Single Length Updates (post'em up!)

[Rich Douglas]

They do not require the same lie angles.

 

If the same golfer uses the same-length shafts, how would he/she go about using different lie angles?

[thewral]

Not sure if this has been discussed but anyone hit the F9 Ones yet?

 

Lord knows I do not need another set of irons, but have always been curious about OL. Have read here than F7 to F8 OL was a big jump in "getting it right", wondering if the F9 OL is a similar jump from the F8 or if I should just find a cheap set of F8 to scratch the itch.

[Rich Douglas]

They do not require the same lie angles.

 

That's what I was going to say. And it's not necessarily about metal softness in the higher-lofted Sterlings, but rather how thick the face is. I think Tom used cast 8620 mainly for fitting and feel issues, and because he had success with that 8620/HS 300 steel face combo in the 771's.

 

Gee, I guess stamping them with "Soft Steel" was a mistake, huh?

[SDGolfRookie]

Thanks, Stiff. JumboMax Mediums are en route.

[Rbert831]

Anyone else look at the new F9 single length? I they look horrible to me.

[pappaf2]

They do not require the same lie angles.

 

If the same golfer uses the same-length shafts, how would he/she go about using different lie angles?

 

Coba f8 OL have different lie angles. Idea being the "long" irons have more shaft droop. Not sure if that's do to the more flighted shafts of the f8 or the fact that people swing those clubs faster.

[grantc79]

Thanks, Stiff. JumboMax Mediums are en route.

 

I just had my first range session with jumbomax smalls and I like them. I could probably go to medium but I think small works well for me for now

 

Just got my Wishon STerling set back built with C Taper Lites and Jumbomax Smalls.

 

So far like them a lot better than my old F8's.

 

That said the 4 iron is crazy clicky sounding. I'm not normally picky about that but its noticeable even for me.

[ry1808]

Trigger has been pulled on the Edel SLS-01 irons. Hopefully should be here in a week or two.

 

My first step (as with any new set of irons) will be to spend an hour or so on the simulator getting all of my gappings right. It can be a tedious job but worth it in the end. Found my previous set of Mizunos where off (not from the manufacturer, just the way they where) and instead of having 4 degrees between my 6 7 and 8 iron I ended up with 4.5 then 3.5. Pulled that 7 iron right back into line. It's a fun little experiment.

[Noke]

They do not require the same lie angles.

 

That's what I was going to say. And it's not necessarily about metal softness in the higher-lofted Sterlings, but rather how thick the face is. I think Tom used cast 8620 mainly for fitting and feel issues, and because he had success with that 8620/HS 300 steel face combo in the 771's.

 

Gee, I guess stamping them with "Soft Steel" was a mistake, huh?

 

No. It was a smart marketing move and necessary for his irons to be ‘soft steel’ to fit a wide population of golfers.

[Noke]

They do not require the same lie angles.

 

If the same golfer uses the same-length shafts, how would he/she go about using different lie angles?

 

Because Cobra has found through extensive research that people do not swing their 5 irons and gap wedges the same, even if they think they they do. F8 and F9 OL vary lie angles slightly to compensate for that trend.

 

Tom Wishon is a legend, and I’ve been playing his clubs forever. Tom Olsavsky and the Cobra team are no slouches, either. I personally like having different approaches to the single length concept- more products to try! Fun!

[bulls9999]

Just curious..... Bryson DeChambeaux won again last night (Dubai, January 2019) with Cobra Single Length irons. But he's the only pro that uses them (I think). I'm sure Cobra loves his success in being able to translate that into sales, but I don't think their sales will amount t much until other PGA tour pro's follow suite? What will it take for that to happen? Will it have to wait until enough junior adopters using single length irons make it through college and into the PGA tour that you'll see another such player, or will any current player ever 'convert over'? ….which will happen first? I hope Bryson is getting sufficient sponsor $$ from Cobra, he deserves it.

[games]

Just curious..... Bryson DeChambeaux won again last night (Dubai, January 2019) with Cobra Single Length irons. But he's the only pro that uses them (I think). I'm sure Cobra loves his success in being able to translate that into sales, but I don't think their sales will amount t much until other PGA tour pro's follow suit? What will it take for that to happen? Will it have to wait until enough junior adopters using single length irons make it through college and into the PGA tour that you'll see another such player, or will any current player ever 'convert over'? ….which will happen first? I hope Bryson is getting sufficient sponsor $$ from Cobra, he deserves it.

