My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[Golf4lifer]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > > > >

> > > > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > > > >

> > > > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > > > >

> > > > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > > > >

> > > > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > > > >

> > > > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > > > >

> > > > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > > > >

> > > > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > > > >

> > > > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > > > >

> > > > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > > > >

> > > > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > > > >

> > > > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > Why can’t he use his score? The score is a determining factor in getting your handicap and it doesn’t know or care what type of iron was used. If blades are so unforgiving then the first thing that should be effected is his score.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > [sigh]

> > >

> > > Reading is fundamental.

> > >

> > > His score, in and of itself, does NOT answer the "Which is better, blades or CB" "question".

> >

> > Reading comprehension is fundamental!!!

> >

> > Isn’t the goal to get the best possible score and see which iron gives him that possibility? Again since score effects ones handicap if I score better with a cb/gi club then that is better for my game correct? If I score the same or better with a blade as a cb/gi then any of these club are good for my game and I can choose to play any of them. It’s just that simple.

> >

> > My last round I shot a 77 and hit 4 greens. Which irons did I use?

> >

> >

>

> 

>

 

Please “educate” me on how to choose what irons to play. Especially since playing the iron type that allows me to score best is incorrect.

[dpb5031]

> @Golf4lifer said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > >

> > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > >

> > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > >

> > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > >

> > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > >

> > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> >

> > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> >

> > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> >

> > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> >

> > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> >

> > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> >

> > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> >

> > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> >

> > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> >

> >

>

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > >

> > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > >

> > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > >

> > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > >

> > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > >

> > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> >

> > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> >

> > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> >

> > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> >

> > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> >

> > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> >

> > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> >

> > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> >

> > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> >

> >

> Why can’t he use his score? The score is a determining factor in getting your handicap and it doesn’t know or care what type of iron was used. If blades are so unforgiving then the first thing that should be effected is his score.

>

>

Well, I think scoring/HC has got to be the true litmus test. After all, the anti-blade crowd has been telling the blade-loving mid and high caps that they're deluding themselves by playing blades, and that they'd be better off with GI/CBs. Scoring is the end game for anyone playing for cash, title, or pride, so what else matters relative to that side of the argument. The blade lovers already prefer the looks and feel of their chosen MBs, right?

 

Now, that's not to say that additional color commentary wouldn't be of any value, entertainment or otherwise...lol!

[nsxguy]

> @Golf4lifer said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > Why can’t he use his score? The score is a determining factor in getting your handicap and it doesn’t know or care what type of iron was used. If blades are so unforgiving then the first thing that should be effected is his score.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > [sigh]

> > > >

> > > > Reading is fundamental.

> > > >

> > > > His score, in and of itself, does NOT answer the "Which is better, blades or CB" "question".

> > >

> > > Reading comprehension is fundamental!!!

> > >

> > > Isn’t the goal to get the best possible score and see which iron gives him that possibility? Again since score effects ones handicap if I score better with a cb/gi club then that is better for my game correct? If I score the same or better with a blade as a cb/gi then any of these club are good for my game and I can choose to play any of them. It’s just that simple.

> > >

> > > My last round I shot a 77 and hit 4 greens. Which irons did I use?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > 

> >

>

> Please “educate” me on how to choose what irons to play. Especially since playing the iron type that allows me to score best is incorrect.

 

You choose however you want, just like I and everyone else does.

 

After I explained my thinking about dbp's interesting experiment, which was NOT about how one would go about choosing one's irons (I've made my point(s) on that before), YOU asked why his socre "didn't count"..

 

I already explained that his score, in and of itself, **does NOT answer the "Which is better, blades or CB" "question"**.

 

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

[Golf4lifer]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > Why can’t he use his score? The score is a determining factor in getting your handicap and it doesn’t know or care what type of iron was used. If blades are so unforgiving then the first thing that should be effected is his score.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > [sigh]

> > > > >

> > > > > Reading is fundamental.

> > > > >

> > > > > His score, in and of itself, does NOT answer the "Which is better, blades or CB" "question".

> > > >

> > > > Reading comprehension is fundamental!!!

> > > >

> > > > Isn’t the goal to get the best possible score and see which iron gives him that possibility? Again since score effects ones handicap if I score better with a cb/gi club then that is better for my game correct? If I score the same or better with a blade as a cb/gi then any of these club are good for my game and I can choose to play any of them. It’s just that simple.

> > > >

> > > > My last round I shot a 77 and hit 4 greens. Which irons did I use?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> >

> > Please “educate” me on how to choose what irons to play. Especially since playing the iron type that allows me to score best is incorrect.

>

> You choose however you want, just like I and everyone else does.

>

> After I explained my thinking about dbp's interesting experiment, which was NOT about how one would go about choosing one's irons (I've made my point(s) on that before), YOU asked why his socre "didn't count"..

>

> I already explained that his score, in and of itself, **does NOT answer the "Which is better, blades or CB" "question"**.

>

> I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

 

You didn’t comprehend what I was saying in my previous posts, which is fine. I’m done, good luck and happy golfing.

[Golf4lifer]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > > >

> > > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > > >

> > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > >

> > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > >

> > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > >

> > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > >

> > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > >

> > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > >

> > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > >

> > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > >

> > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > >

> > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > >

> > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > > >

> > > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > > >

> > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > >

> > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > >

> > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > >

> > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > >

> > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > >

> > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > >

> > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > >

> > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > >

> > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > >

> > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > >

> > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > >

> > >

> > Why can’t he use his score? The score is a determining factor in getting your handicap and it doesn’t know or care what type of iron was used. If blades are so unforgiving then the first thing that should be effected is his score.

> >

> >

> Well, I think scoring/HC has got to be the true litmus test. After all, the anti-blade crowd has been telling the blade-loving mid and high caps that they're deluding themselves by playing blades, and that they'd be better off with GI/CBs. Scoring is the end game for anyone playing for cash, title, or pride, so what else matters relative to that side of the argument. The blade lovers already prefer the looks and feel of their chosen MBs, right?

