The One Tip That Saved Your Game

[JohnnyCashForever]

I was on the verge of losing faith in the game, until I found Monte's False Turn tip, "Try to get the right shoulder closer to the back foot in the backswing," which I remember as the "3 backs", back shoulder over back foot on backswing.  

 

False Turn: Losing Tilt or Tilting Towards the Target in the Backswing (rebelliongolf.com)

 

Unlike other tips, this one is very robust and seems foundational for me.  That is, everything seems to depend on it.  No matter how I try to stress test it, it always seems to work.  Knock on wood.  Before I was afraid to swing hard, but (for now) it seems like if I remember the "3 backs" at address, I can swing as hard as I want.  I did add one extra thought with the tip, "Try to keep that back shoulder over the back foot as long as possible on the start of the downswing."  Monte's tip saved my game.  For the first time in a long time, I'm actually enjoying the game instead of worrying about swing thoughts.  

 

Is there one tip that you consider most important over all others?

 

  

[Socrates]

Not so much a single tip, but a real turning point in my game.  Reading Pelz's book on putting in '94.  I was plagued with full on yips and regularly over 40 putts per round.  Realizing that greens are so imperfect that you can do everything right and the ball can still miss.  Took a lot of pressure off by making my expectations more realistic.  Also practice putting to something like the side of a book.  Made me concentrate on the stroke rather than the result.  Within months I was back to good putting and sometimes under 30 putts per round.

 

[bcski]

Best tip ever was "turn up the music so we don't have to hear you sobbing after bad shots..."

 

But seriously, it was a tip on the clubface position at the top of my backswing.
 

[Shushwap]

My focus this year has been left pocket back.. i have very little rotation and it causes me to flip... 

Shot 2 under on the front.. last night at mens night..

I am a bogey golfer usually 

Who knew practicing putting everyday for 30 min may actually help lol 

I backed of on the range this year and I now try and hit the chipping and putting area daily 

[JohnnyCashForever]

13 hours ago, Par Be A Joke said:

Best tip ever was "turn up the music so we don't have to hear you sobbing after bad shots..."

 

But seriously, it was a tip on the clubface position at the top of my backswing.
 

If I may, what was it?  Was it technical or a feeling?  And why did it work?

[JohnnyCashForever]

4 minutes ago, Shushwap said:

Who knew practicing putting everyday for 30 min may actually help lol 

I backed of on the range this year and I now try and hit the chipping and putting area daily 

I'm doing the same thing now.  With the long game in sync, I go to the course and hit 3 wedges, 3 3Ws, 3 5Ws, and 3 drivers on the range.  Before it used to be 2 large buckets going through the whole bag.  Feeling more frustrated afterwards than before I started.  Now, it's not even half a small bucket before I go to the short game practice area.  Good lag putting (from 30 feet and in) is my new goal.    

 

BTW, 2 under is impressive. 

[scooterhd2]

not so much a single tip, but really just developing an understanding of how the pivot really works and why my natural hit instinct and fire the hips open mentality was killing my swing.

 

Things like Montes Zipper Away, Malaskas left hip back, Bradley Hughes 4:30 swingpath. And some work with Milo Lines is really starting to fix me. On good days I am starting to actually be a darn good ball striker. 

[ferrispgm]

The absolute best tip I have had which has lead to my improvement over the last few years is from Monte which is basically it takes the best players in the world a year or longer to make a swing change so what in the world are we doing giving up after a bad range session or a couple months.  The other one which goes along with that is to focus on your physical movements on the range regardless of how you hit it and the ball flight on the course...not the other way around. Has helped me go from a bad 5 or 6 cap to +2.5 in the last 3 years.

[EDT501]

“Just hit the damn ball”

[msg]

You are not that good to be mad. 

 

lol 

 

Ever since I have been playing better than ever. 😄 

[Shushwap]

4 hours ago, JohnnyCashForever said:

I'm doing the same thing now.  With the long game in sync, I go to the course and hit 3 wedges, 3 3Ws, 3 5Ws, and 3 drivers on the range.  Before it used to be 2 large buckets going through the whole bag.  Feeling more frustrated afterwards than before I started.  Now, it's not even half a small bucket before I go to the short game practice area.  Good lag putting (from 30 feet and in) is my new goal.    

