Hogan or Tiger?

[Valtiel]

I don't think it necessarily tips the scales, but we forget the addiction component for Tiger. He VERY nearly became the poster boy for the opioid crisis with what he was taking and there is a very real possibility that he'd be dead if it weren't for the DUI/arrest.

[Ferguson]

This topic has come up several times. I read the Hogan accounts. I saw Tiger firsthand.

It's not about the type of injuries - it boils down to how the stories from Hogan have been layered with drama over the years.

 

This post from tackingdummy nails it. None of us know the real story, all we know is what we have read. We have multiple written accounts that have been laced with campfire lore over the years. You all have to remember something, journalists in Hogan's time were true writers and their choice in prose was sometimes over-dramatic. By no means am I stating that Hogan's injuries were not severe and his "return to golf" wasn't great. I'm saying Hogan had the type of injuries that were trauma-induced. These were injuries that could be treated with the medical techniques known to doctors from their experience with other trauma injuries. However, Tiger's injuries were stress injuries, trauma yes, but of a different type. We saw everything firsthand in terms of Tiger.

 

My take is this:

Tiger made a "true comeback." He was done, out, finished - it was over. The average person would be disabled and would not have the ability to return to work.

Hogan had a car accident, healed from his injuries and "returned to his job." Many thousands of people return to work after car accidents.

Why is Hogan's healing process any different? .......because of "storytelling" to make it more dramatic.

 

 

 

 

[vman]

Both comebacks were amazing but Hogan's gets the nod.

[ChillyDipper]

The skeptic in me wonders whether he dove to the right to save himself or his wife. I think my instinct would be to dive right if I saw a bus coming at me favouring the left side of my car (as can be assumed), regardless of whether or not there is a passenger in the right seat. I guess we have to take him at his word.

Having just finished a book partly about Hogan's comeback, it sounds as if his injuries had lifelong effects that he never recovered from, and the depths of his physical despair were deeper than those of Tiger's. Apparently, Hogan's obituary had been written and was ready for release to the presses. Hard to compare what Tiger went through to that.

[MtlJeff]

Great post

I don't want to diminish anything Hogan did but just to put in perspective what you are saying about injuries and adding dramatic narrative, look at Tiger's win at Torrey in 2008. That happened in our lifetimes and many people on this board watched it live. That being said there are still MANY people who overstate Tiger's injuries even a decade ago

Very common to see people post that Tiger won that event "with a broken leg" or worse than that LOL

[sdandrea]

Can't say yet, Tiger hasn't finished.

[boggyman]

Hogan’s hands down. Tiger even said it himself in an interview or press conference once.

[tets]

Tough call, HUGE fan of both... Hogan had to beat about 5 guys, Tiger had to face much deeper fields.

[Colonel_Steelhead]

William Ben Hogan

[bscinstnct]

TW won the Ben Hogan award last year.

 

Hogan ever do that?

 

 

 

[Ferguson]

 

 

People, in general, tend to overstate things when it comes to people in sports or their heroes.

Here is something even the most die hard Hogan fans must acknowledge:

Hogan was a great player before the accident. Hogan was a great player after the accident. It wasn't a comeback.

He healed up after a car accident and simply returned to doing what he was doing before. There was no miracle. His body healed.

Accidents happen.

 

 

 

[BD57]

Hogan.

#1

People doubted whether he would LIVE, let alone play golf again, and when he did, it was in constant pain. Tiger wasn't dealing with "Life-Threatening Injury," and he's said the fusion surgery has allowed him to play without pain. Tiger's game may be inhibited some by the fusion (but how much, really, by fusion at one joint?), but Hogan's body was shattered, and it affected his legs most of all - Hogan on the "physical" side . . . not even close, IMO.

#2

Hogan, in terms of "recovery record" (although Tiger is still 'young' in his recovery). Look at how little Hogan played after the accident, and how often he won; if anything, he was MORE dominant from 1950-1953 than he had been before. Tiger's won three times, total, and one major; Hogan won three majors in a single year. MAYBE Tiger puts one of those years together and flips the script . . . . but as of today, Hogan did more with his game after his injury than Tiger's done with his (and that's not a slam on Tiger).

[undrpar242]

Hogan without a doubt. And take into account that he DROVE to most of his tournaments. No fancy private jets..masseurs...etc that Tiger had. Tigers, IMO was #3 behind Babe Zaharias winning the US Women's open holding a colostomy bag under her arm.

[bscinstnct]

You trollin for the new year ; )

 

Here's the fender bender...

 

[jemikeos]

Hogan easily. But an honorable mention to Harry Vardon who won The Open after being diagnosed with tuberculosis. (basically a death sentence in his time) and also Lloyd Mangrum who won the U.S. Open after being wounded in both the D-Day invasion and the Battle of the Bulge. All 3 are vastly superior to what Tiger did. Everything he came back from was self-inflicted.

[Ferguson]

 

Ferg don't troll.

 

How many times have we read in the paper or seen on TV "he or she will NEVER walk again?" A very dramatic statement, right? Then the person fully recovers.

