Code of Conduct Experience

[2bGood]

Not entirely the case, but as I understand it, in part yes the first group out has no chance of footprints, and later groups have some chance of this. I have never had the pleasure of playing there, but my understanding is they do have people maintaining the bunkers - in particular high traffic ones - throughout the day.

During Covid we been doing the no rake thing and I have to say, it has not been a huge deal. The bunkers are well prepped in the morning and then we have a summer employee looping around marinating them throughout the day. I think it was working out to every three hours the bunkers are being raked. The down side is the extra cost for employees (no big deal for Pine Valley) This approach has me thinking the Pine Valley is not so much trying to make the bunkers more challenging, but rather taking care of their members as I am sure they have more than one staff member looping around maintaining the bunkers so the odds of a footprint are very low.

 

[Deceptively Short]

Seems like their idea is to make the bunkers a lottery rather than a hazard, a lottery that you definitely win if you go out first. If their logic is to make bunkers a genuine hazard then why rake them every morning?

Little wonder that this regime is not followed by any other well known courses or, come to that, not well known courses elsewhere.

[LeoLeo99]

Courses I play have removed the rakes but we try to smooth out the footprints as best we can so the bunkers are at least playable for the next person.

 

 

[2bGood]

This is the same with us (and Pine Valley)

 

 

Never before has been club been included in the same sentence as Pine Valley

[2bGood]

Yes it certainly is an unusual regime. I wish I fully understood what they are doing and why. From articles about it, they do note that the bunkers are maintained throughout the day by staff. Given they have an active caddie program I curious to why they would not have caddies raking when they have other staff out raking?

One thing is clear they are significantly in the minority

[LeoLeo99]

Which Pine Valley?

[Sawgrass]

“Given they have an active caddie program I curious to why they would not have caddies raking when they have other staff out raking?”

 

I’m sure it’s an effort to limit the exchange of virus between people. One guy using the same rake all day limits exposure vs, multiple people sharing the same rake.

[2bGood]

Sorry, I should have been more clear, I am not talking about Covid procedures. I am talking pre-covid for Pine Valley, NJ.

They do not have rakes in the bunker, but they do have staff rake bunkers at the beginning of the day and throughout the day. Seems curious to me that they only go half-way with the bunkers, not letting the go fully to their natural state, but also not keeping the fully taken care of.

[chippa13]

When a player takes a huge divot in the fairway they are expected to replace the divot or thru the use of sand/seed bring that portion of the ground as close to the level of the fairway as possible. The idea is to bring the ground as close to the condition that you found it as possible. That is why it is necessary to rake a trap after you've been in it. You might have walked into a pristine trap but because you really like to dig in you may have created quite sizable holes in the sand that would be nearly impossible for the next player to get out of. Explain how that is fair to the playing competitors behind you had you not raked the trap.

[oikos1]

Simple. You smooth it out with your foot. Just like you would tamp down a fairway divot when replacing. Or when repairing a pitch mark on a green. Many of you seem to be lost in "etiquette" vs penalty, and "rake" vs foot. After all, rakes are a twentieth century crutch. As 2bGood pointed out, the covid era of no rakes hasn't really been a problem. All golfers I play with just smooth it out with their foot. And if someone didn't, or did a poor job, and my ball found it's way to a poor lie in a bunker, I certainly wouldn't cry about it and expect them to be penalized.

I have to say, and some of you aren't going to like it, but 'm kind of shocked how sensitive many of you are to expecting a bunker to be so perfect. Doesn't speak well to many of golf's traditions, especially since no one has adequately been able to address one of the first rules of golf, play the course as you find it. For those of you playing courses where rakes have been removed, somehow you've managed to find a way to dig deep into your mind and spirit and continue to play on through such atrocious and adverse conditions. For that, I say good job!

[antip]

Again, you miss the boat. It is nothing to do with perfect bunkers. It is about not trashing the course. Something some entitled types think is okay, let some other dude do any necessary tidying.

[rogolf]

We're playing preferred lies in our bunkers - move it if you think you need to.

[Mr. Bean]

'Doesn't speak well to many of golf's traditions, especially since no one has adequately been able to address one of the first rules of golf, play the course as you find it.'

So it is ok from your point of view not to repair pitch-marks on the putting green? It just makes playing more challenging to 'play the course as you find it', doesn't it?

