Thoughts on Couch Potatoes Calling in Penalties

[elwhippy]

We have a member who can quote the Decisions on the Rules book word for word never mind the normal rules....he will be frothing at the mouth in excitement over this ruling and no doubt waiting to call it in a medal.....A horrendous day for Lexi and a hollow victory for the winner. And you wonder why Golf struggles to attract new female members.....

[HighSpeedScene]

Thank God somebody called in - would look WAY worse if it was discovered after the close of the tournament and then poor Lexi would have to answer questions about how she won but didn't really deserve it.

 

I feel like I'm in the minority, but as a player I would rather know about all infractions - if I dont catch it, I would want someone to catch it. Of course, if it was deliberate, can't imagine anyone making the argument that it shouldn't be enforced?

 

So, would you like your cake or eat it? Oh, both, I see...

[Yrrdead]

Thank God somebody called in - would look WAY worse if it was discovered after the close of the tournament and then poor Lexi would have to answer questions about how she won but didn't really deserve it.

 

I feel like I'm in the minority, but as a player I would rather know about all infractions - if I dont catch it, I would want someone to catch it. Of course, if it was deliberate, can't imagine anyone making the argument that it shouldn't be enforced?

 

So, would you like your cake or eat it? Oh, both, I see...

 

Honestly I'm with you and some of the other rules guys. The problem is the next day halfway into your round deal. That is what magnifies this into a political disaster no matter which way you lean. To be fair i don't have a good solution, and the optics are terrible especially to casual golf fans or even other sports fans.

 

But if I was playing a match and noticed my opponent pulling that I'd be on him in a heartbeat. I don't play on pristine courses all the time and I've had to give my buddy crap about doing a similar move to edge his ball around a little bad spot on the green. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Cameron_W]

The way the penalty has been called is strange but Lexi should be ashamed as she clearly moves the ball about an inch closer to the hole.

[soregongolfer]

The callers are protecting the field. I have no problem with it.

[soregongolfer]

The LPGA could have handled this a variety of ways. They could have ignored it. They could have looked at it and determined there was a lack of evidence to penalize Lexi, especially since it was from a previous round. Or they could have handled it like they did.

 

I will say that since the LPGA volunteered that they looked at this because of an email, they should make the email public and out the name and email address if the sender. If some random persons view is gonna affect a championship score, it deserves to be made public. Perhaps that will stop this rash of people thinking they are officials by knowing of they call in a supposed rules violation, they will be made public.

 

I feel sick for Lexi. And the LPGA should be ashamed of how they handled this.

 

You're going to out somebody because they were right about something? Good thing you're not in charge of any sort of whistleblowing protection operation.

[playa]

Not only that but video review as well. Completely unfair.

Not only unfair but completely biased against the leaders. I know its an old argument but unless they have a camera crew following every group around the course, video evidence should not be admissable. A penalty should only be called by a rules official right there at the time, a playing partner, or the player themself. This was only a two foot putt fcs. Does anyone deserve to lose a major for incorrectly marking a two foot putt? In the context of the penalty of four strokes and the consequence of costing someone a major, this is the worst match officials decision in the history of golf.

[Hubijerk]

And especially needs to stop a full day later. If these fuc@tards feel the need to call in, call in when you see it not days later. Lexi showed so much class. Life changing event. needs to be a limit when these people can call in, rules of golf need to be updated regarding this.

 

What if someone review all of Ryu's shots and finds something is she getting a DQ? After the call they should have reviewed it and deremined it had no effect on the outcome. At worse a 2 shot penalty.

 

Results have been announced and the championship is over. You can review and call/email all you want, but they aren't going to do anything about it.

 

I have a few thoughts on this.

 

1st. I have no issue with people calling in or emailing if they see something. It's been said time and again, and I happen to believe it, that this is our game, as in collectively. I do believe that there has to be some control in place as to when the complaint is looked at, by whom and how the decision is made to pursue penalty. We are not just spectators, and that's what separates this game from basketball, and football, etc.. We are all stewards of the game.

