Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[coops]

16 hours ago, glk said:

 

 

Holy moly... even the top of backswing position is way better, but that shaft plane coming down is absolutely transformed for the better.

 

I'm now off to rewatch the entire No-Turn cast video... (and i've already had some of my best ball striking rounds ever, especially with the driver...)

[glk]

6 hours ago, coops said:

 

Holy moly... even the top of backswing position is way better, but that shaft plane coming down is absolutely transformed for the better.

 

I'm now off to rewatch the entire No-Turn cast video... (and i've already had some of my best ball striking rounds ever, especially with the driver...)

The reason why I advocated for people to take a lesson , online via FaceTime/zoom, in person if possible, or by video, with Monte and not solely attempt to make this change on their own - very, very difficult making any change via a video by oneself  - even with instructors some people can’t get over the weird feeling of a better motion - some have even argued with Monte that it can’t be right cause the internet, their buddies, etc say different.    Hard for us humans to get out of our comfort zone, in general.

[MonteScheinblum]

22 minutes ago, glk said:

The reason why I advocated for people to take a lesson , online via FaceTime/zoom, in person if possible, or by video, with Monte and not solely attempt to make this change on their own - very, very difficult making any change via a video by oneself  - even with instructors some people can’t get over the weird feeling of a better motion - some have even argued with Monte that it can’t be right cause the internet, their buddies, etc say different.    Hard for us humans to get out of our comfort zone, in general.

A certain well known know it all really let me have it that no one good did this move and he had wrist graphs to prove it.  He must have felt pretty stupid when Bryson was seen saying it was one of the keys to his increased speed.

 

Every good player does it, the only variable is when.  The hard part if you aren’t on the lesson tee every day is you miss that there are multiple forces being applied and you have to feel it first move down.  The downswing happens so fast and there are other forces moving in the other direction, so it doesn’t look like it happens that early, nor does it measure happening that early.

Edited October 19, 2020 by MonteScheinblum

[Puttersaurus Rex]

^Yes.  After watching and reading, I thought I had "it".  Then I could tell I was not casting correctly.  It felt very foreign, and against my "old" swing. 

 

I worked backwards, and re-watched Monte's other videos (set-up and grip, use the bounce, efficient swing).  It started to click recently, and I am concentrating on slow and strategic practice.  8 iron on up are showing the most improvement.  My consistency and dispersion have been better overall after six weeks.  Happy to see the improvements thus far!

 

 

[FatThinNeverIn]

I don't care about distance.  I just care about hitting the ball reasonably solid i.e. not fat and not swinging over the top with a leftwards pointing face.  I want to be a 9 handicap, not scratch.  I've tried everything else.  I need assurance that this will work for me, but no one is in a position to give me that assurance, understandably.  

 

It's not about investing 26 dollars- it's about me making a swing commitment.  

[chipa]

21 minutes ago, FatThinNeverIn said:

I don't care about distance.  I just care about hitting the ball reasonably solid i.e. not fat and not swinging over the top with a leftwards pointing face.  I want to be a 9 handicap, not scratch.  I've tried everything else.  I need assurance that this will work for me, but no one is in a position to give me that assurance, understandably.  

 

It's not about investing 26 dollars- it's about me making a swing commitment.  

 

I once read that 95 percent of golfers have an over the top move and in my experience getting instruction or asking for tips from pros before you can finish telling them what's wrong with your swing they blurt out how to fix your "slice". However, I haven't sliced in a long time. My point is the no turn cast move seems to be good for people who have a classic over the top move, but not for everyone (like myself). 

 

What you may find out is that your swing is different than most, like mine, and may need to try various approaches to the swing. I have looked at Manuel de La Torre's, but he isn't specific enough about the hand and arm mechanics so I can never seem to get the club into position. Malaska seem knowledgeable but then again his lack of understanding of physics and where power comes in the golf swing may turn you off like it did me. Shawn Clements has a lot of useful info and has a varied approach. A lot of people like Monte as well. Jimmy Ballard has a body centered swing with very little focus on the hands, which I tried but is not for me because my hands never get in the right position in spite of the fact that I have good lower body action and a decent shoulder turn.