As antip wrote, you missed the boat. Again. Code of Conduct as we are speaking about it here is about caring for the course and in current world raking the bunkers is part of caring for the course, no matter what you and your likes think about it. Maybe someday it will change but that is a different story and has nothing to do with our policy to set players straight in competitions should they neglect their duties in caring for the course.

Oh, btw, the reference to Pine Valley seems to have been a rather silly act. Not having rakes in bunkers seems not to be the same as bunkers not being raked as the personnel rakes the bunkers anyway. Maybe not immediately after one player has left the bunker but quite a few times per day. It is pretty much the same to say players on the PGA Tour are not required to rake the bunkers. Well, they are, but their caddies do the raking...

[chippa13]

I believe it was when DJ was leaving the 18th at Harbor Town when one of the caddies was cleaning up the bunker over the 18th green. You could hear the chatter as the players were asking who destroyed the bunker and left it. The PGA official said the player would hear about it.

[oikos1]

I'm starting to think you don't actually comprehend anything you read. I clearly stated I repair pitch marks. I think all players should repair pitch marks. I do not think players should receive a penalty during a round for not repairing a pitch mark, or better yet repairing it improperly.

As for bunkers, I also stated that smoothing with a foot should be perfectly acceptable, yet if a player chooses not to or does a poor job they should not be penalized during the round. As I already stated, the golf course or committee can render a decision after the round that could be fines, suspensions or banning.

I have also clearly stated that repairing fairway divots is appropriate. Interesting isn't it that the fairway and the green are places you want to be. The bunker is not.

Most of you are so terrified of losing your precious rakes you can't see the forest for the trees, or in this case the sand in the bunkers.

[chippa13]

If you are in a competition and through your action or inaction create a situation where you're receiving an unfair advantage then you should be penalized with strokes. It is known as protecting the field.

[Mr. Bean]

So... you are applying the principle of 'play the course as you find it' only when you see it fit?

It seems you are the one who does not understand either what you read, but what is worse, what you write. But so be it, we are both entitled to our opinions and I will not spend any more time in responding yours. Have a nice summer!

[davep043]

"I think all players should repair pitch marks. I do not think players should receive a penalty during a round for not repairing a pitch mark, or better yet repairing it improperly.
As for bunkers, I also stated that smoothing with a foot should be perfectly acceptable, yet if a player chooses not to or does a poor job they should not be penalized during the round. "
This is a valid opinion, in my own opinion. However, the Rules of Golf specifically give the Committee the authority to define lack of proper care for the course as an infraction, and the authority to penalize that infraction with penalty strokes on the course. The Committee has the authority to make many many choices, and certainly the wisdom of some of of those choices could be debated. I have never seen a Code of Conduct like the ones discussed here, and it has opened my eyes to something new. I'm not sure what I'd decide if I was on a Committee facing this type of decision, I'd probably agree with @oikos1 , unless previous experience has shown that real stroke penalties were necessary to enforce something that should be done by every golfer.

[Newby]

"I have never seen a Code of Conduct like the ones discussed here, and it has opened my eyes to something new."

That's probably because the facility wasn't there before.

 

[sui generis]

I'm a referee, as you know, Dave. Every event I'm a part of has some elements of a Code of Conduct (and associated penalties) embedded in the Terms of Competition. It's there as a tool for the Committee. That said, it's rarely needed. Ninety nine times out of a hundred, a "quiet word" does the trick.

[Pepperturbo]

A bunker obstacle and divot are not not equal to one another. All bunkers are intended as obstacles, ranked or not. Many better golfers including myself, no longer see them as that though. Divots are nothing more that the result of someone hitting the ball from the fairway, no obstacle intended. I don't leave holes to china in the fairway, so if someone's ball lands in my scrap it's no biggy, much less an obstacle. However, digger divots are maybe another story for those unskilled. Better golfers typically take divots in the fairway in stride. My 2cents.

Code of conduct penalty for not raking is a separate issue that by design, is difficult to impose.

[Mudguard]

Does anyone else see this is a bit of slippery slope? Under the old rules the committee couldn't just make rules up that contravened the rules of golf (clean and place through the green ugh, though that seems more blurry in the new rules). Issuing a penalty for not repairing something? I think you would have to be really unlucky to be assessed for this, perhaps only if you were playing with someone from the committee or the club captain who had the gumption to actually apply it.

