LOSING ANY DISTANCE.

In the end what you want is the driver length that offers the best on center hit consistency while not costing you very much distance. And do realize that a whole lot of golfers who switch from a 45 to 45+ length down to 44 do not lose distance and in fact some even gain distance.

From years of reasearch in this, very few golfers can hit a 45" driver length as consistently as they can hit a 44" length. But some can. Those who can typically have most of the following swing characteristics - Smooth controlled tempo, inside out to square swing path, later to very late release, good golf athletic ability.

Golfers with a more aggressive tempo who also are slightly over the top and outside in with a midway to early ish release should never, ever, ever consider playing a driver length longer than 44". Driver lengths longer than 44" really make these swing tendencies worse.
[/quote]Tom, thanks so much for weighing in. Going down an inch to start is advice I'll take. Tom Spargo was my driver fitter and you couldnt have a stronger advocate.

[square]

[quote name='CRider' timestamp='1421164873' post='10739049']
I've had two drivers in my relatively short golf life that I actually took some time trying out. My last driver purchase came after a top notch fitting so I've waded into those waters. Ended up with a Titlest 913 D2 with a Diamana S+62 R flex.
So here's my query. All shafts at my fitting were 45". And from what I've learned, it's unusual/impractical for fitters to provide various lengths during the driver fitting process. I understand why.
So how would I best go about determining if a shorter length might be better suited to me, and, if so, how much shorter?
Is there anything more accurate than simply sliding my hand down the shaft ? I ask because it sliding my hand down seems sort of random. Is 44" better? Or 44.5? Or 43? Do you get a specific as down to the quarter inch? Half inch? Plus, grip gets thinner as I slide down, making it less than a "real world" experience.
Bottom line is I'd love to see what going shorter actually does for my length and dispersion aside from generalizing that Ill likely be shorter and tighter. To anyone who's gone this direction, what was your process? Thanks.
[/quote]

The golf equipment industry, including the component club sector, fails at providing sensibly swing weighted 43" to 44" demonstration drivers. Consequently, consumers like you have no reasonable method of testing sub 45" finished drivers.

[jedc]

I recently had my fitter build me a backup driver at 43.5" with an 85g shaft. I haven't had a chance to play with the weather being crappy, but will report my findings. My hopes are that I can find the fairway easier than with my normal 44.5"/63g setup.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

can someone explain why oem's make their pro models shorter than the regular model. why is it that players that aren't as good off the tee and go for the more forgiving driver are then stuck with the longer stock driver. my guess is this can be tracked directly back to the marketing dept.

[tdelam]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1421168328' post='10739389']
[quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1421166880' post='10739237']
But can you simply just cut down a driver by an inch without making other adjustments? Won't swing weight be different and be an issue?
[/quote]

When cutting down existing drivers, you first try the driver at the shorter length with no additional headweight added to see if the head weight feels too light during the transition from backswing to downswing and through the downswing. A few golfers find that they are ok with the existing headweight and the lower swingweight that comes about from a length reduction. Typically though, most golfers find that they need to add weight to the head after a length reduction so as to create enough weight FEEL in the head to match well to the golfer's tempo and sense of swing rhythm and timing. Best way to do this is to get some lead tape and head to the range. Hit 3, 4 shots then add weight, hit 3,4 more shots, add weight. What you are looking for is to get to the point that you FEEL the presence of the head out there on the end of the shaft when you start the downswing but to stop short of the point where you sense that you have to make much more effort to start the downswing because the head is feeling a little too heavy.
[/quote]

Thanks Tom! This is great info.

[norcalgolf]

Intresting experiment yesterday. I'm a proponent of the shorter driver (44.5@D2). I tried a combination that I woulda never ever tried on my own. Same driver as mine 915D3 10.5 45.25@D6. I hit it just as well, to my surprise. Distance was slightly better.

[_Hawk3y3_]

[quote name='HoosierMizuno' timestamp='1421171813' post='10739801']
can someone explain why oem's make their pro models shorter than the regular model. why is it that players that aren't as good off the tee and go for the more forgiving driver are then stuck with the longer stock driver. my guess is this can be tracked directly back to the marketing dept.
[/quote]OEM's "pro" model drivers nearly always come with a stock shaft that is heavier than the stock shaft on their "standard" or "game-improvement" models, but the weights of the heads are typically similar (often identical). OEM's shorten the heavier shafts for swingweighting purposes.

I'm sure that marketing research somewhere down the line also showed that the better players who purchased the "pro" heads also preferred a shorter shaft length.

Or maybe it's all hokum. I don't know. Would love to hear Tom's thoughts on this.

[jholz]

Cutting an inch off of my driver (44' playing length currently) has been a godsend. Didn't need to add any weight to the head and the thing is deadly consistent. I actually picked up some distance because I am confident to really go after the ball. One of the best tidbits I ever picked up from WRX.

[BMC]

You can always choke down on the shaft. Do it at the range in 1/4 inch increments. Hit about six balls at each length. See where you're at as far as distance and control.

[matchavez]

[quote name='BMC' timestamp='1421176628' post='10740343']
You can always choke down on the shaft. Do it at the range in 1/4 inch increments. Hit about six balls at each length. See where you're at as far as distance and control.
[/quote]

And also remember that choking down successfully is not the same as cutting. That counterbalance effect can have more to do with your feel.