 

However, I learned something very useful from Jimmy Ballard, the connection of the elbows. I have long felt that when I am swinging well that my forearms and hands felt like they were working as one so that the club position and release were almost automatic - like point and shoot. So while I can't completely do the Jimmy Ballard method I took something away from his teaching and it worked at the course and I hit it like a pro.

 

Also, regarding the takeaway which I believe is the most important part of the swing, there are basically two schools of thought, one the one piece no hand/forearm rotation and two the pronate/turn the left hand over to start like Hogan recommended and others do or did(Mike Austin, John Daly). The "one piece" seems to be in favor now but it doesn't work for me. Interestingly, when I did Jimmy Ballard's no hands takeaway with the elbows pointing down using the hands to start that's when everything clicked and I hit it good, go figure.

Edited October 19, 2020 by chipa

[glk]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

A certain well known know it all really let me have it that no one good did this move and he had wrist graphs to prove it.  He must have felt pretty stupid when Bryson was seen saying it was one of the keys to his increased speed.

 

Every good player does it, the only variable is when.  The hard part if you aren’t on the lesson tee every day is you miss that there are multiple forces being applied and you have to feel it first move down.  The downswing happens so fast and there are other forces moving in the other direction, so it doesn’t look like it happens that early, nor does it measure happening that early.

Unlikely we come out to see my son in San Diego this year so probably looking for another online sometime in the future versus in person.   Til then I think I’m getting that extension thing down at least that’s what video tells me.   Weird has gone away but still need to pay attention.   Now it’s just be an athlete.    Lol.

 

until then, hope that lesson tee is filling up.

[glk]

If folks  need more confirmation on this motion here is como and sinclair - and bonus is the part of both arms supinating in the downswing.  
 

 

 

[Simpsonia]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

A certain well known know it all really let me have it that no one good did this move and he had wrist graphs to prove it.  He must have felt pretty stupid when Bryson was seen saying it was one of the keys to his increased speed.

 

Every good player does it, the only variable is when.  The hard part if you aren’t on the lesson tee every day is you miss that there are multiple forces being applied and you have to feel it first move down.  The downswing happens so fast and there are other forces moving in the other direction, so it doesn’t look like it happens that early, nor does it measure happening that early.

 

 

Speaking of this, do you think the feels or sequencing change based on grip matchups? I was definitely struggling with Cast A, finally setting on having to sequence it a little differently. Still don't feel like I have it fully down, but I felt like I have to do more of the dump (from bump dump and turn) before I can try to feel any of the cast, otherwise my arms get too fast and I'm over the top. After watching the Jake Hutt video below, I noticed that I do have an extremely strong right hand grip, and when I tried weakening it, it did feel like I could cast (ulnar deviate) more from the top as I could incorporate some of the downward motion with the cast that I wasn't able to do with the very strong right hand grip. Probably in combination with being fairly laid off at the top, it feels like the only move my right wrist can make is suppination, since it's at full extension and can't really ulnar deviate. Or am I just misunderstanding all of this? 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFKfeaen-pE/

[glk]

Another great drill that directly applies.   Do the cast versus arm pull down. Tyler has the hula hoop on his site but you can’t post his pay videos - this is a great feedback.  The tab on open hand swings is just gravy for the short game.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by glk

[Rbsiedsc]

On 9/1/2020 at 1:10 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Everyone doing this has been doing it for a week.  Ask a tour player how long it takes to fully implement a new concept.

 

How would you expect more than a general answer when the swing isn’t visible?

 

“Its a sequencing issue” is a perfect answer because that’s what happens when you’re working on something new.  The sequence changes and you have to adapt.

 

On driver, hard to work on any change with driver other than setup.  You get it right with a shorter club and let it filter up.  

Not supposed to work on throw 1 and 2 at the same time.

