Johnny laughs at 63

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Does anyone really think a young Nicklaus at 22 years old wouldn't be as long or longer than Koepka, DJ etc

 

If so, I find that hard to fathom

 

He'd be as long. But he'd have a bunch of guys hitting it as far as him and would be away as much as in front. Instead of his main challengers being 20+ yards back every day.

 

He may not have like that much ' )

 

Nicklaus could outdrive anyone any time he wanted. And that's if he didn't want to tee off with a 1-iron.

 

Wow! Could he really?! I wish I had that superpower. I would invoke it on every single hole. It's just so classy that Jack didn't do it all the time even though he could. No wonder so many called him JackClass.

[johnnypro]

I think even the Wrx young guys realize (deep down) that some of our old US Open champs would annihilate Erin Hills with modern equipment

 

Miller and Nicklaus (and dare I say Hogan) included

 

Unless you have played persimmon and balata in tournament golf events ... it's hard to understand ... and Miller and Jack had to test balls for roundness ... I think 1/3 max were playable from MacGregor

 

also possible they were masters of the persimmon and balata with their swings.. but would suck with modern equipment or above all won't separate from the field

 

Hmmmm......I don't think so

[Ashley Schaeffer]

I wish there was a better way to evaluate depth of field between eras. I have to believe the 50th, 200th, and 1000th best golfers right now are easily better than those in eras past. Unless golf is different than every other sport where athletes are getting more and more talented producing deeper and deeper fields.

 

Save some time:

 

A: But look at all the Legends and HOFers from yesteryear

B. Yeah, but the fields were weaker

A: Wrong! Look at how many guys in those fields have multiple majors

B: Yeah, that proves the point

A: But the Legends had to eat persimmons, and hit balatas

B: K...I'm not denying the equipment is better now

A: Jack and the Legends Guild would've easily won more and annihilated courses with the modern stuff if everyone had it then

B: Yeah, that kinda proves the point, even more so now

A: You don't know what you're talking about!!! I'm mad!

[bscinstnct]

I wish there was a better way to evaluate depth of field between eras. I have to believe the 50th, 200th, and 1000th best golfers right now are easily better than those in eras past. Unless golf is different than every other sport where athletes are getting more and more talented producing deeper and deeper fields.

 

There was a study, I can't find it anymore, was it Pelz? Not sure. But he analyzed data on Hogan's ball striking/proximity stats compared to players in in the 2000s sometime. There were definitely some issues comparing accross timelines given the clubs, ball, and course differences but, from what I recall, it seemed that the top 50 guys or more on the PGA tour (in this 2000ish year )were as good iron ball strikers as Hogan.

 

Wish I could find it.....

[Sean2]

That's why comparisons among eras is flawed. Not only was the equipment different, but so were the courses. Today, courses are manicured to perfection, most cut and roll their fairways for TV purposes, and the greens are pristine.

 

People can argue about the players, depth of fields, and what not, but there is no definitive answer, just a lot of speculation and opinion.

[Darth Putter]

One thing you can compare across eras, Johnny Miller shot 63 and walked off with the US Open trophy. Justin Thomas shot 63 and walked off with a tie for 9th.

[sandy]

Why would Johnny weep at his record being broken. His 63 was the last day and he won the tournament at Oakmont. Beat Nicklaus, Palmer, Trevino, Weiskopf, Schlee. Justin played his fine round on a course that will never be compared to Oakmont (although both had been made easier by heavy rains). And by the way Justin choked like a dog in the final round getting hammered by many never will be hall of famers. Both were behind the leader heading into the fourth round. Miller won Thomas didn't. So Justin has the record, Johnny has the Trophy..

[MtlJeff]

I wish there was a better way to evaluate depth of field between eras. I have to believe the 50th, 200th, and 1000th best golfers right now are easily better than those in eras past. Unless golf is different than every other sport where athletes are getting more and more talented producing deeper and deeper fields.

