Strategy Off the Tee: Dog Leg Right for Draw Player

[jholz]

I play a predominant draw.

 

When it comes to the tee shot on a dog leg to the right, I'm generally trying to hit something up the right side, either a relatively straight shot allowing my distance to get me to/through the bend and into the fairway/left rough, or a draw that will pull the ball back towards the middle.

 

This, however, tends to be a risky shot for me. It seems like the window I have to force the ball into is very narrow, and there is very little margin for error. It freaks me out.

 

While I can execute the shot sometimes, I'm also just as likely to catch a branch on the right, or pull the shot left and into (or over) the far corner of the dog leg.

 

Ideally of course, I would develop a little cut fade or something along those lines, but I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon.

 

So, what's the secret here. Should I just figure out how far it is to the corner, hit an iron/hybird, and take my medicine? Any of you have any strategic insights that might help me to approach these holes more effectively?

[SNIPERBBB]

Generally I play to the end of the corner so I don't get short and blocked by the trees. High cut fade is the play if you can pull it off safely. When I'm in draw mode with driver, trying the cut tends to be either block or a double cross. Neither are usually good on doglegs.

[b.mattay]

Hit driver off the deck so it cuts! Or at least tee the ball way down to promote less draw

[Dave D]

I have this same issue at my club on a Par 5, in strokeplay I will always hit a draw with either 2i or 3wood into the corner of the dog leg. Left rough or even trees left if I really over do it is still much better than trees right. Which can easily find as the trees are very tall all down the right and I'm not that prolific at hitting a controlled cut with longer clubs.

 

Sure the ideal shot is a big high cut with driver round the corner. But scoringwise I will make many more birdies from left rough/fairway than right trees and more importantly way less bogeys. All about percentages for me

[Yrrdead]

So I have two suggestions for driver;

1. Go high and play your shape.

If you have the speed and launch hit that ball high and eff the dogleg. I find most people overestimate the height of trees and underestimate their ability to launch it over. Ymmv.

2. A reliable cut is relatively easy imo. Tee it a bit lower, hold it off, balls go right. Controlling how much right is a bit trickier.

 

On a strategy front , I know of a dogleg left hole that I know only needs about 190yds to get an angle and is only about 140-150. In this case since the hole is short, it's an easy punch with a mid iron. If your hole is short, put driver away and hit the easy shot.

[Hubijerk]

> @Yrrdead said:

> So I have two suggestions for driver;

> 1. Go high and play your shape.

> If you have the speed and launch hit that ball high and eff the dogleg. I find most people overestimate the height of trees and underestimate their ability to launch it over. Ymmv.

> 2. A reliable cut is relatively easy imo. Tee it a bit lower, hold it off, balls go right. Controlling how much right is a bit trickier.

>

> On a strategy front , I know of a dogleg left hole that I know only needs about 190yds to get an angle and is only about 140-150. In this case since the hole is short, it's an easy punch with a mid iron. If your hole is short, put driver away and hit the easy shot.

 

I agree with teeing it lower, but not so much on the holding it off, that's a recipe for a stall flip or a huge slice, and you will have trouble attaining any kind of consistency. A fade is something you're going to need, spend some range time and work on it. Teeing it lower will naturally help you in holding it off naturally, and you don't need much open to get the ball to fade. Remember all you need to get the ball to fade is the face being open in relation to the path, that's it.

What I focus on is teeing it lower and making my grip a bit weaker, closer to neutral. I aim the face up the left side where I want the ball to start and I align my feet ever so slightly left of that. I then make a normal swing really focusing on rotating my body and shoulders, keeping the arms and hands loose/passive. The key to this is to KEEP ROTATING. Let the club release naturally.

You can work on this by using alignment sticks, one for face alignment, one for you're feet. Once you get comfortable with the set up and mechanics it's all about trusting it. A word of warning though, it get's addictive hitting these flat cuts...

[Lodestone]

Learn to fade. But until you do, or on the days it isn't working, I'd hit the club that will get you past the inside corner, and not through the fairway. Try to make a par from the corner. Making pars is a good thing. Even expert golfers who can play draws and fades have their days when their secondary shape just isn't working. Making pars on the holes that don't suit their shape is what really good golfers do.

