I have never ever seen this before. What is the correct ruling For a putt that has actually went inside the cup. And bounced back out.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

Played a 2 man best ball scramble today at Mountain Dell golf course for some money. The craziest thing happened twice on 2 different holes. Both holes are par 5’s. And I’m putting for eagle both putts were within 15ft estimate. The ball goes into the cup at perfect pace both times. And it bounces back out both times.  Come to find out. The metal piece on the end of the flagstick was still inside the cup when both my putts came out. The other 2 some tells me tough luck. It’s a birdie and not eagle cause the ball didn’t come to rest inside the cup both times. Because I didn’t get eagle on at least 1 of the holes. I lost out on money. We are still arguing about it now. What is the correct ruling?

[rogolf]

Neither ball was holed (see definition of "holed" in the Rule book..  Nice birdies though.

Holed

When a ball is at rest in the hole after a stroke and the entire ball is below the surface of the putting green.

When the Rules refer to “holing out ” or “hole out,” it means when the player’s ball is holed.

For the special case of a ball resting against the flagstick in the hole, see Rule 13.2c (ball is treated as holed if any part of the ball is below the surface of the putting green).

Holed/2 – Ball Is Considered Holed Even Though It Is Not “At Rest”

The words “at rest” in the definition of holed are used to make it clear that if a ball falls into the hole and bounces out, it is not holed.

However, if a player removes a ball from the hole that is still moving (such as circling or bouncing in the bottom of the hole), it is considered holed despite the ball not having come to rest in the hole.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

34 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Neither ball was holed (see definition of "holed" in the Rule book..  Nice birdies though.

Holed

When a ball is at rest in the hole after a stroke and the entire ball is below the surface of the putting green.

When the Rules refer to “holing out ” or “hole out,” it means when the player’s ball is holed.

For the special case of a ball resting against the flagstick in the hole, see Rule 13.2c (ball is treated as holed if any part of the ball is below the surface of the putting green).

Holed/2 – Ball Is Considered Holed Even Though It Is Not “At Rest”

The words “at rest” in the definition of holed are used to make it clear that if a ball falls into the hole and bounces out, it is not holed.

However, if a player removes a ball from the hole that is still moving (such as circling or bouncing in the bottom of the hole), it is considered holed despite the ball not having come to rest in the hole.

Dammit, I was hoping for a special ruling given the piece of the flagstick was still stuck inside the cup. Just terrible luck. 

[bekgolf]

14 hours ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

Dammit, I was hoping for a special ruling given the piece of the flagstick was still stuck inside the cup. Just terrible luck. 

 

I'd be a little upset at whoever removed the flagstick and didn't notice (or did and kept quiet) part of it was in the cup.  Was it the same player both times? 

[mark m]

Agree. It would only take once for me.

 

I’ve never heard of a two piece flagstick. Or was this a COVID related insert in the cup?

[jdl]

At least you weren't at Q school trying to get your tour card.
 

 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

8 hours ago, bekgolf said:

 

I'd be a little upset at whoever removed the flagstick and didn't notice (or did and kept quiet) part of it was in the cup.  Was it the same player both times? 

Yes it was. 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

8 hours ago, mark m said:

Agree. It would only take once for me.

 

I’ve never heard of a two piece flagstick. Or was this a COVID related insert in the cup?

It was the metal piece on the end of the flag stick. That was the pice still inside the center of the cup. 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

7 hours ago, jdl said:

At least you weren't at Q school trying to get your tour card.
 

 

Perfect example of what happened to me. 

[dvq9654]

Taking this away from the rules for a second - how could this happen twice in one round? What are the odds of that? I have personally never seen this happen and have played thousands of rounds of golf, which leads me to believe the odds are incredibly low. There are three explanations in my mind:

 

1) Crazy odds. Buy a lotto ticket ASAP

2) Some issue with how the course is maintaining the flag sticks 

3) Your opponent is a diabolical genius and somehow did this on purpose 

 

2 and 3 seem most likely. If there is any chance 3 seems possible to you, don't play them for money any more... 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

12 hours ago, dvq9654 said:

Taking this away from the rules for a second - how could this happen twice in one round? What are the odds of that? I have personally never seen this happen and have played thousands of rounds of golf, which leads me to believe the odds are incredibly low. There are three explanations in my mind:

 

1) Crazy odds. Buy a lotto ticket ASAP

2) Some issue with how the course is maintaining the flag sticks 

3) Your opponent is a diabolical genius and somehow did this on purpose 

 

2 and 3 seem most likely. If there is any chance 3 seems possible to you, don't play them for money any more... 

