Early Morning Groups..

[Tcann32]

So within the past few weeks I have had a couple earlier tee times. I love playing earlier in the morning, besides the early morning crews who apparently have no interest in anything besides playing as fast as possible.

 

Over the weekend we were playing a rather nice, private course. We were off at 7:50 and there were 3 of us walking. It was cart path only anyways, so the time saved riding would've been null. We had all played there numerous times between them being members, and my work having a corporate membership, and knew all the rules and timing, etc. It is PGA owned so 4 hrs or less isn't negotiable, and that's fine by me.

 

We were told we could tee off at 7:45 since we were all there and ready and nobody was ahead of us. The ranger was just hanging with a few of us on the range since it wasn't all that busy yet. By the time we were off we had probably tee'd off less than 3 min early.

 

We had all JUST picked up our bags after our second shots when a group behind tee'd off, which couldn't have been more than 4-5 min after we had officially tee'd off. I know morning groups like to play quick, but that kind of spacing makes for an unhappy group ahead of you, and if you tee off early, expect to wait. God forbid one of us has to look for a ball for a minute or something. Even worse, these guys were so infatuated with playing so insanely fast that they had ignored the cart path rules and were driving all over the fairways. Albeit it had started to dry in many spots, but courses of this caliber, and its other members, don't take kindly to fairways with tire tracks leading through them.

 

As we continued our round, Ben, the pro/Marshall that morning caught us on the 6th tee, and alerted us that we were still 4-5 min AHEAD of time, which meant that the group behind must have been a solid 10 min ahead. We were playing the Blues and they were playing the whites and we were still keeping ahead of pace.

 

When we passed them on an adjacent fairway, they had loud music in their cart, were talking to the cart girl like they had just gotten out of prison, and were just a downright, obnoxious group. For the next few holes, that style play continued. They pushed us hard the whole front 9, but were never quite fast enough to actually catch up, they just never waited either. By the end of the round we had finished 2 min ahead of the 4 hr pace, walking a 6700 yard course.

 

The golf was fine, and we all played reasonably well even though the wind makes this course very tough. Ben (course pro) rode along with us on a couple holes and was very pleasant, helping us find a couple lost balls, etc. I assume he was bored and knew we were being pushed. He spoke with the group behind us about the cart path only rule, again, but knew they were gonna be pushing most of the day on us.

 

It was frustrating for me because I hadn't historically played well at this course, and for once I was. It wasn't so bad to have people riding us when shots were in the fairways, but it was legitimately rushed when you had to take a minute to find a ball, and set up a shot, and basically left us with no time to really study a shot, or a putt.

 

One of the guys I was out with is someone who I don't get to golf with as often as I'd like, and it's always a nice opportunity to play this place. At the end of the round we realized we hadn't hardly spoken, and it was sort of a bummer.

 

The other course this had happened on was the same story only much worse. There was a frost delay and we had times ahead of what we could tell were some very antsy patrons. They were pissed when the Pro told them that we were going to keep our times and that they would be backed up a half hour due to the frost.

 

We were literally walking off the first green when the group behind us was hitting into it. We had just gotten to the next tee when they zoomed off the first and were on us on the 2nd tee, so we let them play through. The group behind them did the exact same thing. At the turn the course pro came out and started hounding us that we made the turn 20 min late and that he had one of his members call to complain about us. This day was cart path only as well, which wasn't being followed, and these dudes were driving right up to the greens and stuff. They weren't even pulling pins on putts, let alone putting out.

 

After what had turned into a pretty heated argument with the pro, we got it through to the guy that we were walking, the others were riding, and that we made the turn 20 min late because we let TWO groups play ahead of us, and if those groups had tee'd off at their proper "times" (pushed back due to delay), that there would not have been an issue. We played the back 9 in 1 hr and 40 min and the head pro bought us all a drink and apologized. What was interesting to me, was that these guys had an original time at 8:30.

 

If you wanna play speed golf, reserve the first time of the day. Don't push your way through the course. If someone is on pace, I don't honestly feel like you have the right to push them. I would call it good etiquette if there are holes open ahead of you, and there is a single behind you, as I often play and appreciate it when someone realizes that, but I never push anyone like that when they aren't actually playing slow.

 

Rant over.

[The Pearl]

Private course? Something is not adding up here.

[golfandfishing]

Uncomfortable position to be in for sure, but in scenario 1 you should have let them play through. Not because your group was slow, clearly you are not. However if you had just let them go through early in the round your group would have had a great time. Why let yourself feel pushed all day? Just because you play in under 4 hours doesn't mean you can't let a group play through. it doesn't represent a failure on your part, it shouldn't be the least bit hostile. Just hit your tee shots on a par 3, wait a few seconds for them to pull up and say "hey fellas, looks like you want to get around here quick, go ahead". They hit, you walk up while they ride up, they play out quickly, you proceed and all have a great day. Delay to you is maybe 2 minutes. It's not a grudge match out there.