 

There was a study, I can't find it anymore, was it Pelz? Not sure. But he analyzed data on Hogan's ball striking/proximity stats compared to players in in the 2000s sometime. There were definitely some issues comparing accross timelines given the clubs, ball, and course differences but, from what I recall, it seemed that the top 50 guys or more on the PGA tour (in this 2000ish year )were as good iron ball strikers as Hogan.

 

Wish I could find it.....

 

The pay in golf has risen drastically in relation to average salary in the US over the past 30-40yrs, the number of golfers increased, reaching a peak in 2003 around before regressing to 25m or so which was the same number as 1995. Population density and barriers to entry are the same or easier (the top 100 has more countries represented now.)

 

I'd like to hear a reasonable argument for how depth would get worse given this. Traditionally significant pay increases will attract more talent not less, unless there are major risks in the industry that have popped up (like working with lead or something after just finding out lead was poisonous)

 

You could not know anything about golf and just study the basic numbers about amount of people playing it, countries where its played, and increasing compensation, and most would assume talent is higher now

 

If the salary for being the mayor of your town was increased to 1m dollars, you'd probably end up with a better mayor. This was suggested in the Freakonomics books actually as a way to improve performance in public service actually.

[A.G.Blade]

Johnny laughs at the Four Winds.

Laughs from his mountain

To crush your enemy, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the Miller

[youraway2]

Why would Johnny weep at his record being broken.

 

 

 

Please everyone remember me, I'm special, I'm better, look at my record, please don't forget me, and if you do I'll remind you.

[bermuda]

Does anyone really think a young Nicklaus at 22 years old wouldn't be as long or longer than Koepka, DJ etc

 

If so, I find that hard to fathom

 

He'd be as long. But he'd have a bunch of guys hitting it as far as him and would be away as much as in front. Instead of his main challengers being 20+ yards back every day.

 

He may not have like that much ' )

 

Nicklaus could outdrive anyone any time he wanted. And that's if he didn't want to tee off with a 1-iron.

 

Wow! Could he really?! I wish I had that superpower. I would invoke it on every single hole. It's just so classy that Jack didn't do it all the time even though he could. No wonder so many called him JackClass.

 

Jack Nicklaus’ drive from 1963 would have won the 2016 PGA long-drive contest

[Jasonic]

Does anyone really think a young Nicklaus at 22 years old wouldn't be as long or longer than Koepka, DJ etc

 

If so, I find that hard to fathom

 

He'd be as long. But he'd have a bunch of guys hitting it as far as him and would be away as much as in front. Instead of his main challengers being 20+ yards back every day.

 

He may not have like that much ' )

 

Nicklaus could outdrive anyone any time he wanted. And that's if he didn't want to tee off with a 1-iron.

 

Wow! Could he really?! I wish I had that superpower. I would invoke it on every single hole. It's just so classy that Jack didn't do it all the time even though he could. No wonder so many called him JackClass.

 

Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false. Read a little history you'll find out he was way longer than 99% of the field in his prime. Won a driving contest with a 350 yard drive using balata and persimmon if that's any indication of his power. He was smart enough to know that accuracy was more important.

[farmer]

To pick a year, in 1975, the 50th ranked player was scratching and fighting to keep his exempt status. The 200th ranked guy was folding shirts in a pro shop somewhere. The 1000th ranked had a job and played client golf, or was rich and played as a pastime. The argument can be made that in the Hagen-Sarazen era, the Great Triumvirate era, and through at least the early part of the Nicklaus era, only the supremely talented could make any money playing golf. The talent pool today is much wider because the money is so big that any kid who can play a lick dreams of making the big show.

[bscinstnct]

Does anyone really think a young Nicklaus at 22 years old wouldn't be as long or longer than Koepka, DJ etc

 

If so, I find that hard to fathom

 

He'd be as long. But he'd have a bunch of guys hitting it as far as him and would be away as much as in front. Instead of his main challengers being 20+ yards back every day.

 

He may not have like that much ' )

 

Nicklaus could outdrive anyone any time he wanted. And that's if he didn't want to tee off with a 1-iron.