>

> Now, that's not to say that additional color commentary wouldn't be of any value, entertainment or otherwise...lol!

 

 

Well said! And this is what I was trying to get across, but I guess I didn’t explain it well enough.

 

[nsxguy]

> @Golf4lifer said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @MelloYello said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring. I'm serious, and if/when I do, I'll start a separate thread. I'm currently a 2, having been as low as zero and as high as a 4 over past couple of seasons, so I'm at a good starting point. BTW, theres something on the line, either cash or tournament in every round I play, so I'd be putting full effort into every round to score as low as possible.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > What do you guys think?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Good in theory but you'd have to make sure you didn't practice & play at a different rate so as to keep the comparison as reasonably "fair" as possible, you know? So I'd start documenting what you're doing now so you can replicate it later.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My routine is very "regular" so that would not be difficult.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I know others have claimed to have done this experiment, but if I'm not mistaken, most are all have been mid HC blade advocates claiming no difference in scoring from one to the next.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It would be be a little different with me. I'm in the camp claiming that true MB blades will typically hurt scoring unless you're a pro or plus level am. Plus, I certainly would never intentionally or even subconsciously tank to prove myself right; I'll have my own cash on the line for every round...lol!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It would be in anteresting experiment but only going by scores wouldn't prove a thing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You mentioned documentation, yes ? The only documentation that would be of any real use is objectively trying to quantify the outcomes of all strikes, the great strikes as well of the poor ones. As we all know golf is a game of wildly varying combinations leading to our "average" scores. One can have a terrible driving day and shoot 75. Or a poor iron striking day and get up and down from everywhere via excellent ships and/or a hot putter and shoot 75. One can hit 14 greens and 3 putt a few of them and shoot that same 75.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You'd have to objectively evaluate whether or not that ball buried in the front lip of the bunker because of the poor iron strike or whether your CBs would've been in the same place or whether it *might* have carried the lip for a fairly straightforward par (or better).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And whether you made the score you made on that hole was because of the poor result of a slight miss or whether you knocked an "impossible" lie tight or whether you just barely got it out and sank a 30 foot putt.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also, whether or not you were able to cut it or draw it into a tucked pin with the blade where the CB would've been problematic to hit the same shot and fairly conclude that the MB save you a shot there - or would the ultimate result of possibly not being able to carve the CB in would've even cost you a shot.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Actually a very difficult undertaking with a lot of objective judgement on your part.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But good on ya. Would certainly be interesting to here your conclusions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Would love to hear about a "10" doing exactly the same thing - have to wonder how much different it would be.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why can’t he use his score? The score is a determining factor in getting your handicap and it doesn’t know or care what type of iron was used. If blades are so unforgiving then the first thing that should be effected is his score.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [sigh]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Reading is fundamental.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > His score, in and of itself, does NOT answer the "Which is better, blades or CB" "question".

> > > > >

> > > > > Reading comprehension is fundamental!!!

> > > > >

> > > > > Isn’t the goal to get the best possible score and see which iron gives him that possibility? Again since score effects ones handicap if I score better with a cb/gi club then that is better for my game correct? If I score the same or better with a blade as a cb/gi then any of these club are good for my game and I can choose to play any of them. It’s just that simple.

> > > > >

> > > > > My last round I shot a 77 and hit 4 greens. Which irons did I use?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > >

> > > Please “educate” me on how to choose what irons to play. Especially since playing the iron type that allows me to score best is incorrect.

> >

> > You choose however you want, just like I and everyone else does.

> >

> > After I explained my thinking about dbp's interesting experiment, which was NOT about how one would go about choosing one's irons (I've made my point(s) on that before), YOU asked why his socre "didn't count"..

> >

> > I already explained that his score, in and of itself, **does NOT answer the "Which is better, blades or CB" "question"**.

> >

> > I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

>

> You didn’t comprehend what I was saying in my previous posts, which is fine. I’m done, good luck and happy golfing.

 

Obviously not.

 

You seem to be suggesting that score is the only thing that counts in evaluating your IRONS. I suggested that is NOT true.

 

So let me pose you this question then.

 

You shoot 77 (as you said you did earlier) with iron set X. You hit your driver very well and are dead center of every fairway and close to your average length on all of them. You hit 14 greens, 3 putt 1 of them, 2 putt all the others, score 77

 

The next round you shoot 77 with iron set Z. You hit your driver very well and are dead center of every fairway and close to your average length on all of them. You hit 2 greens, get up and down 11 times, 3 out of heavy rough and 3 out of bunkers and make 3 putts of over 20 feet You 2 putt the other 7, score 77.

 

Would you evaluate BOTH IRON sets the same ?

[Doublebuck]

The only thing that counts is your enjoyment of the game. Go have fun. Hit persimmon if you want a rush.

[BiggErn]

> @dciccoritti said:

> > @Golf4lifer said:

> > Why can’t he use his score? The score is a determining factor in getting your handicap and it doesn’t know or care what type of iron was used. If blades are so unforgiving then the first thing that should be effected is his score.

> >

>

> He's just preparing some BS excuse in case....you know....reality hits the fan :-)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

I started to watch it until I saw the crossfield head in the corner.

[Golf4lifer]

@nxsguy

 

Oh no....I thought we were talking about a prolong period with with blades versus my current irons (Apex Pro 16’s). After say 4 months, I should know my miss with the blade irons and be able to come to a decision. My average score with each would weigh heavily on which iron I choose. An iron can feel great but if I'm not getting the result I want then I’m not playing it.

[dciccoritti]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @dciccoritti said:

> > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > Why can’t he use his score? The score is a determining factor in getting your handicap and it doesn’t know or care what type of iron was used. If blades are so unforgiving then the first thing that should be effected is his score.

> > >

> >

> > He's just preparing some BS excuse in case....you know....reality hits the fan :-)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> I started to watch it until I saw the crossfield head in the corner.