[deadsolid...shank]

Uncomfortable position to be in for sure, but in scenario 1 you should have let them play through. Not because your group was slow, clearly you are not. However if you had just let them go through early in the round your group would have had a great time. Why let yourself feel pushed all day? Just because you play in under 4 hours doesn't mean you can't let a group play through. it doesn't represent a failure on your part, it shouldn't be the least bit hostile. Just hit your tee shots on a par 3, wait a few seconds for them to pull up and say "hey fellas, looks like you want to get around here quick, go ahead". They hit, you walk up while they ride up, they play out quickly, you proceed and all have a great day. Delay to you is maybe 2 minutes. It's not a grudge match out there.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. This one was an easy fix. Instead of rushing so as not to be caught or pushed, take your time relax, and send them on through. Both groups are happy.

 

Our group is fast, admittedly sometimes too fast (that's just for RSJ's benefit!), but I've never understood groups who are obviously rushing and out of their normal comfort zone pace wise to stay just barely ahead. There is no stigma associated with letting people play through, it doesn't make anyone a lesser anything.

 

It's a lot more fun for both groups if they can both play at their comfortable pace.

[RVAUSMC]

No offense, but at my private course, walking isn't permitted until after 11am, because even cart part only with a cart is still going to be faster.

[North Butte]

Agree with golfandfishing. Life's too short to spend all morning dealing with pests. Wave them through, in fact INSIST they play through. Wait until the are out of sight ahead then resume your round under more enjoyable circumstances.

 

The fact you were in the right and they were wrong or the fact that the club/pro/whoever didn't back you up...these are things you have no control over. Prioritize enjoying your own round, not fighting for what you feel is right against people who obviously don't care what you think.

 

That said, If this sort of thing happens often you might consider finding a more courteous club at some point in future.

[Tcann32]

Private course? Something is not adding up here.

 

I do believe they were short staffed that day with it being MDW and all. It's not a typical situation for this place. With the starter not being on the tee, they started when they wanted, not when their tee time was, and while they may have caught up eventually, it would've taken a few holes at the least.

[Tcann32]

Uncomfortable position to be in for sure, but in scenario 1 you should have let them play through. Not because your group was slow, clearly you are not. However if you had just let them go through early in the round your group would have had a great time. Why let yourself feel pushed all day? Just because you play in under 4 hours doesn't mean you can't let a group play through. it doesn't represent a failure on your part, it shouldn't be the least bit hostile. Just hit your tee shots on a par 3, wait a few seconds for them to pull up and say "hey fellas, looks like you want to get around here quick, go ahead". They hit, you walk up while they ride up, they play out quickly, you proceed and all have a great day. Delay to you is maybe 2 minutes. It's not a grudge match out there.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. This one was an easy fix. Instead of rushing so as not to be caught or pushed, take your time relax, and send them on through. Both groups are happy.

 

Our group is fast, admittedly sometimes too fast (that's just for RSJ's benefit!), but I've never understood groups who are obviously rushing and out of their normal comfort zone pace wise to stay just barely ahead. There is no stigma associated with letting people play through, it doesn't make anyone a lesser anything.

 

It's a lot more fun for both groups if they can both play at their comfortable pace.

 

We were only concerned with letting them play through because of a group behind them, albeit they were only on tee box's as the group behind us would be on the green.

 

We should've let them play through, I agree in hindsight. The only thing was they were fast off the tee, but I didn't witness them hitting many GIR's, so essentially they would dang near hit into us off the tee, then be slower the rest of the hole, then speed up to tee off, then be slow again, so they never actually caught us on a tee box. They were always 2-3 min behind us, but never gave waiting another minute to continue play.

 

We've let groups play through before in the past, before we were actually competent golfers, and for whatever reason, the course officials don't care for it. If we did it and finished on time I guess it might be another thing, but this place literally lets you know that you're 3 min off pace. I guess it's not a place to play golf and have conversation anyways.

[Tcann32]

No offense, but at my private course, walking isn't permitted until after 11am, because even cart part only with a cart is still going to be faster.

 

I can see that, and I think that depends on the competency of the golfers, and if the people driving can figure out the logistics of proper cart driving and who goes where, when, etc.. I've seen plenty of people in a cart stop for one guy to hit, then walk back across the fairway to the cart, drive 30 yards up, and then the other guy gets out to hit, etc.

