Arccos Rate Hike and Why I'm Returning my Unit

[larson92]

Bottom Line Up Front: Arccos is less useful, more cumbersome to use, and more expensive that I had hoped for.

 

Disclaimer: I've only played two rounds with it (and had three emails with tech support).

 

I recently purchased the Arccos bundle (i.e. sensor pack and Arccos Link), and this is why I'm returning it:

 

1. When I signed up for my "free" year of service (that came with the bundle), I had to agree to be charged $119 to renew at the end of the free year.  Obviously, I can cancel before that---but this means that they are hiking the base subscription price by $20.  With how much I play golf, that equates to almost $10 per round -- but more importantly, it shows that Arccos will milk their addicted customers for every penny they think they can get away with.  (The following year, it could be $149.)  For me, $119 is at least two (and possibly three) rounds of golf.

 

2. The system misses a lot of putts, requiring you to manually enter them.  (This is especially true on short putts.)  I've tried this both with and without the "improved" setting, but the improved setting seems to be concentrated on removing false detects and not on getting lost detects that would have otherwise been missed.  I've also followed the guidance to stand still for at least 1 second before putting to maximize the chances that Arccos will detect the put.  In spite of this, missed putts have been common and have to be added during the round because I've tried afterwards both in the app and through the website (using multiple browsers) and the added putts didn't take.  (So much for not having to carry your phone because you have the Arccos Link.)

 

3. The only putting data that Arccos seems to use is number of putts and distance to the pin for your first putt.  To get the distance, you have to mark the pin position with the app or by pressing a button on the Link.  (I found pressing the button on the link to be surprisingly awkward since the button press isn't like a real button and there is no feedback.)  The other option is to trust that someone has already marked the pin positon for the day using their app (or Link).

 

4. Arccos doesn't count strokes (other than putts) unless you are at least 10 yds away from your last shot.  This is great for handling mulligans, but it doesn't work well for duffs or sand shots that leave the ball in the bunker.  You can teach Siri to add a duff for you (when you ask her to) or you can add it in the app, but you can only do this when you are within 10 yds of where the stroke happened.  You cannot do this after the round.  (You might be able to adjust by adding a penalty shot instead after the round, but for certain you cannot teach Siri to add the stroke for you unless you are still at the scene of the crime.  This was confirmed by Arccos tech support.)

 

5. Penalty shots can be added manually, but if you (for example) lose your ball or hit one in the water, Arccos still shows your shot distance from where you hit your ball from to where you hit your next ball from.  Supposedly, they don't count this yardage in your stats--so this isn't a big deal but it can look kind of funny.

 

6. I haven't really learned much from Arccos that I didn't already know.  Sure, I need to work on my drives and approach shots, followed by my putting.  And my distance control on full shots is bad.  No surprises there.

 

7. Despite the promotion to the contrary, you still need to access the app during your round--even when you have the Arccos Link.  Barring that, you at a minimum need to keep score elsewhere and keep track of all of your duffs, penalties, and putts so that you can correct Arccos after the round.

 

8. I've found myself worried about doing things that might "screw up" Arccos data--for example, putting with a 7-iron because I don't want to go back to my bag and get my putter.  Sure, you can go back in and fix what Arccos calls a chip to a putt, but you have to remember (and take the time) to do it.

 

9. Since the sensors are activated by UV light and the club being head-down, I worry that using a club on the range for an hour (e.g. working with my 7-iron) will drain the battery in the sensor and shorten the time before I need to purchase more sensors.  (Note that I THINK that every time you purchase a new set of sensors (currently $179), you get a year of service with it.  However, I have not confirmed it.)

 

CONCLUSION: I think that if you play over 20 rounds/year, you really want help with knowing where to improve, you're okay with paying $119 per year for the service, and you don't mind the extra hassle involved in using Arccos, you will probably really like it.  Seeing your round afterwards is kind of neat, as it allows you to re-live it.  I also think that the virtual caddie function (which you have to play 5 rounds to unlock) could be both helpful and fun to use.

 

But for now, I will stick with my Garmin S20 watch.

[03trdblack]

Shotscope has been phenomenal and has none of the issues you listed here with Arccos. The original deal breaker for me was having to play with your phone in your pocket which I just won't do (phones are too big) and then coming out with another belt clip option that you charged people for. That should have just been part of the purchase in my opinion. 

