ANA rules issue (Merged)

[Aren]

Not sure if anyone else that works closely with pro golf or has friends on tour can chime in, but it's my understanding that there are players on various tours that have a reputation for doing this consistently -- either moving their ball forward a noticeable amount or to the side when replacing it. Whether by habit or worse....it pisses other players off, but doesn't get called out. I wonder if this will lead to others getting called out on this rules infraction.

 

For years I have noticed PGA players shoving the marker under the ball and then replacing the ball with the vertical back edge of the ball front edge of the marker technique.. This can supply a fraction of an inch advantage, not much but clearly more than what Lexi did.

 

But still on the sane line, not a different line, which can make a world of difference when there's a spike mark on the original line. Not that two wrongs make a right

[Hot Rod 71]

The tournament is for 4 days..

You almost have think of it as 1 round = a quarter ( for most games)..

 

I do agree that they should not have penalized her day later.. if it was in the same day, maybe..

 

That's the biggest beef I have with the whole situation. Imagine if the NFL took phone calls like this.

 

Imagine this headline in the paper - "Superbowl winners forced to give trophy back after phone in rules infraction discovered the next day"

 

How would that go over?

[Alhawkeye]

The problem, as I see it, is the timing. Certainly there was a breech of the rules. Probably without intent. Her playing competitors are with her to "protect" the rest of the field. If they didn't see anything wrong with it, and obviously they didn't, then when the round is over, it is COMPLETELY over. The arm chair QB's has to stop.

 

My bet is that this type of thing seldom occurs and I doubt she did it with any "intent". Even if she did, and her playing partners didn't have a problem with it, it's OVER!!!! It's NOT a rules question in my mind, it's about answering emails and phone calls that gets the officials in trouble.

[Bc_in_IL]

I've been in a rules situation similar to Lexi before. In a sudden-death playoff I marked my ball and moved it back the wrong way by accident, finished out, and got DQd. It's not something I've ever done before or have done since but unless you've been in that position before it's really tough to make a judgement on intent.

 

Did you get DQed the next day 12 holes into your next round?

 

No. All I'm trying to say is people do weird things under pressure that they wouldn't otherwise do if they weren't in contention.

[Hot Rod 71]

It's been very polarising.....

 

 

 

So I suppose Westwood remarks his ball on the SAME EXACT SPOT every time? Not a millimeter left, or a millimeter right, but the SAME EXACT SPOT......

[Warrick]

The tournament is for 4 days..

You almost have think of it as 1 round = a quarter ( for most games)..

 

I do agree that they should not have penalized her day later.. if it was in the same day, maybe..

 

That's the biggest beef I have with the whole situation. Imagine if the NFL took phone calls like this.

 

Imagine this headline in the paper - "Superbowl winners forced to give trophy back after phone in rules infraction discovered the next day"

 

How would that go over?

 

NFL has in game instant replay, big difference.

[youraway2]

First to those that say she gained no advantage. As some have pointed out there did appear to be a slight depression(old pitch mark?) where her ball was originally settled. Moving it to the side just half an inch or less could get it out of that hole.

 

Second, know yourselves out guys. Record the telecast and go through it with a fine tooth comb-or magnifying glass. My bet is that most rounds you would find nothing close to being a violation.

 

Third. Golf accepts these call ins because of the field it is played on. To say a fellow competitor or rules official can be the only ones to notify a possible rules violation is crazy. Remember-the caller does not enforce the rule they just notify of a possible breach. The lady official stated that they already get quite a few calls every week but that the actual infractions are rare. So knock yourselves out calling into the Masters or future LPGA events.

 

The ruling was correct. The wrong scorecard penalty is the one that should not be in play a day or two or three later.

 

Agree 100%.

 

Almost agree - since the competition was not over, the scorecard she signed incorrectly must be taken into consideration. She didn't get disqualified. but received a two-stroke penalty for signing for an incorrect score. This is the Rules of Golf. If the competition was over and a violation was discovered after the close that she did not know occurred, the results would stand. In this case the competition was not over and the correct decision was made on how she violated the Rules of Golf.

[legitimategolf]

interesting to see how few people are faulting Lexi for the gaffe.

 

Agree. In the grand scheme of things, that'd be the simplest solution--Lexi being more careful about marking the ball. Instead, some people react by wanting to blow up the entire system.