[fishstix94]

I had a similar issue. My course had 3 dog legs right. I do one of two things.

 

1. I would hit my 2 hybrid. I hit it high enough to get over the trees, and have it draw back in.

2. I would hit a "stinger" driver.. doesnt look anything like tiger's. But it works. Tee it down low, choke up, and open your stance a hair. Once you practice this it is a really reliable shot. You will hit a nice low cut. It take off a solid 20yds or so.

[GoTime]

> @Hubijerk said:

> > @Yrrdead said:

> > So I have two suggestions for driver;

> > 1. Go high and play your shape.

> > If you have the speed and launch hit that ball high and eff the dogleg. I find most people overestimate the height of trees and underestimate their ability to launch it over. Ymmv.

> > 2. A reliable cut is relatively easy imo. Tee it a bit lower, hold it off, balls go right. Controlling how much right is a bit trickier.

> >

> > On a strategy front , I know of a dogleg left hole that I know only needs about 190yds to get an angle and is only about 140-150. In this case since the hole is short, it's an easy punch with a mid iron. If your hole is short, put driver away and hit the easy shot.

>

> I agree with teeing it lower, but not so much on the holding it off, that's a recipe for a stall flip or a huge slice, and you will have trouble attaining any kind of consistency. A fade is something you're going to need, spend some range time and work on it. Teeing it lower will naturally help you in holding it off naturally, and you don't need much open to get the ball to fade. Remember all you need to get the ball to fade is the face being open in relation to the path, that's it.

> What I focus on is teeing it lower and making my grip a bit weaker, closer to neutral. I aim the face up the left side where I want the ball to start and I align my feet ever so slightly left of that. I then make a normal swing really focusing on rotating my body and shoulders, keeping the arms and hands loose/passive. The key to this is to KEEP ROTATING. Let the club release naturally.

> You can work on this by using alignment sticks, one for face alignment, one for you're feet. Once you get comfortable with the set up and mechanics it's all about trusting it. A word of warning though, it get's addictive hitting these flat cuts...

 

Do anything different for 3-wood? I can sort of cut the driver, 3wood is more difficult for me.

[jholz]

Thanks for the responses everyone. As usual, you folks tend to affirm my suspicions.

 

In the long run, I apparently need to develop a cut shot.

 

In the short term, I think I am just going to try to be much more cautious with these holes and focus on making par/bogey my maximum score.

 

Then, of course, I can attack the left-to-right doglegs and hopefully make up any lost ground there.

 

Any other brilliant ideas out there?

[I_HATE_SNOW]

Good question. My course was designed for the slice golfer, draw is trouble on several holes.

[MelloYello]

> @I_HATE_SNOW said:

> Good question. My course was designed for the slice golfer, draw is trouble on several holes.

 

Most courses I have played seem to favor the fade as well. This is probably intentional. Dog-legs that turn left usually have big, open fairways to accommodate the average player.

 

That said, I don't think there is an "answer" to this problem. You have 3 options: hit your drives straighter, take on the risk or just club down.

[Hubijerk]

 

> Do anything different for 3-wood? I can sort of cut the driver, 3wood is more difficult for me.

 

3 woods are notoriously more draw biased, but the technique is the same for every club in the bag. Another thing you can do which will get the ball cutting is is take the club more straight back as opposed to inside and up. This locks up you're hips, makes you're arms more dominant and practically ensures an over the top move that makes a fade an almost certainty. This is how I would hit a massive slice recovery shot but it's essentially using bad technique/swing flaw to generate a desired result. The 1st way will be much more consistent and powerful.

[RichieHunt]

Depends on the hole design. Better to get a Google Earth viewpoint. And also depends on the size of the draw you hit.

