Crossfield reviews TM M4 Driver

[paztormike]

What do you call it when you bag one OEM for "false and misleading advertising" but give another OEM a free pass when they do the same?

 

Is that still called hypocrisy or have we changed the meaning of that now?

If you are talking about Crossfield...I'm just not sure that I see him giving Titleist a "Free pass." I have not heard him say that any of their equipment is better than anyone else since he started using Titleist. He even made it clear that he is using Titleist because they are sponsoring him to do that. He loves that new putter, but never says it's measurably better than anything else. In his videos for Titleist hybrids and wedges, he has been very critical and outspoken of how little of a difference the grind on a wedge or the shaft setting on a hybrid changes their performance.

 

I also am not sure that he himself says anything about other companies using "false and misleading advertising." He certainly rolls his eyes at the marketing claims and often says: "I don't know that I can measure any difference" on the tech that companies put into their clubs including: Twistface, Jailbreak, different grooves, grinds, aerodynamic clubheads, etc.

 

What's funny to me is that if there is anything that he is overly critical of it's WRX'ers. Almost every review in the past few months that he has done, he takes a moment to make fun of the online people who haggle about 200-300 revs of spin and talk about 'turf interaction' and 'dispersion' etc.

 

Michael Newton is much better to watch than Shiels or Crossfield.

 

If I want to see a review on a club I can't hit locally, I go to (in order)

 

1. Fried Eggs

2. Michael Newton

3. browse wrx

4. browse other golf website

5. Crossfield

6. random youtube videos (including Shiels)

I like what Michael Newton is doing too.

 

You might also enjoy teeuplo

 

His stuff is pretty balanced and informative.

[North Butte]

Well he's hardly going to make fun of the people who watch his 10,000th different club review, none of which he finds to be demonstrably better than the other 9,999.

[tjl48]

12 months later he forgets that and signs for Titleist ������

 

Because, he said, they could live with an arrangement where he continued to give independent reviews and also game other manufacturer clubs if he wished. Seems to have worked out that way.

 

Anyway, isn't this about the M4 review? He clearly liked the sound. I may demo for kicks.

 

Ok Titleist can say carry on reviewing othet stuff but he has a contract so by definition is no longer independent.

 

Doesn't mean I don't like his reviews just hypocritical if you listen to his words in the TM non test video he produced.

 

Twisty-mac-two-face!

 

If any of these guys were TRULY independent, wouldn't that mean that they would be footing the bill for test clubs on their own? I mean, if an OEM is sending you stuff for free and another isn't, couldn't that have some sort of influence? I would still consider MC independent until Titleist tells him they want him to be exclusive to them and I don't see that happening. If Shiels is being paid by and receiving free gear from UA does that mean he is not independent?

 

Sheils switched to Nike once they stopped making equipment. And either way that is not comparable. Neither Under Armour then, or Nike now, make equipment. For reviewing clubs he is independent,

[gambit]

Shiels won't be getting an equipment contract anytime soon, I wouldn't think. His reviews, especially with woods, shows him hitting it all over the place for the most part. Then he stunk it up at the pro-am he played in. Can you imagine an OEM letting him, with all his subscribers, be a recognizable face for their brand?

 

As far as advertising goes, of course there are going to be some ridiculous claims that most golfers will never achieve. That's how advertising works. Corona's advertisements suggest that drinking their beers will make you feel like life's a beach. Don't get me started on the copper pan. More false claims than any golf commercial. Don't ask me how I know.

[tjl48]

I am sure Shiels has been offered equipment contracts before. He is a lot more desirable to be a brand ambassador than Crossfield. He has more subs and his channel is growing at a much faster rate. And in my opinion his personality is appealing to a much broader audience than Crossfield. He has stated before that the reason he was with UA and now Nike is because they don't make clubs.

 

I think most companies care more about the number of eyes than they do the quality of golf to a point.