 

Golf is a culture filled with "traditional" thinking, right or wrong. Guys who reach the tour probably aren't going to switch to one-length / single axis, unless they simply lose their swing. At which point, their confidence is shot, and no technique in the world is going to help. I think it will be similar to the "Tiger effect" of athletes choosing golf after watching Tiger as kids.

 

BDC is unique in that he does not allow "tradition" dictate how he swings a club:

1. He chose to swing the way he does;

2. He can justify the choice;

3. It would appear that he can fix his "system" when the swing goes astray;

 

He does miss cuts, but he usually bounces back. So, I think he knows how to "fix" his system when it breaks. Unique athlete...

[DavePelz4]

Just curious..... Bryson DeChambeaux won again last night (Dubai, January 2019) with Cobra Single Length irons. But he's the only pro that uses them (I think). I'm sure Cobra loves his success in being able to translate that into sales, but I don't think their sales will amount t much until other PGA tour pro's follow suite? What will it take for that to happen? Will it have to wait until enough junior adopters using single length irons make it through college and into the PGA tour that you'll see another such player, or will any current player ever 'convert over'? ….which will happen first? I hope Bryson is getting sufficient sponsor $$ from Cobra, he deserves it.

 

Not sure if you followed the SL promo that Cobra ran last fall. I believe they sold something like 20,000 sets. Not sure that pros will move the needle anywhere as much as us AMs with an inconsistent swing that like the concept behind the SL irons.

[Rich Douglas]

Just curious..... Bryson DeChambeaux won again last night (Dubai, January 2019) with Cobra Single Length irons. But he's the only pro that uses them (I think). I'm sure Cobra loves his success in being able to translate that into sales, but I don't think their sales will amount t much until other PGA tour pro's follow suite? What will it take for that to happen? Will it have to wait until enough junior adopters using single length irons make it through college and into the PGA tour that you'll see another such player, or will any current player ever 'convert over'? ….which will happen first? I hope Bryson is getting sufficient sponsor $$ from Cobra, he deserves it.

 

Don't expect a professional golfer to make that switch. A man or woman who's built an entire career on playing this game isn't going to deconstruct it just to make the switch. The difference between the best players and the ones fighting to hold onto their cards is razor-thin. These players are winning and losing with tiny differences, not huge game-changers.

 

The only possibility I see is through the example BDC has give us: grow up with them, or (like him) make the change before you have millions of dollars and your entire career on the line.

 

I do believe, however, that OEMs could lead the way for amateur golfers. It's a chicken-and-egg thing, of course, and Cobra dodged that dilemma by signing the one guy on Tour who does it. Unfortunately, Cobra's performance hasn't caused their competition to want to get a piece of the (potential) pie.

 

We've seen professionals have their games completely derailed by something as simple as a ball switch. They're not going to do something as radical as this.

[Rich Douglas]

Guys who reach the tour probably aren't going to switch to one-length / single axis, unless they simply lose their swing.

 

This are unrelated concepts. Yes, BCD uses a single-plane swing and yes, he uses single-length irons. But they're not necessarily related. You can do/use one without the other. His use of a steep swing angle and over-sized grips are also choices unrelated.

 

Professionals tweak their swings and games. They don't normally make radical changes like swing planes, and even minor changes in equipment can have major implications. (Bubba's ball!)

 

The last time we saw a swing change trend hit professionals was Stack-and-Tilt. Those guys disappeared.

[Playthru]

Finally,after having my F8s for almost two weeks and not hitting them outside because of lousy weather.I took my five iron out to give it a go to see if I could get It airborne.

I was impressed as the ball flight was high enough and the direction was spot on.

It was chilly and my distance was 180yds and farther on some shots I’m also going to be 72 in a couple of months.I can’t wait to try them on a golf course if they ever open up being closed because of bad weather.I have the nippon Pro 105 shafts in the f8 ol irons.

[Man_O_War]

wonder why DeChambeau plays his woods at different lengths.. actually longer than standard (45.75 driver) ..would be fun watching him hit driver at 37.5" like the rest of the set

[games]

Guys who reach the tour probably aren't going to switch to one-length / single axis, unless they simply lose their swing.

