Dialing back iron distance for consistency?

[RoyalMustang]

I just had another lesson and was striking the ball really well: I mostly have eliminated the active arm movement and early extension I had a few weeks back. Now, I am really starting with a low hip drive and shoulder turn, and the results couldn't be better compared to a few weeks ago. 

 

My coach wants me to keep an "easy" swing in mind: 3rd gear, no more. I was hitting the ball a fair distance; low 90's swing speed 7-iron, mid 120s ball speed.  He thinks that is too much, as I introduce error and when I catch it really clean, I have a 190 yard+ 7-iron on my hands.  He says that I won't lose much distance, if any really, but that he wants to see my consistency improve before I crank it up again, if at all.  He wants loose, relaxed, yet tight through the core and precise. 

 

has anyone else tried this?  Gone from, say a 175-180 7-iron to a 165-170 but more controlled, consistent swing?  Any dis-advantages?  I was hitting a 8-iron today 155 instead of my normal 165-170 and the dispersion was definitely tighter than normal.  Every single strike was at least a 7.5/10; no bad misses.  Plenty that would have left me with a very makeable birdie putt out on the course.  

 

Should each swing be 70% instead of 85-90%?  The only good golfers I really see are on TV and many of them swing so damn hard all of the time.  

 

 

 

 

[enders.seb]

100%. It doesn't matter how far a "full" iron goes. The point of an iron is to go as far as you need it to go with the height/spin/curvature you need to get it near the hole. If you're more accurate hitting a 7 iron from 165 than you are a full 8 iron, then absolutely you should be hitting 7 iron. Tour pros rarely hit irons full. They all have a stock yardage they like and then have the ability to step on one or pull back if they need to. Also when you see a tour pro really step on an iron chances are they really need maximum spin and height to stop the ball on really fast/hard greens that they play every week. Not something 95% of us really need to worry about

[GLF4EVR]

What you are watching on Tv is the pros & there is a major reason they are pros & we are not.

 

Most of them actually use 80 to 90% of the time.  My younger brother used to be at Palm Desert with many of the pros & instructors many years back & that was one of the many things he told me that I still remember.  However, will agree that many of today's pros look like they swing right out of their shoes.

 

Another way to look at hitting the ball would be approach shots.  Do you want to feel great about how far you just hit the ball & having to be scrambling for par....or have an accurate shot with having a decent chance at birdie?

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

I found it shocking that I lose only about 5-10 m when feeling like I swing at 60%. 
 

Also, I had a few tricky approaches lately, where I just couldn’t miss one one side, and I took more club and went 75% (feel). Hit two of the best shots ever, and it got me thinking, what’s in it for me when I swing 100% every time? It’s more fun and feels more athletic, but consistency suffers. Damn the male ego. 

[RoyalMustang]

1 minute ago, LukeDonaldsTiger said:

I found it shocking that I lose only about 5-10 m when feeling like I swing at 60%. 
 

Also, I had a few tricky approaches lately, where I just couldn’t miss one one side, and I took more club and went 75% (feel). Hit two of the best shots ever, and it got me thinking, what’s in it for me when I swing 100% every time? It’s more fun and feels more athletic, but consistency suffers. Damn the male ego. 

 

yeah, that was me today.  My coach was watching me hit the 6-iron and said "swing easy". Once I swung he said "see, that was like a 1st or 2nd gear swing for you-it still went 150.  You hit the ball as well as you possibly could have".  

 

Not that I need to be in 1st or 2nd, but I got the point: those swings will give me a lot more birdie opportunities.  

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

4 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:Once I swung he said "see, that was like a 1st or 2nd gear swing for you-it still went 150.  You hit the ball as well as you possibly could have"  

See, and that’s the difference between us and the pros. I watched a PGA tournament the other day, and they showed Oosthuizen with a 5i, and said “that’s gonna be a big 5i for Louis here”. So I was curious how such a smooth swinger looks when he goes after it. It looked astonishingly slow, but somehow “firm”, and he flew the green. Just didn’t look anything like me when I “go after it”. 
My point is, a lot of amateurs’ 100% is far less effective than their 70%. I suspect I get maximum return out of my wedges up to 8i, with anything longer than that it’s still a lot of wasted energy. Guess that’s true for most of us mid cappers. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I'm going to take a somewhat different tack, you certainly shouldn't be swinging at irons out of your shoes/off balance but my goal is to still hit them pretty aggressively on a stock shot, as far as percent I would say 90-95%. If I'm slowing my tempo it's typically to decrease spin or lower trajectory.