 

The cart path only part, and them not following it, was really just a clear example of them not having any sense at all, let alone courtesy. The place isn't a dog track of a course and it doesn't take a genius to figure out your ruining fairways that are meticulously kept.

[North Butte]

There is also a total mismatch of the pacing between walkers and riders. Even if they overall play in the same amount of time for the round, riders and walkers are fast and slow during different portions of playing a given hole.

 

In my experience that always requires a little extra courtesy all around, which seems not to be the strong suit of those jokers teeing off behind you that day?

[Kuz013]

First one is an odd story, you say they were rushing you, but not too the point of having to wait for you, and you only finished 2 minutes ahead of pace?

 

"They pushed us hard the whole front 9, but were never quite fast enough to actually catch up"

 

how could they push you if they never caught you?

[Sun Devil]

I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate. There is so much animosity re: slow groups and here is a group behind you that is actually playing fast. If anything ... this group should be rewarded and allowed to pass.

 

Also ... it seems that you were mad at their antics: music, visiting the cart girl. Funny how this "rude" group was able to buy drinks and visit with the cart girl and still be on your tails.

 

I get it. You don't like to be rushed and you were playing at the proper pace. You said they pushed you hard, but were never fast enough to catch you. Not sure that makes sense.

 

From their perspective .... they probably wanted to pass you guys, but was never offered that option and that probably made them more annoyed.

 

Again ... I'm just looking at it from both perspectives.

[SilverBullets]

First one is an odd story, you say they were rushing you, but not too the point of having to wait for you, and you only finished 2 minutes ahead of pace?

 

"They pushed us hard the whole front 9, but were never quite fast enough to actually catch up"

 

how could they push you if they never caught you?

 

This is the same thing I was thinking. Being pushed is having them sitting there in the fairway watching you, ready to hit, while you are up on the green putting. If that is happening, you should have let them play through. But if they were just also on the hole but not really waiting for more than a second (like they were just ready hit as you were walking off the green) than they weren't really pressing you. There is a big difference there.

 

I am a very fast golfer. I will play 18 holes at my home club, walking, in 2 hours or less if no one is in front of me. I will play 18 holes on an empty course with my wife in 2 hours. With that said, my wife feels rushed basically anytime there is a group behind us that is on the same hole. For no reason really other than the fact that when she started out playing I always stressed the importance of being caught up with the group in front of you and not holding anyone up if there isn't a group in front of you. Perfect example is on vacation this past weekend we played an early morning round on an empty course. We had not seen another group the entire day until about the 13th hole. We both got in a little trouble off the tee on the par 5 and spent a few extra minutes than normal looking for balls (again a totally empty course at this point). We get up to the green and start chipping and I look back and make the comment 'oh hey another group.. looks like they are catching up we may need to keep an eye out and let them through'... My wife went into full blown melt down. Topped a chip then bladed one then hit a horrible putt and picked up... I asked her what the hell just happened (she had been playing really well) and she goes 'I just feel so rushed and so pressed by that group'.

 

I had to explain how just because a group had arrived at the tee box (not even hit a ball yet) on a Par 5 and we were on the green didn't mean they were caught up and we were being pressed. They were technically a full hole behind still. But the sheer sight of a group behind us was enough to feel pressed. In the end, we didn't let them play through. We actually never saw them again. They just closed a little gap because we spent time looking for balls on 13.

 

What I am getting at is there is a big difference between being pressed and a group being on the same hole. If they had been sitting there waiting to hit because we were in the their way, than yeah, we would have been pressed and would have let them play through. If that's the case in the OPs story than he should have let them go. But if they were simply just keeping up but not really waiting than the OP is making something out of nothing.

 

Lastly, just because you played in the 'under 4 hour' rule does not mean you are not at fault. If a group is faster than you and you don't have a group in front of you or you are not caught up to the group in front of you, than you need to let the group play through. Nothing bugs me more than when I have a 8 am tee time and some group has a 745 am tee time and is holding me and my group up with no one in front of them. Solely because they feel they are playing at a good pace. The rule sets a maximum playing time.. not a minimum time. If you have open space ahead of you and a group behind you is playing quicker than you need to let them through. You guys just played the course in 2 mins less than the max time allowed... It's a limit, not a requirement.

[heavy_hitter]

Let them play through. If you are slower than the group behind you, let them play through. I can't stand it when groups in front of me don't let me play through. Great that you were on time. However, if you were feeling pushed, the best case scenario is to let them play through. I see it as your fault for not getting to talk to your friend or being pushed.

