2021 Players Championship (1st major of the year)

[Ferguson]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I think choked is a personal type take.  
 

me - I don’t really care for the word as it rarely is applicable in my opinion.  
 

to me the only time choke is used on myself is if I chicken out.  As In not try my best.  Maybe it’s a mental coping mechanism to not call your own short comings a choke ?  I don’t know.  But I choose to not use that label when I know I did all I could do and it didn’t work.   I suspect Lee feels the same way.  
 

Quick labeling any loss as “ a choke “ simply is refusing to see any positives and focusing on the negative.  In my opinion 

 

 

Westwood is not the story.  

 

JT played a spectacular round on Sunday.   

 

 

Sergio choked. 

 

 

[tsecor]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I think choked is a personal type take.  
 

me - I don’t really care for the word as it rarely is applicable in my opinion.  
 

to me the only time choke is used on myself is if I chicken out.  As In not try my best.  Maybe it’s a mental coping mechanism to not call your own short comings a choke ?  I don’t know.  But I choose to not use that label when I know I did all I could do and it didn’t work.   I suspect Lee feels the same way.  
 

Quick labeling any loss as “ a choke “ simply is refusing to see any positives and focusing on the negative.  In my opinion 

definitely a personal type take.  Im sure Westwood doesnt think he choked....he was very satisfied with second place two weeks in a row........if it were me, after I got over the feeling of choking, id eventually reconcile it the same way in my brain.  it would take months though.  He scrambled like a champ so i do see the positives, but he had to scramble like a madman to have a chance at pars and if he didnt succumb to certain pressures (AKA choking), he probably would have won by 3 shots.    he was bad in relation to the first three rounds and IMO, it was the pressure. 

 

its definitely a personal take on it.....nobody is right or wrong though....we all have our own takes, but you are right....its a personal take based on how i take things....

 

I remember playing in high school and had a 4 shot lead over my opponet with 2 to go....i played 8 + 9 with double double and lost by 1.....i still hate that 25 years later...i choked....i was only 1 over at that point, and for me, being 1 over is amazing...ended up 5 over and losing......cough...hack......choke

 

[bladehunter]

19 minutes ago, tsecor said:

definitely a personal type take.  Im sure Westwood doesnt think he choked....he was very satisfied with second place two weeks in a row........if it were me, after I got over the feeling of choking, id eventually reconcile it the same way in my brain.  it would take months though.  He scrambled like a champ so i do see the positives, but he had to scramble like a madman to have a chance at pars and if he didnt succumb to certain pressures (AKA choking), he probably would have won by 3 shots.    he was bad in relation to the first three rounds and IMO, it was the pressure. 

 

its definitely a personal take on it.....nobody is right or wrong though....we all have our own takes, but you are right....its a personal take based on how i take things....

 

I remember playing in high school and had a 4 shot lead over my opponet with 2 to go....i played 8 + 9 with double double and lost by 1.....i still hate that 25 years later...i choked....i was only 1 over at that point, and for me, being 1 over is amazing...ended up 5 over and losing......cough...hack......choke

 

Oh I get the feeling.  But in order to not let it eat me I choose to say “ well. That simply shows my ceiling hasn’t been met “  otherwise I wouldn’t have had the lead to begin with.  
 

I myself had a 5 shot lead in my club championship last year.  On 13 tee box.  And in the end I lost by 1.  Kid who was chasing made 3 birdies from 13-18 and I clipped a branch off 18 tee into the hazard and made double.  But I had a putt to tie.  Missed it on the high side lip.  
 

This was the moment I somehow learned to not see the event as a choke.  I came back to the clubhouse and was smiling. And people who came to comfort  me were in shock.  They couldn’t believe I wasn’t upset.   This wasn’t like me.  But my brain knew that I had more than that kid did. And  I knew that he knew it too, I could see it on his face.  I just had 2 bad holes (13 and 18) and paid for it.  The kid who clipped me is being pursued by several D1 schools including UGA , and this 41 year old who hasn’t played all his life , and doesn’t play daily like he does , gave him all he wanted for two days.  I didn’t see choke  because I grew that day. A lot.  And I’m itching for the rematch.  

Edited March 16, 2021 by bladehunter

[tsecor]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Oh I get the feeling.  But in order to not let it eat me I choose to say “ well. That simply shows my ceiling hasn’t been met “  otherwise I wouldn’t have had the lead to begin with.  
 