 

You work on throw 1, get it right and then try and work on throw 2 if it isn’t happening as a reaction.  They happen so close together it’s essentially the same time to the conscious mind.  That’s why you’re trying to get throw 2 as a reaction.
 

 

Just saw this. Makes total sense to me and is visible from what i saw in my latest round. Early on was just hooking everything until the sequence got a little better later on and was definitely better with the shorter clubs. Thanks @MonteScheinblum. I think you will help a lot of golfers get better. If i keep improving with this, I may have to sell my planemate.

[glk]

One last clip that can help,  single arm swings both support a better motion and the NTC - feedback is immediate if you pull down and don’t cast with only the trail arm.  Doesn’t have to be long or full speed.   Bonus is short game use.    I got turned onto these 3 years ago from Tyler ferrell - first sessions were ugly but over the course of a few sessions I was able to pop those little swings out 20 30 yards.  Use it as a warm up.  Can do lead arm too.

 

just another way to practice in support of NTC.

 

 

 

[FatThinNeverIn]

I can only see it for the full price- any help folks?  I'm going in!!!

 

SPECIAL PROMO PRICE of $18.99 until September 15th, 2021. Then it will be priced at $26.99

[Puttersaurus Rex]

2 minutes ago, FatThinNeverIn said:

I can only see it for the full price- any help folks?  I'm going in!!!

 

SPECIAL PROMO PRICE of $18.99 until September 15th, 2021. Then it will be priced at $26.99

It is a typo.  The price is full price, and worth it.

[FatThinNeverIn]

Bought it.  See you on the tour. 

 

Edit: rather than spam the thread, I'll just edit the post to add comments as I watch the videos with 'oh, that's interesting' moments.

 

Oh that's interesting moments:

 

1.  How to do the proper wrist move.  Oh that's interesting and I don't currently do that.

 

2.  My 'full swing' gets club parallel at the top.  The NTC backswing is now 'full' for me.  I can't get it longer.  I'm both inflexible and overweight.  Bad combo, but perhaps this is the backswing length my body needs.  Oh that's interesting.  I have a child's PW to practice indoors now.  Wife won't be happy.

 

3.  The third video was good.  It showed me that I was actually doing my wrist wrong again.  (I may sound cryptic, but don't want to do Monte out of sales if I'm really descriptive)

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by FatThinNeverIn

[Golfbeat]

Question about the Video 7 Transition drill. The transition move is to keep the body closed and to move the pressure forward by an increase of the flex in the lead knee. I find that I need to consciously think about keeping the lead hip back when increasing the flex in the knee (and engage the lead glute during that move). Otherwise, the left hip shoots forward with the knee and I do not seem to have enough time later on to get the left hip back where it needs to be during impact and beyond. The (quick) move from lead toes to lead heel is really difficult for me and I think that on the golf course I do not do it properly (or fast enough)  and I am therefore sliding. Anybody else struggling with this? Maybe it is just my issue. Probably overcomplicating things, as usual.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Golfbeat

[Simpsonia]

12 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

Question about the Video 7 Transition drill. The transition move is to keep the body closed and to move the pressure forward by an increase of the flex in the lead knee. I find that I need to consciously think about keeping the lead hip back when increasing the flex in the knee (and engage the lead glute during that move). Otherwise, the left hip shoots forward with the knee and I do not seem to have enough time later on to get the left hip back where it needs to be during impact and beyond. The (quick) move from lead toes to lead heel is really difficult for me and I think that on the golf course I do not do it properly (or fast enough)  and I am therefore sliding. Anybody else struggling with this? Maybe it is just my issue. Probably overcomplicating things, as usual.

 

I kinda touched on this in the recent EE thread. I found it easier to just not think about the lead heel at all. If I focused on using the ground pressure from the lead toes after the increase in lead knee flex to push the lead hip back to the "wall", weight got onto the heel regardless once I started extending up with the left leg. 