[farmer]

It is clear, with hd and slow motion zoom, that Lexi inadvertently replaced her ball incorrectly. Couldn't have been more than a half inch (she wasn't using a poker chip), but the rule was violated. So, a penalty called, fine. Signed an incorrect scorecard, penalty assessed, correct. To call both penalties, correct, but not equitable. Like hitting a ball OB and being assessed a shot for OB and a shot for a lost ball. All tours that are televised need to have a point at which all evidence indicates that scores are correct, and will stand. The penalties as assessed were correct, but inequitable. Inequitable in that not all players are under the same scrutiny as the leading groups. If the incorrect marking was exposed today, the reaction would be that there was no competitive advantage, move on.

[krtgolfing]

The tournament is for 4 days..

You almost have think of it as 1 round = a quarter ( for most games)..

 

I do agree that they should not have penalized her day later.. if it was in the same day, maybe..

 

That's the biggest beef I have with the whole situation. Imagine if the NFL took phone calls like this.

 

Imagine this headline in the paper - "Superbowl winners forced to give trophy back after phone in rules infraction discovered the next day"

 

How would that go over?

 

NFL has in game instant replay, big difference.

 

Not for holding, pass interference, etc... Let me call the NFL to tell them they miss a late hit on a QB!

[Hot Rod 71]

The tournament is for 4 days..

You almost have think of it as 1 round = a quarter ( for most games)..

 

I do agree that they should not have penalized her day later.. if it was in the same day, maybe..

 

That's the biggest beef I have with the whole situation. Imagine if the NFL took phone calls like this.

 

Imagine this headline in the paper - "Superbowl winners forced to give trophy back after phone in rules infraction discovered the next day"

 

How would that go over?

 

NFL has in game instant replay, big difference.

 

Yes they do, but there are missed calls during the game all the time. Imagine a hold (not seen by the officials) leads to a 40 yard run and touchdown in the third quarter. A fan calls in 30 minutes later and reveals the miss by the officials. The touchdown is taken away during the fourth quarter.

 

I think everyone here can agree what Lexi did was a clear rules infraction. The issue is the call in rules official.

 

No one returns their ball to the EXACT same spot every time. Its not possible.

[Hogan's Cardy]

Well let's just be thankful that only a very small minority report stuff or it could end up like that Tom Cruise movie.

 

Forget it's name now.

[KyGolf]

IMO rules of golf that penalizes players for an infraction that will not cause a competitive advantage should be abolished. An improper marking by 1/2-1 inch on a one foot putt would apply. A club brushing blades of grass on the way back in hazard would also apply. Where do you draw the line? That's what a ruling committee would be for at a golf tourament. Review video and make that judgment. Maximum penalty? 1 stroke. And who in their anal capacity ever implemented a penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard?

 

 

 

 

From the Rules of Golf R&A Sept. 26, 1899

 

4. The scores shall be kept by a special marker or by the competitors noting each other’s scores. The scores marked shall be checked after each hole. On completion of the round, the score of the competitor shall be signed by the marker, counter-signed by the competitor, and handed to the Secretary or his deputy, after which, unless it be found that a card returned shows a score below that actually played (in which case the competitor shall be disqualified), no correction or alteration can be made.

[deadsolid...shank]

interesting to see how few people are faulting Lexi for the gaffe.

 

Agree. In the grand scheme of things, that'd be the simplest solution--Lexi being more careful about marking the ball. Instead, some people react by wanting to blow up the entire system.

 

There's an awful lot of posts that are saying the bottom line is it was her fault.

[ExProGoingBack]

I feel the best way to avoid this is to hole out from the fairway

[gunmetal]

sucks..right call though.. arm chair quarterbacks strike again.

 

but video does show a change of ball position...

 

Nobody replaces their ball in the exact same spot. I'm going to take my GH5 and a nice Panasonic leica zoom lens and start following random pros around the course and get them all DQ'd or 4 shot penalties. Just for kicks. I'll do it in the first round and wait to see if they make the cut then call in on the back 9 on Sunday and ask where I send my footage.

 

Professional golf has more in common with the WWE than they do with integrity, honesty, and all that other first tee garbage that they hilariously brag about.

[youraway2]

Four strokes for replacing your ball half an inch to the side in a previous round, plus the mental state she'll be in for the rest of the round, that's rough.

 

Yes it's tough, but she''s the one who committed a rules infraction. No one else, just her. It's two-strokes for playing from the wrong place, and two-strokes fro signing an incorrect sore card

[SlickT73]

That this happened the weekend before the Masters is horrifying. They're going to be flooded by every Joe half-knows-the-rules who has now remembered they can have a few minutes of "fame".