[AZstu324]

Some have made mention of Crossfield's signing with Titleist and being a sellout and that's why TM wouldn't send him the gear. Personally I don't see how him signing a deal with Titleist has made him a sellout at all. Think of his move on an individual/personal level. He's got a family to support. By profession, he's a golf coach, and a youtube vlogger/reviewer. Golf's definitely not cheap and while he's got a decent following and seems to be a reputable coach, he's not likely bringing in the kind of money where "unlimited free personal equipment and all accompanying services (fitting, factory touring, instruction, etc)" means nothing to him as well as whatever additional financial advantages the contract may have included to help him improve his family's lifestyle.. you can't fault the man for that. In addition, he's had a contractual history with Titleist as a former pro so this relationship isn't just something completely uncharted. When he first announced his deal with Titleist, he was very clear about a major part of the contract being that he would continue to review equipment from all other manufacturers and be allowed to have an individual opinion about them. He also never compares other clubs to his Titleist when reviewing so it's clear that there's no Titleist promoting agenda in the reviews. Even in one of his recent videos showing the fitting of a Titleist Hybrid at the Titleist HQ in Carlsbad. He was certain that nothing would surpass his older model Ping (rinkydink) and was skeptical during most of the video. He released a similar video showing slight skepticism to the vast variations of grinds in the Vokey's. I think that Titleist just enjoyed the challenge of fitting him and trying to prove him wrong.. which they mostly did.. and his reaction was genuine.. not rehearsed.

 

I had a chance to try out the TM M3/4 in a fitting format and to be honest I was rather underwhelmed. Like Crossfield, I have a rather consistent driver swing/strike. My typical swing is 109 - 111 mph, 2400-2600 rpm, 5 yd off target fade and draw (basically straight), 11* launch, 265 - 275 yd carry (not bragging, I just know my swing) If there was something earth shattering about the club, my swing would have uncovered it. I was getting better yardage and figures with my 4 year old Nike Covert 2.0 that I paid $30 for than the $500+ TM's. That's the God's honest truth on the matter. I'm just not part of the market that TM is after and neither is Crossfield and probably 25% of the golfing world.. but that leaves the other 75% to be enamored by what TM is selling and that's a pretty good capitalization.

 

Not sure if any of you have noticed.. But TM has released quite a few commercials showing their pros touting the equipment as "magic".. and the best they've ever experienced "unbelievable" yada yada.. Many of the R&D videos show them admitting to all of their swing flaws and how the magical TM drivers have helped correct their problems.. and constantly plugging the gear in interviews, etc.. We're talking about some of the best and most consistent ball strikers on the planet who have worldly different sets of swing numbers from the rest of us average Joes. A Crossfield M4 review was exactly what TM didn't want people to see and as little control as they have over what Crossfield can get his hands on as a consumer.. they just controlled what they could as a company by not sending him the equipment to invite the inevitable results.. "Average" "pretty good" "Just as good but not better than others" "not a magic wand".. and honest. Ultimately TM is going for the Superman Effect.. When we were kids, we all thought that wearing a red cape and red underwear over blue sweatpants would give us superpowers.. I think I even jumped off of a 10 foot deck thinking I would fly.. or at least not get hurt if i hit the ground. In ways I'm sure we all felt as if we were invincible or convinced that we might really have the power of flight which is part of the magic of being a child.. It just didn't occur to us as children that it wasn't the cape.. so much as the man wearing the cape that had the superpowers. TM is simply trying to market that using their equipment will equalize us mere mortals to those superheros that we see on TV smashing the ball 300+ yds.. and that they have weaknesses just like we do.. It's really just a grownup version of that childhood magic.. and it can work and TM knows it.

[North Butte]

What exactly would Mark Crossfield be "selling out" anyway? This isn't the Stones letting their songs be used on fast food commercials or a politician taking the big bucks to lobby his old colleagues in the Senate. It's a guy posted videos to YouTube and saying LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME NOT THAT OTHER GUY and being lucky enough that people are actually looking.

 

Get a deal from Titleist or don't. Get free equipment from Taylormade or don't. Praise or rag on anyone as he sees fit, or alternate between praising and ragging the same outfit. Post puerile stunt videos complaining about how you get no respect. It's all good but there's nothing about it sell-out-able is there?