 

BTW, 2 under is impressive. 

The mentality of most people is to head to the range and hit 2 buckets with the driver... 

Good on you with the putting... I have been working on my lag putting a ton the last few weeks.. I pace out 10 feet and put a tee in and then pace another 10 beyond that.. 

The goal is to see how many balls I can put in between the 2.. if I come up short of the previous putt... I start over 

 

 

[phizzy30]

57 minutes ago, Shushwap said:

The mentality of most people is to head to the range and hit 2 buckets with the driver... 

Good on you with the putting... I have been working on my lag putting a ton the last few weeks.. I pace out 10 feet and put a tee in and then pace another 10 beyond that.. 

The goal is to see how many balls I can put in between the 2.. if I come up short of the previous putt... I start over 

 

 

Lots of golfers out there that hit their driver fine but really suck with their iron game.  Ego thing for sure.  The best tip I ever got was from my coach when I was on my college team.  He told me to work on specific things that I needed to get better at and not to pound golf balls all day with no real purpose until my back and hands got sore.  He also said that the fastest way to lower my handicap is to spend more time on and around the greens practicing.  My game really changed after that that aha moment. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by phizzy30

[BTP]

Once I learned (more so just a feeling) to "throw the angles" from the transition it opened up everything for me. I no longer feel like I am playing golf swing out on the course and can just focus on the fundamentals of pressure points in the feet, alignment and target. Monte posted in the NTC forum..."cast to sustain lag, keep body closed longer so it opens up more, push down and forward, so your body pushes up and back." 

 

Absolute mind blown. I just wish this was mainstream golf instruction 20 years ago -- would have saved me a lot of headaches.

[bcski]

9 hours ago, JohnnyCashForever said:

If I may, what was it?  Was it technical or a feeling?  And why did it work?

It was to have my clubface parallel to my target line at the top of the backswing.

[Robert L.]

Not so much one tip with me but two. One thing that has really helped me is Percy Boomer's tip to swing in a barrel. This keeps me from swaying which was one of my biggest faults. I top the ball and hit wormburners a lot less. The second isn't so much a tip as it is a concept. It's Ben Hogan's idea of a pane of glass with a hole in it for my head extending from the ball and resting on my shoulders. As Hogan says in Five Lessons swinging below the plane is not too injurious, but breaking the glass can only lead to trouble.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Robert L.

[lightgrip]

I believe I read this in an article about Butch Harmon, and it was something his dad told him when he had the hooks. “Make sure the heel of the club gets to the ball before the toe.” When I try this and execute, I hit beautiful shots. I mentioned this to my instructor and he was in favor of it.

[Shanker84]

STILL LOOKING FOR IT

[mcflog]

On 7/8/2021 at 3:38 PM, JohnnyCashForever said:

I was on the verge of losing faith in the game, until I found Monte's False Turn tip, "Try to get the right shoulder closer to the back foot in the backswing," which I remember as the "3 backs", back shoulder over back foot on backswing.  

 

False Turn: Losing Tilt or Tilting Towards the Target in the Backswing (rebelliongolf.com)

 

Unlike other tips, this one is very robust and seems foundational for me.  That is, everything seems to depend on it.  No matter how I try to stress test it, it always seems to work.  Knock on wood.  Before I was afraid to swing hard, but (for now) it seems like if I remember the "3 backs" at address, I can swing as hard as I want.  I did add one extra thought with the tip, "Try to keep that back shoulder over the back foot as long as possible on the start of the downswing."  Monte's tip saved my game.  For the first time in a long time, I'm actually enjoying the game instead of worrying about swing thoughts.  

 

Is there one tip that you consider most important over all others?

 

  

Thanks for posting this.  I thought I had read / seen all things Monte over the years but somehow this one had slipped by me.   After reading/ watching I realized that the false turn was possibly the biggest problem in my game for a long time actually.  Lots of work to do, but without a doubt my best ball striking round in quite a while by a huge margin.  Like double the amount of fairways and greens.  