 

2nd. Just like you stated above, when the tourney is over, it's over... When the 1st tee shot in the next round is hit, any chance to penalize players for previous rounds should be lost. So to clarify.. You played day 1 with 15 clubs and no one noticed, round 2 starts and 1st player's ball is in the air... It's over, you got away with it... You hit the wrong ball and didn't say anything and no one noticed and called you on it... next day, 1st tee shot of the day, It's over, you got away with it... etc.. Any penalties for previous round must be incurred before the 1st player of the next round hits a shot. That way you can adjust scores and pairings. Obviously the PGA Tour can levy whatever suspensions and punishment for misconduct etc. they deem appropriate (If it's egregious and intentional or frequent)

 

3rd. The 2 stroke penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard should be reserved for those times where it's deemed more likely than not an attempt to deceive... It doesn't seem right to penalize someone for not declaring something that they were unaware of... And, btw, Lexi wasn't the only one who signed an incorrect scorecard then... Both signers were unaware an infraction was committed, but both attested and signed it was correct.

 

4th. The idea of replacing the ball to the exact spot is an absurd premise, it's pretty much impossible to return the ball to the EXACT spot. So rule on an official max marker size, then allow for placement around the entire perimeter of the mark as long as it's no closer to the hole (so basically 180 degrees). Limit the ability to mark to once per putt.

[RBImGuy]

no issue, happens, need to deal with it without getting emotional.

[MarkFromTheUK]

I don't have a problem with the ruling or the outcome.

 

It would be interesting to know what sort of person it was that called in. To me there are two options... a golf rules anorak who watches coverage solely for occurrences like this, or someone with a dislike for Thompson.

 

Perhaps there's someone employed by the South Korean government to watch golf, and help their nation win at all costs. (Don't worry, I'm not being serious about that one).

 

I wonder if the caller would have called in if it was his/her favourite player who had made the infringement.

 

The only solution to this is to have an official from the LPGA/USGA watching the TV feed for any rules errors, and feeding back to the on-course rules officials immediately. Take it out of the hands of the anoraks.

 

 

[tannyhoban]

To ""protect the field" in theory cameras would need to be on every shot of every round for this type of "violation". Ridiculous.

[FriedEgg]

The whole thing is ridiculous. The players and on-site officials should be making the penalty calls not someone sitting at home with their DVR. Tournament officials simply ignore these calls and e-mails!

[Sean2]

If they are going to continue with these rulings then EVERY shot by EVERY player needs to be scrutinized and adjudicated...zoomed in with slo-motion.

[madaboutgolf]

Heart breaking for Lexi ..if it was in the wrong place surely common sense should prevail ?

 

no advantage was gained ? it was still a kick in ?

[MtlJeff]

what's the call in number and email address to LPGA?

I don't think emailers do not get penalized for false report so let's send billions emails per day to see if they review every single inquiry.

 

That's actually a funny idea.

 

"hideki killed a bug, I think that's a penalty! "

[kwelifan]

The problem is not the viewer calling it in. People suck, and this is their MO.

 

The problem is that there is a place to call in to (or write and email, etc.) Why does this exist at all. And why would any pro tour respond to or encourage this. Its never going to end well for them.

[chris975d]

For those who want penalties to only apply if found on that day: Consider that the winner is the player who scores the lowest aggregate score for ALL ROUNDS. Not applying a penalty for Saturday's round affects the tournament as a whole, not just for Saturday.

 

It seems harsh but it follows logic.

 

But, a breach of rules that occurs on Sunday, but isn't found until Monday incurs NO penalty, because "competition has closed". What if the winner is found to have made a serious breach of a rule after they have accepted the trophy? Nothing happens, and the outcome stays the same. If this call in crap after the round doesn't apply to the final round, it shouldn't apply to any. Simple logic.

 

Your argument for "not applying a penalty for Saturday's round affects the tournament as a whole..." isn't sound, because my example above means that the committee wouldn't apply a penalty for a Sunday violation that was found after that day. So Sunday rules violations that go unnoticed until later aren't as important as the other 3 days? Or...do away with this call in after the round is completed BS? Which follows "logic"?

[philly2kuk]

I have no issue with the two stroke penalty IF she has replaced it incorrectly (I haven't seen the footage). The extra two strokes for the incorrect score are unfair, as this has been noticed a day later. Had it been noticed on the day before she'd finished, they could've been added on with no further issues. The incorrect score penalty is not designed for situations like this.

 

Would just be nice for the rules people to stop making the game look so bad. Yes, they need to protect the field, but the way they have gone about it just paints golf in a bad light.

[JaNelson38]

The LPGA could have handled this a variety of ways. They could have ignored it. They could have looked at it and determined there was a lack of evidence to penalize Lexi, especially since it was from a previous round. Or they could have handled it like they did.

 

I will say that since the LPGA volunteered that they looked at this because of an email, they should make the email public and out the name and email address if the sender. If some random persons view is gonna affect a championship score, it deserves to be made public. Perhaps that will stop this rash of people thinking they are officials by knowing of they call in a supposed rules violation, they will be made public.