 

Seems to me he has mentioned Taylormade more often since they supposedly treated him badly than he did last year or the year before. And I haven't heard of any reason to believe he is mentioning Titleist more than he ever did. If he has "sold out" then it's not clear what, exactly, he was selling or who, precisely, was the buyer.

[Nixhex524]

12 months later he forgets that and signs for Titleist ������

 

Because, he said, they could live with an arrangement where he continued to give independent reviews and also game other manufacturer clubs if he wished. Seems to have worked out that way.

 

Anyway, isn't this about the M4 review? He clearly liked the sound. I may demo for kicks.

 

Ok Titleist can say carry on reviewing othet stuff but he has a contract so by definition is no longer independent.

 

Doesn't mean I don't like his reviews just hypocritical if you listen to his words in the TM non test video he produced.

 

Twisty-mac-two-face!

 

If any of these guys were TRULY independent, wouldn't that mean that they would be footing the bill for test clubs on their own? I mean, if an OEM is sending you stuff for free and another isn't, couldn't that have some sort of influence? I would still consider MC independent until Titleist tells him they want him to be exclusive to them and I don't see that happening. If Shiels is being paid by and receiving free gear from UA does that mean he is not independent?

 

Sheils switched to Nike once they stopped making equipment. And either way that is not comparable. Neither Under Armour then, or Nike now, make equipment. For reviewing clubs he is independent,

 

So an apparel contract is different then clubs.... I see. I might buy that if Shiels hadn't done a UA shoe review back in the day stating he would have nothing bad to say about them since he was a UA guy. If Crossfield says that about ANYTHING Titleist, you can guarantee the backlash here will be 100 pages long. Clubs or not, there's a serious lack of consistency when these topics come up....

[Nixhex524]

I am sure Shiels has been offered equipment contracts before. He is a lot more desirable to be a brand ambassador than Crossfield. He has more subs and his channel is growing at a much faster rate. And in my opinion his personality is appealing to a much broader audience than Crossfield. He has stated before that the reason he was with UA and now Nike is because they don't make clubs.

 

I think most companies care more about the number of eyes than they do the quality of golf to a point.

 

Even if he said that, how many club companies are also making apparel? I don't dislike Rick, but I think he thinks he is smarter than he is sometimes.

[tjl48]

Completely different when a big point of your channel is reviewing clubs. I don't understand what is difficult to understand about that. Weather you think it affects Crossfields ability to remain impartial or not is not really important. Being paid by a golf company that makes equipment while reviewing equipment is way different than being paid by a golf apparel company while reviewing golf equipment.

[tjl48]

I am sure Shiels has been offered equipment contracts before. He is a lot more desirable to be a brand ambassador than Crossfield. He has more subs and his channel is growing at a much faster rate. And in my opinion his personality is appealing to a much broader audience than Crossfield. He has stated before that the reason he was with UA and now Nike is because they don't make clubs.

 

I think most companies care more about the number of eyes than they do the quality of golf to a point.

 

Even if he said that, how many club companies are also making apparel? I don't dislike Rick, but I think he thinks he is smarter than he is sometimes.

 

I don't get what you are getting at with this post. So what if they make apparel. He's not wearing it. He isn't reviewing it. The fact that other companies make apparel is completely irrelevant.

[dunn]

The whole point really is that the clubs are all more similar than different.....what separates em is personal preference.....that can't be done watching a video, most of us who have played alot of gear pretty much already know what to expect gaming a new set......i like buying and trying stuff even though it's futile.....

[MarkFromTheUK]

The answer is simple. Stop reviewing clubs (if you think they are all the same) and simply review shafts, and report back on the playing characteristics of each.

 

Shiels is funny. Especially when he juices his LM and hits 350y drives, then claims it to be genuine. That’s the sort of guy you want to be taking advice from.