[JohnnyCashForever]

On 7/9/2021 at 6:29 PM, Shushwap said:

The mentality of most people is to head to the range and hit 2 buckets with the driver... 

Good on you with the putting... I have been working on my lag putting a ton the last few weeks.. I pace out 10 feet and put a tee in and then pace another 10 beyond that.. 

The goal is to see how many balls I can put in between the 2.. if I come up short of the previous putt... I start over 

 

 

Thanks!

 

Regarding putting, I'm doing something similar.  I've been playing around the world on the practice green.  We usually have 6 or 7 flags on it.  I putt from flag to flag and try to 2-putt each along the way.  If I 3-putt, I start back on the original flag.  The first time I did it, it took me 45 minutes to complete the loop without 3-putting.  In my defense, I put a new grip on my putter and am trying a new style (ala Nicklaus), but still sad.

 

You would think I'd get bumped off this game by other golfers who share the green, but it rarely happens.  Hardly anyone practices putting, and I'm usually alone out there.

[JohnnyCashForever]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:26 PM, phizzy30 said:

Lots of golfers out there that hit their driver fine but really suck with their iron game.  Ego thing for sure.  The best tip I ever got was from my coach when I was on my college team.  He told me to work on specific things that I needed to get better at and not to pound golf balls all day with no real purpose until my back and hands got sore.  He also said that the fastest way to lower my handicap is to spend more time on and around the greens practicing.  My game really changed after that that aha moment. 

I used to hit balls until my fingers bled.  Hopefully, those days are over.

[JohnnyCashForever]

On 7/9/2021 at 8:00 PM, BTP said:

Once I learned (more so just a feeling) to "throw the angles" from the transition it opened up everything for me. I no longer feel like I am playing golf swing out on the course and can just focus on the fundamentals of pressure points in the feet, alignment and target. Monte posted in the NTC forum..."cast to sustain lag, keep body closed longer so it opens up more, push down and forward, so your body pushes up and back." 

 

Absolute mind blown. I just wish this was mainstream golf instruction 20 years ago -- would have saved me a lot of headaches.

I wish I could understand this concept better.  It does feel that when I make a "correct" backswing with Monte's "3 Backs" tip I can really let loose on the downswing without any danger of coming over the top.  Perhaps, that is what he means by throwing the angles.  I don't know though.  I am playing more "golf" and less "golf swing" now.  For that I'm thankful. 

[JohnnyCashForever]

15 hours ago, mcflog said:

Thanks for posting this.  I thought I had read / seen all things Monte over the years but somehow this one had slipped by me.   After reading/ watching I realized that the false turn was possibly the biggest problem in my game for a long time actually.  Lots of work to do, but without a doubt my best ball striking round in quite a while by a huge margin.  Like double the amount of fairways and greens.  

Awesome.  Same thing with me!  The fix was almost instantaneous, simple, and it holds up round after round.  It feels like something that I can now build a better swing on.

 

For the longest time, I wondered why my swing would feel good early in the season, plateau after about a month, and then crash.  I may not know all of the reasons, but I'm beginning to suspect that in my efforts to get better, I was mega-false turning more and more as the season wore on.  So now, instead of trying to get massive shoulder rotation on the backswing, I'm keeping an eye that I don't over-rotate.  It almost feels like my shoulders are now disconnected from one another.  The front shoulder rotates a lot more than the back shoulder on the backswing.  It's probably not the case, but that's my feel.

 

Anyway, I'm glad someone feels the same way as me about Monte's tip!  Good luck.  

[BTP]

3 hours ago, JohnnyCashForever said:

I wish I could understand this concept better.  It does feel that when I make a "correct" backswing with Monte's "3 Backs" tip I can really let loose on the downswing without any danger of coming over the top.  Perhaps, that is what he means by throwing the angles.  I don't know though.  I am playing more "golf" and less "golf swing" now.  For that I'm thankful. 

The only thing I feel like I am consciously doing is setting the wrists sooner and in transition FEELING like I am initiating the downswing by hinging the left wrist downward i.e. ulnar deviation as a RH golfer.