 

Charging the annual fee on top of that also bothers me since they are essentially harvesting your data to sell off to whoever wants to buy it and then making you pay for that privilege. 

[3leggedpony]

Completely agree. I gave up on arccos after a couple of rounds too. It was better than having to tag clubs like game golf required, but not by much, and the size of the sensors was also offputting (not to mention swing weight impact?). 
shotscope on the other hand is like a next gen product. Completely unintrusive, smaller sensors, more accurate with the flag position tagging, and has a gps watch thrown in. It’s brilliant. 

[larson92]

11 hours ago, 03trdblack said:

Shotscope has been phenomenal and has none of the issues you listed here with Arccos.

 

How does Shotscope handle duffs/chunks, mulligans, OOB, and water shots?

[phil75070]

3 hours ago, larson92 said:

 

How does Shotscope handle duffs/chunks, mulligans, OOB, and water shots?

Duffs and chunks will often be missed as the ball has to travel some distance for the watch to recognize that you are taking another shot. I've had shots up a steep slope that have rolled back to my feet and been missed. Mulligans I've never used since I got the watch last July but I think you would just hit from the same location, pick up the ball you don't want to use and hit your next shot from the one still in play. Penalties can be handled on the watch during play or after the round when you edit the round. Their Support Site FAQs are extensive and provide much better info than the manual. Here is the link:

 

Shot Scope

Edited June 3, 2021 by phil75070

[jmorrow020]

15 hours ago, larson92 said:

Bottom Line Up Front: Arccos is less useful, more cumbersome to use, and more expensive that I had hoped for.

 

Disclaimer: I've only played two rounds with it (and had three emails with tech support).

 

I recently purchased the Arccos bundle (i.e. sensor pack and Arccos Link), and this is why I'm returning it:

 

1. When I signed up for my "free" year of service (that came with the bundle), I had to agree to be charged $119 to renew at the end of the free year.  Obviously, I can cancel before that---but this means that they are hiking the base subscription price by $20.  With how much I play golf, that equates to almost $10 per round -- but more importantly, it shows that Arccos will milk their addicted customers for every penny they think they can get away with.  (The following year, it could be $149.)  For me, $119 is at least two (and possibly three) rounds of golf.

 

2. The system misses a lot of putts, requiring you to manually enter them.  (This is especially true on short putts.)  I've tried this both with and without the "improved" setting, but the improved setting seems to be concentrated on removing false detects and not on getting lost detects that would have otherwise been missed.  I've also followed the guidance to stand still for at least 1 second before putting to maximize the chances that Arccos will detect the put.  In spite of this, missed putts have been common and have to be added during the round because I've tried afterwards both in the app and through the website (using multiple browsers) and the added putts didn't take.  (So much for not having to carry your phone because you have the Arccos Link.)

 

3. The only putting data that Arccos seems to use is number of putts and distance to the pin for your first putt.  To get the distance, you have to mark the pin position with the app or by pressing a button on the Link.  (I found pressing the button on the link to be surprisingly awkward since the button press isn't like a real button and there is no feedback.)  The other option is to trust that someone has already marked the pin positon for the day using their app (or Link).

 

4. Arccos doesn't count strokes (other than putts) unless you are at least 10 yds away from your last shot.  This is great for handling mulligans, but it doesn't work well for duffs or sand shots that leave the ball in the bunker.  You can teach Siri to add a duff for you (when you ask her to) or you can add it in the app, but you can only do this when you are within 10 yds of where the stroke happened.  You cannot do this after the round.  (You might be able to adjust by adding a penalty shot instead after the round, but for certain you cannot teach Siri to add the stroke for you unless you are still at the scene of the crime.  This was confirmed by Arccos tech support.)

 

5. Penalty shots can be added manually, but if you (for example) lose your ball or hit one in the water, Arccos still shows your shot distance from where you hit your ball from to where you hit your next ball from.  Supposedly, they don't count this yardage in your stats--so this isn't a big deal but it can look kind of funny.

 

6. I haven't really learned much from Arccos that I didn't already know.  Sure, I need to work on my drives and approach shots, followed by my putting.  And my distance control on full shots is bad.  No surprises there.