 

Wow! Could he really?! I wish I had that superpower. I would invoke it on every single hole. It's just so classy that Jack didn't do it all the time even though he could. No wonder so many called him JackClass.

 

Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false. Read a little history you'll find out he was way longer than 99% of the field in his prime. Won a driving contest with a 350 yard drive using balata and persimmon if that's any indication of his power. He was smart enough to know that accuracy was more important.

 

This is the point. Now, he'd be facing a lot of guys just as long.

 

Theres 58 guys who *average* over 295.

 

And 100 over 290.

 

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.html

[Jasonic]

Does anyone really think a young Nicklaus at 22 years old wouldn't be as long or longer than Koepka, DJ etc

 

If so, I find that hard to fathom

 

He'd be as long. But he'd have a bunch of guys hitting it as far as him and would be away as much as in front. Instead of his main challengers being 20+ yards back every day.

 

He may not have like that much ' )

 

Nicklaus could outdrive anyone any time he wanted. And that's if he didn't want to tee off with a 1-iron.

 

Wow! Could he really?! I wish I had that superpower. I would invoke it on every single hole. It's just so classy that Jack didn't do it all the time even though he could. No wonder so many called him JackClass.

 

Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false. Read a little history you'll find out he was way longer than 99% of the field in his prime. Won a driving contest with a 350 yard drive using balata and persimmon if that's any indication of his power. He was smart enough to know that accuracy was more important.

 

This is the point. Now, he'd be facing a lot of guys just as long.

 

Theres 58 guys who *average* over 295.

 

And 100 over 290.

 

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.html

 

You don't think it stands to reason with newer equipment he'd still be in the upper echelon of distance?

[cardoustie]

Good lord

 

Watch Nicklaus swing it on you tube as a young buck

 

 

Look for vids of him in a bucket hat

 

Power to burn for a small muscled legs guy

 

Hogan was in awe of his power

[cardoustie]

[bscinstnct]

 

You don't think it stands to reason with newer equipment he'd still be in the upper echelon of distance?

 

Of course he would.His ss was 120mph. Back then, as you said, he was a complete anomaly.

 

Still be at the top now. But there would be a lot of guys out there with him.

 

That's progress ; )

[3jacker]

His ss would be higher today. The old equipment was short and heavy.

Not many would be out there with him. Only the DJ/Watson/Holmes types.

 

Now this Champ guy is coming along, he's takin it to a whole 'nother level!

 

As for Johnny, he's right about what he said but he should have left it to other

people to say. There are plenty who have stated that case.

[QuickFeet]

One thing you can compare across eras, Johnny Miller shot 63 and walked off with the US Open trophy. Justin Thomas shot 63 and walked off with a tie for 9th.

 

Yep! If you can win the US Open, you are a US Open Champion till the end of time.

 

Don't know JT but I'm guessing he would rather be the US Open Champion versus holding the record for lowest round in a Major. He may never get close again.........

[jonsnow]

 

Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false. Read a little history you'll find out he was way longer than 99% of the field in his prime. Won a driving contest with a 350 yard drive using balata and persimmon if that's any indication of his power. He was smart enough to know that accuracy was more important.

 

This is the point. Now, he'd be facing a lot of guys just as long.

 

Theres 58 guys who *average* over 295.

 

And 100 over 290.

 

http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html

 

You don't think it stands to reason with newer equipment he'd still be in the upper echelon of distance?

 

Well, no. Jack is 77 years old now.

[Jasonic]

 

Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it false. Read a little history you'll find out he was way longer than 99% of the field in his prime. Won a driving contest with a 350 yard drive using balata and persimmon if that's any indication of his power. He was smart enough to know that accuracy was more important.

 

This is the point. Now, he'd be facing a lot of guys just as long.

 

Theres 58 guys who *average* over 295.

 

And 100 over 290.

 

http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html

 

You don't think it stands to reason with newer equipment he'd still be in the upper echelon of distance?

 

Well, no. Jack is 77 years old now.

 

Nice try :)