I can’t prove #3. And it’s not worth the headache. I’ll leave it at #2. And contacted them immediately it happened. And they were just as surprised as I was. 

[MtlJeff]

I've seen this happen twice to playing partners. Once in a tournament , which sucked for that guy.

 

One time it was an improperly cut edge so the ball didn't go into the hole completely, it fell against the back side wall and bounce back out

 

The other time it died into the hole so perfectly it bounced off the bottom right back out

[raindawg1]

On 9/7/2021 at 10:13 AM, jdl said:

At least you weren't at Q school trying to get your tour card.
 

 

 

The sad thing is he missed his tour card by 1 stroke. It's recapped in the book "Tales from Q-School" by John Feinstein.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

17 hours ago, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

It was the metal piece on the end of the flag stick. That was the pice still inside the center of the cup. 

So the flagstick was fully inserted into the hole for it? We have the exact same flagstick “adapters” and I’ve witnessed just one putt hopping back out after being below surface level, but I’d say remove the stick and chances are better the ball stays in the hole. 
Or are you saying it would have happened with the flag out as well?

[CaseyC]

another data point for leaving the flag in?   😉

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, CaseyC said:

another data point for leaving the flag in?   😉

I agreed with that , until.  Last two saturdays I’ve had birdie putts rejected by the pin in each of those two rounds.  And I know what you’re thinking.  Neither were going very fast.  Both were longer putts. I suspect leaning pins ?  But didn’t inspect to see before hand.  So I’m a little gun shy now. 

[Augster]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

I agreed with that , until.  Last two saturdays I’ve had birdie putts rejected by the pin in each of those two rounds.  And I know what you’re thinking.  Neither were going very fast.  Both were longer putts. I suspect leaning pins ?  But didn’t inspect to see before hand.  So I’m a little gun shy now. 

I saw this regularly at the beginning of Covid last year. I had 13 putts knocked out by the pin and none of them were going fast. 
 

When the putt breaks even a little, it creates a low side and a high side. You can catch the pin in the middle, and have it deflect to the low side and spin out. A putt that would be center cut dropped without a pin. 
 

Covid restrictions on pins were lifted in May of 2020 around here.  I pull the pin nearly always now and haven’t had any of my putts deflected out by the pin. I have seen MANY deflected out by others that still leave it in. 
 

I saw a nearly center cut 5 footer deflect off the edge of the pin last week. It grazed it just enough to barely deflect it to the low edge and out. I told my pal he should have taken it out. He insisted it didn’t touch the pin. I was RIGHT THERE and crouched and saw the deflection. He thought he just missed it low. It was in without the pin for sure. 
 

If I leave a pin in now, mostly due to laziness and % make being very low, I always try to die it in. A deflected out putt, after so many last year, would drive me irate and I’d likely leave the course before I did something dumb. 

[clinkinfo]

On 9/8/2021 at 8:20 PM, bladehunter said:

I agreed with that , until.  Last two saturdays I’ve had birdie putts rejected by the pin in each of those two rounds.  And I know what you’re thinking.  Neither were going very fast.  Both were longer putts. I suspect leaning pins ?  But didn’t inspect to see before hand.  So I’m a little gun shy now. 

me too!  Used to leave it in all the time but now I’ve seen multiple times my ball bounce off the stck/adapter and come out.  I’m with you, I’ve stared taking it back out again

[larrybud]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:54 PM, I'_rather_be_golfing said:

It was the metal piece on the end of the flag stick. That was the pice still inside the center of the cup. 

 

So not only they have crap cups, they have an illegal plastic liner going to the surface of the green.

 

Where is this horrible course, so I can make sure never to play there?