I myself had a 5 shot lead in my club championship last year.  On 13 tee box.  And in the end I lost by 1.  Kid who was chasing made 3 birdies from 13-18 and I clipped a branch off 18 tee into the hazard and made double.  But I had a putt to tie.  Missed it on the high side lip.  
 

This was the moment I somehow learned to not see the event as a choke.  I came back to the clubhouse and was smiling. And people who came to comfort  me were in shock.  They couldn’t believe I wasn’t upset.   This wasn’t like me.  But my brain knew that I had more than that kid did. And  I knew that he knew it too, I could see it on his face.  I just had 2 bad holes (13 and 18) and paid for it.  The kid who clipped me is being pursued by several D1 schools including UGA , and this 41 year old who hasn’t played all his life , and doesn’t play daily like he does , gave him all he wanted for two days.  I didn’t see choke  because I grew that day. A lot.  And I’m itching for the rematch.  

I wish my brain wrked like that.....id be in a corner for a week with a binky in my mouth trying to remember my own name......

[bladehunter]

25 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

Westwood is not the story.  

 

JT played a spectacular round on Sunday.   

 

 

Sergio choked. 

 

 

To be fair , Sergio being up there was more of a fluke and the decline was expected.  His putting is sad.  It’s painful in my opinion to watch a guy control the ball so well and not be able to gain enough mental Strength to roll a putt.  That’s what it is.  A mental issue.  Putting doesn’t require strength or much dexterity, but it does require trust and letting go.  

[bladehunter]

Just now, tsecor said:

I wish my brain wrked like that.....id be in a corner for a week with a binky in my mouth trying to remember my own name......

I used to be the type that would have reacted in anger , left the club without turning in a card and not come back for a month.   All in anger at myself.  But it was a freeing feeling because I knew I had tried my best.  it just didn’t bounce my way.  
 

now don’t get me wrong. I have a fire in me to go higher.and it’s a round by round battle to keep on this path .   But I realized that I can both accept the current outcomes as the price that is owed in order to grow and also not be satisfied with my current level of play or closing.  Sounds like a contradictory statement , and I used to agree that it was, but I’ve learned that it can be separate. 
 

 

[Ferguson]

23 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Oh I get the feeling.  But in order to not let it eat me I choose to say “ well. That simply shows my ceiling hasn’t been met “  otherwise I wouldn’t have had the lead to begin with.  
 

I myself had a 5 shot lead in my club championship last year.  On 13 tee box.  And in the end I lost by 1.  Kid who was chasing made 3 birdies from 13-18 and I clipped a branch off 18 tee into the hazard and made double.  But I had a putt to tie.  Missed it on the high side lip.  
 

This was the moment I somehow learned to not see the event as a choke.  I came back to the clubhouse and was smiling. And people who came to comfort  me were in shock.  They couldn’t believe I wasn’t upset.   This wasn’t like me.  But my brain knew that I had more than that kid did. And  I knew that he knew it too, I could see it on his face.  I just had 2 bad holes (13 and 18) and paid for it.  The kid who clipped me is being pursued by several D1 schools including UGA , and this 41 year old who hasn’t played all his life , and doesn’t play daily like he does , gave him all he wanted for two days.  I didn’t see choke  because I grew that day. A lot.  And I’m itching for the rematch.  

 

Do you feel he went into birdie-chasing mode and you went into lead-protection mode?   

 

 

I had a similar situation in 2012 for my flight.  I had a 3 stroke lead with three to play and only won by a single shot.  Holes 1-15 were smooth, clean, aggressive.  In retrospect, I suppose I went into "not to lose" mode on 16, 17 and 18.   The shots were good but not nearly as aggressive.   And I guess him "almost" catching up made the experience better for me.  The guy I beat was an Word not allowed hole. 

 

 

 

You'll get him next time.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Ferguson

[tsecor]

9 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I used to be the type that would have reacted in anger , left the club without turning in a card and not come back for a month.   All in anger at myself.  But it was a freeing feeling because I knew I had tried my best.  it just didn’t bounce my way.  
 

now don’t get me wrong. I have a fire in me to go higher.and it’s a round by round battle to keep on this path .   But I realized that I can both accept the current outcomes as the price that is owed in order to grow and also not be satisfied with my current level of play or closing.  Sounds like a contradictory statement , and I used to agree that it was, but I’ve learned that it can be separate. 
 