 

Sounds like you're assuming that everyone in golf breaks the rules all the time, they just aren't being scrutinized enough.

 

Nope, but a bunch of goofs who half know the rules think that and like to try to cause trouble.

[warfelg]

Well let's just be thankful that only a very small minority report stuff or it could end up like that Tom Cruise movie.

 

Forget it's name now.

 

[Texsport]

A complete disgrace for the LPGA!

 

Consider:

 

(1) The only reason she marked her ball was to avoid stepping on playing companion's line.

(2) It was a 1 foot putt

(3) No advantage was gained

(4) And if you are going to split hairs, how fine do you want to examine spots? Every time someone spots the ball it is physically impossible to put the ball back in exactly the same spot - within millionths of a mm! Every replaced ball is in a different spot - every one! The point is no advantage gained! A 1 foot putt, only visible on slow motion with a telephoto lens! REDICULOUS!

 

I'd guess that the player's relationship with the T V people just got more than arm's length also - they furnished the evidence.

 

If Ryu had any sense, she should have tanked the playoff. Now, her "victory" is forever tainted and she actually now must win at least another major to validate this one in my mind.

 

As Jed Clampett would say - "Pitiful, just pitiful!"

 

Texsport

[ExProGoingBack]

sucks..right call though.. arm chair quarterbacks strike again.

 

but video does show a change of ball position...

 

Nobody replaces their ball in the exact same spot. I'm going to take my GH5 and a nice Panasonic leica zoom lens and start following random pros around the course and get them all DQ'd or 4 shot penalties. Just for kicks. I'll do it in the first round and wait to see if they make the cut then call in on the back 9 on Sunday and ask where I send my footage.

 

Professional golf has more in common with the WWE than they do with integrity, honesty, and all that other first tee garbage that they hilariously brag about.

 

But as in football there has to be clear and concise evidence of the issue at hand... you may not get that with a 1/8 inch move with any type of camera... there was enough evidence at first review in lexi's case

[North Texas]

It's been very polarising.....

 

 

 

So I suppose Westwood remarks his ball on the SAME EXACT SPOT every time? Not a millimeter left, or a millimeter right, but the SAME EXACT SPOT......

 

Not only that, but I bet that if Lee paid really close attention, he would notice some other players that are "unintentionally" careless how they mark and then replace their ball. And he would also notice that there are some players that are "intentionally" careless with the process as well.

 

I would also bet that you would find that is the case on just about every pro golf tour, men or women.

[Hogan's Cardy]

Four strokes for replacing your ball half an inch to the side in a previous round, plus the mental state she'll be in for the rest of the round, that's rough.

 

Yes it's tough, but she''s the one who committed a rules infraction. No one else, just her. It's two-strokes for playing from the wrong place, and two-strokes fro signing an incorrect sore card

 

It's a good job that golf's severe penalties and strict enforcement for punishing mistakes don't stretch into other areas of life.

[youraway2]

A complete disgrace for the LPGA!

 

Consider:

 

(1) The only reason she marked her ball was to avoid stepping on playing companion's line.

(2) It was a 1 foot putt

(3) No advantage was gained

(4) And if you are going to split hairs, how fine do you want to examine spots? Every time someone spots the ball it is physically impossible to put the ball back in exactly the same spot - within millionths of a mm! Every replaced ball is in a different spot - every one! The point is no advantage gained! A 1 foot putt, only visible on slow motion with a telephoto lens! REDICULOUS!

 

I'd guess that the player's relationship with the T V people just got more than arm's length also - they furnished the evidence.

 

If Ryu had any sense, she should have tanked the playoff. Now, her "victory" is forever tainted and she actually now must win at least another major to validate this one in my mind.

 

As Jed Clampett would say - "Pitiful, just pitiful!"

 

Texsport

 

You can clearly see she started to putt out, then saw something and decided to lift and replace the ball in a different spot. She didn't lift the ball because of another players line. If so she would have waited; which in hindsight would have been a good idea, she could have gotten away with violating the Rules.

[jayman2982]

interesting to see how few people are faulting Lexi for the gaffe. she could have avoided this situation altogether had she a)just tapped it in or b)marked it from behind and replaced it squarely in front of the maker.

 

saw Chella Choi's video as well. indisputable evidence she moved it from right to left. don't know how she couldn't agree with the ruling. if you don't like the rules, than don't play. very simple.