[parmark]

This is very timely from where I sit.  Just coming back from a stint on the DL - including a week in the Hospital last month with some bug they never could nail down - but the game's been a struggle all year.  Shanks and horrific pushes.  Just couldn't figure it out. 

 

Had one of those Tin Cup moments.  July 4 weekend, and after being out for a month or so, I come up with the idea let's play 4 rounds over Holiday weekend. Never mind have lost distance to some degree and haven't played for a month or so.

 

On the range on Friday, first round - and out of nowhere, Mr. Hosel rocket appears.  Just sucks.  I'm freaking out, almost ready to just go home.  But got thru the round, mainly playing defensive swing, and not causing any bodily harm.  But was not looking forward to the rest of the weekend's rounds. 

 

So following day Saturday round same old same old hitting it all over, and we come to a  Par 3 175 or so.  I'm a short knocker anyways and have lost some distance after being out a few weeks - so   it's a 4 hybrid for me.  Hit a god awful line drive to right field smack dab in the middle of the water surrounding the hole, arms flailing like I do at times.  Just horrible.

 

Playing partner, bless his soul,  who is a very good and smart player, you guys know him as Precision here  - Will mentions to me - your hips really fired out on that shot.  In other words EE. Talk about a light bulb moment.  The sky's opened and I literally had a real clue what I was doing.  @MonteScheinblum after all his suggestions and "encouragement" ie colorful adjectives would have been proud!

 

Played twice more that weekend and twice this past weekend  - it's a whole new ballgame! I actually have a clue and a chance. I thought my issues was lack of shoulder turn, never really keyed on the hips, or had a clue how to turn properly.  Turning the right hip back - I mean really turning back (along with the shoulders and using body/core), feel is it moves over my Left heel  - and then making a real effort to rotate and push Left hip behind me coming down per an AMG video.  Absolute best ball striking rounds this past weekend. Was grinning as I was overshooting greens with lesser clubs that I would normally be short with.  It's amazing how the right fundamentals can lead to a bit of confidence to allow  you to really hit the ball. Nothing worse than being tentative and swing thought is "please don't eff this up!".

 

First time in my life I was glad to hit a ball in the water and caught the eye of my partner! And am enjoying the pain I feel in my hip after playing and practicing.  This is a really crazy game, and I'm just the man for the job!  Half the time I wonder what I'm even doing trying!

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by parmark

[JohnnyCashForever]

On 7/12/2021 at 11:14 PM, parmark said:

This is very timely from where I sit.  Just coming back from a stint on the DL - including a week in the Hospital last month with some bug they never could nail down - but the game's been a struggle all year.  Shanks and horrific pushes.  Just couldn't figure it out. 

 

Had one of those Tin Cup moments.  July 4 weekend, and after being out for a month or so, I come up with the idea let's play 4 rounds over Holiday weekend. Never mind have lost distance to some degree and haven't played for a month or so.

 

On the range on Friday, first round - and out of nowhere, Mr. Hosel rocket appears.  Just sucks.  I'm freaking out, almost ready to just go home.  But got thru the round, mainly playing defensive swing, and not causing any bodily harm.  But was not looking forward to the rest of the weekend's rounds. 

 

So following day Saturday round same old same old hitting it all over, and we come to a  Par 3 175 or so.  I'm a short knocker anyways and have lost some distance after being out a few weeks - so   it's a 4 hybrid for me.  Hit a god awful line drive to right field smack dab in the middle of the water surrounding the hole, arms flailing like I do at times.  Just horrible.

 

Playing partner, bless his soul,  who is a very good and smart player, you guys know him as Precision here  - Will mentions to me - your hips really fired out on that shot.  In other words EE. Talk about a light bulb moment.  The sky's opened and I literally had a real clue what I was doing.  @MonteScheinblum after all his suggestions and "encouragement" ie colorful adjectives would have been proud!

