Asked to move ball not on green

[Sawgrass]

1 hour ago, bcski said:

Yes may and can can be synonymous. 

 

My comment was on the legal end of the vernacular used, and that "can require" does not carry the same weight as the word Must in the strict legal sense.  AGAIN, I said I doubt a golfer would seek legal recourse against a committee in a tournament if they were forced or penalized for not moving their ball when asked...  

 

I originally asked if the usga had a rule stating the player MUST move the ball and thanks to the help from you all we discovered the rule does not state a player MUST move the ball in the strictest legal sense.

 

However as with all sports the intent is to aid the players in having a level playing field, and the intent of the rule is clear - that it is expected the player asked to mark their ball should out of sportsmanship - or sportswomanship if you prefer.

 

Again, thanks to all who helped steer the ship...

You write much better than you read.  15.3b(2) requires a player who is asked to remove their ball to do so:
 

• The player may require the other player to mark the spot and lift the ball (see Rule 14.1), and the ball must not be cleaned (except when lifted from the putting green under Rule 13.1b) and must be replaced on its original spot (see Rule 14.2).

[Newby]

4 hours ago, bcski said:

Yes may and can can be synonymous. 

 

My comment was on the legal end of the vernacular used, and that "can require" does not carry the same weight as the word Must in the strict legal sense.  AGAIN, I said I doubt a golfer would seek legal recourse against a committee in a tournament if they were forced or penalized for not moving their ball when asked...  

 

The player may --------- require the other player to …

 

The player has a choice

The other player does not (if so required)

[SNIPERBBB]

7 hours ago, bcski said:

Yes may and can can be synonymous. 

 

My comment was on the legal end of the vernacular used, and that "can require" does not carry the same weight as the word Must in the strict legal sense.  AGAIN, I said I doubt a golfer would seek legal recourse against a committee in a tournament if they were forced or penalized for not moving their ball when asked...  

 

I originally asked if the usga had a rule stating the player MUST move the ball and thanks to the help from you all we discovered the rule does not state a player MUST move the ball in the strictest legal sense.

 

However as with all sports the intent is to aid the players in having a level playing field, and the intent of the rule is clear - that it is expected the player asked to mark their ball should out of sportsmanship - or sportswomanship if you prefer.

 

Again, thanks to all who helped steer the ship...

Technically the only other penalty free option the player being asked to mark is to play their ball. They dont have an option to not mark.

Edited June 9, 2021 by SNIPERBBB

[Mr. Bean]

13 hours ago, Quasimoto said:

We don’t carry phones with us when we play. 1 less distraction for everyone.

 

Now THAT is funny! In more developed countries, such as mine, people do not use score cards but their phones to register the scores.

 

Well, hopefully you get there some day...

[Augster]

13 hours ago, Quasimoto said:

We don’t carry phones with us when we play. 1 less distraction for everyone.

While this is an aside from the overall thread, it’s important. Not carrying a cell phone is reckless in this day and age. Given how many golfers have medical problems while on the course, and minutes can mean the difference between life and death, it’s reckless to not carry a cell phone. 
 

It’s like wearing a seat belt. Will you need it every time? Absolutely not. But when something happens it’s really good to have at hand. 

[rogolf]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Now THAT is funny! In more developed countries, such as mine, people do not use score cards but their phones to register the scores.

 

Well, hopefully you get there some day...

Are comments like that really necessary?🤢

[2bGood]

23 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Now THAT is funny! In more developed countries, such as mine, people do not use score cards but their phones to register the scores.

 

Well, hopefully you get there some day...

 

I am in the don't carry a phone camp (or if I do it is turned off). I spend all day on my phone working. Part of why I golf is to get away from it all. Pulling out my phone throughout the round just brings me back to work. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by 2bGood

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, rogolf said:

Are comments like that really necessary?🤢

 

I guess they fall close to same category of picking on one's foreign language...

[bcski]

Sigh... Have a good round tomorrow everyone....