[Pepperturbo]

Can not say what it should be for others.

 

Being a feel player I have to guess at these percentages, but it makes perfect sense to dial back one's swing speed.  Too many people swing out of their shoes with every club, leaving nothing in the tank.  You have to be able to push one or pull back with each club and know those distances.

 

My standard swing = standard yardage per club, or about 85% of max.  6i that's 160yds

When I push it, I am using 100%+ of my swing capacity 170yds

When I pull back for less than standard yardage, I am at about 70%. 150yds.

 

@RoyalMustang Most tour players have the 3 yardages as I mention above, and each has a different purpose.  However, standard yardage and push yardage are the ones most used.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[enders.seb]

Here are Rory's stock yardages from earlier this season. He's the 2nd or 3rd longest player on the PGA Tour. Your full 8 iron is very close to his. Keep in mind that he's around 185 ball speed with driver and can push it to low 190s if he needs to. It's probably safe to say that he could hit his irons further if he wanted or needed to. Stock yardages should be comfortable, not max.

Edited April 15, 2021 by enders.seb

[ColoradoMike]

I've been working on this as well. When I'm swinging too hard the dreaded sway creeps in and my contact suffers. The 75% swing improves my contact. One shot in particular, the 260-270yd 3 wood, I swing out my a**. Never fails and my contact is crap. 

[straightshot7]

I think Tiger once said something along the lines of "My dad told me to swing as hard as I want as long as I can hold my finish, and then swing a little bit softer than that".

 

So probably around 85% of max.

 

I think that's a pretty good rule for your stock shot. You are not babying it, but you are also not maxing out. And you must keep your balance and hold your finish (except maybe with the driver where it's okay to fall back a little bit sometimes). 

 

However, each shot is different in terms of if you are in between yardages, where the pin is, what the wind is, what slope is there, etc.

 

So you will have to gauge swing strength from iron shot to iron shot, in my opinion. 

A shot with a back hole location, where you are in between clubs, may call for a low knock down of the stronger iron, for example.

Sometimes you may need to Max out your swing, in order to carry a tree in front of you. The goal is to practice enough to where some artistry can take control on the course. 

 

This just comes with lots of rounds and learning what shots you need to get the best results.

Edited April 15, 2021 by straightshot7

[BdaGolfer]

There's a difference between 100% speed and 100% effort, and they're not linear. As long as you maintain balance, rhythm, center face contact and stick the finish then it's not too fast. Find that speed, then do it consistently and the numbers will be whatever they are. 

 

Edited to add contact quality, the important part.

Edited April 15, 2021 by BdaGolfer

[Barfolomew]

I was at range yesterday.... watching guys swing really hard almost tells you they don't score well vs the guy hitting butter with control and balance you know they have more potential to score.

 

Regarding pros distances..... I have to always remind myself that their clubs are so PERFECTLY fitted to them to the millimeter and the model is the absolute best one even if forced to one brand, they try sooo many shafts and clubs even within the same model lol. It's just on a different level, even if you physically hit the same they will always have the club advantage..... heck I've never been fitted and play random used clubs that I've gotten used to, my putter doesn't fit me well as I like a very low lie angle so had to drill out the hole and JB weld the shaft back in and still manage par golf..... Cleveland wedges are my only new clubs only tried a launch monitor for giggles at a box store for only a couple hits and these guys live on launch monitors and tweak their clubs as much as needed.  Even rich amateurs that have all the goodies are not on the same level as pros clubs... "hey Bobby lets try 1 degree lie difference for this mornings practice then 2 degrees for the afternoon and see what's better in the today's wind....." lol

Edited April 15, 2021 by Barfolomew

[Cliffy2020]

Answer to the title-  YES

Reason for the answer - quality of strike goes up

Wish I would have listened and learned this lesson in my 20’s

[betarhoalphadelta]

54 minutes ago, BdaGolfer said:

There's a difference between 100% speed and 100% effort, and they're not linear. As long as you maintain balance, rhythm, center face contact and stick the finish then it's not too fast. Find that speed, then do it consistently and the numbers will be whatever they are. 