 

I feel sick for Lexi. And the LPGA should be ashamed of how they handled this.

 

You're going to out somebody because they were right about something? Good thing you're not in charge of any sort of whistleblowing protection operation.

 

"Whistleblowing protection operation"? LOL. This isnt something that involves national security or federal crimes.

 

If a major professional sports body is going to literally change the outcome of the event due to an outside entity calling in a potential rules violation, whomever calls it in absolutely should be made public. Its only fair to the golfer involved, to the rest of the field, and the fans watching/attending the event.

 

This change doesnt happen without this person calling/emailing in about it, about 18 hours AFTER it actually happened. It reeks of shady malfeasance, especially since when the ruling was made, Lexi looked to be cruising to victory. If I was part of the LPGA decision making team regarding this, the email would be already made public, just to avoid scrutiny that the LPGA made up some sort of ruling to put some excitement in the final few holes of a major.

 

In no other professional sport does this happen, where spectators can make officiating calls. Who's in charge here? The actual tournament officials, or people watching at home who may have a vested interest in who wins? These tours have numerous paid rules officials. Let them and the marshals they task to run the tournament actually be in charge.

 

This ruling didnt just change the outcome for Lexi. It tainted the final round for the whole field. If Lexi is penalized properly and this ruling is assessed when she signs her card after the 3rd round, she's penalized 2 strokes after Saturday's round and then put in the proper tee time for Sunday. Instead, because the LPGA missed the call, the entire final round is now sabotaged because she played 12 holes in an incorrect position relative to the field with an incorrect score....and BECAUSE the LPGA missed the call, Lexi gets an additional 2 stroke penalty for an incorrect score. At that point, the LPGA should simply say, "We missed that call, she should have been penalized, but we would damage the integrity of the tournament by making a change now." Its exactly why one of the proposed USGA/R&A rule changes for next year is that golfers can now not be penalized for piddly crap like this. It was a f'in 8 inch putt.

[warfelg]

I don't have a problem with the ruling or the outcome.

 

It would be interesting to know what sort of person it was that called in. To me there are two options... a golf rules anorak who watches coverage solely for occurrences like this, or someone with a dislike for Thompson.

 

Perhaps there's someone employed by the South Korean government to watch golf, and help their nation win at all costs. (Don't worry, I'm not being serious about that one).

 

I wonder if the caller would have called in if it was his/her favourite player who had made the infringement.

 

The only solution to this is to have an official from the LPGA/USGA watching the TV feed for any rules errors, and feeding back to the on-course rules officials immediately. Take it out of the hands of the anoraks.

 

Better question yet:

Why did it take them so long to write in?

 

The rules official clearly said "We were just notified about it and investigated as fast as we could" and I believe that. But why did this happen on 17 Saturday (likely about 5-6pm) and not notify anyone until 13 Sunday (likely about 4-5pm). Makes the whistleblower look sad and pathetic IMO.

[Outlier]

Apparently it wasn't a couch potato or armchair fan, it was an experienced rules official on a major tour who called in. Probably the only person who cares enough about the rules to do it.

 

But I think there are issues going forward about:

 

1) The time that passed before the penalty was given.

2) The double penalty, why should you be further penalised for an incorrect scorecard for a penalty you incur a day later? The rule of incorrect scorecard is meant to protect the integrity of the game but there's no way that she could have signed a correct scorecard in this instance, so the additional penalty is unfair.

 

They need COMPLETE transparency here....sounds like "Joe" the tour official called a buddy, then to "CYA" working rules officials told "Joe" to send me an email. Are we to really believe that they are reviewing all the miscellaneous emails sent in Friday night or Saturday afternoon during a major championship? I think not! So if it was in fact an "insider" official not John Q Public , public disclosure and full transparency is appropriate.

[Nessism]

This link is to the USGA "contact us" page...http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/contact-us.html

 

I just sent a message about how the rules need to be improved to avoid stupid rulings like this one against Lexi.

 

1) if a mistake is made and a person should have been penalized but wasn't, applying TWO penalties, one for the rules infraction and a second for signing an incorrect scorecard, is double dipping. There should be one penalty.

 

2) rule infractions should be made on the course during play of the round. Not after the fact as called in by a third party. One exception: if the third party notes fragrant cheating.