 

If I had to guess, driver is probably the right play...you just don't need to try and hug the right side as much. Stick to your stock ball flight and take a more sensible line and it will likely work out better than trying to take an aggressive line with the driver or an aggressive line with the 3-wood off the tee.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[jpdx]

depends on so much, especially what that right side looks like: trees? water? how severe the dog leg is, where the bend is, what shot shape have I been hitting etc.... but normally I just play my shot (more consistently right to left) over the right side and back into the fairway. I know i'm bringing in a lot of risk into play but I can control the draw better than a fade and i'm not proficient enough to play a fade with any consistency.

 

if there are trees in the way, i'll try to launch over the trees if the distance to the trees allow it. if I've been playing more left to right, i'll just aim down the middle and play it. I have 0 clue on how to hit a 3wd consistently, i'm not even sure why I carry it. it's just extra weight when walking - so I don't play the 3wd. sometimes i'll play my 4i if the bend is close enough.

 

 

[jholz]

Hey Rich, thanks for the comment. Here's a screenshot of one of the holes that got me last time out:

 

https://screenshots.firefox.com/oQ8godpD8WYhqbig/www.google.com

 

From the Mid-Back tees, it's about 250 to the center of the fairway over the bunker on the right side. The bunker is an easy carry with the driver, but if it gets pulled a bit left or runs out too much, I get blocked out by the trees on the left near the green. As a result, I'm always hedging to the right side of the fairway, and have caught the trees on the left side of the tee box on more than one occasion.

 

If I try to play a 3wood, it tends to bring the bunkers much more into play.

 

Obviously, there is a safe play to the fat part of the fairway short of the bunkers, but that leaves a long uphill approach.

 

So, I generally stick with the driver, and then pull the hell out of it, and end up by the two trees over the pot bunker on the left. Nice recipe for a double or triple.

 

[thepinkbomber]

Similar situation. Draw and miss is over draw. Coaches recommended learning a stock fade or take less club. Gets worse with trees down right side and the tee box moved to the right. Can't hit the driver draw on that. Less club or fade.

[iteachgolf]

How long is the hole?

[Lodestone]

> @jholz said:

> Thanks for the responses everyone. As usual, you folks tend to affirm my suspicions.

>

> In the long run, I apparently need to develop a cut shot.

>

> In the short term, I think I am just going to try to be much more cautious with these holes and focus on making par/bogey my maximum score.

>

> Then, of course, I can attack the left-to-right doglegs and hopefully make up any lost ground there.

>

> Any other brilliant ideas out there?

 

Learn the cut, play the cut, and remember...it's only a game. Right. BTW, how bad is that bunker on the right?

 

[provx]

I would say hit a hybrid or something off the tee or pull the driver, try to pull off the perfect shot and hit it as hard as you can. If its going to be in trouble might as well be farther down there

[jholz]

> @iteachgolf said:

> How long is the hole?

 

424 on the card from the tees i usually play, so not huge. But, a pretty demanding uphill approach with significant trouble far left and snack shack right.

 

I'd probably feel comfortable w/ anything up to a 4h on that shot, so could come at it from 175-180 or so at the longest.

 

Don't make fun of my distance folks! It is an uphill shot and I'm middle aged! :D

[jholz]

> @Lodestone said:

> > @jholz said:

> > Thanks for the responses everyone. As usual, you folks tend to affirm my suspicions.

> >

> > In the long run, I apparently need to develop a cut shot.

> >

> > In the short term, I think I am just going to try to be much more cautious with these holes and focus on making par/bogey my maximum score.

> >

> > Then, of course, I can attack the left-to-right doglegs and hopefully make up any lost ground there.

> >

> > Any other brilliant ideas out there?

>

> Learn the cut, play the cut, and remember...it's only a game. Right. BTW, how bad is that bunker on the right?

>

 

That bunker is no joke! And neither is the shot you have to hit out of it.

[cardoustie]

Hit it down the other fairway ?

[iteachgolf]

I’d tee driver down and hit it right over the bunker.

[tyorke1]

I will disagree with all. The tee shot will depend on your level and your normal shot pattern, but generally dog leg right I will most often hit it to the left corner or as close as possible. What happens and I see this allot is people try and cut it, come out of it and your margin for error is too little. down the left opens the hole and gives the most room, ideally a draw down the middle is perfect. Also a miss hit might get blocked out. I have won allot of am events by taking big numbers out and this is a danger zone to me. away from dog legs unless your normal shot pattern is the safest shot. If I had a cut I would be aiming down the left and trying to hit it in the middle , stay away from corners they mean chip outs.