 

This is where I am. We've talked @RoyalMustang in other threads, and I think you're a bit ahead of me regarding dropping your cap--I hope to catch up 😉

 

If 100% effort = 100% swing speed, it's not true that 80% effort = 80% swing speed. I honestly feel when I'm swinging "easy", i.e. 80% effort, that I'm ending up around 97% swing speed based on how far the ball flies, and it's WAY more consistent. 

 

[pinhigh27]

2 hours ago, enders.seb said:

Here are Rory's stock yardages from earlier this season. He's the 2nd or 3rd longest player on the PGA Tour. Your full 8 iron is very close to his. Keep in mind that he's around 185 ball speed with driver and can push it to low 190s if he needs to. It's probably safe to say that he could hit his irons further if he wanted or needed to. Stock yardages should be comfortable, not max.

No one is comfortably hitting a 4 iron 240 or 8 iron 175. They swing hard at irons, just not out of control. 

[MonteScheinblum]

Smashing mid and long irons is fine if you can control distance.

 

Smashing short Irons is a disaster.  Every golf school and playing lesson I give, there are always multiple people who are significantly shorter than me off the tee.  30-60 yards...they are hitting the same, or even less club than me into the green. I have them hit 2 more clubs than their “stock” and the vast majority improve proximity on the spot.  The ones that don’t are the ones that tend to keep their backswing long and slow through impact.

 

Shorter swing and less speed is almost universally successful long term when it comes to dialing in 7 on down.

 

Im 120+/180+ with driver and here are my yardages.  125/185 on occasional good days

 

2-240

4-225

5-210

6-195

7-180

8-165

9-150

PW-135

GW-120

SW-105

LW-90

 

Can I hit a PW 150-160?  Yes and without looking like I’m a hernia waiting to happen.  Spin and trajectory control are atrocious.

 

I can hit a 7 close to 200 without looking like I’m over swinging, but proximity to the hole versus a 5/6 and way worse.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by MonteScheinblum

[extrastiff]

4 hours ago, enders.seb said:

Here are Rory's stock yardages from earlier this season. He's the 2nd or 3rd longest player on the PGA Tour. Your full 8 iron is very close to his. Keep in mind that he's around 185 ball speed with driver and can push it to low 190s if he needs to. It's probably safe to say that he could hit his irons further if he wanted or needed to. Stock yardages should be comfortable, not max.

I’m pretty sure I heard Rory saying he swings close to max effort, but he understands a lot of other people don’t. I might be mistaken on if it was him or not, it was someone really good and pretty long.

 

But I would agree that the majority of golfers, and definitely the majority of pros, are not swing it all out

[phizzy30]

I can hit a 7 iron over 190 when I go full bore at it.  I almost never find a situation when I have to do this.  I usually swing about 80% which gives me enough distance, increases the chances of a solid strike and ensures a square club face most of the time.  Irons are all about distance control not hit it as far as you can.  Trying to go after an iron leads to open club face, increased chance of a mis hit and too much spin.  The only time I really go after it is when I have my UDI in hand and I need to get to a par 5 in two and I have about 250ish. 

Edited April 16, 2021 by phizzy30

[phizzy30]

37 minutes ago, extrastiff said:

I’m pretty sure I heard Rory saying he swings close to max effort, but he understands a lot of other people don’t. I might be mistaken on if it was him or not, it was someone really good and pretty long.

