Reed or Phil... Who's Was Worse???

[dpb5031]

Fair enough. It then really comes down to if you think Reed was intentionally attempting to unfairly gain advantage (cheat). I can see people having different views on this.

To me, I cannot believe he was unaware that he removed sand from behind the ball, thus improving the playability of the shot. Further, as a Tour Pro, I cannot fathom that he would be unaware that doing so was in violation of the rules.

Phil just embarrassed himself more with his goofy explanation. He only served to tarnish his own reputation and perhaps, given his status in the game, send a message to the USGA.

[imakaveli]

Dude... Imagine if Poulter did that. Phil cheated, in a dumb way, but he cheated.

[RichieHunt]

We're basically both nitpicking here. Both were bad and we have to judge intent and nobody knows what Phil and Reed's true intent was except for themselves.

 

For Phil it was such an egregious breaking of the rules in the sense that if I was 30 yards away I would be able to see that going on. In Reed's case, we needed a close up from a camera to see it. That's really my point. Both handled it in about as awful of a manner as one could imagine.

 

 

 

 

RH

[braincramp52]

Absolutely no comparison between the two. Phil's was a FU to the USGA for course setup at a U.S. Open that they screwed up on a regular basis. Reed cheated and tried to get away with it, got caught, and then denied he did anything wrong.

[dpb5031]

I'd call Poulter an idiot, same as my feelings about Phil. I'd also probably blast him for not having more self-control in dealing with his frustration.

Phil clearly and egregiously broke a rule, but breaking a rule in and of itself is not "cheating." I've provided the definition in previous posts. There was nothing surreptitious about it, and no intentiont to gain anything unfairly over the field. Period. It was ugly, but it wasn't cheating.

I'd never call any player a cheater for pulling that kind of stunt, Poulter, Reed or otherwise. I'd call him a buffoon.

P. Reed "appeared" to attempt to surreptitiously and unfairly gain advantage over the field, and got caught. Intent is the key factor here, and I'll agree only he knows his true intent. Still, depending on the burden of proof, I'd guess most juries would find him guilty as charged.

[dpb5031]

The fact that WE ALL knew from miles away, including Phil...lol, that it was an egregious rules violation practically proves that it wasn't "cheating." There was nothing covert or surreptitious about it. He lost his cool, he didnt try to gain unfair advantage over the field.

I do agree with you that its impossible for us to know Reed's true intent. Some will give him the benefit of doubt, some won't. Doesn't really matter at this point...

Still, the two scenarios, though both ugly, were entirely different.

Intent matters to me. No one gets hurt by Phil's actions except Phil. If the camera's aren't on Reed, that sneaky move takes prize money, ranking points, and potentially endorsement money away from others. Big difference

[manku]

Aside from a few hundred golf nuts online, no one really care about either infraction in the future...the media, and internet, needs to be fed everyday. Next week is will be some other trivial scandal.

Look at Kuchar...many (media and golfwrx) thought it would impact his sponsorships and popularity...aside from a few jokers in the gallery, it has basically been forgotten.

 

[Ferguson]

 

Gone, but not forgotten.

[QuigleyDU]

I like Phil more so Reed's is worse...

 

In all honesty. I feel PReed's was worse for the same reasons as others have stated. He tried to get away with something.

 

Phil made a bad pr move and thumb'd his nose to the USGA. I applaud him for doing so. Because of that incident Pebble was playable.

[QuigleyDU]

I don't think this is cheating. There are times in sports where an intentional foul is warranted. He calculated this to be the case. It is no different from fouling a shooter with seconds on the clock. It is a strategy that sometimes works. Take the penalty and move on.

[Titleist99]

Yep!.....at the time posters on this board thought that Kuchar was the worst human being on the face of the earth. You would think that he had done something personal to them....

[soregongolfer]

He'll always been "El Cheapo" in my house.

[Rob McHugh]

Plus Kuchar stiffs caddies - we must never forget.

 

Rob

[Vindog]

First, we must care, and I'm not sure that I do.

[braincramp52]

Well , then there are at least two of us.

[imakaveli]

Phil stopped the ball from running away, he did gained advantage breaking the rule... as I said, in a dumb way but he cheated. It's the same thing as Sergio hypotetically stopping the ball to run in the water at Augusta's 15...

A better behaviour would have been WD after that hole, that would have given a huge middle finger to the USGA and gained my respect.

[PuttLeftHitRight]

Phil was just trying to dare the USGA to DQ him, which he knew they couldn't or wouldn't. Reed actually tried to gain an advantage.

[Kwheat]

They both act like children when it comes down to it even beyond these incidences. Throw Sergio into this discussion too lol, he's the king in the high chair. Reed breaks a rule and says he didn't know but handles it like a fool so we say he cheated, Phil breaks a rule and knows it so we just call him a principled cheater lol. Same outcome, different way of getting there-- it's the viewers that somehow think it's different.

[Edward_Majorwin]

Phil wins it for absurdity and for doing something a lot of us have probably done maybe once in our golfing journey. The first time I saw the clip I was filled with joy and erupted in laughter. It was a beauty blatant release of pent up frustration. It wasn't like we needed a close up camera angle or anything.

Reed, on the the other hand, was just being a d**k and cheating. I laughed in disbelief on the first sand clear and then it turned to disgust on the second one. His explanation was pathetic, nothing more nothing less.

Reed is the champ!!!

[dpb5031]

I think it's clear you and I define "cheating" quite differently.

[braincramp52]

There is some really strange posting going on in this thread.