[deadsolid...shank]

I feel your pain OP. My new course has one dog left left and six to the right. About half of them are pretty severe turns. I’m almost moved into the hook category instead of draw. I’ve been working on adding the cut, but the results are tenuous at best. What I’ve done is figured out the yardages to the middle of where the fairway turns and have been playing to that number. For the most part, the tress are just too many and too tall to do a lot of risk taking.

 

One other thing for me, I can hit a low hard punch hook pretty much on demand, the low punch cut, I don’t have it. So, for me anyway, if I am going to miss and be in the trees, I always want it through the dogleg to the left. I don’t want to have to try and move the second shot left to right too.

[MountainGoat]

Jeez, this is so easy. Just hit it 375 over the bunker so you're next to the trees and not behind them.

[Lodestone]

> @jholz said:

> > @Lodestone said:

> > > @jholz said:

> > > Thanks for the responses everyone. As usual, you folks tend to affirm my suspicions.

> > >

> > > In the long run, I apparently need to develop a cut shot.

> > >

> > > In the short term, I think I am just going to try to be much more cautious with these holes and focus on making par/bogey my maximum score.

> > >

> > > Then, of course, I can attack the left-to-right doglegs and hopefully make up any lost ground there.

> > >

> > > Any other brilliant ideas out there?

> >

> > Learn the cut, play the cut, and remember...it's only a game. Right. BTW, how bad is that bunker on the right?

> >

>

> That bunker is no joke! And neither is the shot you have to hit out of it.

 

Golf course architects are an evil bunch.

[LeftDaddy]

I love this thread. These strategic decisions are what wrecks my round more than anything else, typically.

 

Here is my challenge. I’m a lefty with a hook as a miss. And most doglegs on my course are dogleg rights. #s 4 and 5 are where my rounds typically go to die because both are very similar to what the OP describes...dogleg rights with trees blocking you out on the inside of the dogleg.

 

In theory a lefty draw / hook should be the easy shot into a hole like this. But I’ve found that it tends to overhook or end up too far right. And although I couldn’t hit a fade if my life depended on it if I try to, it never fails that if I aim left and want to hit a baby draw, I fade / slice it into the left rough about 230 yards from the hole (probably because I’m scared to death of the right miss).

 

Anyway, you guys are giving the OP some awesome guidance here. Maybe if I tee mine low, aim left and play the draw / hook and commit...the same principles could work for me? Ie with it teed low would be hard to hook it?

[jholz]

Thanks once again everyone for the comments. The discussion, overall, has been really useful and I appreciate it!

 

In the long term, I would love to learn a cut shot. With how little I get to practice/play, I might be able to have a semi-reliable cut by the beginning of next summer. It would probably take me another season of play (if not two) before I had that shot down. I obviously don't want to completely focus on that shot - and then go down some rabbit hole that completely destroys my game. So, I would take it really, really slow.

 

In the short term, I like the idea of recognizing these holes as a weakness in my game and treating them as such. To do that, I currently like two strategies. One for the really tough, tight ones, the other for those that are more open and potentially getable - like the Google Maps I example I provided earlier in the thread. Both of these strategies are centered on the idea of keeping the ball in play above everything else.

 

For the tough, tight ones - I'm going to accept the fact that they may be three shot holes and just lay up to the corner. I'm obviously going to have to start measuring and taking notes at the courses I play so that I know what to hit and where.

 

For the more getable holes, I like the tee the ball lower and hit driver idea. My brother, a scratch player, always used to suggest this to me when we were kids, but I wasn't serious about the game then and didn't pay much attention. So, I am familiar with the concept, but can anyone offer an explanation of how/why it works. It's supposed to result in a slightly shorter, more controlled result yes? In any event, that's a shot I think I could work into my game pretty quickly, and would love to have that option out there.

 

So, feel free to continue the discussion. I remain open to additional ideas!