[golfgirlrobin]

My husband and I teed off at 6:00 this morning and finished in three hours despite letting two groups play through. One old guy yelled out "Bar opens at 9:00!" as they drove off to the next tee. Obviously, we were miles ahead of pace, but we increase our own enjoyment by just letting them go.

 

People are out there for different reasons. I grind on every shot trying to score, some guys are looking to get some fresh air before the bar opens.

 

None of this means that people behind you who hit too quickly after you clear the green aren't dirtbags. No one should have to worry about getting pegged in the head trying to get their putter back in the bag.

[nochct1]

No offense, but at my private course, walking isn't permitted until after 11am, because even cart part only with a cart is still going to be faster.

 

depends on the course. carts aren't always faster. Give me a walking course with caddies and I'm a happy guy. Only time I like to take a cart is at 5pm when I'm out trying to practice.

[nochct1]

First one is an odd story, you say they were rushing you, but not too the point of having to wait for you, and you only finished 2 minutes ahead of pace?

 

"They pushed us hard the whole front 9, but were never quite fast enough to actually catch up"

 

how could they push you if they never caught you?

 

Good point. Sounds like the OP didn't like seeing anyone on the same hole as him. Perhaps he's a slow player and got out of his comfort zone a bit.

[MadGolfer76]

Marshalls ride along with slow groups, not fast ones.

 

In any case, if it was a problem, you could have let them through and gotten on with your round. Why didn't you?

[pingfool]

3some walking with wide open course.....3:58 is SLOW

 

I would expect 3:30 or less depending on your scores, lost balls etc

 

and how would you know if the guys behind you in carts could have played faster - unless you gave them the opportunity

 

maybe they took their time so as not to rush you

 

4hrs is not a magic number - especially on a wide open course

[smeech8000]

The golf was fine, and we all played reasonably well even though the wind makes this course very tough. Ben (course pro) rode along with us on a couple holes and was very pleasant, helping us find a couple lost balls, etc. I assume he was bored and knew we were being pushed. He spoke with the group behind us about the cart path only rule, again, but knew they were gonna be pushing most of the day on us.

 

Classic passive rangering

[knock it close]

TLDR but 4 hours as a 3 in one of the first groups out is too slow and could set pace back for the whole day and if you felt pushed why didn't you take a 5 minute break and make them go through.

[DavePelz4]

Where are the pics of the cart girl?

[SadTrombone]

Where are the pics of the cart girl?

careful...

[nochct1]

The golf was fine, and we all played reasonably well even though the wind makes this course very tough. Ben (course pro) rode along with us on a couple holes and was very pleasant, helping us find a couple lost balls, etc. I assume he was bored and knew we were being pushed. He spoke with the group behind us about the cart path only rule, again, but knew they were gonna be pushing most of the day on us.

 

Classic passive rangering

 

Good point.

 

Something tells me that the pro wasn't out there because "he was bored." Its a spring weekend at a golf course. The pro doesn't head out to ride along with a threesome because he's a bit bored at 8 in the morning.

[Tcann32]

The golf was fine, and we all played reasonably well even though the wind makes this course very tough. Ben (course pro) rode along with us on a couple holes and was very pleasant, helping us find a couple lost balls, etc. I assume he was bored and knew we were being pushed. He spoke with the group behind us about the cart path only rule, again, but knew they were gonna be pushing most of the day on us.

 

Classic passive rangering

 

Good point.

 

Something tells me that the pro wasn't out there because "he was bored." Its a spring weekend at a golf course. The pro doesn't head out to ride along with a threesome because he's a bit bored at 8 in the morning.

 

Well, when we asked him about pace, since we hadn't even looked at the time as we were trying not to hold the group up any, all he had to say was "you're ahead of pace, and what are they doing with carts in the middle of that fairway?"

 

I get we could've let them play through. I suppose I was just venting at the disrespect of this group towards other golfers with music you could hear from 200 yards away (yes they turned it down when the ranger came around), driving all over wet fairways, and teeing off whenever they apparently felt like. The tee'd off, easily, 10 min before their tee time.

 

Not to mention the only thing I noticed any of them did reasonably well was drive the ball. I watched all 4 of them go on a hole.

 

If they didn't have such blatant disrespect for anything involving etiquette, Id feel differently. It's not like I've never let anyone play through before.

 

The problem wasn't that they had to wait, it's that they weren't waiting.

 

I'm sorry to anyone that feels as though as soon as your feet hit the ground at the course you shouldn't have to spend a single moment not swinging a club in consideration for fellow golfers, but that's generally not the case, and it was 8 in the morning. Not generally a time that the course is empty..

 

We had people infront of us as well. We weren't right on their tails, but had we played speed golf, we would've been.