 

Played twice more that weekend and twice this past weekend  - it's a whole new ballgame! I actually have a clue and a chance. I thought my issues was lack of shoulder turn, never really keyed on the hips, or had a clue how to turn properly.  Turning the right hip back - I mean really turning back (along with the shoulders and using body/core), feel is it moves over my Left heel  - and then making a real effort to rotate and push Left hip behind me coming down per an AMG video.  Absolute best ball striking rounds this past weekend. Was grinning as I was overshooting greens with lesser clubs that I would normally be short with.  It's amazing how the right fundamentals can lead to a bit of confidence to allow  you to really hit the ball. Nothing worse than being tentative and swing thought is "please don't eff this up!".

 

First time in my life I was glad to hit a ball in the water and caught the eye of my partner! And am enjoying the pain I feel in my hip after playing and practicing.  This is a really crazy game, and I'm just the man for the job!  Half the time I wonder what I'm even doing trying!

 

It is amazing when the lightbulb turns on.  I can only hope this continues for you.

 

Regarding hip turn, especially on the downswing, here's a method that caught my eye.  Not saying it's right for you, but I never really thought of it this way.  It turned out to be an eye opener for me.  Still is.   

 

Best ROTATION DRILL for your Backswing and Downswing - It's super SIMPLE! - YouTube

 

Danny talks a mile a minute, and it is hard to understand him all the way through, but the concept is simple.  I remember it as "straight line rotation", which is an oxymoron, but easy to remember.  My feel is that the hips are not rotating or turning, but moving, as he says, "straight back and straight through."  I've never really heard it explained that way before.  Greg Norman has a similar drill, where he says his hips are pistons, but Danny's explanation is clearer, and he does a better job of explaining why it works and what can go wrong.

 

For me, the benefit of this motion is a more centered swing with less hip slide.  Staying centered, in turn, creates better contact.    

 

In my swing, I see the benefit of this motion more so in the downswing, where if I do it right, the hips help create efficient power.  So for me, it's Monte's 3 backs on the backswing, and Danny's straight line rotation on the downswing.  Both teachers do a great job of explaining the "why" of their tips.  

 

[JohnnyCashForever]

On 7/12/2021 at 5:42 PM, BTP said:

The only thing I feel like I am consciously doing is setting the wrists sooner and in transition FEELING like I am initiating the downswing by hinging the left wrist downward i.e. ulnar deviation as a RH golfer.

Thank you!  I've heard Monte describing this move as "casting" to 8 o'clock to start the downswing at the 14:40 mark in this video:

 

No-Turn Cast - Monte Scheinblum - YouTube

 

TBH, I've not had the guts to implement this.  Sounds simple, but I need to understand it better...

 

[JohnnyCashForever]

On 7/12/2021 at 1:56 PM, JohnnyCashForever said:

Thanks!

 

Regarding putting, I'm doing something similar.  I've been playing around the world on the practice green.  We usually have 6 or 7 flags on it.  I putt from flag to flag and try to 2-putt each along the way.  If I 3-putt, I start back on the original flag.  The first time I did it, it took me 45 minutes to complete the loop without 3-putting.  In my defense, I put a new grip on my putter and am trying a new style (ala Nicklaus), but still sad.

 

You would think I'd get bumped off this game by other golfers who share the green, but it rarely happens.  Hardly anyone practices putting, and I'm usually alone out there.

 

Putting update:

 

Reading a lot of books from Tom Watson, Ray Floyd, Jack Nicklaus.  Watching a lot of videos from Mr. Short Game, Jackie Burke Jr., Ben Crenshaw, Brad Faxon, and Dave Stockton.  Lots of good drills and so forth, but after a lot of dedicated practice, I'm beginning to believe that putting is feel and developing trust in your own abilities. 

 

For now, I've reduced putting to three concepts, mostly stolen from Ray Floyd's book From 60 yards in.

1. Look at the hole: Spend more time looking at the hole while over the ball at address and visualize the break and speed needed for the putt, all the while swinging the putter the correct-length stroke.  This and remembering the result subconsciously stores all of this information for a similar putt in the future. 
2. Aim the putter face and then adjust your body to get comfortable over the putt: If that means using a Nicklaus stance, or a Crenshaw stance, or a Bobby Locke closed stance, or something else, then so be it.  It may even be different from putt to putt, but the goal is to get into a comfortable stance over the ball after pointing the putter face in the right direction.
3. On breaking putts, experiment with gear effect: Strike the ball on the heel or nearer the heel for left to right putts.  Strike the ball on the toe or nearer the toe for right to left putts.  The amount of heel or toe strike is a question of feel which is developed from practice.  I know this concept is controversial, but it does seem to help get the putt started on the right line and keep it tracking true.  Equipment: I'm using a Wilson 8813 putter with a Winn AVS standard-sized grip.     