 

Don't worry about it. It's not kind to your delusional bias. However I do have question for you. Do you think you lose 30 to 40 yards with a blade because you sh*t your pants looking down on it behind the ball? Does your swing get all compact and quick due to panic? Or is it simply you just going all out and coming out of your swing because you just can't swallow the shorter distance? Genuinely curious ;-)

 

 

 

[nsxguy]

> @Golf4lifer said:

> @nxsguy

>

> Oh no....I thought we were talking about a prolong period with with blades versus my current irons (Apex Pro 16’s). After say 4 months, I should know my miss with the blade irons and be able to come to a decision. My average score with each would weigh heavily on which iron I choose. An iron can feel great but if I'm not getting the result I want then I’m not playing it.

 

OK then, a misunderstanding.

 

You quoted me quoting dpb and his possible upcoming experiment about his playing blades for an extended period of time and my suggesting he needs to pay close attention to the IRON results, not solely to the score he shoots with them.

 

Over an extended period of time with a single set, then yes, your handicap is certainly an indication of how well you're doing with your irons. Not the whole story but at least a good part of it.

 

Later

[BiggErn]

> @dciccoritti said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @dciccoritti said:

> > > > @Golf4lifer said:

> > > > Why can’t he use his score? The score is a determining factor in getting your handicap and it doesn’t know or care what type of iron was used. If blades are so unforgiving then the first thing that should be effected is his score.

> > > >

> > >

> > > He's just preparing some BS excuse in case....you know....reality hits the fan :-)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I started to watch it until I saw the crossfield head in the corner.

>

> Don't worry about it. It's not kind to your delusional bias. However I do have question for you. Do you think you lose 30 to 40 yards with a blade because you sh*t your pants looking down on it behind the ball? Does your swing get all compact and quick due to panic? Or is it simply you just going all out and coming out of your swing because you just can't swallow the shorter distance? Genuinely curious ;-)

>

>

>

 

Lol. Talk about delusional.

[asofine]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @asofine said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring.

> > I just did this. For context, my handicap bounces around between 7-8. I have a garbage golf swing. My takeaway is flat/inside. I come in steep and over the top. I don't hit the ball far...at all (I hit a 5 iron 160 yards). My chipping and putting is very good though.

> >

> > I hit my friend's Mizuno MP-18 MBs and loved how they felt, so I stubbornly bought a set. I'm no worse off with them after 30 rounds. Handicap hasn't moved at all.

> >

> > Take that for what it's worth.

> >

>

> Switching irons isn't likely to change your handicap if you're not trying. Irons themselves don't play that big a role. It's like switching drivers. It can help or hurt your shots slightly but it doesn't fix a bad player or ruin a good one.

>

>** What I'd like to see you do is actually put in the work to cut that handicap in half. Fix the swing and get some distance going.

>

> In short, make some progress and then see whether you have the same cavalier attitude about the irons. **If you're just floating along at an 8 then you can keep making all the equipment changes in the world and stay right there.

>

> To me, that doesn't prove (or disprove) anything. Just my experience.

 

In terms of "putting in the work," I started playing in earnest two years ago and have gone from a 22 to a 7. So I'm definitely working on my game. With that said, my method of learning the game has been focused on learning to *play* golf - course management, gaining a touch around the greens, etc. more so than standing in front of a trackman working on changing my swing path by 3 degrees. I'm not saying that type of work isn't worthwhile (it would be for somebody serious), it's just not what I like to do. I like to play golf.

 

In terms of irons, i wouldn't describe my attitude as cavalier. I didn't buy my irons thinking they'd help my game. I bought them because I feel confident looking down on them and like their feel. I was definitely hesitant after reading so much about how punishing they would be, but a few dozen rounds into gaming them I'm convinced this issue is overblown.

 

There's a back/forth going on in this thread about statistically analyzing a switch to irons (and whether or not score is the best objective measure). To the user saying that score alone shouldn't be the measure, you're missing the point. Of course not all 77s are created equal. But in a large enough data set, the scores would reveal if switching irons affected one's play positively/negatively.

 

Personally, I would bet that blades would have a marginal negative affect on one's game in the long run. I'm not good enough at this game that I care about 0.2 strokes/rd. I play because I like spending time on the golf course, and part of that experience includes the feel of striking a good golf shot and even enjoying the aesthetics of the gear I use. For that reason I'm a blade convert. To each their own!

 

 

[dpb5031]

In terms of the "experiment," I'm not sure what metric I'd be able to track beyond score/GHIN HC index and GIRs that would be relevant and easy enough to do without slowing me down out there with my competitors, but I'm open to suggestion. I'd certainly be willing to discuss the subjective stuff, like ability to flight/work the ball effectively.

 

My GHIN index has been between 0 and 4 for at least the past 5 years, with my course HC on a 72/133 rated course at a 2 or a 3 most of the time. I play 4 times per week and my "practice" since moving to FL is limited to about 1 hours worth of warm-up prior to each round. Occasionally I'll go to the club one additional day to hit some balls if I feel the need to work on something. My new club does not have a short game area and does not allow chipping around the practice green, so my short game only gets a workout on the course during my rounds. Incidentally, in the past I've noticed a direct correlation between short game practice and HC.

 

So, I'm probably a good candidate for this experiment. I'm 51, been playing for 25 years, and without really stepping up my practice routine and short game work it's unlikely that I'll get much better, or worse for that matter, over the near term. If I just stick to my "normal" routine it should be easy to determine how a switch to blades from my i200s affects my game.

[MelloYello]

> @asofine said:

> In terms of "putting in the work," I started playing in earnest two years ago and have gone from a 22 to a 7. So I'm definitely working on my game. With that said, my method of learning the game has been focused on learning to *play* golf - course management, gaining a touch around the greens, etc. more so than standing in front of a trackman working on changing my swing path by 3 degrees. I'm not saying that type of work isn't worthwhile (it would be for somebody serious), it's just not what I like to do. I like to play golf.

 

I think that describes most of us. We play to play and organize our practice knowing how much we're going to play.