Another thing... take advantage of those adjustable heads. Buy a sleeve or two, and grab a cheap/used whatever driver shaft you have cut down. Do not chop your current gamer unless you are damn sure.

Finally, many drivers have adjustable weights. A heavier weight or some lead tape will help get you to a similar swingweight. If you chop an inch off the top, you will most definitely get a different feel immediately.

Don't be afraid to tinker, but be sure to be aware of your temporary methods instead of resorting to permanent ones first. Your wallet will thank you.

[Apex93]

Cutting my driver down really helped my stats and distance loss was negligible. It really worked for me. I had a great wishon fitter who dialed the club in perfectly for me.

The only problem I want to highlight for those considering this is that when you cut down a driver, not only do you change swing weight (in the case of 1", rather dramatically), but also you change the characteristics/flex of the shaft. So you have an extra variable to balance.

I found that I couldn't do this WITHOUT a reputable club fitter. Let's just say that, in my experience, the guys at Golf Galaxy certainly did not fit the criteria of "club fitter".

Tom, if you could, please, can you talk a little bit more about how to tie these three variables together for those that are experimenting/tinkering:
Length
Weight
Flex

I tried to do this on my own after the Golf Galaxy Fiasco of '13, and it was NOT easy for me. Basically ruined a few shafts...
Which probably hammers the point home that, while custom clubfitters are expensive, ruining shafts on your own is equally expensive.

[rocker40]

If you cut down to 44 or 43.5 should you use a sub 460 driver head?
Arent the longer driver shafts made for the 460 head?

Currently @44.5 inches D3 SW 67g shaft, 913D2 with blue weight.
5'8" height

[kadey]

How do you measure to determine your driver length?

[dbleag]

Dial 1-800-FACETAPE.

Put face tape on your current driver and hit 10-12 balls, circling each strike to tell them apart.

If you consistently mark the toe-side of the center, your current driver length my be too short.

If you consistently mark the heel side of the center, your current driver length may be too long.

Change length of driver until strikes are as centered as possible.

This is a good way to start, considering that shaft flex, weight, loft, lie etc. could still be off also.

[WalleyeDave]

[quote name='dbleag' timestamp='1421197235' post='10742431']
Dial 1-800-FACETAPE.

Put face tape on your current driver and hit 10-12 balls, circling each strike to tell them apart.

If you consistently mark the toe-side of the center, your current driver length my be too short.

If you consistently mark the heel side of the center, your current driver length may be too long.

Change length of driver until strikes are as centered as possible.

This is a good way to start, considering that shaft flex, weight, loft, lie etc. could still be off also.
[/quote]This . I did this today at the range and had 6 shots in a row dead nut center. Playing length wait for it 46"

Couldn't resist but I just hit that longer shaft better.

[Georgie Z]

I cut off an inch without adding weight. Now I'm playing the club at 44" and I'm enjoying the driver again. I used to hit my driver as far as my 3 wood, but now my driving is one of my strengths.

[CRider]

Thanks everyone for your responses. The face tape process seems like the simplest way to start. Fortunate that my Titleist driver has interchangeable weights, so that part of the equation is easy should I need to add. I've heard mixed comments about the flex change brought about by reducing an inch or so. Some have said it would hardly be noticeable, depending on the shaft and my release. My ss is between 92 and 95. I'm not OTT and have a mid release that I'm working to gradually delay. Transition is not hugely aggressive. The question was asked a few replys back about shaft flex change. Anyone have some experience with that issue? Thanks in advance. And how 'bout those Buckeyes!

[boston blackie]

Is it OK to cut from the top of the shaft. I don't want to invest in a shaft puller, and I don't know anyone around here that has one.

[epyon]

I had my shafts trimmed to play at 44 inches yesterday. I asked them to swingweight the setup to D4. Hopefully its not too heavy. They add lead powder to the shaft and insert a cork plug so its not permanent. I wonder how easy it would be to lower the swingweight though. Hopefully they wouldn't have to pull the tip to lower the weight.

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='boston blackie' timestamp='1421250499' post='10745037']
Is it OK to cut from the top of the shaft. I don't want to invest in a shaft puller, and I don't know anyone around here that has one.
[/quote]

The primary influence on the flex (and thus the need to tip vs butt trim) is largely the amount of weight you might add to the head to counteract the SW. Even with adding weight, the need to tip trim will be dependent on your particular sensitivities to the feel of the flex and how good a fit that shaft was before.

I think it's more common that people don't find they add enough weight to the head to warrant the need for tipping but it's not a sure thing by any means.

Safest approach is to choke up, and use lead tape to find out how much weight you do want to add before any actual cutting. That approach will also tell you if the weight is causing the shaft to get too soft or not and thus tell you if you should tip before any cutting is done.

[Racerx63]

I have gone the route of just chocking down on the grip. I have gone from a 45 3/4 to 44". Originally choking down made the shaft feel really boardy and light, did not work well until I added weight to the head. In the end I added 8 grams of lead tape and it is money now. One day I will cut it down and possibly hot melt it to get rid of the lead tape but no rush as it works now.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

can anyone post pictures of where they are placing the lead tape on the driver head. small strips on top of each other or several side by side covering a larger area of the clubhead?