 

thats great....glad you had that breakthrough moment....I blame my parents 🙂  

 

i internalize and compartmentalize everything so if that were me, i would have congradulated that kid, enjoyed the time with everyone and i could go have a beer with you, talk about families and kids and golf or whatever and have a great time, but in private, id beat myself up mentally for a while....

[Kaysquare]

On 3/14/2021 at 10:46 AM, gvogel said:

That is the wrong Helen Storey.

 

Westwood's caddy/fiance is a fitness instructor.

Thanks for the correction.......two Helen Storeys!  In pics they don't look all that different either.   I guess he's been with Helen for quite a while now.  Good luck to them!

 

[Arn]

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

Sergio choked. 

Choking would be acting out of the norm. Sergio did what he’s always done.

[MUNIGRIT]

2 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

Westwood is not the story.  

 

JT played a spectacular round on Sunday.   

 

 

Sergio choked. 

 

 

I dont think Sergio choked, he just isn't a good enough putter to win anymore and only gets in contention when he happens to stumble a few in. I dont know about anyone else but I cringed everytime they showed him putting. I had him in a pool but lucky for me he did just enough along with Harman to win for me.

[Greg_B]

2 hours ago, tsecor said:

I remember playing in high school and had a 4 shot lead over my opponet with 2 to go....i played 8 + 9 with double double and lost by 1.....i still hate that 25 years later...i choked....i was only 1 over at that point, and for me, being 1 over is amazing...ended up 5 over and losing......cough...hack......choke

 

 

One would think that with that experience you would know what choking is and what it isn't. Westwood made every knee-knocker putt when it counted on Sunday except for one and did not "choke".

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

 

Do you feel he went into birdie-chasing mode and you went into lead-protection mode?   

 

 

I had a similar situation in 2012 for my flight.  I had a 3 stroke lead with three to play and only won by a single shot.  Holes 1-15 were smooth, clean, aggressive.  In retrospect, I suppose I went into "not to lose" mode on 16, 17 and 18.   The shots were good but not nearly as aggressive.   And I guess him "almost" catching up made the experience better for me.  The guy I beat was an Word not allowed hole. 

 

 

 

You'll get him next time.  

 

 

 

 

 

Partly.  Yes.  
 

he had a gallery following him.  Parents friends etc. I heard his mom say “ get off your butt and go get me some birdies youre 5 behind  “ as we came to 13 tee.  That’s also whne I realized the lead I had. I didn’t know the score until then.  Hadn’t come up for air as sir Nick would say. But I had just 1 putted the last 5 greens.  So it was clearly in the “ tunnel” as I call it.     
 

13 is a par 5.  And I committed  the cardinal sin and bogeyed it.  He made a 2 putt birdie.  So after that.  Yes. I was in full on grind and protect mode I think.  And did ok until 18.  I holed putts on 15 16 and 17 of at least 6-7 feet in length for par.  And drove it great on 16 and 17 which is a very hard driving hole stretch.  Ironically 18 is a forced layup off the tee par 5.  Forced 3 shot hole. So I puked a layup to lose.  
 

what I learned was to recognize when the tunnel ends , and focus on being smart but remaining aggressive.  If I had my time to go over. The tee ball on 18 wouldn’t have been a long iron through the shoot. I’d hit 3 wood or driver with a hard fade.  Something  I’d have to swing hard at.  The miss for that would only be a pitch out.  It would automatically put you past the hazard off the tee on the right.    It’s like a short chute shot at 18 Augusta.  Just about 200 yards instead of 280 .  But you can miss right or left past 200 and survive.  But that’s why it’s called a learning experience.  .  

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, tsecor said:

thats great....glad you had that breakthrough moment....I blame my parents 🙂  

 

i internalize and compartmentalize everything so if that were me, i would have congradulated that kid, enjoyed the time with everyone and i could go have a beer with you, talk about families and kids and golf or whatever and have a great time, but in private, id beat myself up mentally for a while....