[glk]

40 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

Question about the Video 7 Transition drill. The transition move is to keep the body closed and to move the pressure forward by an increase of the flex in the lead knee. I find that I need to consciously think about keeping the lead hip back when increasing the flex in the knee (and engage the lead glute during that move). Otherwise, the left hip shoots forward with the knee and I do not seem to have enough time later on to get the left hip back where it needs to be during impact and beyond. The (quick) move from lead toes to lead heel is really difficult for me and I think that on the golf course I do not do it properly (or fast enough)  and I am therefore sliding. Anybody else struggling with this? Maybe it is just my issue. Probably overcomplicating things, as usual.

Looked at your new video.  You stay in flexion in backswing which moves your head too much off the ball, etc.   need to fix that before transition piece - the end of the extension in the backswing lead to the transition fall. If it was me, I’d get a online lesson from monte before going down this.   I fell back into this very habit last year and was the issue monte and I addressed in my last two lessons - dec then may follow up.  Makes a world of difference  and may help with your long swing.

 

 

[TourSpoon]

@MonteScheinblum I wish the X factor was never a thing. I am still working on the right hip going towards the target on the backswing. I am getting closer but when stressed revert to a small slide. All the Cast A in the world can't save it although I have gained distance. Any drills to ingrain this feeling? 

[FatThinNeverIn]

Can someone answer me:

 

Does a flat left wrist in the backswing come from twisting the club around it's axis (face getting 'stronger' or 'closed') or is it via an ulnar move?  I can make it look flat either way but I need to know what is right before moving on.

[games]

2 hours ago, FatThinNeverIn said:

Can someone answer me:

 

Does a flat left wrist in the backswing come from twisting the club around it's axis (face getting 'stronger' or 'closed') or is it via an ulnar move?  I can make it look flat either way but I need to know what is right before moving on.

 

The answer is in the very first instructional and drill of the video, available for purchase here:

https://rebelliongolf.com/no-turn_cast/

 

 

[FatThinNeverIn]

16 minutes ago, games said:

 

The answer is in the very first instructional and drill of the video, available for purchase here:

https://rebelliongolf.com/no-turn_cast/

 

 

 

I have the video.  

[bortass]

I had an interesting experience playing this weekend. I warmed up on the range and focused on cast B at the start of my downswing. I was hitting some nice high fades with my 8i. I get on the course and try to avoid swing thoughts which is normal for me. My irons were a mess, low pulls or weak pushes were common. Hole 15, I decide to use the cast B and there's the solid high shot again. I know some people have mentioned that starting the downswing with the cast B thought made a difference for them and I seem to have experienced the same thing.

 

Still a long ways to go for me but it all seems to be very positive.

[DaveLeeNC]

9 hours ago, FatThinNeverIn said:

Can someone answer me:

 

Does a flat left wrist in the backswing come from twisting the club around it's axis (face getting 'stronger' or 'closed') or is it via an ulnar move?  I can make it look flat either way but I need to know what is right before moving on.

 

In my experience and way of thinking, pure ulnar motion does not close the clubface. And neither does twisting the club around its axis (via forearm rotation, I assume) - to my way of thinking/understanding. 

 

But the motion of flexing the wrist (move palm toward the inner forearm while simultaneously rotating the forearm and some ulnar motion (the cast part) is, surprising to me, a kind of natural thing to do very early in the downswing. And even more surprising to me is that this move improves ballstriking and directional control (despite the opinion of my golfing subconscious which believed the ball would go dead left). 

 

dave

[FatThinNeverIn]

First range session.  Took a few vids.  Still not even mastered the no turn but backswing looking better (shorter but not short enough).  I take Monte’s point that this is going to take a while to work on! Cast A making sense but there’s a hell of a lot to do in the downswing.  One piece at a time.  

[vsabre]

1 hour ago, FatThinNeverIn said:

First range session.  Took a few vids.  Still not even mastered the no turn but backswing looking better (shorter but not short enough).  I take Monte’s point that this is going to take a while to work on! Cast A making sense but there’s a hell of a lot to do in the downswing.  One piece at a time.  