[Nixhex524]

I am sure Shiels has been offered equipment contracts before. He is a lot more desirable to be a brand ambassador than Crossfield. He has more subs and his channel is growing at a much faster rate. And in my opinion his personality is appealing to a much broader audience than Crossfield. He has stated before that the reason he was with UA and now Nike is because they don't make clubs.

 

I think most companies care more about the number of eyes than they do the quality of golf to a point.

 

Even if he said that, how many club companies are also making apparel? I don't dislike Rick, but I think he thinks he is smarter than he is sometimes.

 

I don't get what you are getting at with this post. So what if they make apparel. He's not wearing it. He isn't reviewing it. The fact that other companies make apparel is completely irrelevant.

 

Other club companies DON'T make apparel. That was the point. He could literally wear anything and not be tied to anyone, yet he's somehow in NIKE clothing head to toe in every single video he does.. interesting....

 

BUT when he was wearing UA, yes, he did an "apparel" review in which he stated he would not have anything negative to say... I don't expect him to, but call it like it is all I am saying. If Mark is not "independent" then there are plenty other out there that are not either, just stop pretending like it is somehow different. There are many ways to be bought and paid for. I don't have an issue with any of these guys doing it, the only hypocrisy I see is people calling out one guy while defending another. Meanwhile, MC is still doing unbiased reviews and people are still trying to make it something it isn't. It's comical.

[tjl48]

Your trolling, right? Like I said before, weather you believe his deal affects his ability to perform unbiased reviews is one thing. I don't care one way or the other. But these are pretty different circumstances between the 2. Nike does not make clubs. It doesn't matter what Rick says about any club because that wouldn't affect the clubs Nike doesn't make. Complete opposite for MC. How MC reviews clubs could have a direct impact on the selling of Titleist clubs, with whom he is affiliated with. I am not saying he cares or is adjusting his reviews. But if he were to a company he works for could be directly affected. Not the case with Shiels. There is a significant difference between the 2 circumstances. It is comical you don't see that.

 

As I said I don't really care. Don't really like either of there reviews. They are pointless.

[Sean2]

I don't know why this is such a big deal. I have never taken much stock in reviews, after all you have to hit it for yourself to determine whether it's the right club for you. Making a purchase based on a review is a bit short sited in my opinion.

 

And, it's not like the reviewer is making us aware of a club we have never heard of. I am pretty sure most golfers are aware of the new TM drivers.

[Nixhex524]

Your trolling, right? Like I said before, weather you believe his deal affects his ability to perform unbiased reviews is one thing. I don't care one way or the other. But these are pretty different circumstances between the 2. Nike does not make clubs. It doesn't matter what Rick says about any club because that wouldn't affect the clubs Nike doesn't make. Complete opposite for MC. How MC reviews clubs could have a direct impact on the selling of Titleist clubs, with whom he is affiliated with. I am not saying he cares or is adjusting his reviews. But if he were to a company he works for could be directly affected. Not the case with Shiels. There is a significant difference between the 2 circumstances. It is comical you don't see that.

 

As I said I don't really care. Don't really like either of there reviews. They are pointless.

 

Not trolling at all.... either you're independent or you're not and I don't really think any of them are footing all the bills on their own for what they play, review, or wear, but that's just me I guess.... Any of them that have been on the take should be open to the same criticism, not just one guy cause I don't like him. Thanks for the discussion.

[anth]

Still waiting for the Crossfield video where he takes Titleist to task for their misleading golf ball ads? Coming anytime soon?

[jetmech879]

 

Here is his comparison review between his 917D2 and the M4.

[Londoner]

Yet another review with no conclusions.

Thats the trouble, all drivers maxed out, no difference.

Shafts, makes no difference.

Irons, all to do with him manipulating path and dynamic loft, no real difference.

Balls, all same distance, spin mainly dependent on strike. All down to feel/sound.

 

While I dont fundamentaly disagree with the above I have to ask.

 

If its all personal preference, why test and compare at all?

[Nixhex524]

Yet another review with no conclusions.

Thats the trouble, all drivers maxed out, no difference.

Shafts, makes no difference.