 

Hogan had the will to play again - did that assist in his healing? Sure.

Was it a miracle that he healed - heck no.

 

[Hawkeye77]

It's been done to death and what bugs me about it is how for some, some (and not pointing at anyone here - but really, why start same old discussion again), it has to be some sort of morbid competition and measuring injuries and recoveries, etc. "Comeback" to me means a lot more than how serious was the injury, I mean you came back, right? You got hurt but you were treated and got better. You are as good as you are going to get, so to speak, at some point and you go out and play and what happens is what happens. It's like "you could put your eye out", but you don't and nobody got killed and on and on. They were hurt, made recoveries and performed at a high level after.

Hogan was in a car crash, recovered, no doubt had lingering issues and I've read about those, many have. Tiger has had a series of different injuries. The fear was real for both I'm sure if they would play again, but for Hogan that resolved pretty quickly, with Tiger's back and other physical things a completely different path. Ken Green? Really never came back - there's a perseverance story, though.

I don't know, I don't see on the basis of golf a reason to "rate" it. Not the world's biggest Tiger defender, but in reference to the broken leg, his ACL was gone and in need of reconstruction by the time he was in the middle of the 2008 U.S. Open and he had two stress fractures of his left tibia, so yes a broken leg by medical definition - there are all kinds. Regardless of what anyone's threshold is for the definition, I think it's fair to say that anyone else needing an ACL reconstruction would have had it done and passed on playing and however big or small the stress fractures were (haven't seen the films, lol), I also think it's fair to say few pro golfers would have put up with what Tiger put up with to win that U.S. Open and even played, let alone be able to overcome it - I still think it is one of the singular performances in golf history. But in football and basketball there are plenty of stories of guys gutting out all sorts of stuff we never hear about - but they are "tough", or supposed to be.

 

 

[J Bez]

I was unaware that Tiger almost died twice????

[Hawkeye77]

As are most because it didn't happen, but is relevant in what fashion?

[MtlJeff]

I agree with you that i hate our need to rank everything. But i was just making the point that we exaggerate injuries to add to the "lore" of what someone accomplished. Obviously there's a wide medical breadth of what "broken" can mean and even if we acknowledge what Tiger did was great, we can also acknowledge that the severeness of his injuries was probably exaggerated a bit for effect by many people who tell the story

This is how 2000 years after it happened, the Spartans were fighting against monsters , immortals and 12 foot tall gods from Persia

FWIW , i've torn my ACL and dealt with stress fractures . Joys of being a competitive runner, football and basketball player and etc....So i'm not trying to say the guy wasn't in pain. I know how much it hurts and for all i know his could've been worse than mine

[Dpavs]

Severe injuries in car accident including a fractured pelvis and a broken collar bone. Spent 59 days in the hospital before he was released. More time just getting back to walking normal again after being released. Finally returned to golf after 12 months... then didn't win for another 3 months. Afterwards he goes on to win 13 tournaments 5 of which were majors. Hogan all day long and then some.

[Ferguson]

Re: But in football and basketball there are plenty of stories of guys gutting out all sorts of stuff we never hear about - but they are "tough", or supposed to be.

 

I support this statement and NOT just because you are supporting Fernando Rey Day.   For the others - How difficult is it to change your avatar for one day to Fernando Rey?  

Too difficult I guess. I digress.

 

 

In large part, I believe this topic came up because the OP watched a TV program.  Again, TV (not dissimilar to the written word and broadcasts from Hogan’s time) can be over-dramatized with music and voice inflection.

 

[bscinstnct]

Tiger be Spartan like

 

[Hawkeye77]

Totally agree, there's always a bit of the line from "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" - "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." No idea how bravely Crockett really died at the Alamo, whether Forrest Tucker really had the biggest you know what in Hollywood - and man or beast (think horse racing), the overcoming injury sagas seem to grow over time. I think it's worse now just because it takes one nobody to put something online in a "new" report and it's quoted a couple hundred times as fact in a matter of minutes.

[Hawkeye77]

I know it's not part of this narrative, but the number of guys who played with all sorts of injuries that needed treatment just to gut it out, get the shot, whatever back in the day and sometimes just some random NFL game they probably lost probably put more on the line with their physical well-being than Ben or Tiger post-recovery.

 

But, that's for another discussion I guess.

 

And yes, easy to change that avatar, especially with the new site! Tough part after a couple of years is finding new pics!

[Ferguson]

Ah, but the Hogan fans argue..............."these stories and tales from the Hogan era came from eye witness accounts!"

 

Why are eyewitnesses unreliable?

 

[zonadub]

Hogan won the 1950, 1951 and 1953 US Open. They were all 36 holes on the final day (not changed until 1965j. All 3 of these titles were after he got hit by a bus.

[bscinstnct]

 

 

“Hogan once punched a hole in a cow just so he could see who was coming up the road.”

 

No, wait, that was Brasky ; )

[Hawkeye77]

So recovered pretty well then?

 

And not minimizing anything he went through or had to do to play later, but he got better. Isn't that the main thing?

[zonadub]

What’s your point? So did Tiger.