 

7. Despite the promotion to the contrary, you still need to access the app during your round--even when you have the Arccos Link.  Barring that, you at a minimum need to keep score elsewhere and keep track of all of your duffs, penalties, and putts so that you can correct Arccos after the round.

 

8. I've found myself worried about doing things that might "screw up" Arccos data--for example, putting with a 7-iron because I don't want to go back to my bag and get my putter.  Sure, you can go back in and fix what Arccos calls a chip to a putt, but you have to remember (and take the time) to do it.

 

9. Since the sensors are activated by UV light and the club being head-down, I worry that using a club on the range for an hour (e.g. working with my 7-iron) will drain the battery in the sensor and shorten the time before I need to purchase more sensors.  (Note that I THINK that every time you purchase a new set of sensors (currently $179), you get a year of service with it.  However, I have not confirmed it.)

 

CONCLUSION: I think that if you play over 20 rounds/year, you really want help with knowing where to improve, you're okay with paying $119 per year for the service, and you don't mind the extra hassle involved in using Arccos, you will probably really like it.  Seeing your round afterwards is kind of neat, as it allows you to re-live it.  I also think that the virtual caddie function (which you have to play 5 rounds to unlock) could be both helpful and fun to use.

 

But for now, I will stick with my Garmin S20 watch.

 

 

To be fair I dont think you are the customer for Arccos. If you are saying that $120 is about $10 a round for the tech... that means you're playing less than 20 times a year, and across isnt really going to benefit you more than a GPS rangefinder scorecard app would. Which is why I think that your experience with the S20 has probably been perfectly adequate. I personally quickly check Arccos after every hole to make sure that its correct and havent found any issues doing so, or loss of time, or added stress or anything like that. 

 

The 10 yards thing I dont think is true. I have had Arccos pick up duffs before, and I can go back into rounds on either the dashboard or the app and add another shot as well. So I dont know if that is user error or a glitch in your app, but that has always worked fine for me. With the putter sensor on the putter, I have also never had an issue with it missing putts. I dont use link so I always mark the flag in the app, and again I just quickly check before I tee off on the next hole. It doesnt slow me down at all. Every now and then it will miss a tap in, or register an extra putt, but again... its never slowed me down to just check quickly. 

 

For the penalty shots... its still tracking your movement around the course which is why its giving you distances to that next shot, its not for the club data, its for the shot tracking on the GPS layout of the hole. If you look at your club data, Arccoss will show you what shots they are using for their calculations, and those shots wont be included in stats or numbers. 

 

I use Arccos for the GPS rangefinder, the club statistics, playing statistics and very often I use it to compare clubs as well when I am hitting something new; which is a very underrated part of this technology. I'm now at 17 rounds played with it in about 2-1/2 months and its second nature for me now to use the system. I would say either ditch it completely and never worry about it again, or give yourself a couple more rounds to see what its worth. IMO I wasnt even getting the full experience of the app until I had about 15 rounds in it. 

[Z1ggy16]

I haven't used shotscope in a while but is there an app that gives you sg18 data yet? I just remember it being more like a score keeper and it also happened to tell you how far you hit each club. I also hated wearing that chonky watch.

 

The screw in sensors are a big pain the butt I would agree. But if you are able to use the grips which have the sensors built in, it's really not a big deal. 

 

I've used Arccos now for so long (and my game isn't changing a ton) I stopped using the sensors completely and just use my phone as a GPS/Caddie since it gives slope and wind adjustable distance. 

 

I imagine that future iterations of the software will allow 2nd putt placement but I think it hasn't been built in bc it didn't really matter when it came to sg18 calculations. 

[3leggedpony]

The v3 shotscope watch is pretty thin. That was definitely a problem with v2

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, Z1ggy16 said:

I've used Arccos now for so long (and my game isn't changing a ton) I stopped using the sensors completely and just use my phone as a GPS/Caddie since it gives slope and wind adjustable distance. 

 

I've gradually lost interest in all my statistics, analytics, shot tracking and what have you for just this reason. After cipherin' on all that stuff for two decades now I know more about my game that I'd really ever need to know. And it really doesn't change much over time. My handicap drifts up and down based mostly on how many disaster shots per round I'm wasting but the basic comparisons among driving, long approaches, wedges, short game, putting haven't really changed at all over the years. 