[smashdn]

7 hours ago, Augster said:

While this is an aside from the overall thread, it’s important. Not carrying a cell phone is reckless in this day and age. Given how many golfers have medical problems while on the course, and minutes can mean the difference between life and death, it’s reckless to not carry a cell phone. 

Or an aed or be trained in first aid and CPR.  It is reckless not to be willing and capable of providing aid given that, even with a cell phone, emergency medical help is often too far away to arrive in time to prevent serious complications from the medical issue including death.

 

(tongue in cheek)

 

I could throw my danged phone in the river and be plenty happy.  Some of us remember and lived in the days before cell phones and we all managed.  This may come as a shock, but we had regular corded telephones scattered about the required the deposit of an actual coin to gain access to the phone and make a call.  Strange times indeed.

[Quasimoto]

9 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Now THAT is funny! In more developed countries, such as mine, people do not use score cards but their phones to register the scores.

 

Well, hopefully you get there some day...

People do that here as well. That’s what interests them, and they don’t view it as a nuisance, so have at ‘er.

Personally, I have not and will never have the need to have a cell phone while playing golf.

Maybe I’m just a traditionalist in that regard. For more than 350 years no one needed a phone on the golf course.

Now?? I don’t understand why they are needed.

[Krt22]

20 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

You write much better than you read.  15.3b(2) requires a player who is asked to remove their ball to do so:
 

• The player may require the other player to mark the spot and lift the ball (see Rule 14.1), and the ball must not be cleaned (except when lifted from the putting green under Rule 13.1b) and must be replaced on its original spot (see Rule 14.2).

Imagine someone taking "legal" action based on their poor interpretation of the rules of golf. Even better if it was a net event at a club where the "damages" are book credit lol.

[sui generis]

47 minutes ago, Quasimoto said:

I don’t understand why they are needed.

 

There are some other reasons, of course. But, if you play competitive golf at all, you'll know that scoring is largely done via Golf Genius or something similar.

[Quasimoto]

2 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

There are some other reasons, of course. But, if you play competitive golf at all, you'll know that scoring is largely done via Golf Genius or something similar.

Just out of curiosity, are they allowed on the various tours - PGA, LPGA, Euro, etc?

[Quasimoto]

Also, does that mean if one does not possess a cellphone they can’t score a competitive round?

[Krt22]

Just now, Quasimoto said:

Also, does that mean if one does not possess a cellphone they can’t score a competitive round?

With Covid, yes that was the case in some instances/groups, but only 1 of the 4 people needed a cellphone. PGA tour official scoring is done with the paper card, but every single group also has an electronic scorer with them

[sui generis]

6 minutes ago, Quasimoto said:

Just out of curiosity, are they allowed on the various tours - PGA, LPGA, Euro, etc?

I doubt it, but who cares about TV golf? That's certainly not we're talking about here. 

[Quasimoto]

I just wondered how deep the stupidity would run.

[sui generis]

1 minute ago, Quasimoto said:

I just wondered how deep the stupidity would run.

 

Don't worry. TV golf will catch up sooner or later.

[Mr. Bean]

11 hours ago, Quasimoto said:

Also, does that mean if one does not possess a cellphone they can’t score a competitive round?

 

On our National Tour at least one in the group 'must' have a device with which to keep score for the entire group. So far I have not encountered a single group not having one, mainly they all have it.

[Mr. Bean]

12 hours ago, Quasimoto said:

People do that here as well. That’s what interests them, and they don’t view it as a nuisance, so have at ‘er.

Personally, I have not and will never have the need to have a cell phone while playing golf.

Maybe I’m just a traditionalist in that regard. For more than 350 years no one needed a phone on the golf course.

Now?? I don’t understand why they are needed.

 

Smartphones are needed on the course no more than motorized carts, distance markers, push or pull carts or DMDs. They all are nice to have and may help you in playing your round or create additional pleasure for your game of golf but are by no means a necessity.