 

Lexi almost won despite it all. I give her credit for fighting til the end but she did make a mistake. and it cost her dearly.

 

they are professionals, aren't they? they should treat the rules as such whether they agree with them or not.

 

It's not that I or others don't fault her for the gaffe. The problem is the timing of calling said penalty. The fact that it took a day later to penalize her is what we have an issue with. I for one don't like the rule that she signed an incorrect scorecard. It was correct at the time signed, now you want to penalize me the next day. Its like if you signed a contract and then someone added some small print after you signed it. You'd have the right to dispute the added text as you did not sign it when that was written. On saturday she signed a 70 or whatever, on sunday it was turned into a 72 therefor she should have to sign a new card. To me its a bogus rule.

 

Not to mention the fact that we are splitting hairs when we are supposed to mark it exactly as it lye. How exact is it supposed to be. I can tell you every time everyone marks a ball we are off by what 1-7mm. I don't consider it cheating if you ball is off by something negligible. I could be wrong. There should be in the spirit of the game rule where a judging body can determine whether the punishment fits the crime. Not to mention the fact that its an unfair advantage to have every shot scrutinized when you're leading a tournament. The same move could be made by the DFL player and go unnoticed. But it took a 4k Hd camera to catch the ball. Should she be penalized two strokes, yes the same DAY. If she won the tournament and someone saw a replay that night would the call still stand? Or would they let it pass? Why because the tournament was over? The round was over! Whats done is done. If you don't catch it the day of so be it, tell the player about the infraction and let it be know your looking for it from now on.

[clinkinfo]

are we all incensed because she is so likable? what if this was Tiger v Phil and Tiger made this error or Phil made this error, I would imagine records being broken on WRX lol

 

No, everyone is angry because another non-impacting, no-consequence rule infraction, phoned in by a television viewer who watched it in slow motion, determined the outcome of a major.

 

No one at the course saw the issue, only someone in their house, with a DVR on slow motion repeat saw an issue.

 

This is what's killing the game of golf. There's a difference between a Nobel game where we call penalties on ourselves, and a tv viewer watching something in slow motion TO FIND an infraction, which incidentally was unintentional and had no realistic impact on the outcome of the hole.

[rangersgoalie]

Can I go look at my old VHS tapes of THE MASTERS. And call in a rules infraction from 2005..???? this once again shows how stupid some of the rules of golf are. 19th century rules for a 21 st century game.

 

Football games are over the next day.

 

Golf is a four round competition, and the scores for every hole matter in the outcome.

 

I agree it sucks, and maybe the rule for signing the incorrect card should be looked at, but like Dustin Johnson,

These are professional golfers, and one of the most basic rules of playing professional golf is to mark the ball properly.

I have little doubt more players could be penalized for this rule, but if I noticed a player mark a ball that badly I would say

Something. In fact, as a player, I MUST say something.

The rule will likely be changed again and end up being two shots, but for Gods sake, Lexi screwed up, intentionally or not,

Got penalized, and responded incredibly. But she broke the rule.

[Need2golfalot]

The Koreans did it. Hyundai was going to cancel their sponsorship if Lexi won. All pro sports are rigged.

[Laznasty]

What an absolute disgrace :bad:

[Warrick]

A complete disgrace for the LPGA!

 

Consider:

 

(1) The only reason she marked her ball was to avoid stepping on playing companion's line.

(2) It was a 1 foot putt

(3) No advantage was gained

(4) And if you are going to split hairs, how fine do you want to examine spots? Every time someone spots the ball it is physically impossible to put the ball back in exactly the same spot - within millionths of a mm! Every replaced ball is in a different spot - every one! The point is no advantage gained! A 1 foot putt, only visible on slow motion with a telephoto lens! REDICULOUS!

 

I'd guess that the player's relationship with the T V people just got more than arm's length also - they furnished the evidence.

 

If Ryu had any sense, she should have tanked the playoff. Now, her "victory" is forever tainted and she actually now must win at least another major to validate this one in my mind.

 

As Jed Clampett would say - "Pitiful, just pitiful!"

 

Texsport

 

 

I just don't understand this line of thinking. No way Lexi would want that. Anyone putting anything on So Yeon, is just short sighted and bitter.

 

Quit, throw in the towel in golf, are you f'in kidding me?

 

Aren't we all praising Lexi for facing a crap situation and almost pulling it out. She did not quit, she fought for the win, and I am sure expected her competitors to do the same.