[MadGolfer76]

The golf was fine, and we all played reasonably well even though the wind makes this course very tough. Ben (course pro) rode along with us on a couple holes and was very pleasant, helping us find a couple lost balls, etc. I assume he was bored and knew we were being pushed. He spoke with the group behind us about the cart path only rule, again, but knew they were gonna be pushing most of the day on us.

 

Classic passive rangering

 

Good point.

 

Something tells me that the pro wasn't out there because "he was bored." Its a spring weekend at a golf course. The pro doesn't head out to ride along with a threesome because he's a bit bored at 8 in the morning.

 

Well, when we asked him about pace, since we hadn't even looked at the time as we were trying not to hold the group up any, all he had to say was "you're ahead of pace, and what are they doing with carts in the middle of that fairway?"

 

I get we could've let them play through. I suppose I was just venting at the disrespect of this group towards other golfers with music you could hear from 200 yards away (yes they turned it down when the ranger came around), driving all over wet fairways, and teeing off whenever they apparently felt like. The tee'd off, easily, 10 min before their tee time.

 

Not to mention the only thing I noticed any of them did reasonably well was drive the ball. I watched all 4 of them go on a hole.

 

If they didn't have such blatant disrespect for anything involving etiquette, Id feel differently. It's not like I've never let anyone play through before.

 

The problem wasn't that they had to wait, it's that they weren't waiting.

 

I'm sorry to anyone that feels as though as soon as your feet hit the ground at the course you shouldn't have to spend a single moment not swinging a club in consideration for fellow golfers, but that's generally not the case, and it was 8 in the morning. Not generally a time that the course is empty..

 

We had people infront of us as well. We weren't right on their tails, but had we played speed golf, we would've been.

 

The question remains - regardless of whether you were ahead of the pace, if they were pushing up against you and that was enough to illicit this kind of upset from you, why didn't you just let them through and be done with it? Why do that to yourself?

[Tcann32]

In hindsight you're correct and for my own enjoyment, I should've let them through.

 

The post was partially to rant, and partially out of curiosity if any had insight on people like this who apparently feel as though they own the course.

 

 

[Augster]

Please let faster groups play through. Very simple.

 

That said, I play with plenty of guys that won't even let a single in a cart through with nobody ahead of us. It's an ego thing. When the OP's situation happens, I just stop playing and wave the group up regardless of what others in my group feel. If they are faster, and there's open space, let them through.

 

Life's too short to do it any other way.

[DLiver]

If you have any experience playing golf, you quickly realize the people who play first thing in the morning generally do so because they play fast, and want to get around the golf course. A 4-hour pace in the first few tee times is glacially slow. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

 

I also agree that 4 hrs for a 3-some with no one in front is a very slow pace. I play with 3 other geezers walking in the middle of the day and we get around in 3:45.

[Tcann32]

Is walking a 6700 yard 73.7/146 in just under 4 hrs that slow?? This isn't a defensive question, I'm honestly curious if people play that fast or if I'm just that slow apparently, even when playing well.

 

The guys behind us were playing up and that makes the course somewhere in the realm of 800 yards shorter. We all shot in the 80's so we weren't playing terribly considering the conditions.

 

People keep saying on a "wide open golf course", but it wasn't wide open.. The group ahead teed off about 15 min ahead of us, so there were instances on the longer par 5's that we still saw them. We never had to wait, but had we been in carts, we wouldn't have been walking from the green and teeing off right away like the group behind us expected us to do. They MAY have gotten in one hole before pushing the next group.

 

I understand the morning thing after my second example I gave. I honestly wasn't privy to that information before that day, and that one I do get. However, I believe you can expect that when you tee off at 6:30. The group behind us wasn't supposed to be off till 8:02 on the tee sheet (in reality they teed off before 7:55), but I wouldn't say that 8 am tee times are a time you can expect to play insanely fast.

 

The second example I gave, negating the frost delay from the equation, was around 6:45. I can see how you'd expect to be one of the first times and to play through at a fast pace. If you want to play as fast as you can and do what you wish, you should tee off first. No? Seems more acceptable to me than having others play to your particular preferences..

 

Personally ego has nothing to do with it. I get where it could be assumed, but it was honestly mind boggling how they kept their pace with how many shots I saw go OB and missed greens.

 

I guess I'm more defensive about the fact that it was just a rude group of guys with blatant disregard to course rules and conditions and pretty much treated the day like it was theirs.

 

Also, is it an unwritten rule that you don't ask to play through? Another honest question. I've been asked before when it's been a single or 2 some and I'm in a group of 4.. But it's far more frequent that people make their presence known by hitting the ball somewhere near you.