 

No matter what device, app or method you use there's a hassle factor for accurately recording every shot. After a while the benefits of keeping on with the tracking diminish while the hassle remains the same.  

[Hoyoymac]

The Arccos sensors, Link and dashboard has been instrumental to my improvement over the last year and a half.

 

I have found that the folks at Arccos have been very responsive if a sensor malfunctions, breaks or the battery dies sending a replacement quickly and for free during the first two years of ownership.

 

The best features that have helped me are the yardages for the clubs, the statistics, strokes gained and areas to work on.  I’ve completely changed my club makeup since getting the sensors based on the information learned.

 

The caddie feature is very helpful when playing an unfamiliar course.

 

Since I got my grip sensors the information I have gleaned from Arccos has helped me reach my goal of getting my handicap below 5 from an 8.

 

I also feel like I now know what parts of my game I need to work on to get down to a scratch.

 

The cost of the sensors, Link and ongoing fee is less than I would have paid for one new golf club and it has helped me immensely.

 

It is working well for me.

[Celeras]

Arccos sensors are free with most of the clubs in my bag, and they're still not worth using in the slightest over something like Garmin. That should about sum it up. 

[larson92]

6 hours ago, Hoyoymac said:

I’ve completely changed my club makeup since getting the sensors based on the information learned.

 

 

So, in other words, Arccos has cost you a bundle!  🙂

[Hoyoymac]

The grip sensors were free from Arccos as a partnership deal with them and Ping.  

 

I paid for the Link and I choose to pay for the ongoing subscription because of the value I’m deriving from it.

 

The club changes were the result of data gathered on usage and yardage gaps.

 

The members of the Men’s Golf Association and my playing partners that are skeptical of making any changes have helped me to recoup whatever I’ve paid via our daily bets, the birdie pool and points games.

 

Through the first five months of the year, I’m the leading money winner and have the most close-ups.

 

Whether the Arccos system works for you or not, I’ve seen the benefit of tracking my club yardages, statistics and strokes gained.  It has allowed me to leverage my strengths and focus on areas for improvement.  

 

Whatever system you prefer to gather data on your game is probably going to help.  Some of my playing partners prefer using a GPS system for yardages.  I prefer my Bushnell laser range finder.

 

I’ve not found a system that works perfectly for stat tracking, but what I have now is working for me.

 

 

 

 

[phil75070]

10 hours ago, Hoyoymac said:

I have found that the folks at Arccos have been very responsive if a sensor malfunctions, breaks or the battery dies sending a replacement quickly and for free during the first two years of ownership.

So, do you have extra sensors to replace a broken one or one whose battery has died? Or, can you not use the system since you are missing a club(s) until the replacement arrives? I play every weekday, weather permitting and based on what they say battery life is like (5 years but based on 50 rounds per year) I'd be replacing batteries on a somewhat frequent basis after that first year and a half.

[North Butte]

2 hours ago, Hoyoymac said:

The members of the Men’s Golf Association and my playing partners that are skeptical of making any changes have helped me to recoup whatever I’ve paid via our daily bets, the birdie pool and points games.

 

Through the first five months of the year, I’m the leading money winner and have the most close-ups.

 

It does sound like you are a success story for the possibilities of golf analytics.

 

But as for the concept of winning money to pay for your new clubs and such, do you play off scratch? Because if you are playing in handicapped games that ought to be a zero-sum proposition. If you shoot lower scores your handicap goes down.

[Hoyoymac]

The 5 year lifespan is based on an average golfer.  
 

I have 204 rounds entered in the GHIN system in the last twelve months.  The batteries in the sensors last between a year and a year and a half if you play a lot.  The sensors on the clubs you use the most will need replacing the most frequently.

 

I do have a spare sensor or two to use while waiting for a replacement to arrive.  You can also manually enter a shot if the sensor’s battery dies on you mid round.

 

They’ll replace them for free in the first two years, so you will get maybe 3 years out of your initial purchase if you play or practice a lot.  
 

I prefer the screw in type sensor because I’m replacing my grips every 6-12 months.