 

> @asofine said:

> In terms of irons, i wouldn't describe my attitude as cavalier. I didn't buy my irons thinking they'd help my game. I bought them because I feel confident looking down on them and like their feel. I was definitely hesitant after reading so much about how punishing they would be, but a few dozen rounds into gaming them I'm convinced this issue is overblown.

 

It's definitely overblown if you picture us as standing around in a field arguing about it, LOL. I see us as sharing our perspectives as a collective pushing towards a consensus that novice players could learn from.

 

My problem isn't with the 10-handicap who wants to give blades a go. I did just that on and off for a decade. I never got judged at the course. In fact, the pretty blades often got complemented. And there were always guys here willing to defend guys like me. So this definitely seemed like a "safe space" for the somewhat refined 10-handicap hacker I was.

 

I think people take issue with a few things. There are the high-handicaps who jump immediately to blades despite not having even learned the fundamental elements of golf as you described above. There are the mid-handicaps who claim they aren't just experimenting based on the allure but rather are "best fitted" to a set of blades.

 

> @asofine said:

> There's a back/forth going on in this thread about statistically analyzing a switch to irons (and whether or not score is the best objective measure). To the user saying that score alone shouldn't be the measure, you're missing the point. Of course not all 77s are created equal. But in a large enough data set, the scores would reveal if switching irons affected one's play positively/negatively.

 

Yeah, but that test is already done. It's you and me and everyone else and the 10,000 shots we've hit out there on the fairways. All we have to do is be honest and share our experience. Read my posts and you'll notice that I'm honest about my bad shots.

 

And btw, I think you're missing something. A guy like me doesn't switch from MBs to CBs because he's looking to get better. He switches because he wants to get the same result with less effort.

 

Right now using CBs I'm roughly the same ball-striker I was last year with MBs. The difference is that I'm practicing my irons way less and devoting that time to putting, short game, driving and fairway metal play.

 

Thus on the whole, switching to CBs has helped lower my handicap. You have to think big picture.

 

> @asofine said:

> Personally, I would bet that blades would have a marginal negative affect on one's game in the long run. I'm not good enough at this game that I care about 0.2 strokes/rd. I play because I like spending time on the golf course, and part of that experience includes the feel of striking a good golf shot and even enjoying the aesthetics of the gear I use. For that reason I'm a blade convert. To each their own!

 

I care more about getting a toe-sided miss closer to the hole than maximizing feel or aesthetics.

 

I certainly didn't start out that way. You learn that in time. I used to be like all the blades guys who saw things in a binary way. There are good shots and misses. But that's not the point of golf. This isn't a race where 2nd place is first loser.

 

 

 

[puttingmatt]

Wow, these threads are getting worse by the minute, Is there any reason why ?

Arguably, talking about implements that are being pounded into the ground after

A golf ball. I don't get it, but some of the useless ideas and comments, make

No sense, Go play, stop worrying about what clubs you should have, and enjoy

What you have, go play.

[MelloYello]

> @puttingmatt said:

> Wow, these threads are getting worse by the minute, Is there any reason why ?

> Arguably, talking about implements that are being pounded into the ground after

> A golf ball. I don't get it, but some of the useless ideas and comments, make

> No sense, Go play, stop worrying about what clubs you should have, and enjoy

> What you have, go play.

 

I've done it to a bunch of others so I'll say it to you. I'm going to put you on ignore if you post this fluff again.

 

If you don't want to participate, then leave. Nobody is being unkind here. Nobody needs you to hold their hand or defend them. And it goes without saying that everyone would rather being playing right now.

 

[dpb5031]

@MelloYello, above you state, "A guy like me doesn't switch from MBs to CBs because he's looking to get better. He switches because he wants to get the same result with less effort."

 

I'm not doubting that to be your mindset, but mine is a little different. My belief is that my poor swings, off-center, thin, or slightly fat strikes will result in more penal outcomes on the course, and therefore lead to higher scores. I'll give 2 examples:

 

I often have a go at our par 515 yard 5 second hole in two if it's playing down wind. A well placed drive down the left side of the fairway leaves me ~200 yards entirely over water. Depending on wind and length of my tee shot, it's often a 5 or 6 iron. It's all carry, but long is no good either, so I can't build in room for error. Bottom line is I need to strike it pretty purely to pull off the shot. If my i200s bail me out by keeping the ball in the air even a yard or two more on a slight miss, it can be the difference between an easy birdie or a likely double.

 

Our 13th hole is a par 3 over water approximately 170 yards, into a prevailing wind, with a treacherous green that slopes severely from back to front. Again, as a 2 hc I dont have shots to spare, so building in room for error isn't really an option; I need to strike it solidly and better get the most out of a slight miss, or it's wet.

 

Dunking the ball on those 2 holes will likely result in about a 5 shot swing in score. That's significant. Might be interesting to see what a change to true MB blades will do on the course in situations like these...

[MelloYello]

> @dpb5031 said:

> @MelloYello, above you state, "A guy like me doesn't switch from MBs to CBs because he's looking to get better. He switches because he wants to get the same result with less effort."

>

> I'm not doubting that to be your mindset, but mine is a little different. My belief is that my poor swings, off-center, thin, or slightly fat strikes will result in more penal outcomes on the course, and therefore lead to higher scores. I'll give 2 examples:

>

> I often have a go at our par 515 yard 5 second hole in two if it's playing down wind. A well placed drive down the left side of the fairway leaves me ~200 yards entirely over water. Depending on wind and length of my tee shot, it's often a 5 or 6 iron. It's all carry, but long is no good either, so I can't build in room for error. Bottom line is I need to strike it pretty purely to pull off the shot. If my i200s bail me out by keeping the ball in the air even a yard or two more on a slight miss, it can be the difference between an easy birdie or a likely double.

>

> Our 13th hole is a par 3 over water approximately 170 yards, into a prevailing wind, with a treacherous green that slopes severely from back to front. Again, as a 2 hc I dont have shots to spare, so building in room for error isn't really an option; I need to strike it solidly and better get the most out of a slight miss, or it's wet.

>

> Dunking the ball on those 2 holes will likely result in about a 5 shot swing in score. That's significant. Might be interesting to see what a change to true MB blades will do on the course in situations like these...

