USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[davep043]

Under the previous USGA rules, it the Handicap Committee was not allowed to require submission of scorecards on a routine basis. It certainly could do that for specific reasons, in particular when a player has been suspected of "bending" the rules. From what I've read, numerous Committees either didn't know that rule, or chose to ignore it. The WHS has no such prohibition, which makes complete sense to me. To do that would be completely disrespectful of the traditions of handicapping in many places around the world.

[15th Club]

Yes it is true that ANGC's corporate arms have been buying up surrounding land, but at some remove from the golf course. The deal with Augusta Country Club IS different insofar is it IS to "expand the actual course." Muirfield (HCEG) made a similar deal to extend their 9th hole, with the Renaissance Club.

I think that every time you ask for one, I could provide you with an example of some odd extension that a championship golf course is undertaking, to keep up with modern distances. For those who know Oakland Hills; there was talk (fanciful perhaps, but as a result of a real distance issue) about locating a tee for the Par-5 2nd hole on the other side of Maple Road, which would be closed for Tournament play. These things set up walks of 150-200 yards, from the previous green to the new tournament tees. Its happening everywhere that they host elite championship play.

[bladehunter]

Got it. Thanks ! I knew I read that. But had no clue if it still was enforced after the rule change.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

It definitely wasn’t enforced here even before the rule change, haha! I joined this club in 2014, and I remember the pro saying they decided to do it to curb the bagging.

[bladehunter]

Oh yea. I’m not saying it’s a bad practice. I’d make it a rule if it were my choice. Every club all over. I actually argued that against the actual rule of it being illegal ( pre 2020) , and was in the minority big time. Which to me points directly to the issue. If there’s nothing to hide , why not sign and turn in to be posted. I’m on the handicap committee. It’s not as many players as most think. 130 some odd members of the handicap association. So I’d bet they play less than 100 individual rounds a week. Pros and assistants are busy. But they aren’t that busy. Not at my club. They have a lot of screen time doing nothing too. I know. My pro is my neighbor and texts me 30 or more times a week yacking about something. He could post 100 scores. Hell I’d volunteer to help him. It’s not that big of a deal if broken down. Anyway. Rant over. lol

[smashdn]

Yucko.

[smashdn]

Plus getting the cart path to go past a forward tee is easier than laying new path to extend it back to a tee or spot where the path didn't exist before.

[15th Club]

I’m glad Sandy Tatum didn’t hear you say that...

;-)

 

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Haha! That entirely depends upon your stance.

[gvogel]

I'm guessing it's less expensive than moving bunkers.

[storm319]

Those are rare outliers and not even close to the norm. This is an important distinction when there is potential for a global regulatory change in an attempt to avoid bifurcation (even if the intent is only to impact elite players).

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Not particularly addressing your post, but
The arguments for shortening equipment and lengthening courses seems to be getting more and more asymptotic?
The bottom line is bifurcation won’t work, and shortening equipment will cause longer play times.
USGA should simply do nothing and let scores drop for the elite.@tsecor , time to lock this thread Lol!

[tsecor]

at least this is talking about the point of the thread.....some of the other posts?? not so much....

after reading a lot of what you guys said, im not sure what the answer is....but I do think rolling back equipment for everyone could work.....

[bladehunter]

We don’t KNOW that bifurcation wouldn’t work. It’s never been done. It’s impossible to KNOW it.

[QuigleyDU]

I think that if bifurcation was tried. the game would settle the waters for lack of a better term and the bifurcation would to a large extent would suffer natural selection and everyone would be playing conforming equipment.

[bladehunter]

Yep. That’s exactly the upside. Lol. Depending hv on perspective.

[QuigleyDU]

I want the game to remain whole. I would prefer a complete roll back over a half @$$ attempt at appeasing everyone.

[bladehunter]

Sure. But I think In 5 years time it would be whole and forgotten.

 

dont worry. Ashley is correct. It’s not going to happen. Way too much $ at stake now. They will let the game finish dying first.

[DFS PFD]

They have certainly not forgotten the implementation of the groove rule....

[Pepperturbo]

May be off topic but golfers that don't have indexes are referenced rather often. Today more than ever they have good reason not to. A great many casual golfers (I know quite a few) don't have indexes because there's no benefit for $60 per year. This year an additional three people I know dropped their index subscriptions. They told me subscription costs are adding up. Maybe the industry needs to reflect on the fact, as it could be seen as pushing people away.

Back to the regularly scheduled chatter.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

It’s been tried on things much less relevant to scoring than distance reduction of 20%, and guess what? Everyone is using conforming equipment.@Pepperturbo is right, this game can’t really tolerate too many more changes, especially ones that make the game more difficult.
Bifurcation would be much more complicated than some of are giving credit.

[QuigleyDU]

I ue the grint app.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Genuinely curious, 15th, what "odd extensions" are currently being undertaken at, say, Pebble Beach? What about Riviera and Kiawah Island? What are they going to do to LACC for 2023? Whistling Straits? I honestly don't know...

[Mudguard]

I think bifurcation with the ball would have almost zero impact on the actual consumer. The manufacturers who supply tour balls make them softer, or whatever they have to do to reduce the speed (assuming distance is an issue in the professional game), stamp them ProV XY, sell the normal ProV to the public and the great unwashed (who are the key to this game, not Tour Players) wouldn't be affected.

The only issue with this is prospective professionals and deciding at what point they make the change, to the hypothetical slow ball.

The reality is those that play golf on a regular basis aren't concerned with using the latest and greatest shafts, most buy balls on price. I see some member's bags and they've only just made the jump from persimmon! And that's why I see bifurcation as less of an issue, especially if the amateur is allowed to have the hotter equipment (at current limits perhaps). That way the only risk is a pro trying to sneak say a hot amateur driver (lets say the reduced the CT for Pros on drivers) into an event which would be much easier to police than the other way around.

 

[storm319]

If the game is dying currently, no rollback is going to save it...

[bladehunter]

Not in the marketing and profiteers eyes. But it would live on in those who truly love it. Demand would set the price so to speak.

 

again it’s not going to happen. So I speak in hypothetical. But I truly believe we are in a bubble with the game. And at some point it will burst. And it’s all driven on being able to buy the game instead of earn it. ( my opinion )

[mahonie]

We used to have bifurcation lest everyone has forgotten. In the balata era, only the best ball-strikers got the benefits of the higher spin balata balls because they could control it and still hit it long. The rest of us didn’t have that level of control with balata and played with surlyn-covered balls or improved our ball-striking until balata became viable. The best players played a ball that was harder to hit for the rest of us...Pro V1 changed all that and took bifurcation away...we definitely had it though.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

The reality is there will be many more balls on the shelves. Some that hit shorter and some that don’t. It’s going to be more work for the consumer and the stores that stock them.

[DFS PFD]

Never experienced balata's, was there really that significant of a difference between the two? Lucky to have only been around golf for the ProV era I suppose.

[QuigleyDU]

Not really bifurcation there. There are still multiple ball options within conforming rules. Johnny Miller switched to a surlyn covered ball and won the open championship with it one year, but that ball and the balata still fell within set parameters.

Bifurcation is have different set of limits or rules on a tour ball vs a rec ball. One rule book for play at a certain level vs another. That is what I am against. I want one set of rules for everyone. it is one of the beauties of golf to me. And as has been discussed it is the handicap system as long as it is applied correctly that is the great equalizer.