 

This are unrelated concepts.

 

Glad you agree.

[Rich Douglas]

 

 

Glad you agree.

 

I don't, which should be obvious from my post.

 

Name someone who "lost his swing" and made a radical change-over to something like BDC is doing. I can't seem to recall any. Faldo is the closest, but he decided to change his swing because he felt he'd gotten as good as he could with his original swing. But the changes implemented with David Ledbetter weren't really radical.

 

But I don't want to distract with a strawman. I really am curious who you might have in mind.

[Rich Douglas]

wonder why DeChambeau plays his woods at different lengths.. actually longer than standard (45.75 driver) ..would be fun watching him hit driver at 37.5" like the rest of the set

 

Tom Wishon talked about this. It's really hard to get woods at the same length playing with proper gapping. Also, there is a significant drop-off in distance with the shorter shaft on a driver. Pros can handle the difference, although most amateurs would be better off with a driver at 43.5 to 44 inches.

[DavePelz4]

Glad you agree.

 

I don't, which should be obvious from my post.

 

Name someone who "lost his swing" and made a radical change-over to something like BDC is doing. I can't seem to recall any. Faldo is the closest, but he decided to change his swing because he felt he'd gotten as good as he could with his original swing. But the changes implemented with David Ledbetter weren't really radical.

 

But I don't want to distract with a strawman. I really am curious who you might have in mind.

 

Sandy Lyle, who won a Masters, lost it and came back playing Natural Golf which ironically, is also a single plane approach.

[Spederman]

So I just invested in a full bag of cobra forged tec black one length. 3 hybrid to 60 deg wedge. Took them out for the first time today. Never even hit the range. Yikes, what a nightmare round. I'm a 10 handicap normally and had one of the worst rounds ever. I couldn't hit the 56 or 60 at all, insanely hard with the extra length. And didn't find it any easier to hit the 4-6 vs my srixon z765.

 

How long did it take y'all to get used to the one length? Very discouraging today and thinking this was a very expensive experiment. I realize I need to hit the range but just from reading on this thread, people playing the best rounds of their lives, I was disappointed to shoot one of the worst rounds for me.

[johnnythunders]

I’m 67 and can’t practice anymore, I need more distance so the longer and lighter clubs give me more distance. I built a set of Wishon but didn’t care for them, tried F7 and liked them, moved to f-max with Recoil smacwrap and will have seriou look at f9 speedback.

 

When to same length on all of my hybrids and same length on fairwaywoods, off course they are longer than the 7iron. My driver is 46.

 

 

[Aucaveman]

So I just invested in a full bag of cobra forged tec black one length. 3 hybrid to 60 deg wedge. Took them out for the first time today. Never even hit the range. Yikes, what a nightmare round. I'm a 10 handicap normally and had one of the worst rounds ever. I couldn't hit the 56 or 60 at all, insanely hard with the extra length. And didn't find it any easier to hit the 4-6 vs my srixon z765.

 

How long did it take y'all to get used to the one length? Very discouraging today and thinking this was a very expensive experiment. I realize I need to hit the range but just from reading on this thread, people playing the best rounds of their lives, I was disappointed to shoot one of the worst rounds for me.

 

Honestly, it just sounds like a mental issue to me. Since you're a 10 hc, obviously you can play some. I fluctuate between a 3 and 7. I never over thought it. Now I did have trouble with the 5 and 6 iron, but now its fine. I actually had 765s also. I gave them to my son, but I took them out at Thanksgiving and shot 78. I also have some 99 hogan apex blades. Used them yesterday, and shot 79 and my putting was horrible. Used my cobra black ftol today, shot 78 and putting was great. I hate to say it, but I never really had an adjustment period. Just put good swings on them and you'll be fine.

 

[games]

Glad you agree.

 

I don't, which should be obvious from my post.

 

Name someone who "lost his swing" and made a radical change-over to something like BDC is doing. I can't seem to recall any. Faldo is the closest, but he decided to change his swing because he felt he'd gotten as good as he could with his original swing. But the changes implemented with David Ledbetter weren't really radical.

 

But I don't want to distract with a strawman. I really am curious who you might have in mind.

 

Sandy Lyle, who won a Masters, lost it and came back playing Natural Golf which ironically, is also a single plane approach.