 

Agree totally.

 

I just wanted to highlight another, often forgotten, advantage of CBs.

[nsxguy]

> @asofine said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > > @asofine said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > I think I'm gonna pick up a full set of used blades and put them in play as an experiment for several GHIN handicap revisions just to see what happens to my scoring.

> > > I just did this. For context, my handicap bounces around between 7-8. I have a garbage golf swing. My takeaway is flat/inside. I come in steep and over the top. I don't hit the ball far...at all (I hit a 5 iron 160 yards). My chipping and putting is very good though.

> > >

> > > I hit my friend's Mizuno MP-18 MBs and loved how they felt, so I stubbornly bought a set. I'm no worse off with them after 30 rounds. Handicap hasn't moved at all.

> > >

> > > Take that for what it's worth.

> > >

> >

> > Switching irons isn't likely to change your handicap if you're not trying. Irons themselves don't play that big a role. It's like switching drivers. It can help or hurt your shots slightly but it doesn't fix a bad player or ruin a good one.

> >

> >** What I'd like to see you do is actually put in the work to cut that handicap in half. Fix the swing and get some distance going.

> >

> > In short, make some progress and then see whether you have the same cavalier attitude about the irons. **If you're just floating along at an 8 then you can keep making all the equipment changes in the world and stay right there.

> >

> > To me, that doesn't prove (or disprove) anything. Just my experience.

>

> In terms of "putting in the work," I started playing in earnest two years ago and have gone from a 22 to a 7. So I'm definitely working on my game. With that said, my method of learning the game has been focused on learning to *play* golf - course management, gaining a touch around the greens, etc. more so than standing in front of a trackman working on changing my swing path by 3 degrees. I'm not saying that type of work isn't worthwhile (it would be for somebody serious), it's just not what I like to do. I like to play golf.

>

> In terms of irons, i wouldn't describe my attitude as cavalier. I didn't buy my irons thinking they'd help my game. I bought them because I feel confident looking down on them and like their feel. I was definitely hesitant after reading so much about how punishing they would be, but a few dozen rounds into gaming them I'm convinced this issue is overblown.

>

> There's a back/forth going on in this thread about statistically analyzing a switch to irons (and whether or not score is the best objective measure). To the user saying that score alone shouldn't be the measure, you're missing the point. Of course not all 77s are created equal. But in a large enough data set, the scores would reveal if switching irons affected one's play positively/negatively.

>

> Personally, I would bet that blades would have a marginal negative affect on one's game in the long run. I'm not good enough at this game that I care about 0.2 strokes/rd. I play because I like spending time on the golf course, and part of that experience includes the feel of striking a good golf shot and even enjoying the aesthetics of the gear I use. For that reason I'm a blade convert. To each their own!

>

>

 

First of all, congratulations on such terrific progress. I must warn you though that the next 15 strokes you gain will be MUCH HARDER than the first 15. LOL

 

But a "large enough dataset" would tell us about our irons ? Hmmmmm. I wonder. What would be the dataset ? Your handicap ?

 

To me, golf is not a game that lends itself well to statistics as no 2 shots are the same. There are so many variables in every round played. And a change of any club(s) may or may not show up in your handicap.

 

As an example, in 2012 I went to a set of Ping G20s. Did my handicap change ? As I recall, not appreciably. However, what almost certainly changed was my consistency of scores. One needs to remember one's handicap is NOT an average score, it's an average of the BETTER HALF of your last 20 scores. I am quite sure my scoring range got noticeably better.

 

I mean, who's a better player ? The 7 handicapper that shoots 78 day in and day out or the 7 handicapper that shoot 78 10 times and 88 the other 10 times ? Which one would you like to be ? And yes, I realize that's an extreme example but you get the point.

 

And my saying that scoring alone shouldn't be the indication, it is you who is missing the point. Once again, just as another poster apparently misread, that was directed to the gentleman, dpb, who is(?) going to experiment over a somewhat prolonged period going from CBs to blades - so I'll stick with my opinion that handicap and/or all scores over that period of time are not necessarily indicative of whether or not the iron change affected his handicap either way.

 

 

[nsxguy]

> @dpb5031 said:

> In terms of the "experiment," I'm not sure what metric I'd be able to track beyond score/GHIN HC index and GIRs that would be relevant and **easy enough to do without slowing me down out there with my competitors**, but I'm open to suggestion. I'd certainly be willing to discuss the subjective stuff, like ability to flight/work the ball effectively.

>

> My GHIN index has been between 0 and 4 for at least the past 5 years, with my course HC on a 72/133 rated course at a 2 or a 3 most of the time. I play 4 times per week and my "practice" since moving to FL is limited to about 1 hours worth of warm-up prior to each round. Occasionally I'll go to the club one additional day to hit some balls if I feel the need to work on something. My new club does not have a short game area and does not allow chipping around the practice green, so my short game only gets a workout on the course during my rounds. Incidentally, in the past I've noticed a direct correlation between short game practice and HC.

>

> So, I'm probably a good candidate for this experiment. I'm 51, been playing for 25 years, and without really stepping up my practice routine and short game work it's unlikely that I'll get much better, or worse for that matter, over the near term. If I just stick to my "normal" routine it should be easy to determine how a switch to blades from my i200s affects my game.

 

Don't remember if you primarily play the same course most of the time but when I did that, or even now that I'm very familiar with the 2 courses I play primarily, I can usually remember every shot I played during the previous round after the round. In fact, I usually do exactly that on the ride home after the round.

 

So if I were doing the test I'd simply play the round and do the evaluating after it. YMMV ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[dpb5031]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > In terms of the "experiment," I'm not sure what metric I'd be able to track beyond score/GHIN HC index and GIRs that would be relevant and **easy enough to do without slowing me down out there with my competitors**, but I'm open to suggestion. I'd certainly be willing to discuss the subjective stuff, like ability to flight/work the ball effectively.