 

My GHIN index is currently 4.8 and my course handicap is 1.  In the Men’s group Modified Stableford points game my quota is currently 35 points.

[TimAZ]

On 6/3/2021 at 5:31 PM, Celeras said:

Arccos sensors are free with most of the clubs in my bag, and they're still not worth using in the slightest over something like Garmin. That should about sum it up. 

 

I play with both Arccos and my Garmin watch. I use the watch on-course for yardages and to keep score, and do the minimum with the Arccos during my round (which isn't much). So for me they do different things, but if you're interested in data analytics about your game, the two aren't even in the same conversation--Garmin's attempts at statistics are mediocre by comparison.

 

I don't think Arccos is for everyone--many folks will not be interested in the data it provides, or at least not if they perceive that it requires attention or impacts their swing ,or at the cost of the subscription. But I never felt Garmin did much to improve my game beyond providing yardages, and I do feel like I'm getting actionable information from the Arccos. Though I've used Garmin for years, I'm only a few months into Arccos and not ready to say definitively that it's worth it; but so far I'm excited about it.

 

 

[tte720]

I’m a 90s+ golfer and got the gen 2 sensors off eBay specifically to avoid paying the subscription fee. It’s generally been positive and I enjoy the yardage tracking features 

[Bigjim1022]

I have/had the sensors that screwed into the grip of each club.  I used them for a few rounds last summer but ultimately took them off.  I'd find they would miss shot and it annoyed me to have to edit the info during the round.  That being said, the info provided was kinda cool but for someone like me who just isn't a stat guy it was too much.  I have a pretty decent idea how far I hit my clubs, know I need to work on chipping and approach play so I didn't learn a ton.  I didn't notice a difference in swing weight with them in, i can't imagine they affect it much the sensors weigh next to nothing.  

 

I ended up cancelling my membership because I prefer using my Garmin watch to keep score and a rangefinder for distances.  I never used the caddy function.  I will say, the sensor in the putter felt weird.  It was the only sensor that I felt interfered with my grip and was the only club that would consistently miss shots.  Probably not a coincidence. 

[Luv2kruz]

For all this cost and hassle, what are you really getting out of Arccos, Shotscope, etc. that you can't get out of simpler apps for significantly less cost. Lots of apps for $20-30/yr that will tell you a good chunk of what you need to know to improve your game. Is the incremental cost of 'automation' in these higher cost solutions really worth it? 

[MattM97]

On 6/4/2021 at 5:09 AM, Hoyoymac said:

The grip sensors were free from Arccos as a partnership deal with them and Ping.  

 

I paid for the Link and I choose to pay for the ongoing subscription because of the value I’m deriving from it.

 

The club changes were the result of data gathered on usage and yardage gaps.

 

The members of the Men’s Golf Association and my playing partners that are skeptical of making any changes have helped me to recoup whatever I’ve paid via our daily bets, the birdie pool and points games.

 

Through the first five months of the year, I’m the leading money winner and have the most close-ups.

 

Whether the Arccos system works for you or not, I’ve seen the benefit of tracking my club yardages, statistics and strokes gained.  It has allowed me to leverage my strengths and focus on areas for improvement.  

 

Whatever system you prefer to gather data on your game is probably going to help.  Some of my playing partners prefer using a GPS system for yardages.  I prefer my Bushnell laser range finder.

 

I’ve not found a system that works perfectly for stat tracking, but what I have now is working for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Question about the link is it worth it? I've gotten used to my phone in my pocket but wouldn't mind a lighter option but only if it works as well as the phone. 

[phil75070]

2 hours ago, Luv2kruz said:

simpler apps

The problem with the apps is that now you either have to keep the phone in your pocket or nearby on the cart and either way there is a lot of interaction with it during the round to gather the data. With Arccos, Shot Scope, etc, it is pretty much put it on and forget about it as far as data collection goes during the round.

[Luv2kruz]

4 minutes ago, phil75070 said:

The problem with the apps is that now you either have to keep the phone in your pocket or nearby on the cart and either way there is a lot of interaction with it during the round to gather the data. With Arccos, Shot Scope, etc, it is pretty much put it on and forget about it as far as data collection goes during the round.