 

But I would agree that the majority of golfers, and definitely the majority of pros, are not swing it all out

I haven't seen Rory go past 186 mph ball speed in any tournament.  There's a video of him where he's on flight scope I believe and it showed his ball speed at 191 mph.  Tony Finau had a video where his was 201 mph with a longer swing.  Bryson also has vids where he's over 200 mph but you don't see those type of numbers out on the course.  The longest hitters on tour all have that 6th gear but usually cruise in 4th and 5th.  As you know already, these guys have their tournament swings where they are trying to get the ball in play and not spray one 50+yards out of bounds going balls to the wall with their range swing. 

[xmanhockey7]

Just hit your normal stock shot and stick with it. When people “swing easy” or “step on it” their dispersion patterns get bigger. A bit like Monte mentioned most people don’t know how far they actually hit their clubs. If your 7i is a 180 club you’d better be able to hit it 190 5% of the time you just hit one great. 

[phizzy30]

14 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

I think Tiger once said something along the lines of "My dad told me to swing as hard as I want as long as I can hold my finish, and then swing a little bit softer than that".

 

So probably around 85% of max.

 

I think that's a pretty good rule for your stock shot. You are not babying it, but you are also not maxing out. And you must keep your balance and hold your finish (except maybe with the driver where it's okay to fall back a little bit sometimes). 

 

However, each shot is different in terms of if you are in between yardages, where the pin is, what the wind is, what slope is there, etc.

 

So you will have to gauge swing strength from iron shot to iron shot, in my opinion. 

A shot with a back hole location, where you are in between clubs, may call for a low knock down of the stronger iron, for example.

Sometimes you may need to Max out your swing, in order to carry a tree in front of you. The goal is to practice enough to where some artistry can take control on the course. 

 

This just comes with lots of rounds and learning what shots you need to get the best results.

I find that holding your finish after the swing increases the chances of catching it flush.  Has to do mainly with balance.  If you are falling all over the place, the fat or thin shot comes more into play.  This is why I emphasize balance work in the gym with my clients especially the ones that play sports for a living. 

[pinhigh27]

18 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

I find that holding your finish after the swing increases the chances of catching it flush.  Has to do mainly with balance.  If you are falling all over the place, the fat or thin shot comes more into play.  This is why I emphasize balance work in the gym with my clients especially the ones that play sports for a living. 

Why would holding something after the ball is gone have any effect? The ability to hold the finish is secondary to a good sequence and not being out of control. 

 

It doesn't have to do with proprioception or any of the junk that people claim and have people stand on bosu balls, it's just having a good swing that works. 

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

16 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

I just had another lesson and was striking the ball really well: I mostly have eliminated the active arm movement and early extension I had a few weeks back. Now, I am really starting with a low hip drive and shoulder turn, and the results couldn't be better compared to a few weeks ago. 

 

My coach wants me to keep an "easy" swing in mind: 3rd gear, no more. I was hitting the ball a fair distance; low 90's swing speed 7-iron, mid 120s ball speed.  He thinks that is too much, as I introduce error and when I catch it really clean, I have a 190 yard+ 7-iron on my hands.  He says that I won't lose much distance, if any really, but that he wants to see my consistency improve before I crank it up again, if at all.  He wants loose, relaxed, yet tight through the core and precise. 

 

has anyone else tried this?  Gone from, say a 175-180 7-iron to a 165-170 but more controlled, consistent swing?  Any dis-advantages?  I was hitting a 8-iron today 155 instead of my normal 165-170 and the dispersion was definitely tighter than normal.  Every single strike was at least a 7.5/10; no bad misses.  Plenty that would have left me with a very makeable birdie putt out on the course.  

 

Should each swing be 70% instead of 85-90%?  The only good golfers I really see are on TV and many of them swing so damn hard all of the time.  

It’s difficult to compare the iron numbers and even loft, but backing off to “3rd gear” sounds about right.

 

Irons are generally used for approaches, and shots from them should be as accurate as possible.

[phizzy30]

7 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

Why would holding something after the ball is gone have any effect? The ability to hold the finish is secondary to a good sequence and not being out of control. 

 

It doesn't have to do with proprioception or any of the junk that people claim and have people stand on bosu balls, it's just having a good swing that works. 