> >

> > My GHIN index has been between 0 and 4 for at least the past 5 years, with my course HC on a 72/133 rated course at a 2 or a 3 most of the time. I play 4 times per week and my "practice" since moving to FL is limited to about 1 hours worth of warm-up prior to each round. Occasionally I'll go to the club one additional day to hit some balls if I feel the need to work on something. My new club does not have a short game area and does not allow chipping around the practice green, so my short game only gets a workout on the course during my rounds. Incidentally, in the past I've noticed a direct correlation between short game practice and HC.

> >

> > So, I'm probably a good candidate for this experiment. I'm 51, been playing for 25 years, and without really stepping up my practice routine and short game work it's unlikely that I'll get much better, or worse for that matter, over the near term. If I just stick to my "normal" routine it should be easy to determine how a switch to blades from my i200s affects my game.

>

> Don't remember if you primarily play the same course most of the time but when I did that, or even now that I'm very familiar with the 2 courses I play primarily, I can usually remember every shot I played during the previous round after the round. In fact, I usually do exactly that on the ride home after the round.

>

> So if I were doing the test I'd simply play the round and do the evaluating after it. YMMV ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

>

 

Yea, that's a good idea and would not be difficult. 90% of my rounds are at my home course unless I'm playing in a state or county golf association tournament elsewhere. I occasionally play at several other area private courses with guys who are members there and also at my place, but I know those places well enough also to gauge my performance beyond just final score.

[nsxguy]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > In terms of the "experiment," I'm not sure what metric I'd be able to track beyond score/GHIN HC index and GIRs that would be relevant and **easy enough to do without slowing me down out there with my competitors**, but I'm open to suggestion. I'd certainly be willing to discuss the subjective stuff, like ability to flight/work the ball effectively.

> > >

> > > My GHIN index has been between 0 and 4 for at least the past 5 years, with my course HC on a 72/133 rated course at a 2 or a 3 most of the time. I play 4 times per week and my "practice" since moving to FL is limited to about 1 hours worth of warm-up prior to each round. Occasionally I'll go to the club one additional day to hit some balls if I feel the need to work on something. My new club does not have a short game area and does not allow chipping around the practice green, so my short game only gets a workout on the course during my rounds. Incidentally, in the past I've noticed a direct correlation between short game practice and HC.

> > >

> > > So, I'm probably a good candidate for this experiment. I'm 51, been playing for 25 years, and without really stepping up my practice routine and short game work it's unlikely that I'll get much better, or worse for that matter, over the near term. If I just stick to my "normal" routine it should be easy to determine how a switch to blades from my i200s affects my game.

> >

> > Don't remember if you primarily play the same course most of the time but when I did that, or even now that I'm very familiar with the 2 courses I play primarily, I can usually remember every shot I played during the previous round after the round. In fact, I usually do exactly that on the ride home after the round.

> >

> > So if I were doing the test I'd simply play the round and do the evaluating after it. YMMV ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> >

>

> Yea, that's a good idea and would not be difficult. 90% of my rounds are at my home course unless I'm playing in a state or county golf association tournament elsewhere. I occasionally play at several other area private courses with guys who are members there and also at my place, but I know those places well enough also to gauge my performance beyond just final score.

 

Worth a try. As I mentioned I do this after every round. Since I don't keep any stats I find it somewhat useful.

 

Usually after I round I have an idea what I did well and what I didn't but occasionally, when I go over each shot after the round, I am a bit surprised that each segment of my game wasn't quite what I thought it was.

 

Good luck with it. And thanks in advance !!!

[Nard_S]

> @dpb5031 said:

> @MelloYello, above you state, "A guy like me doesn't switch from MBs to CBs because he's looking to get better. He switches because he wants to get the same result with less effort."

>

> I'm not doubting that to be your mindset, but mine is a little different. My belief is that my poor swings, off-center, thin, or slightly fat strikes will result in more penal outcomes on the course, and therefore lead to higher scores. I'll give 2 examples:

>

> I often have a go at our par 515 yard 5 second hole in two if it's playing down wind. A well placed drive down the left side of the fairway leaves me ~200 yards entirely over water. Depending on wind and length of my tee shot, it's often a 5 or 6 iron. It's all carry, but long is no good either, so I can't build in room for error. Bottom line is I need to strike it pretty purely to pull off the shot. If my i200s bail me out by keeping the ball in the air even a yard or two more on a slight miss, it can be the difference between an easy birdie or a likely double.

>

> Our 13th hole is a par 3 over water approximately 170 yards, into a prevailing wind, with a treacherous green that slopes severely from back to front. Again, as a 2 hc I dont have shots to spare, so building in room for error isn't really an option; I need to strike it solidly and better get the most out of a slight miss, or it's wet.

>

> Dunking the ball on those 2 holes will likely result in about a 5 shot swing in score. That's significant. Might be interesting to see what a change to true MB blades will do on the course in situations like these...

 

I play a par 3, 190 to center with wind, all water approach & left, OB right & back. Elevated tee, to center plays 180. Play to 5 yards past center regardless of flag. Comfortable 5 iron for me. I've dunked it once the last 25 times I played it. On forced carries I play shot 5 yards more w/ MB. Be mindful that you'll have more spin on ball and that wind's influence is more dynamic in the calculus of shot, good and bad.

[Fumunderdog]

After reading this thread for a little while it seems like the pro/con side of this debate are kind of just talking past each other and making different points. Of course a more forgiving club is more forgiving, so giving examples of where forgiveness is important seems redundant. On the other hand playing blades instead of CBs might not result in any increase in score depending on player ability and how they lose strokes.

 

I switched from CBs to blades a few years ago because I was kind of bored with golf and just wanted to try something new. After switching and feeling the harsh sting of mishitting shots with blades it forced me to come to terms with some of the shortcomings in my swing and actually address them. Could I have done the same while using CBs? Sure, but I didn't feel the need to until my mishits were landing in the hazards instead of on the fringe. From a purely score based perspective my GIR have gone up and my handicap came down since switching. I was hovering around a 3 for what seemed like forever and got it down to 1 and shot the best 18 hole round of my life hitting 16 GIR. Maybe I could go back to CBs keeping the swing improvements I made and be better off (I've certainly considered it), or maybe I would just get lazy with my ball striking again. Obviously there is a diminishing return to using harder to hit clubs (at some point its just too hard to hit to be practical) but using blades to hone your swing isn't the worst idea.