 

I guess each person's tolerance to having a phone near them is different. I have my phone in the drawer of my Clicgear along with my range finder. I enter the data into my app when it is convenient for me, usually on the next tee or walking down the fairway, so I'm not tied to the phone to capture data exactly where I'm standing. I'm so used to it now that I don't even think about it and it doesn't interfere with my round in the slightest. For the incremental $100/yr + hardware costs, the automation of data collection is just not worth it to me. I'm more of a DIY kind of guy anyway. And even when spending the extra $100/yr, the automation still doesn't work all the time and you have to go back in correct things, so you still end up doing some manual entry anyway. I'd just prefer to do manual entry all the way and save the $100. Maybe I don't get as slick of a solution with all the fancy data, but I get pretty much 80% of the way there and save a lot in the process. Again, different strokes for different folks.

[North Butte]

3 hours ago, Luv2kruz said:

For all this cost and hassle, what are you really getting out of Arccos, Shotscope, etc. that you can't get out of simpler apps for significantly less cost. Lots of apps for $20-30/yr that will tell you a good chunk of what you need to know to improve your game. Is the incremental cost of 'automation' in these higher cost solutions really worth it? 

I don't think you can get much simpler than Arccos (especially with the Link) and still collect actionable information about your game. You either know the distance and result of each shot or else any "stats" you gather (stuff like "fairways hit" or "putts per GIR", for example) are anywhere from useless to misleading.

 

So either you need a device that automatically records each shot or you need to pull out a phone and manually record each shot or you have to recall every shot accurately and enter it after the round. 

 

The worst of all worlds are the guys who are pulling their phone out of their pocket a couple times on every hole, tapping away entering "Fairways" and "Greens" and "Score" and then ending up with a summary of the round that says, "7 fairways, 6 greens, 34 putts and shot 86". Which is of no real value for analyzing what happened during the round. You look at those supposed stats and conclude, "Wow, I missed a lot of greens today. No wonder I didn't score well". But was the GIR low because you chipped out of the trees after half a dozen bad tee shots? Or because you were coming up 20 yards short with an 8-iron in your hand? 

[nezander]

2 hours ago, North Butte said:

"Wow, I missed a lot of greens today. No wonder I didn't score well". But was the GIR low because you chipped out of the trees after half a dozen bad tee shots? Or because you were coming up 20 yards short with an 8-iron in your hand? 

 

<-- Both..

[Hoyoymac]

I prefer the Link. Never liked having my phone in my front pocket.  The Link also picks up shots better and is easier to use to set the pin location for more accurate stats.

[Luv2kruz]

7 hours ago, North Butte said:

I don't think you can get much simpler than Arccos (especially with the Link) and still collect actionable information about your game. You either know the distance and result of each shot or else any "stats" you gather (stuff like "fairways hit" or "putts per GIR", for example) are anywhere from useless to misleading.

 

So either you need a device that automatically records each shot or you need to pull out a phone and manually record each shot or you have to recall every shot accurately and enter it after the round. 

 

The worst of all worlds are the guys who are pulling their phone out of their pocket a couple times on every hole, tapping away entering "Fairways" and "Greens" and "Score" and then ending up with a summary of the round that says, "7 fairways, 6 greens, 34 putts and shot 86". Which is of no real value for analyzing what happened during the round. You look at those supposed stats and conclude, "Wow, I missed a lot of greens today. No wonder I didn't score well". But was the GIR low because you chipped out of the trees after half a dozen bad tee shots? Or because you were coming up 20 yards short with an 8-iron in your hand? 

 

Firstly, Arccos may be easy, but that comes at a cost. $120/yr plus hardware is starting to get up there and isn't a screaming value to me. I get pretty much everything I need for a heck of a lot less, but as you said, you just have to get used to touching your phone often to enter the data. Manual entry for me is no big deal, but for others, I can understand how it might be distracting. 

 

Secondly, I agree with you that basic stats like FIR, GIR, etc. are not that good. I track stats like approach proximity, chip proximity, lag putt proximity, strokes gained putting, 'acceptable' tee shots, approach shot make %, etc. These are far more useful and informative to help define where my game needs work and do a very good job isolating specific golf areas unlike GIR, FIR, U/D, ,for example, which don't. I also like proximity type stats because it is something that I can visual during play and during practice session. I can't visualize strokes gained.