Oh no. I get that.  I do. I mostly internalize.  Believe it or not in social settings I’m known as the quiet one.  Almost to the point of being weird. Or “ scary “ as my wife’s cousin says.  She was afraid of me until she knew me apparently.  But I have/had a boiling point where it will come out.  Abe because of my most other quiet makeup , folks don’t know how to handle it when I become vocal.  And I often do not know how to handle it either.  Which is what has pushed me to not beat myself up.  I still do mind you.  I’m just saying I’ve taken the edge off and am working hard to realize reality vs emotion.  If that makes any sense.  It’s not an easy thing for a passionate competitor.  

[golfortennis]

43 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Partly.  Yes.  
 

he had a gallery following him.  Parents friends etc. I heard his mom say “ get off your butt and go get me some birdies youre 5 behind  “ as we came to 13 tee.  That’s also whne I realized the lead I had. I didn’t know the score until then.  Hadn’t come up for air as sir Nick would say. But I had just 1 putted the last 5 greens.  So it was clearly in the “ tunnel” as I call it.     
 

13 is a par 5.  And I committed  the cardinal sin and bogeyed it.  He made a 2 putt birdie.  So after that.  Yes. I was in full on grind and protect mode I think.  And did ok until 18.  I holed putts on 15 16 and 17 of at least 6-7 feet in length for par.  And drove it great on 16 and 17 which is a very hard driving hole stretch.  Ironically 18 is a forced layup off the tee par 5.  Forced 3 shot hole. So I puked a layup to lose.  
 

what I learned was to recognize when the tunnel ends , and focus on being smart but remaining aggressive.  If I had my time to go over. The tee ball on 18 wouldn’t have been a long iron through the shoot. I’d hit 3 wood or driver with a hard fade.  Something  I’d have to swing hard at.  The miss for that would only be a pitch out.  It would automatically put you past the hazard off the tee on the right.    It’s like a short chute shot at 18 Augusta.  Just about 200 yards instead of 280 .  But you can miss right or left past 200 and survive.  But that’s why it’s called a learning experience.  .  

 

Almost wonder if his mom thought putting the lead out loud might get into your head.  Don't think I could ever do it myself, but it would be a gamesmanship tactic I could see someone pulling.

 

[bladehunter]

27 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Almost wonder if his mom thought putting the lead out loud might get into your head.  Don't think I could ever do it myself, but it would be a gamesmanship tactic I could see someone pulling.

 

Maybe so.  I don’t know.  I’m the unicorn old guy newbie.  She didn’t know that.  So maybe she thought she had to get to the veteran. Not knowing that I’m not one. At any rate , I’m not a stranger to competition at a high level in other sports.  And I knew better than to take my foot off the pedal.  But .... it’s also a very mentally fatiguing game.  It’s not like any other animal I’ve played. You can’t just muscle out of it like I could in track or basketball.  Hustle only goes so far.  You have to also think correctly for the situation.  Fun and absolutely infuriating at the same time. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by bladehunter

[tsecor]

1 hour ago, Greg_B said:

 

One would think that with that experience you would know what choking is and what it isn't. Westwood made every knee-knocker putt when it counted on Sunday except for one and did not "choke".

opinions vary and thats ok....

[golfortennis]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Maybe so.  I don’t know.  I’m the unicorn old guy newbie.  She didn’t know that.  So maybe she thought she had to get to the veteran. Not knowing that I’m not one. At any rate , I’m not a stranger to competition at a high level in other sports.  And I knew better than to take my foot off the pedal.  But .... it’s also a very mentally fatiguing game.  It’s not like any other animal I’ve played. You can’t just muscle out of it like I could in track or basketball.  Hustle only goes so far.  You have to also think correctly for the situation.  Fun and absolutely infuriating at the same time. 

 

Yeah but this game is so mental.  MOst other high level competition there is either noise or some other action that allows you to shut your mind off.  Not golf.  Unless you can have a conversation about a totally different topic, you can spend the whole time thinking about your shot, your current round, all of it.  In some ways the big benefit of having a caddy is someone who can purposely bring up last night's ball game, or the hot rod in the parking lot, or something else that takes you away from it for a moment.  

 

I think that even though you may not have actually said "ok, I'm good let's take this home" to yourself, I still think subconsciously, going from not knowing to knowing has *some* impact.  I always try to not to know my score, but I don't do it nearly as well as I want to.  I had two putts over a mound to a pin just over it for my best round ever, and I knew what I was putting for.  It is a completely different animal, yes.