 

I guess virtually nobody uses pencil and paper to record the statistics of their game as it is so easy with current applications to be installed on a smartphone. Quite a few use the phone as a DMD as well in order to reduce the nr of apparatus to be carried on oneself. It is also quite handy when wanting to take photos of a new course or of something interesting on the course like a strange animal of a cart driven in a bunker or a pond.

 

Yes, I believe a smartphone is handy on a golf course but should not be used for talking or distracting oneself from the game.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

I guess virtually nobody uses pencil and paper to record the statistics of their game as it is so easy with current applications to be installed on a smartphone.

 

Darnit.  I may know a guy.

 

😬

 

Phone stays in my vehicle on the course unless I am golfing during work hours and I may need to be reached.  Golf is me time and me don't feel obligated to pack them everywhere, especially when I am trying to find 3-4 hours of peace outdoors.

Edited June 10, 2021 by smashdn

[rogolf]

19 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Darnit.  I may know a guy.

 

😬

 

Phone stays in my vehicle on the course unless I am golfing during work hours and I may need to be reached.  Golf is me time and me don't feel obligated to pack them everywhere, especially when I am trying to find 3-4 hours of peace outdoors.

And I do know a few - none of the people in the groups that I play in, probably a total of 40 or so, use a phone to keep their score.  Everybody uses pencil and paper.  (I guess that we're an undeveloped country 🙃)

[SNIPERBBB]

29 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Darnit.  I may know a guy.

 

😬

 

Phone stays in my vehicle on the course unless I am golfing during work hours and I may need to be reached.  Golf is me time and me don't feel obligated to pack them everywhere, especially when I am trying to find 3-4 hours of peace outdoors.

As long your not stuck behind some slow groups with no expectations of playing through, you don't have time to play or check your phone.

 

Unfortunately my work league and occasionally at the money games I get a lot of Kindle reading done.

[PoolPond]

On 6/7/2021 at 7:54 PM, SNIPERBBB said:

The rules in most books aren't that hard, except maybe NBA and college/pro football. Once you understand the basics, it makes everything else easier. 

Not disagreeing at all but just an observation-NCAA men's lacrosse, and really HS lacrosse, have to be the most difficult rules to know and enforce.  Much more complicated than basketball, football or golf. 

[SNIPERBBB]

35 minutes ago, PoolPond said:

Not disagreeing at all but just an observation-NCAA men's lacrosse, and really HS lacrosse, have to be the most difficult rules to know and enforce.  Much more complicated than basketball, football or golf. 

Lacrosse is almost unheard of here.  Of the two D1 schools within 2 hrs of me only one has it, Ohio state and one D3 school has it. Pretty sure none of the NAIA have it 

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Darnit.  I may know a guy.

 

😬

 

Phone stays in my vehicle on the course unless I am golfing during work hours and I may need to be reached.  Golf is me time and me don't feel obligated to pack them everywhere, especially when I am trying to find 3-4 hours of peace outdoors.

 

My phone has the option of being silent. Doesn't yours..?

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, rogolf said:

And I do know a few - none of the people in the groups that I play in, probably a total of 40 or so, use a phone to keep their score.  Everybody uses pencil and paper.  (I guess that we're an undeveloped country 🙃)

 

I guess we already knew that. Besides, we were lately talking about people gathering statistics with pen and paper, not the score...

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, PoolPond said:

Not disagreeing at all but just an observation-NCAA men's lacrosse, and really HS lacrosse, have to be the most difficult rules to know and enforce.  Much more complicated than basketball, football or golf. 

 

Try cricket...

[2bGood]

4 hours ago, rogolf said:

And I do know a few - none of the people in the groups that I play in, probably a total of 40 or so, use a phone to keep their score.  Everybody uses pencil and paper.  (I guess that we're an undeveloped country 🙃)

Out of about 60 guys I play with I only know one that keeps score on his phone (but lots who carry them). I think one issue is the phone does not lend itself well to tracking group betting action. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by 2bGood