These concepts may change as I study and practice putting more.  And someone else will have a totally different set of concepts.  But this is my early attempt at formalizing something that is not easily formalized.  Ironically, unless you're Bryson, the primary lesson appears to be that good putting is more art and feel than science and mechanics.

 

 

  

[parmark]

8 hours ago, JohnnyCashForever said:

It is amazing when the lightbulb turns on.  I can only hope this continues for you.

 

Regarding hip turn, especially on the downswing, here's a method that caught my eye.  Not saying it's right for you, but I never really thought of it this way.  It turned out to be an eye opener for me.  Still is.   

 

Best ROTATION DRILL for your Backswing and Downswing - It's super SIMPLE! - YouTube

 

Danny talks a mile a minute, and it is hard to understand him all the way through, but the concept is simple.  I remember it as "straight line rotation", which is an oxymoron, but easy to remember.  My feel is that the hips are not rotating or turning, but moving, as he says, "straight back and straight through."  I've never really heard it explained that way before.  Greg Norman has a similar drill, where he says his hips are pistons, but Danny's explanation is clearer, and he does a better job of explaining why it works and what can go wrong.

 

For me, the benefit of this motion is a more centered swing with less hip slide.  Staying centered, in turn, creates better contact.    

 

In my swing, I see the benefit of this motion more so in the downswing, where if I do it right, the hips help create efficient power.  So for me, it's Monte's 3 backs on the backswing, and Danny's straight line rotation on the downswing.  Both teachers do a great job of explaining the "why" of their tips.  

 

Thanks, but yes Danny is a bit too excitable and can be hard to take in large doses. 

A real game changer the day - Saturday -  I came back from being told about the EE swings - was finding this video from the AMG guys.  How the backswing is what sets up the correct path for the downswing. I was doing the rocking back on heels starting back that was causing hips to fire out as they mention here.  The one key Mike talks about is how lifting that left heel and turning back on the BALL of the left foot (hey I"m 66 in two weeks, I'm allowed)  to start backswing, has changed the whole ballgame for me. Able to get those hips  and shoulders turned back, the rest seems to fall into place in the downswing.  It's a blast .  Last two nights just hitting wedges in the back yard, sent Monte a note last night, two full buckets, not one lateral shot. If you knew how much of an issue that has been for me past few years, it's really remarkable how well this is working. So far!

 

 

[parmark]

On 7/8/2021 at 2:38 PM, JohnnyCashForever said:

I was on the verge of losing faith in the game, until I found Monte's False Turn tip, "Try to get the right shoulder closer to the back foot in the backswing," which I remember as the "3 backs", back shoulder over back foot on backswing.  

 

False Turn: Losing Tilt or Tilting Towards the Target in the Backswing (rebelliongolf.com)

 

Unlike other tips, this one is very robust and seems foundational for me.  That is, everything seems to depend on it.  No matter how I try to stress test it, it always seems to work.  Knock on wood.  Before I was afraid to swing hard, but (for now) it seems like if I remember the "3 backs" at address, I can swing as hard as I want.  I did add one extra thought with the tip, "Try to keep that back shoulder over the back foot as long as possible on the start of the downswing."  Monte's tip saved my game.  For the first time in a long time, I'm actually enjoying the game instead of worrying about swing thoughts.  

 

Is there one tip that you consider most important over all others?

 

  

Also a huge tip of the hat for finding this gem and posting it here.  Have found this really beneficial along with my newfound hip turn in backswing - they seem to go together very well.  Thanks.

 

It's funny how some things stand the test of time and are still relevant.

[Follow The Sun]

Work and work harder on keeping your head still ...

 

Good Golfing

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Follow The Sun