 

Performance wise the only benefit I've seen is a lot fewer of those random fliers that travel 10-15 yards farther than expected which, as others have explained, comes from hitting perimeter weighted clubs high on the face resulting in a high launch/low spin ball. Great off the tee, terrifying with a 6 iron.

[dpb5031]

> @Fumunderdog said:

> After reading this thread for a little while it seems like the pro/con side of this debate are kind of just talking past each other and making different points. **Of course a more forgiving club is more forgiving**, so giving examples of where forgiveness is important seems redundant. On the other hand playing blades instead of CBs might not result in any increase in score depending on player ability and how they lose strokes.

>

> I switched from CBs to blades a few years ago because I was kind of bored with golf and just wanted to try something new. After switching and feeling the harsh sting of mishitting shots with blades it forced me to come to terms with some of the shortcomings in my swing and actually address them. Could I have done the same while using CBs? Sure, but I didn't feel the need to until my mishits were landing in the hazards instead of on the fringe. From a purely score based perspective my GIR have gone up and my handicap came down since switching. I was hovering around a 3 for what seemed like forever and got it down to 1 and shot the best 18 hole round of my life hitting 16 GIR. Maybe I could go back to CBs keeping the swing improvements I made and be better off (I've certainly considered it), or maybe I would just get lazy with my ball striking again. Obviously there is a diminishing return to using harder to hit clubs (at some point its just too hard to hit to be practical) but using blades to hone your swing isn't the worst idea.

>

> Performance wise the only benefit I've seen is a lot fewer of those random fliers that travel 10-15 yards farther than expected which, as others have explained, comes from hitting perimeter weighted clubs high on the face resulting in a high launch/low spin ball. Great off the tee, terrifying with a 6 iron.

 

I think if you read through this thread you'll see that there's not exactly consensus with regard to your statement (bolded) above. We've had many blade advocates stating that their misses are no worse with MB blades, and some have even suggested, much as you have above, that these random fliers from CBs are more detrimental to their score.

 

And I dunno, I'm a 1.2 index (as of today's revision) and I can honestly say I cannot recall a random flier resulting from hitting my perimeter weighted Ping i200s "high on the face" producing "high launch/low spin". The only fliers I experience are typically out of light to medium rough. In those cases I can usually identify that there's a high probability it will be a flier before I strike it and therefore try to adjust (guess it right) accordingly.

[reider69]

I play 900 forged for stronger lofts, high ball speed and most importantly forgiveness off toe strikes when my swing gets out of groove. I like taking a shorter club(8 iron) and hitting it 180 instead of having to use a longer club(7 iron) to get that distance. I feel more comfortable with a shorter length club and most people do. I have never had a shot..draw or fade that I couldn't pull off with my 900 forged due to the club design. The only possible reason I would have to play blades is looks, feel and enjoyment.....but I really enjoy being on the green after bad hits more than falling 15 yards short. ?

[mahonie]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > In terms of the "experiment," I'm not sure what metric I'd be able to track beyond score/GHIN HC index and GIRs that would be relevant and **easy enough to do without slowing me down out there with my competitors**, but I'm open to suggestion. I'd certainly be willing to discuss the subjective stuff, like ability to flight/work the ball effectively.

> > >

> > > My GHIN index has been between 0 and 4 for at least the past 5 years, with my course HC on a 72/133 rated course at a 2 or a 3 most of the time. I play 4 times per week and my "practice" since moving to FL is limited to about 1 hours worth of warm-up prior to each round. Occasionally I'll go to the club one additional day to hit some balls if I feel the need to work on something. My new club does not have a short game area and does not allow chipping around the practice green, so my short game only gets a workout on the course during my rounds. Incidentally, in the past I've noticed a direct correlation between short game practice and HC.

> > >

> > > So, I'm probably a good candidate for this experiment. I'm 51, been playing for 25 years, and without really stepping up my practice routine and short game work it's unlikely that I'll get much better, or worse for that matter, over the near term. If I just stick to my "normal" routine it should be easy to determine how a switch to blades from my i200s affects my game.

> >

> > Don't remember if you primarily play the same course most of the time but when I did that, or even now that I'm very familiar with the 2 courses I play primarily, I can usually remember every shot I played during the previous round after the round. In fact, I usually do exactly that on the ride home after the round.

> >

> > So if I were doing the test I'd simply play the round and do the evaluating after it. YMMV ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

> >

>

> Yea, that's a good idea and would not be difficult. 90% of my rounds are at my home course unless I'm playing in a state or county golf association tournament elsewhere. I occasionally play at several other area private courses with guys who are members there and also at my place, but I know those places well enough also to gauge my performance beyond just final score.

 

If you’re into apps, mScorecard is a simple app that you can put the basic data of a round into (FIR, GIR, Up and downs, putts, etc). It’s not a Strokes Gained application, but I find it useful.

 

[Exactice808]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @Fumunderdog said:

> > After reading this thread for a little while it seems like the pro/con side of this debate are kind of just talking past each other and making different points. **Of course a more forgiving club is more forgiving**, so giving examples of where forgiveness is important seems redundant. On the other hand playing blades instead of CBs might not result in any increase in score depending on player ability and how they lose strokes.

> >

> > I switched from CBs to blades a few years ago because I was kind of bored with golf and just wanted to try something new. After switching and feeling the harsh sting of mishitting shots with blades it forced me to come to terms with some of the shortcomings in my swing and actually address them. Could I have done the same while using CBs? Sure, but I didn't feel the need to until my mishits were landing in the hazards instead of on the fringe. From a purely score based perspective my GIR have gone up and my handicap came down since switching. I was hovering around a 3 for what seemed like forever and got it down to 1 and shot the best 18 hole round of my life hitting 16 GIR. Maybe I could go back to CBs keeping the swing improvements I made and be better off (I've certainly considered it), or maybe I would just get lazy with my ball striking again. Obviously there is a diminishing return to using harder to hit clubs (at some point its just too hard to hit to be practical) but using blades to hone your swing isn't the worst idea.