 

I believe Jerry Foltz also tried NG.

[games]

Glad you agree.

 

I don't, which should be obvious from my post.

 

Name someone who "lost his swing" and made a radical change-over to something like BDC is doing. I can't seem to recall any. Faldo is the closest, but he decided to change his swing because he felt he'd gotten as good as he could with his original swing. But the changes implemented with David Ledbetter weren't really radical.

 

But I don't want to distract with a strawman. I really am curious who you might have in mind.

 

I completely understand that single axis and single length clubs are mutually exclusive concepts.

In fact, I tried a "flavor" of single axis while playing variable length clubs, and I just got done trying single length clubs with a conventional swing.

I think both have merit. And, I think by combining the two, BDC created a system for himself that he understands, and that makes it possible for him to own his swing.

 

DavePelz4 answered your question with Sandy Lyle. I added Jerry Foltz. Not that it proves anything, since I'm not that interested in where you want to take the conversation anyway...

[Outpost31]

Spederman, one thing that helped me was to remember to hit everything like a 7iron. My wedges are the best part of my game as long as I remember, "Hit it like a 7iron" and trust the club to deliver the distance. Good luck and Congrats on your set up. Like Aucaveman says, it may be a mental thing that you can work out at the range.

[rjr25]

So I just invested in a full bag of cobra forged tec black one length. 3 hybrid to 60 deg wedge. Took them out for the first time today. Never even hit the range. Yikes, what a nightmare round. I'm a 10 handicap normally and had one of the worst rounds ever. I couldn't hit the 56 or 60 at all, insanely hard with the extra length. And didn't find it any easier to hit the 4-6 vs my srixon z765.

 

How long did it take y'all to get used to the one length? Very discouraging today and thinking this was a very expensive experiment. I realize I need to hit the range but just from reading on this thread, people playing the best rounds of their lives, I was disappointed to shoot one of the worst rounds for me.

 

Its probably going to take more than a round. Certainly not an instant turnaround. For me the biggest hurdle was the mental aspect of swinging all the irons the same. Found myself wanting to move the ball back and forth, stand closer and further, and swing differently for each club. Took most of the season to get myself to some standard ball positioning and swinging. And even now I still wouldn't say I have it. I struggle with the short irons and honestly put a few VL back in the bottom of the bag. I plan to really give it a better try this coming year, but I still see traditional length wedges staying in my bag, especially since I am rarely taking full swings with them. If its an experiment you want to try you are going to need to give it some time, certainly more than just range sessions and the occasional round.

[bulls9999]

'Stack-and-Tilt', wow, almost forgot about that....I remember all the info mercials of players/supporters promoting that on G.C. Haven't heard a word about that in years....since you brought it up, lol.

 

Guys who reach the tour probably aren't going to switch to one-length / single axis, unless they simply lose their swing.

 

This are unrelated concepts. Yes, BCD uses a single-plane swing and yes, he uses single-length irons. But they're not necessarily related. You can do/use one without the other. His use of a steep swing angle and over-sized grips are also choices unrelated.

 

Professionals tweak their swings and games. They don't normally make radical changes like swing planes, and even minor changes in equipment can have major implications. (Bubba's ball!)

 

The last time we saw a swing change trend hit professionals was Stack-and-Tilt. Those guys disappeared.

[DavePelz4]

So I just invested in a full bag of cobra forged tec black one length. 3 hybrid to 60 deg wedge. Took them out for the first time today. Never even hit the range. Yikes, what a nightmare round. I'm a 10 handicap normally and had one of the worst rounds ever. I couldn't hit the 56 or 60 at all, insanely hard with the extra length. And didn't find it any easier to hit the 4-6 vs my srixon z765.

 

How long did it take y'all to get used to the one length? Very discouraging today and thinking this was a very expensive experiment. I realize I need to hit the range but just from reading on this thread, people playing the best rounds of their lives, I was disappointed to shoot one of the worst rounds for me.

 

I'm about 10 rounds into the SL's. The two places where it was initially difficult was on the top and bottom of the bag. The hybrids (3 & 4) just seemed so short and the wedges just seemed too long. For the first round I came up short on every wedge because it just seemed like the ball was going to go too far. Once you get a bit of run rate with them it will all fall into place but you do have to trust them and you know guys aren't the most trusting lot.