[Backspin9]

Can't really add anything except that no other sport allows some busybody at home affect the outcome of an event. Refs miss calls all the time. Once it's done, it's over. Move on. Assessing a penalty the next day is beyond ridiculous and needs to stop. It really tarnishes professional golf.

[Sun Devil]

I see a bigger issue. Seems to me that a lot of the pros seem to nonchalantly mark their balls. I mean ... can it be ascertained that the ball is marked PERFECTLY every time by every pro? Where do you draw the line? If you magnified the ball marking procedure .... sh*t .... half the field would be penalized.

 

Call in for rule infractions. NO NO NO. If the tournament officials cannot police their own tournament ... they should find another job.

[jimb6golf]

The call in rulings and late ruling penalties have to stop. This is absolutely ridiculous and unfair to the player and the fans. No one should be allowed to call in and report an infraction. Not only does it adversely affect the event it also only affects those on TV and not the others that are playing with no TV coverage. It is completely unfair. It's especially awful when the rules official on course tells a player one thing and then a penalty is called on the player by some remote official watching TV in the truck. There is no other sport where Joe Coach Potato can call in with a rules infraction. And golf is the only sport where you call penalties on yourself where all other sports try to hide the infractions (re: faking a catch, flopping, etc.).

[heavy_hitter]

No Penalties should be assessed from an email or call in. EVER.

 

Video should only be used to help with assessing a ruling. If it is not seen in real time, you may not use video.

 

The only way video may be used is if every shot, every stroke, every shot, every coin moved to get a mark out of a line, every spot of the ball, by every player for every tournament round is recorded and played live in TV without a close up view. Otherwise the integrity of the game is questioned.

 

Once a round is posted, no penalties may be assessed.

[Outlier]

I see a bigger issue. Seems to me that a lot of the pros seem to nonchalantly mark their balls. I mean ... can it be ascertained that the ball is marked PERFECTLY every time by every pro? Where do you draw the line? If you magnified the ball marking procedure .... sh*t .... half the field would be penalized.

 

Call in for rule infractions. NO NO NO. If the tournament officials cannot police their own tournament ... they should find another job.

 

Exactly......extremely high probability this happens frequently in all events. At minimum, an imperfection or slope in the green could cause an oscillation resulting in a ball placement discrepancy similar to what appears in this instance. While I am not a tour player, I believe it is fair to say we all know this to be the case. If it is deemed that her ball was materially out of position, I would argue that every time a ball is pick up and put back down it is also technically not in the same position.

[HighSpeedScene]

I have no issue with the two stroke penalty IF she has replaced it incorrectly (I haven't seen the footage). The extra two strokes for the incorrect score are unfair, as this has been noticed a day later. Had it been noticed on the day before she'd finished, they could've been added on with no further issues. The incorrect score penalty is not designed for situations like this.

 

Would just be nice for the rules people to stop making the game look so bad. Yes, they need to protect the field, but the way they have gone about it just paints golf in a bad light.

 

How do they penalize the action but look the other way on the incorrect card penalty? Unless they want to say that there's no way she could have known that it was a penalty for the action?

 

How much sense would that make? The committee really doesn't have any leeway there, unless they want to make it a BIGGER cluster

[heavy_hitter]

I see a bigger issue. Seems to me that a lot of the pros seem to nonchalantly mark their balls. I mean ... can it be ascertained that the ball is marked PERFECTLY every time by every pro? Where do you draw the line? If you magnified the ball marking procedure .... sh*t .... half the field would be penalized.

 

Call in for rule infractions. NO NO NO. If the tournament officials cannot police their own tournament ... they should find another job.

 

It is impossible for anyone to place the ball EXACTLY in the same place that you picked it up from.

 

Does this mean when a player moves the mark that is in another player's line that they will be scrutinized to get in back into the same exact place? It will NEVER happen. If I were the player I would tell my partner to EFF off because I am not moving it.

 

I can't wait until a rules official tells someone they received a penalty because of something stupid like this and the player beats the living bleep out of them. It is nonsense.

[HighSpeedScene]

This link is to the USGA "contact us" page...http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/contact-us.html

 

I just sent a message about how the rules need to be improved to avoid stupid rulings like this one against Lexi.

 

1) if a mistake is made and a person should have been penalized but wasn't, applying TWO penalties, one for the rules infraction and a second for signing an incorrect scorecard, is double dipping. There should be one penalty.

 

2) rule infractions should be made on the course during play of the round. Not after the fact as called in by a third party. One exception: if the third party notes fragrant cheating.

 

LOL - hopefully it is also melodic where applicable.