 

Lastly, I personally find little to no value is measuring and tracking shot total distances. To me, carry distance is the most important thing to know and no solution I know of measures that aside from a launch monitor. I need to know how much each of my irons carry in order to get over the lip of the bunker or to carry a hazard. Total distance tracked by Arccos does not help here and I don't know what people use the distances for aside from just the novelty of knowing. 

[North Butte]

2 hours ago, Luv2kruz said:

 

Firstly, Arccos may be easy, but that comes at a cost. $120/yr plus hardware is starting to get up there and isn't a screaming value to me. I get pretty much everything I need for a heck of a lot less, but as you said, you just have to get used to touching your phone often to enter the data. Manual entry for me is no big deal, but for others, I can understand how it might be distracting. 

 

Secondly, I agree with you that basic stats like FIR, GIR, etc. are not that good. I track stats like approach proximity, chip proximity, lag putt proximity, strokes gained putting, 'acceptable' tee shots, approach shot make %, etc. These are far more useful and informative to help define where my game needs work and do a very good job isolating specific golf areas unlike GIR, FIR, U/D, ,for example, which don't. I also like proximity type stats because it is something that I can visual during play and during practice session. I can't visualize strokes gained.

 

Lastly, I personally find little to no value is measuring and tracking shot total distances. To me, carry distance is the most important thing to know and no solution I know of measures that aside from a launch monitor. I need to know how much each of my irons carry in order to get over the lip of the bunker or to carry a hazard. Total distance tracked by Arccos does not help here and I don't know what people use the distances for aside from just the novelty of knowing. 

Distances are needed to know the quality of each shot. A proximity of 12 feet to the hole from 75 yards is good. Proximity of 12 feet from 225 yards is great. A tee shot that goes 250 yards and leaves you 150 from the hole is good. One that goes 350 yards and leaves you 150 from the hole is great. 
 

It’s not the hardest thing in the world to record distance and lie for 40-some shots and 30-some putts. But it costs money and/or time whether you pay money for Arccos or Shotscope or spend extra time pulling out your phone to swipe and tap dozens of times a round. 
 

i personally found after a couple hundred rounds the additional information gained was approaching zero. It was just continuing to tell me things I already knew. But the cost and effort for the 100th round was the same as for the 1st. 

[larson92]

Personally, I don't have a problem with keeping my phone in my pocket when playing.  What I don't like is using my phone while playing.

 

I've tried a dozen golf apps, and I didn't like any of them because they all require you to pull your phone out on every hole.  (Exception: The original Golfshot app, which was just cool because having GPS yardages 10+ years ago was brand new.  But all it gave you was distances--not any kind of shot tracking.)

 

I've tried a Bushnell GPS watch and a Garmin S20, and I like them both because they are useful and yet not obtrusive.

 

As such, my Shotscope is on order.  Hoping for the best...  🙂

[Luv2kruz]

9 hours ago, North Butte said:

Distances are needed to know the quality of each shot. A proximity of 12 feet to the hole from 75 yards is good. Proximity of 12 feet from 225 yards is great. A tee shot that goes 250 yards and leaves you 150 from the hole is good. One that goes 350 yards and leaves you 150 from the hole is great. 

As you indicated, the distances are simply used to bracket results and allow a subjective assessment of whether a shot was good from a particular distance. The resulting proximity really carries the weight of that assessment with the starting distance being secondary. But that starting distance could be a rough estimate and still be just as useful instead of being so precisely measured with shot tracking hardware.

 

As I said before, the actual total distance travelled for each shot doesn't appear to be useful in any other way, particularly for club selection. Total distance is affected by the softness/firmness of the fairways and greens for example. You can play one course where your nine iron carries 135 and stops on a dime and then another course where the greens are firm and the ball carries 135 and stops 7 yards later. Total distance on the first is 135 and total distance on the second is 142 for a sizeable difference. And I am not sure about how the app handles bad shots where the ball only goes 100 yards with the same club. Does it filter those out or include them in your average distance travelled by all shots. 

 

So again, I don't see the value in tracking the exact distance of every shot just only to be able to bracket results. You could do that with far less costly and sophisticated means.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Luv2kruz