Irons, all to do with him manipulating path and dynamic loft, no real difference.

Balls, all same distance, spin mainly dependent on strike. All down to feel/sound.

 

While I dont fundamentaly disagree with the above I have to ask.

 

If its all personal preference, why test and compare at all?

 

I think thats the point and conclusion.... regardless of claims, they're all capable of getting you in a position to make a good score, just comes down to the player. The M4 was longer but not enough to really make a difference in his case.

[Derek666]

Problem is tomorrow the Titleist will be longer and it will also make no difference, there's not a bad club nowadays but if you expect one to outperform another its mostly down to your own opinion.

[North Butte]

Yet another review with no conclusions.

Thats the trouble, all drivers maxed out, no difference.

Shafts, makes no difference.

Irons, all to do with him manipulating path and dynamic loft, no real difference.

Balls, all same distance, spin mainly dependent on strike. All down to feel/sound.

 

While I dont fundamentaly disagree with the above I have to ask.

 

If its all personal preference, why test and compare at all?

 

I agree. There are very small overall differences in performance among clubs and balls. It is virtually all down to feel and preference.

 

So why does anyone want to see him say that about a different club almost every day, year in and year out? What’s the appeal of seeing the 50th driver review?

[jetmech879]

It is a game of misses. For me I'm finally realizing that it more about confidence than distance. I seem to hit all drivers about the same distance. But what really matters is when I miss the middle. The M4, for me, has been awesome on misses. I loose very little compared to my epic SZ when I miss the middle. Especially when I miss low on the face. Hammer ballz!!! ?

[Middler]

Yet another review with no conclusions.

Thats the trouble, all drivers maxed out, no difference.

Shafts, makes no difference.

Irons, all to do with him manipulating path and dynamic loft, no real difference.

Balls, all same distance, spin mainly dependent on strike. All down to feel/sound.

 

While I dont fundamentaly disagree with the above I have to ask.

 

If its all personal preference, why test and compare at all?

 

I agree. There are very small overall differences in performance among clubs and balls. It is virtually all down to feel and preference.

 

So why does anyone want to see him say that about a different club almost every day, year in and year out? What’s the appeal of seeing the 50th driver review?

And Crossfield has said that more plainly than any other golf YouTuber I know if. That’s what #262 was/is about...

[Lancj1]

His head to head of M4 v Titleist driver is quite possibly the most sensible and informative video I have seen, and says so much about golf tech at so many levels. Watch it, then watch it again.

 

In the past MC wasn't my favorite golf coach/youtube personality, he's grown on me enormously though. High quality thought provoking content, seems to cut through the bull.

 

I loved him telling the Vokey guy "theres no difference in any of these" instead of fawning over grind x and grind y - like he was supposed to, no doubt.

[jeggolfer68]

Crossfield seems to hit the club face center almost every strike. How is that testing the "new technology" of the m4? I've read low heel and high toe is where the the tech comes into play. I am a huge fan of Crossfield but I think he blew it on this review.

[joesgonegolfing]

I really enjoy MC's Vlogs when they are playing golf. It cracks me up. I do watch the reviews he, Shiels, Finch and others do....but it is like reading this forum in that it costs me money because I try new clubs even though I know there is very little difference.

 

What I stopped watching was anyone's swing lessons or how to videos and my handicap went back down to scratch. Nothing will mess you up more than swing advice not directed at you, for you , and after the study of your swing. If you are in Maryland, go see Gary Mankulish. He was a hell of player and better teacher. He is at GolfTec in Ellicott City.

 

Sorry for the off thread rambling.....of and I love Chamblee's book The Anatomy of Greatness

[gdb99]

Crossfield seems to hit the club face center almost every strike. How is that testing the "new technology" of the m4? I've read low heel and high toe is where the the tech comes into play. I am a huge fan of Crossfield but I think he blew it on this review.

 

Would it be better to work on your swing and strike patterns or buy a new driver?

That’s part of his point.....

[linkerpan]

Would he dare to compare the pro V vs competition and say that all balls are alike€?