Disagree.  Tell me why many pro athletes do balance work on the bosu ball.   It's not for craps and giggles.  Do you know any pro golfers that always fall back on their feet and make excellent contact?  Didn't think so.  They all have great balance.  You have anomalies like Bubba but even he poses after he hits his irons.  Most if not all pro golfers that work out do balance work.  I have a + cap guy and my buddy who's on the Mackenzie Tour that I train that do balance work in the gym 3x a week.  Also have a client who has offers for a full ride at 5 colleges for baseball. 

[pinhigh27]

They wear magnetic bracelets and plumb-bob too. them doing something doesn't necessarily validate it. 

 

They don't fall back on their feet bc their swings are in control, it's a result of the things before it. They are fully capable of swinging out of their shoes and losing balance too, they just don't.

 

Bosu ball is junk plain and simple, it's training your body to limit force because it feels instability. Its a protective mechanism so you don't injure yourself.  It's inherently paradoxical as well as dangerous. Golf and literally all other sports or athletic activities is played on the firm ground, not a semicircular ball. 

 

 

 

[extrastiff]

10 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I haven't seen Rory go past 186 mph ball speed in any tournament.  There's a video of him where he's on flight scope I believe and it showed his ball speed at 191 mph.  Tony Finau had a video where his was 201 mph with a longer swing.  Bryson also has vids where he's over 200 mph but you don't see those type of numbers out on the course.  The longest hitters on tour all have that 6th gear but usually cruise in 4th and 5th.  As you know already, these guys have their tournament swings where they are trying to get the ball in play and not spray one 50+yards out of bounds going balls to the wall with their range swing. 

Right, but the conversation is all out vs dialed back, and I’m pretty sure Rory said his irons ,not driver. 
 

All and all I agree they all have more so to speak, my point was that I remember a really good player, I think Rory, say they swing their irons pretty much full out, it feels more natural, while they understand others (I think they even said “most” others) like dustin dial it back to 75-90 percent.  To him (or the other person who actually said it), they feel pretty much “all out” on irons. I wish I remembered the video 

 

of course, all these guys can happy Gilmore it, all out is never “all out”

Edited April 16, 2021 by extrastiff

[pinhigh27]

Making things harder doesn't necessarily make them better or mean they do something good for you. I could try to do a push up on 1 finger but that doesn't really translate to any mainstream athletic activity, it's just more difficult. 

 

Artificially limiting the stability of your body basically forces it to freak out and limit force production which is the complete antithesis of athletic training. If anything it limits force production because you are constantly telling your body " hey buddy you're in a bad spot, we need to shut this down." You condition it to shut down and produce less force to not injure itself and feel more stable. 

 

 

[phizzy30]

5 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

They wear magnetic bracelets and plumb-bob too. them doing something doesn't necessarily validate it. 

 

They don't fall back on their feet bc their swings are in control, it's a result of the things before it. They are fully capable of swinging out of their shoes and losing balance too, they just don't.

 

Bosu ball is junk plain and simple, it's training your body to limit force because it feels instability. Its a protective mechanism so you don't injure yourself.  It's inherently paradoxical as well as dangerous. Golf and literally all other sports or athletic activities is played on the firm ground, not a semicircular ball. 

 

 

 

Ok bro, it seems as though you know a lot more than me on this topic.  Balance work helps greatly with hip stability which is a must for golf.  I train people from all walks of life for a living.  Many highly regarded trainers also do balance work with their clients as well with bosu balls and other equipment but you seem to know more than they do. 

[extrastiff]

4 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

Making things harder doesn't necessarily make them better or mean they do something good for you. I could try to do a push up on 1 finger but that doesn't really translate to any mainstream athletic activity, it's just more difficult. 

 

Artificially limiting the stability of your body basically forces it to freak out and limit force production which is the complete antithesis of athletic training. If anything it limits force production because you are constantly telling your body " hey buddy you're in a bad spot, we need to shut this down." You condition it to shut down and produce less force to not injure itself and feel more stable. 

 

 

I would love to see some research on “imbalance” training being a completely negative training technique. Only thing I can find is that it is not good for “all workouts”. Even those articles seem to acknowledge it has benefits in certain applications