Good stuff.  I'm about 1000 balls in now over 4 range sessions and unfortunately only 9 holes since it's a bear getting on anywhere at a time I can swing it. I really need to be on the course with it more since that's the place I'll revert to old habits quicker.  At the latest session this morning I will revert to some old swing faults about 30-40% of the time which is to be expected. As you said there's a lot going here and I've been piecing the checkpoints together up to transition since after that it's just a result that occurs in that tiny space of time.

 

My tempo over 50 years of playing has always been super quick so I get my set-up right, no turn to 7, push hands to 8, cast as best I feel I can, then swing. Even after quite a few reps, I'm not really thinking about anything going on with left knee flex or staying closed longer or Cast B. I may be doing that with some success but I'm just doing mostly backswing work now. Due to my tempo, I have to give some pause at Cast A in the sequencing so I have more success in what unconsciously follows.

 

When it all moves together my driver SS has improved anywhere from 8-10 mph and I've gained my height back on long irons and fairways.  I plan to stick with it and drills, drills, drills.... 

[bortass]

Are any of you seeing predominantly fades?  That seems to be my prevalent shot shape at the moment with a push for a miss especially with irons.

I have not experienced shots going way left for the most part. There have been a few here or there but they are outliers. 

 

 

[FatThinNeverIn]

10 hours ago, vsabre said:

Good stuff.  I'm about 1000 balls in now over 4 range sessions and unfortunately only 9 holes since it's a bear getting on anywhere at a time I can swing it. I really need to be on the course with it more since that's the place I'll revert to old habits quicker.  At the latest session this morning I will revert to some old swing faults about 30-40% of the time which is to be expected. As you said there's a lot going here and I've been piecing the checkpoints together up to transition since after that it's just a result that occurs in that tiny space of time.

 

My tempo over 50 years of playing has always been super quick so I get my set-up right, no turn to 7, push hands to 8, cast as best I feel I can, then swing. Even after quite a few reps, I'm not really thinking about anything going on with left knee flex or staying closed longer or Cast B. I may be doing that with some success but I'm just doing mostly backswing work now. Due to my tempo, I have to give some pause at Cast A in the sequencing so I have more success in what unconsciously follows.

 

When it all moves together my driver SS has improved anywhere from 8-10 mph and I've gained my height back on long irons and fairways.  I plan to stick with it and drills, drills, drills.... 

 

I’m mega quick too.  Looks like we’re at a similar stage.  Video is so important. Gonna nail the backswing and Cast A before worrying about anything else.  I have NEVER made a good transition so there will be 6 months of work there.  Whenever I try to get on my front foot my head follows and I’m in Steep City.  Keep posting progress mate.

[FatThinNeverIn]

5 hours ago, bortass said:

Are any of you seeing predominantly fades?  That seems to be my prevalent shot shape at the moment with a push for a miss especially with irons.

I have not experienced shots going way left for the most part. There have been a few here or there but they are outliers. 

 

 

Ive been struggling with low pulls for a couple of years.  At the range I was hitting some fades and cuts.  However, I have also weakened my right hand grip.  I was hitting some slices and a few pushes.  But I was hitting them high so I didn’t care! 
 

I think pushes are a good sign.  Flip harder with both casts?

Edited October 23, 2020 by FatThinNeverIn

[sprcoop]

14 hours ago, bortass said:

Are any of you seeing predominantly fades?  That seems to be my prevalent shot shape at the moment with a push for a miss especially with irons.

I have not experienced shots going way left for the most part. There have been a few here or there but they are outliers. 

 

 

By casting to 8 this has brought my path more inside out so I have gone from fairly straight to fade being my natural shape to fairly straight to draw with NTC.  Kinda cool.

 

I setup an alignment stick (Eric Cogorno best drill ever style) so that if the club head is outside (ball side) my hands at P6 I will whack it. Filming with HS (240FPS) using NTC shows I'm missing the stick by more inches than normal.