> >

> > Performance wise the only benefit I've seen is a lot fewer of those random fliers that travel 10-15 yards farther than expected which, as others have explained, comes from hitting perimeter weighted clubs high on the face resulting in a high launch/low spin ball. Great off the tee, terrifying with a 6 iron.

>

> I think if you read through this thread you'll see that there's not exactly consensus with regard to your statement (bolded) above. We've had many blade advocates stating that their misses are no worse with MB blades, and some have even suggested, much as you have above, that these random fliers from CBs are more detrimental to their score.

>

> And I dunno, I'm a 1.2 index (as of today's revision) and I can honestly say I cannot recall a random flier resulting from hitting my perimeter weighted Ping i200s "high on the face" producing "high launch/low spin". The only fliers I experience are typically out of light to medium rough. In those cases I can usually identify that there's a high probability it will be a flier before I strike it and therefore try to adjust (guess it right) accordingly.

 

Its funny as there is SO MUCH gray area's and scenarios.... But there is one thing that just never gets digested like it should. realistic smash factors. Sorta going to take this on a tangent but if you are wiling stick with me I appreciate it.

 

The driver debate goes the same way what is the longest driver... and I have posted so many times the same answer.

Go to your local store with a machine that reads both Ball speed and swing speed. Your intent is the find the MAX average swing speed you can produce with a driver. if that average is 95mph that is your target, if your average is 115mph that is your average.

 

NOW being realistic R&A has set a 257ct Units maximum (239units, +/-18units). thats it.... most drivers are in the realm of 240's and if we go on ebay for some tour issued heads they got the CT measurements.

 

now apply that to the 1.5 max smash factor, SO if at 95mph x 1.5 you get 142.5mph ball speed or 115mpp x 1.5 = 172.5 ball speed..... Add in the launch angle and spin... in a simple trajectory optimizer and BANG you got your realistic honest longest possible distance average....

 

Apply the same principle to a PW , if your PW swing at 75mph or 85mph, Tour Smash is 1.23 so ball speeds of 92.25mph & 104.55mph respectably. Apply the the launch conditions and spin conditions and you have your average distance.

 

 

HERE is the issues I ALWAYS see.....

 

In the Store the guy in the hitting bay gets handed 44* Strong lofted High launch lower spin shafted lighter weight PW (UN BE-KNOWING of this).... they see PW on the bottom of the club and proceed to smash 130 yard PW's. Compared to their bladed PW that goes 100

they buy the set which are all stronger lofts and shafts that are light to increase swing speed launch the ball higher and spin less..... . NOW a bladed iron penalizes off centered strikes greater in comparison to a larger perimeter weighted club period. Their issue is that the inconsistency of strike gives them a guess work of what they actually hit that club... What I mean is....on any given course day with their mediocre impact they average a PW about 120, BUT one day they catch that one shot flush, center strike maximum smash, lowest amount of spin and they get a hot PW that goes 140. But since they lack any type of consistency.... they blame the HOT club not the fact that if ALL was aligned by smash, launch and spin this is their POTENTIAL distance.

 

So with a ball in the middle of the Fairway.... There is NO hot spots on perimeter weighted clubs (SGI) they struct it as pure based on the smash, spin and launch. The only hot spots as you edified? out of mid rough and how hard I gouge the ball out I really dont know with confidence how far its going.

 

I have a swing caddie that I absolutely LOVE, this thing gives me some of the best data for consistency... for mid irons to wedges. This allows me to dial what I can do on a consistent basis compare the actual ball flight and bang.....I have what I have.

 

SO why do I play with blades? Because when I put my 46* lofted Amp cell pro with PX 6.0 up against my 46* lofted 714 AP2 with 1150GH stiff. I get about 3 yards average more with the 714 but about the same consistency, launch and control. I just like My Amp cell pros better. period... if I had a choice of coke or pepsi sitting in front of me I would grab the ....... Because its just what I prefer. THATS IT...... I gain statistically nothing...and lose statistically nothing, So I just go on what I prefer more...

 

 

[nostatic]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > In terms of the "experiment," I'm not sure what metric I'd be able to track beyond score/GHIN HC index and GIRs that would be relevant and **easy enough to do without slowing me down out there with my competitors**, but I'm open to suggestion. I'd certainly be willing to discuss the subjective stuff, like ability to flight/work the ball effectively.

> >

> > My GHIN index has been between 0 and 4 for at least the past 5 years, with my course HC on a 72/133 rated course at a 2 or a 3 most of the time. I play 4 times per week and my "practice" since moving to FL is limited to about 1 hours worth of warm-up prior to each round. Occasionally I'll go to the club one additional day to hit some balls if I feel the need to work on something. My new club does not have a short game area and does not allow chipping around the practice green, so my short game only gets a workout on the course during my rounds. Incidentally, in the past I've noticed a direct correlation between short game practice and HC.

> >

> > So, I'm probably a good candidate for this experiment. I'm 51, been playing for 25 years, and without really stepping up my practice routine and short game work it's unlikely that I'll get much better, or worse for that matter, over the near term. If I just stick to my "normal" routine it should be easy to determine how a switch to blades from my i200s affects my game.

>

> Don't remember if you primarily play the same course most of the time but when I did that, or even now that I'm very familiar with the 2 courses I play primarily, I can usually remember every shot I played during the previous round after the round. In fact, I usually do exactly that on the ride home after the round.

>

> So if I were doing the test I'd simply play the round and do the evaluating after it. YMMV ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

>

 

So do you have a stronger memory of more of the bad shots or more of the good shots? I can usually reconstruct a round afterwards, but some days it seems mostly I remember the good ones and other days the bad ones. Probably tied to my overall mental state (aside from being nuts...)