[rogolf]

Codes of Conduct are implemented by the Committee in charge of the competition to set expectations of behaviour for all players (and others, such as parents and caddies) in that competition. Failure by the players (or others) to adhere to the the Codes of Conduct will result in consequences, which are also determined by the Committee in charge, and applied through the authority of that Committee.

By application to play in the competition, players (and others) are agreeing to abide by the Codes of Conduct and accepting the consequences of failure to do so.

As an example, Golf Canada's competition policies are listed on their website,https://golfcanada.ca/about-us/#golf-canada-competition-policies

I would suggest that every organization has codes of conduct for its "participants" and consequences for failing to adhere.

[sui generis]

Read through this to see the thought behind the Code of Conduct notion:2019 Rule: Under Rule 1.2b, a Committee will be allowed to adopt a “Code of Conduct” that:Sets the Committee’s own standards for how players should conduct themselves, andMay set penalties less than disqualification (such as a one-stroke penalty or a two-stroke penalty/loss of hole penalty) for a player’s breach of those standards.The Committee will also still be able to disqualify a player for serious misconduct that is contrary to the spirit of the game, as emphasized in new Rule 1.2a (see Explanation for Proposed Rule Change – Expected Standards of Player Conduct). Reasons for Change:Some Committees have requested additional means under the Rules to allow them to address player conduct that is contrary to expected standards that are central to the game (such as courtesy and sportsmanship).In many cases, disqualifying a player for inappropriate behavior will be overly harsh - leaving Committees today with no way to penalize players for such behavior.This has been a particular concern for junior golf organizations whose mission often includes teaching young golfers how to act while on the course.The proposed Rule change will give Committees flexibility to set and enforce standards of conduct specific to their competitions and players, should they choose to do so. Major Change: Code of Player Conduct

[2bGood]

It could be more slippery if you did not penalize players that intentional left the course is disrepair to penalize the rest of the field.

[antip]

Absolutely. These are the most avoidable rule breaches in existence. Simply meet the required behaviours - a commitment you voluntarily accept by choosing to enter a particular competition - and no issues arise. Alternatively, stay away from those events and clubs that operate a Code of Conduct that you disapprove of. And all Codes I have seen so far are 'guilty' of nothing more than requiring common-sense, considerate behaviours on the course, tailored to the nature of the event.

[charli]

a lot of pine valleys bunkers are waste bunkers. And I also hate you two for ruining this post.

[Mr. Bean]

You have already had many esteemed answers from various experienced referees and I will continue the path they have shown.

It all comes to the word Conduct. Golf players in a competition are expected to act in a certain manner. It involves courtesy towards other players, respect for the course, safety aspects and care for the course. The Code of Conduct is the measure of that conduct and it should be followed and respected by all competitors. Now, the Committee is in the position of setting the standards for the Code and also monitoring how the acts of players fit to those standards. When a competitor acts in a manner outside those standards the Committee has the obligation to intervene. The first offence will result to a short discussion with maybe a warning for a penalty to be assessed next time. The idea here is to remind the player(s) about the standards and the Code of Conduct, not to hunt down villains and to pour penalties on them.

When it comes to care for the course it is absolutely vital to understand that each player should only try their best. That means nobody is going to measure how smooth a bunker was after raking but it is enough if the player tries to do the job properly. Come to think of it, the best advice to that may have come from the great Arnold Palmer when he commented on fixing a ball-mark on the green. He said 'do it so well that you would be satisfied to putt from the spot yourself'. I guess that says it all.

[oikos1]

Thank you @davep043 and @Mudguard . The slippery slope and application of a rule that requires players to provide "maintenance" and subsequent stroke penalties for lack of "maintenance" is the issue. Not whether or not a player should be courteous and apply basic standards of care to the course. Of course they should (which usually can be attributed to a lack of education, not an intentional attempt to gain an advantage). Which is exactly why I repair pitch marks, fairway divots and smooth out bunkers (believe it or not, I even use a rake when one is provided).

[Halebopp]

Out of curiosity, you keep referring to fairway divots, would I be reading too much into the phrase if I assumed you wouldn't try to repair divot holes in the rough?